Reporter on MSNBC: This is no longer a "bailout". It is now an

[Subdivisions]

"economic recovery plan" because the word "bailout" sends the wrong message.

Admittedly changing the languange right before our very eyes and without shame.

Edited: The reporter was Mke Viquera.

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. They are late to that party

the bill has been titled that way for over a week now

Shows to me they have not read the bill either... like most of congress and the murican people

[Tallison]

7. It was a misnomer from the getgo

which is a big part of its political unpopularity. Rachel Maddow asked a former econ advisor of HRC (now a Berkeley prof) if a big part of its failure was actually a "failure to educate the public about its objectives."

ETA: It's dismaying to me that so few posters here, as members of an activism website, have taken the time to educate themselves about the nature credit crises and their implications to the average Joe. Here I thought the RW cornered the market on simplistic thinking. It's depressing to be wrong on that latter count.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. The AMERICAN people are willfully ignorant

it is not a right, or left issue

In fact, this place sounds more like Free Republic than they want to realize

Realize that people were this against early depression era bills as well for the same damn reason

[girl gone mad]

12. I think I have a solid understanding of the issue.

TARP was a bad bill.

There are better solutions than throwing hundreds of billions of good dollars after bad and they could be implemented immediately.

[Tallison]

18. This is a really complex issue, and I understand the apprehension

What is your solution?

[girl gone mad]

21. In the short term..

I'd advocate legislation that required any securities directly or indirectly tied to home mortgages (including but not limited to MBS, CDS, CDO, CLO, EIEIO, etc.) to be fully disclosed to the public immediately.

We can pass more comprehensive regulation later, but we can write a simple bill demanding immediate and complete disclosure, available to all on the internet.

The result would be an army of free labor analyzing some of those securities and hopefully we could very quickly sort out the winners from the losers and the solvent from the insolvent and trust would be restored.

This could be in addition for debt-for-equity swaps and aid to homeowners facing foreclosure.

I just don't believe that the 700 Billion alone will go very far toward shoring up the 60 Trillion dollar CDS market.

[Tallison]

24. Do you realize the time it would take to sort the good from the bad assets?

Not to mention reach authoritative consensus on such decentralized analysis?

That's hardly a short-term solution in an environment in which there's no credit liquidity.

How would aiding homeowners solve a credit freeze? And how do debt-for-equity swaps figure into a short-term solution?

[girl gone mad]

26. It could be done very rapidly.

There are literally thousands of people who would eagerly go through these looking for profit (short and long). Put disclosures on the internet and mark to market consensus could quickly be met.

On debt-for-equity:

"As during the Great Depression and in many debt restructurings, it makes sense in the
current contingency to mandate a partial debt forgiveness or a debt-for-equity swap in the
financial sector. It has the benefit of being a well-tested strategy in the private sector and
it leaves the taxpayers out of the picture. But if it is so simple, why no expert has
mentioned it?

The major players in the financial sector do not like it. It is much more appealing for the
financial industry to be bailed out at taxpayers’ expense than to bear their share of pain.
Forcing a debt-for-equity swap or a debt forgiveness would be no greater a violation of
private property rights than a massive bailout, but it faces much stronger political
opposition. The appeal of the Paulson solution is that it taxes the many and benefits the
few. Since the many (we, the taxpayers) are dispersed, we cannot put up a good fight in
Capitol Hill; while the financial industry is well represented at all the levels. It is enough
to say that for 6 of the last 13 years, the Secretary of Treasury was a Goldman Sachs
alumnus. But, as financial experts, this silence is also our responsibility. Just as it is
difficult to find a doctor willing to testify against another doctor in a malpractice suit, no
matter how egregious the case, finance experts in both political parties are too friendly to
the industry they study and work in."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=114&topic_id=44442&mesg_id=44442

Aiding homeowners is a better long-term use of the 700B.

[Tallison]

28. But this isn't short-term and certainly doesn't liquidate credit?

"As during the Great Depression and in many debt restructurings, it makes sense in the
current contingency to mandate a partial debt forgiveness or a debt-for-equity swap in the
financial sector.

