State of Massachusetts denied credit today (the other shoe is dropping)

[scheming daemons]

But we're just "chicken littles"


Crossposted from GD: P

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7256498&mesg_id=7256498

[marmar]

1. What "show" would that be?

The Mind-Numbing Posting of Strident Posts Hour

[RainDog]

4. did the OP edit out part of the post that is your reply?

I wonder why this person doesn't spend the same amt of energy calling investment banks and Paulson and Bush and tell them no intervention will go forward that rewards crooks.

instead, anyone who expects a more realistic option is somehow going to be blamed for all.

I think the op is an operative. it's interesting to see it at work.

[ProfessorGAC]

5. The Original Post Said "Show" Rather Than "Shoe"

Just a typo that's been corrected.
The Professor

[ProfessorGAC]

2. Bettter Do Some Research

The firms denying the credit are flush with liquidity, but they want the bailout to mitigate their own risk in all this. So, they're exacerbating the situation by tightening money to force the gov't to act quickly.

GE Capital, BoA, and others are all doing this. They created the mess. Found themselves with liabilities they didn't understand, want the gov't to fix it, and are now creating a faux grass roots movement by pressuring others.

Don't take all of these events at face value. The liquidity is there. Check the websites of the biggest insurers, investment banks, and cap companies.
The Professor

[AllieB]

3. That's good to know. Thanks.

I was wondering if this 'credit drying up' so quickly was a ploy by the big lenders.

[RainDog]

6. thank you.

and credit unions and local banks are continuing to loan to small businesses.

I hope you will keep up with all the fear-mongering posts from the op as much as possible here. I'm so sick of the bullshit.

[ProfessorGAC]

8. This Is Actually Being Seen By The Credit Unions.. .

. . .as an opportunity to get more into business loans, since they have a different structure of capital/asset and liquidity. And guess what: It's because REGULATIONS REQUIRE IT! Well, well, well. Regulations now have created a situation where an entire arm of the financial industry is in better position to ride in for some liquid cash for small business. But, regulation is bad! And don't you forget it!
GAC

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

10. Several things...

Per your response to my question in the other thread (and thanks for that) this story in the OP is the sort of thing that raises my eyebrows. There doesn't seem to be any question that MA would be good for this debt, so denying it doesn't make a lot of sense.

However...

The liquidity is there. Check the websites of the biggest insurers, investment banks, and cap companies.

I'm pretty certain that if you'd done that with Lehman a few months ago you'd assume that everything was fine, and now they're gone. If the banks themselves don't even understand their liabilities, how meaningful are those figures asserting the liquidity of the institution? My understanding was that this was part of the problem - the institutions don't even understand their own liabilities, let alone those of the other institutions.

[ProfessorGAC]

11. I Actually Doubt

Cash flow problems are very hard to hide. Why do you think Warren Buffet says that his most important financial indicator before he invests is cash flow? It's a hard problem to hide. Even Enron couldn't hide them. The problem was evetyone ignored their problem, just like Lehman. Notice that he didn't lose any money on Enron, and we didn't hear anything about him losing money on Lehman.

In fact, i think it's likely, though i don't know for sure, that Lehman's cash flow statements and liquidity positions were very strong a year ago. Big companies just can't go bust that fast! (Or so goes the theory.)

GAC

[ThomWV]

7. This is just the beginning

[Sam Ervin jret]

9. Now would be a good time for real "patriotism" or "good moral behavior" so often spoken of and so

rarely witnessed.

But I expect more profiteering about the market just as there was and is profiteering about the war.

We need a shame meter for our companies. So people can compare and contrast. List it right on the advertisement or packages with the calories.