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Will we see an end to the "war on Marijuana" when we're in control?

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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:40 AM
Original message
Will we see an end to the "war on Marijuana" when we're in control?
I am wondering if this silly war on marijuana will end when we regain control in 2008? It is such a crock, the more I investigate why it ever started the more astounded I am. Can we afford to fill up our prisons with non-violent marijuana offenders? Is it fair to destroy peoples lives because they choose to enjoy marijuana?
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
1. no
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
2. Have any of the serious candidates for President said that they would?
:shrug:
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Kucinich -- he's at least 60% serious, i think
i'm thinking the way to get this issue to have legs is to form alliances with differenct professional orgs -- law associations to argue the point the war on pot fills prisons with non-criminals. medical associations to argue that pot is a medicine with a 5000-year history.

what we need is decriminalization. we don't need to argue for "legalization" yet (as if pot would be sold in 7-11s). there are a few decrim models used in states and canada.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I asked about 'serious' candidates
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. here's Kucinich on decriminalization
http://kucinich.us/issues/marijuana_decrim.php


Marijuana Decriminalization


With the enactment of the Volstead Act in 1919, America embarked on a social experiment known as Prohibition. Prohibitionists rejected the idea that people could be trusted to drink in moderation, arguing that alcohol use inevitably led to moral corruption and undesirable behavior. Accepting these premises led Congress to conclude that a federal ban on the production and sale of alcohol would go a long way toward reducing crime and addressing a variety of other social problems. Within a decade, however, Americans discovered that the criminally enforced prohibition of alcohol produced harmful side effects. The rise of black markets empowered organized crime to an unprecedented degree. In some of America's largest cities, local governments had been heavily corrupted by the influence of organized crime. The black market provided minors with easy access to bootlegged alcohol, which was frequently of poor quality and unsafe to drink. Faced with the disastrous consequences of Prohibition, Congress decided in 1933 to repeal the Volstead Act. Since that time, the government has implemented the much more successful policy of focusing law enforcement efforts on irresponsible alcohol users who endanger the rights of others.

Unfortunately, current drug policy fails to take into account the lessons of Prohibition. The law regards all users as abusers, and the result has been the creation of an unnecessary class of lawbreakers. According to the FBI's Uniform Crime Report, more than 734,000 individuals were arrested on marijuana charges in 2000. This number far exceeds the total number of arrestees for all violent crimes combined, including murder, rape, robbery, and aggravated assault. Eighty-eight percent of those arrested were charged with possession only. Convicted marijuana offenders are denied federal financial student aid, welfare, and food stamps, and may be removed from public housing. In many cases, those convicted are automatically stripped of their driving privileges, even if the offense is not driving related. In several states, marijuana offenders may receive maximum sentences of life in prison. The cost to the taxpayer of enforcing marijuana prohibition is staggering -- over $10 billion annually.

The harsh nature of punishments for marijuana offenses is even more disturbing if one considers the racial bias of the war on drugs. According to data collected by the National Household Survey, on an annual basis the overall difference between drug use by blacks and whites is quite narrow. However, a recent national study found that African Americans are arrested for marijuana offenses at higher rates than whites in 90% of 700 U.S. counties investigated. In 64% of these counties, the African American arrest rate for marijuana violations was more than twice the arrest rate for whites. Questions of racial bias affect the integrity of investigations, arrests, and prosecutorial discretion. If we truly aspire to the ideal of "Justice for All," then these unjust racial disparities are unacceptable outcomes for the American justice system.

The rationale for continuing this draconian policy of marijuana prohibition is unclear. Statistical evidence shows that marijuana use follows a pattern very similar to that of alcohol. Most marijuana users do so responsibly, in a safe, recreational context. These people lead normal, productive lives -- pursuing careers, raising families, and participating in civic life. In addition, marijuana has proven benefits in the treatment of numerous diseases, such as providing a valuable means of pain management for terminally ill patients. In either of these contexts, there is no rational justification for criminally enforced prohibitions. These unnecessary arrests and incarcerations serve only to crowd prisons, backlog the judicial system, and distract law enforcement officials from pursuing terrorists and other violent criminals.