:shrug:

[martymar64]

31. Nationalize the banks

and send the CEO's and other bank officers straight to prison for what they've done to us.

[Odin2005]

17. The last few days on DU proved to me that emotion trumps reason every time for most people.

This irrationality is disturbing.

[Tallison]

19. I understand that the complexity has overwhelmed folks' comprehension

in which case the right response is to educate themselves.

That some are stuck on some ideological interpretation of events, here and everywhere, is a big part of why Congress balked yesterday, for fear of (ignorant) constituent backlash.

I agree how dismaying it is.

[girl gone mad]

23. Please stop calling opponents of the bill "ignorant".

We are not ignorant. I've been following the credit bubble for years.

TARP was a bad bill.

[Tallison]

25. Then you should understand it better nt

[girl gone mad]

27. I understand it very well.

Thanks for your concern.

[martymar64]

34. Tell us then . . .

Suppose the bailout goes through. The Fed starts printing out money like crazy. The value of the dollar plummets to peso levels and hyperinflation kicks in.
Now tell me, how will you then help those of us with low-wage jobs that can longer afford housing or food because our meager paycheck will no longer even come close to covering basic necessities for survival.

Do you suggest that we should just suck it up and watch ourselves and our children starve to death?
Will you console us with the thought that at least the credit market is OK?
Go on and tell us, we're all ears.

[MadHound]

22. I just love that meme

If we weren't for the bailout, we're uneducated and suffering from simplistic thinking. OK Bub, tell me, do you understand what the implications of this bailout(and yes, it is a bailout) are for the ratings of our US Treasury Bonds? And how those implications would effect our economy, government and country? Oh, while you're at it, please explain the impact this bailout package will have on inflation? We'll be waiting.

There are many good solid reasons for people to oppose this bailout, so please don't imply that those of us who've followed this reasoning are somehow stupid or ignorant. I'm more than willing to stack my IQ, experience and education level up against yours any day, and twice on Sundays. The majority of people found that this bailout plan was a bad deal, we rejected it and want a better deal. That's the way democracy works, ain't it grand.

[muriel_volestrangler]

29. If you're told that the bill has to pass urgently, or there will be a disaster, then it's a bailout

It's fairly simple. Bailing out is something you do when you're taking on water that, if left to itself, will sink you. A 'recovery plan' could have waited for the new Congress and President.

[sendero]

33. Yeah.

.... DARN that stupid American public for not wanting to pour money down the same rathole forever.

If they were only SMART ENOUGH to see that this is the best way, after all Bush and his cronies think so, and the entire corporate media thinks so, DRAT THOSE DAMN UNINFORMED AMERICANS.

[Critters2]

2. Their job is to get the money into the hands of the corporations.

So, whatever it takes...

[EFerrari]

3. The White House got lazy and forgot to lie to us in the first place. n/t

[dkofos]

4. More lipstick for the PIG

[JuniperLea]

32. different shade... eom

[JaneQPublic]

5. Let's call it an "Extreme Makeover" for Wall Street!!! (nt)

[brentspeak]

6. MSNBC/CNBC is a Wall St. tool (Olbermann notwithstanding)

[BuyingThyme]

8. It was a "rescue" plan for a few hours there.

[OwnedByFerrets]

9. I am hearing that verbage from everyone, including the voices on the

left. Its not a bailout now, its a rescue.:puke: :puke:

[radfringe]

11. :rofl: talk about LIPSTICK ON A PIG!!!!! :rofl: n/t

[SoCalDem]

13. republicans love their word games, don't they?

They used to be quite sly about it, but they are bold as brass these days.

[mzmolly]

14. Good.

The bailout was the original 3 page give me money without oversight request. We did not accept that proposal.

[seemslikeadream]

15. yep

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4133910&mesg_id=4133910

[Liberal In Texas]

16. Can't they shoehorn in "reform" and "patriot" while they're at it?

It should be called "The Rich Guy Welfare Act of Desperation of 2008." Maybe name it after Herbert Hoover, who did the same thing and still caused the Great Depression.

[fla nocount]

20. I like it, The Economic Hoover Bill,

A chicken in every tent.

[martymar64]

30. You polish a turd, it's still a turd