Should the voting age be lowered to 17?

[cynatnite]

Poll question: Should the voting age be lowered to 17?

At that age teens can get married, go in the military and have babies. They're driving and they're paying taxes if they hold down a job.

They are doing pretty much everything an adult does.

What say you, DU?

[NMDemDist2]

1. my first Presidental election was just after the lowered the voting age to 18

that's young enough

[DangerDave921]

2. Raise it

I'd like to see the voting age bumped up to 25.

The older I get, the more scared I get of our idiotic college students. Not all of them, but it is scary how ill-informed many of them are. And I count my own nephews and little sister among them. College grads all, and could probably not pass a basic High School exam from the 1950's. Our standards are so much lower than they used to be.

[PeaceNikki]

6. Wisdom does not always come with age.

You has it or you don't.

[DangerDave921]

8. Yeah

but some basic knowledge would be nice.

[PeaceNikki]

14. Bah, That could be said of people at ANY age

I have a 17 year-old who's VERY politically involved and aware. He's more interested in politics/the state of this country/world than most 40 year-old that I know. The same can be said for most of his friends, too.

The fact is, I could see government/civics classes being significantly more relevant in high school if they could actively prepare for the process in real-time.

[cynatnite]

11. And whether one has wisdom or not no matter their age, they can vote n/t

[ContinentalOp]

7. Hah.

I'd agree to that if we could also place an upper age limit. After you retire you're no longer allowed to vote. :P

:eyes:

[DangerDave921]

9. LOL

[Selatius]

13. Well, I've had different results with 21 year-olds I've known.

They were Democrats. Several of them were College Democrats. They knew what was up with the economy and the war. They thought the economy had become too unbalanced and that the war was an absolute waste of lives and money and needed addressing, badly. That's why they voted for Kerry in 2004 despite the fact that this state is conservative like few others and despite the fact that some super right wing nutjob torched their homecoming parade float to intimidate them. Likely, they'll vote for Obama this time around.

I don't see how you can put forth argument to raise the voting age to 25. There are many 40, 50, 60+ year-olds who can be just as ill-informed as an 18 year-old, but with some of the old ones, they tend to be more guilty of willful ignorance or of refusing to accept changes in society since they were young. I see it time and time again, especially living in a state such as Mississippi, which still has a rampant problem with bigotry.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

17. I run into plenty of older folks that are just as dumb. nt

[stillcool]

19. Jeez..have you checked out..

the McCain/Palin rallies? The younger generation has not had 30 years of getting their brains poisoned. It would be nice to have one generation of Americans not infected by war.

[LeftyMom]

29. Based on the demographic breakdowns the past few elections,

older voters scare me a lot more. Young people are, as a general rule, not homophobic or racist. They're also media savvy enough to know when they're being lied to.

[Ichingcarpenter]

36. And Bring back the Draft!!

Then the poll tax!!!

[Selatius]

3. You can't join the military at 17 without explicit permission from the parents.

I could be wrong on that point, but you are required to obtain your parents' permission before you can enlist at 17.

[cynatnite]

10. The point is a teenager is able to at that age...the military will allow it n/t

[Xithras]

15. Or drive in most states n/t

[PeaceNikki]

4. I say yes.

They are held accountable as adults for their action at this age and they should be able to have a voice.

[ContinentalOp]

5. No. They're not legally adults yet.

They can't get drafted. They can't get married without parental consent. They probably shouldn't be having kids yet. Most are not paying taxes or holding down a job.

Following your logic, why not lower the voting age to 16? In some states kids can get married at 16 with parental consent. Kids have babies at ages much younger than that so why not let them vote?

[cynatnite]

18. And teens DO pay taxes when they work

Teens are turned into adults by courts. There are cases of teens being as young as 14 years old and they get tried as adults.

I see an inconsistency and a hypocrisy. Yes, they're adults when we want them to be, but they're not when we don't want them to be, too.

BTW, where are the stats supporting your contention majority of teens do not work?

[kiva]

30. Need to be careful with this argument.

I've seen several posts on other boards that say poor people shouldn't be allowed to vote because "they don't pay taxes" (nevermind sales tax, gasoline taxes, and all sorts of other taxes). Linking paying (presumably income) tax to voting isn't somewhere we should go.

[cynatnite]

34. It's called taxation without representation...

something the founding fathers had a thing about. I'm not saying we should deny people the right to vote if they don't work. I'm saying if someone who is 17 works, and pays taxes then perhaps we should consider it.

[gollygee]

40. I worked and paid taxes at 14

17 is arbitrary too. I don't see why it's better than 18.

And I don't think kids should be able to enlist at 17 either. Although I suppose kids who plan to go into the military immediately after high school need something to do between high school and the military otherwise, if they can't or won't stay with their families.

[ferrferr]

12. Nope.. no way

"Old enough to have kids" is a stretch, because biologically some girls are "ready" to have kids at 12 or even 13 but that doesn't mean I want them voting.


I think that the drinking age should be the same as the age in which you can die for your country. I also think we should take a page from Germany and crack down about handing out drivers licenses like pez. :P

[deaniac21]

16. Fourteen or Fight!

[Xithras]

20. No. Absolutely not. That's a dangerous idea.

While some kids do what you describe, remember that MOST 17 year olds live at home and are still dependent on their parents. Most have never lived a life in which they weren't reliant on their parents for shelter and financial support.