New Mexico's 2001 state-commissioned Drug Policy Advisory Group determined that marijuana decriminalization "will result in greater availability of resources to respond to more serious crimes without any increased risks to public safety." This finding is backed by the successful implementation of such policies in twelve states. The state governments of Alaska, California, Colorado, Maine, Minnesota, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, and Oregon approved these measures after the National Commission on Marijuana and Drug Abuse recommended that Congress adopt a national policy of marijuana decriminalization. A recent CNN/Time magazine poll indicates overwhelming public support for this approach, with 72% of Americans favoring fines as a maximum penalty for minor marijuana offenses, and 80% approving of marijuana used for medical purposes.

As a nation, we must work to implement a drug policy that removes responsible recreational users and medical users of marijuana from the criminal justice system, in order to redirect resources toward the following goals:

* Enforce penalties for those who provide marijuana to minors.
* Enforce penalties for those who endanger the rights of others through irresponsible use, such as driving under the influence.
* Develop drug treatment programs focused on rehabilitation, rather than incarceration.
* Support the efforts of state governments in developing innovative approaches to drug policy.
* Improve drug education by emphasizing science over scare tactics.
* Implement a Department of Justice program that would review the records of, and consider for sentence reduction or release, inmates convicted for nonviolent marijuana offenses.

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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. I asked about 'serious' candidates
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #21
24. the political game isn't just about who wins the candidacy, and Kucinich knows this
it's about which issues get talked about and which issues are fought for amongst the candidates -- so -- if you care about marijuana decriminalization, make a big noise about Kucinich in the primaries and let everyone know WHY. that's how issues get on the platform.
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #24
31. But if Kucinich is the only candidate advocating this, and
he loses as badly as he did last time, won't that just reinforce the view that this issue is a bad on for candidates?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. it's more complicated than that...
there's "competition" in the "marketplace of ideas." for instance, Al Sharpton wasn't running to win -- he was running to make sure issues of race were COMPETED FOR. people contributed to his campaign to have a voice.

left to their own devices, a bunch of centrist (DLC?) candidates will fight over who is the most Republican-lite. with progressive Dems and lefty Dems in the race, the ideological territory fought over is farther to the left.

politicians will often act to "take issues off the table" in order to undermine their opponents. so, the point is to GET THE ISSUE ON THE TABLE -- so the politico with the most to lose IS FORCED to TAKE IT OFF.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
3. No.
The alcohol and pharmaceutical lobbies will fight it tooth and nail.
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
11. You can count on that.
Private prison operators will lobby. I am sure the various police departments will also worry about not being able to confiscate peoples property. Its too bad lawmakers put lobbyists above the people and what is right.
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texastoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. Not to mention several other industries
Cotton farmers, GMO corn growers for ethanol, the oil and gas business because hemp oil can replace diesel, timber barons and other building material industries.

Gosh, sweet reef can cure lots of ills--medically, industrially, and (for those who don't understand why 180 proof Everclear is legal and pot is not) recreationally.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. Absolutely....
there are so many industries who would suffer if marijuana were legalized. Paper mills are another. Not to mention the Drug Enforcement Administration and all of the other federal agencies who justify their existence primarily through marijuana busts.

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Orrex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
4. The war won't end until this dangerous drug is eradicated
:sarcasm:

I almost sounded serious there for a minute, didn't I?

Anyway, the war won't end as long as it continues to be a club with which candidates can bludgeon their opponents who might not oppose it strongly enough. After all, don't they realize that this drug destroys families? Don't they care about the American people? What about the children?

Sorry to be flippant, but this idiotic and expensive diversion carries far too much high-value political baggage for it to be abandoned by either party in the foreseeable future.
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unpossibles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
5. I wish, but I doubt it
even though the public themselves are pretty open about the idea.

I'm reading Schlosser's Reefer Madness and let me tell you, everyone should read the book. It'll really piss you off.
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PDJane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. Marijuana is also a respected and
long-used medicine for pain and nausea and sleeplessness. Neurological pain responds better to marijuana than to anything else.

The US is one of the very few places where a dying woman can be denied marijuana due to federal laws.

You will take a child from his/her parent because the parent won't medicate with Ritalin or Prozac, but won't let a dying woman use marijuana.

WTF??

I don't get it..............truly.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:44 AM
Response to Original message
7. Didn't you know that prison is not a civil rights violation, but denying marriage rights is?
There's no comparison!