Now imagine a conservative parent looking at his underage child and saying "As long as you live in my household, you'll vote for xxx or I'll ground you and take away your car/tv/stereo/computer/college funding". Keep in mind that a poll not long ago found that over HALF of the 18 year olds in this country would trade their vote for an iPod, so a threat of that kind carries some weight. A man can make that threat to his wife, and she has the option of leaving him for it. A minor has no such ability.

A better argument would be that the age of majority in the U.S. is too high. If we allowed kids to assume the responsiblities of adulthood and move out at 17, freeing their parents of both rights and burdens to care for the youth, then I'd support giving them the right to vote.

Voting is a right given to independent adults, not dependent minors.

[PeaceNikki]

21. Silly. Unless dad goes into the booth with kid in your scenario, how would he know?

OK dad... I'll vote McCain...

[Selatius]

22. A lot of 18 year-olds are not independent adults as it is. Many of them still live at home.

It's not surprising given the high unemployment rate of teenagers relative to older workers. I'm not necessarily arguing for or against lowering the voting age here, just imparting my own observations on the matter.

[cynatnite]

24. Yes, and I can easily see a child lying to his or her parent about that...

It's like a teen swearing he or she never has smoked pot or drank a beer.

Of course, our society will call a child an adult when it's convenient such as when a crime is committed. But when we don't want to hear what they've got to say it's 'sit down and shut up'.

I'd like to see that poll if you've got it.

[Telly Savalas]

31. If dependent minors don't have a say in our current public policy.

Then we shouldn't be making them pay for it when they grow up.

[Phred42]

23. I don't have any confidence in the 18 year olds I know these days

Clueless Self involved airheads

[cynatnite]

25. What about the millions who voted for bush in 2004?

Would you call them clueless? Should they have their right to vote revoked?

What about the 25% of America who still supports bush? Should they lose their right to vote because they're stupid?

I've got an 18 year old who I would trust in a voting booth from the time she was 15. That's because I raised her to question, to read and to think.

We give 17 year olds a lot of adult rights.

[Phred42]

37. I didn't say they should have their voting rights revoked

Cut the crap.

Are you referring to the millions of 18 yr olds that voted for shit-for-brains?

Your 18 yrold .... obviously is an exception then.

I stand by my initial statement - Just because there are a few teenagers on the ball is no reason to assume that most are.

[cynatnite]

43. I'm referring to the millions of adults who voted for shit-for-brains...

I trust teenagers as a whole far more than the adults who are currently in charge. This country has been fucked up by so-called adults for a long time. I say they can't do any worse than we have. Hell, I'd bet they would do better.

[gollygee]

26. I think 18 is a good age

and kids can have babies at like 12 or 13 or something, so that isn't really the best argument.

The legal age of adulthood is 18, and adulthood is when people should vote. I see no reason to lower it.

[yodoobo]

27. No I don't think 18 year olds are smart enough either frankly

Most of the ones I've met (including myself at that age), had no business voting. There are exceptions of course.

That said, I support the right of 18 year-olds to vote, on the principle that if we as a society feel that are old enough be drafted and go to war, then they should sure as hell get a say so in it.

IMO, 21 should be the minimum age for military service, voting and drinking. At 18-20 your still just a kid.

17? forget it. Open that can of worms and we'll have 17 year olds leaving high school early to go get killed in Iraq.

[cynatnite]

33. The minimum age for enlistment is 17 n/t

[yodoobo]

45. fair enough

Personally I think 17 is way to young to join the military or vote. But it does seem fair that anyone in the military should be given the right to vote.

[Telly Savalas]

28. Why not? Political discourse on the news stations is targeted at 12 years olds.

Hell, my six year old is probably more politically savvy than about a third of the electorate.

I know you gotta draw the line somewhere, but 17 year olds are just as capable of making an informed choice as 40 year olds. Moreover, since much of our government spending is done on a credit card, it's the 17 year olds who will be paying for our current policies when they get older. So it's only fair they should have a say.

[slackmaster]

32. I think they should raise it to 35

:nuke:

[Ms. Toad]

35. They already can, in many states.

My daughter cast her first vote (for Obama) in the primary last spring at age 17. In Ohio, anyone who will be 18 by the general election is eligible to vote for candidates (but not issues) in the primary.

I mentioned to her that I thought she might be eligible, and before I could confirm that she was eligible she had gotten a registration form from school, completed it, and had it turned in.

Is her political reasoning mature? In some ways yes, in other ways no. BUT its way more mature than the reasoning of the dingbats I see fawning over Palin and declaring the copy of Barack Obama's birth certificate a fake. (They apparently never had to obtain a copy of their birth certificate and were expecting Obama's to look like the old handwritten hospital version).

In short - while I don't know that I'd necessarily lower the age to 17 generally, 17 year olds are nearly as likely to be mature as quite a few of their elders. What many states have done seems appropriate. If you're going to vote in the general election, you ought to be able to have a say in narrowing the list of candidates.

[Quantess]

38. Lower the drinking age to 18 and then we'll talk.

Seriously, I think the drinking age should be 18.
Voting at 17? Maybe. Most of them are already driving, which is the scariest part.

[salguine]

39. Lowering the voting age isn't the answer; raising the marrying, military and baby age is.

[TripleEntente]

41. I believe it should

Kids who graduate high school at that age should have a basic knowledge of US History and other subjects that readies them to pick a candidate reasonably.

[LeftinOH]

42. At 18, I proudly cast my first vote for President....for Ronald Reagan

..because at the age of 18 I knew everything. Since then, I have grown increasingly aware of my ignorance with each passing year.

[cynatnite]

44. My grandmother voted for him, too. You both have something in common n/t