:sarcasm:
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
8. No. Remember Bill Clinton made Barry McCafree our fucking drug czar when he was prez.
They won't touch the marijuana issue with a ten-foot pole. Sadly
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #8
25. DLC candidates won't touch it, but not all Dems are DLC
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nebenaube Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
9. Someone is going to have to gather
all the research literature in the world and sue the goverment.
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:48 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. Actually what we need is a marijuana
lobby. Unfortunately marijuana supporters don't have the money that the alcohol, pharmaceutical and tobacco companies do. If marijuana supporters could put together a large group of investors with a business model and hire lobbyists they would have a chance.

Marijuana being illegal is not now nor has it ever been about the drug being dangerous. That's nothing but smoke and mirrors.

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Lost4words Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
10. We the people will never have control!
The democrats are no more on the side of the working classes in this country than the pukes are.
And if you think big changes are ahead, take it from someone who has been watching the deterioration of our nation for years, no major changes are scheduled. The corporations rule.

8643

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Mrspeeker Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #10
15. yeap
You are correct!
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:47 AM
Response to Original message
12. Doubt it.
However, if someone with a conscience decides to do it, they'd do it midterm. They wouldn't run a campaign on it.
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:50 AM
Response to Original message
13. No that's like an attack on organized religion
Edited on Thu Mar-15-07 11:58 AM by kenny blankenship
The Drug War is essential to the American class system as it keeps the War on Crime running at full tilt and is used to blanket over the poor with the label of "criminal element". It has been a fixture in our society separating 'us' from 'them' and maintaining levels of paranoia about the "threat within" for a little more than a century now. I don't know what could replace it.

The next Democratic President wouldn't challenge the Drug War, you can rely on that, because although he or she may be a Democrat, they won't dare to go beyond now and then regretting certain effects of the class system, to actually challenging it and trying to throw a wrench into its mechanisms with policy reforms.
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Mrspeeker Donating Member (671 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:52 AM
Response to Original message
14. Question is-> when will we ever be in control?
Ahh yeah the illusion of we the people, and it is just that and illusion

Welcome to the Matrix my friend!
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Lets see, an illegal war which is lost, economy in the crapper....
Oh, Rudy Gulliani is the "front runner" for the rethugs. I like the odds.
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Tsiyu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:12 PM
Response to Original message
18. Yes, but only when we age a bit more


The older I get, the less I care about 'playing it safe' just to avoid offending someone. There are so many pot smokers in this nation, it is absurd that it is still an illegal substance.

As we age, more and more of us will say, "enough of the crap." It will help when we get nice photographic evidence of "leaders' toking up.

The War Against SOME Drugs and SOME Users has been a phenomenal financial burden and an abysmal failure. The only people benefiting are pharmcos, law enforcement and the prison industry. Eventually, the system will be so overburdened that citizens will have to make a choice in where to spend their tax $$$$$. Privatized compounds for pot smokers? Is that a good investment?

The older geezers will stop this war with the help of the younger generation who think we old farts are insane for starting this ridiculous "war" in the first place. I believe it. I have hope that sanity will rule in the end.
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
22. If I have anything to say about it, yes. - n/t
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
23. a serious law and order candidate could decriminalize to fight gangs and gang economies
black markets empower gangs. it's their bread and butter.

sure there's lots of illegal substances other than pot for gangs to profit from -- but this could take as much as 50% of the cash flow out of the hands of criminals.

the basic drug markets are crack/cocaine, heroin, pot. of the three, pot is by far the most consumed substance -- providing the most economic movement in gang economies. remove pot from their profit margin and you cripple the gangs by pushing them into smaller markets and reducing their reach.
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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. Good to see another Tennessean!
You raise another good point. The criminal element would lose if it were legal. Also, there would be less abuse of harder drugs if people didn't have to go to a drug dealer to obtain marijauna. There wouldn't be an opportunity for a dealer to offer other drugs.


(Btw- I am down near the town of Wartrace in Bedford county)
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-15-07 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. gorgeous down there!
a native floridian, was a tennessean for 24 years -- half in upper east tennessee and half in nashville.

last year i moved back to florida, but i'm keeping my name. i was a Tennessean by CHOICE. still a Tennessean at heart (she says watching the palms trees sway in the breeze).

_____________


something that really bothers me about marijuana laws is that they criminalize youth culture. pot is a high school thing (they don't call it "high" school for nothing). kids smoking pot aren't criminals, but kids *getting caught smoking pot* are most indeed treated as criminals. the tragedy here is that we cut our future off at the knees -- getting caught with pot can be the difference between going to college or going to jail.
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