Looks like foreign markets are imploding again. So what good was the bailout?

[lonestarnot]

We apparently didn't please the Chinese or what?

[Gregorian]

1. Trickle down economics. Trickle up bailouts.

Yeah, I've been wondering the same.

Oops. I'm afraid to look at the Nikkei. But then it usually just follows it's big brother Dowboy.

[radfringe]

21. Trickle-down is no more - it's now

PIE-CRUMB theory - the pie is grown bigger and the rest of us wait around for crumbs to fall

[Lasher]

2. Other shoes are dropping.

The bailout wasn't enough. This looks incredibly bad.

[lonestarnot]

3. We are incredibly fucked!

[uppityperson]

5. It really really really pisses me off to be right.

I mean, being cynical and pessimistic are fine, but really, did I have to be right? Scary indeed.

[lonestarnot]

10. What in the hell is going to happen when over half the population is homeless and hungry?

[uppityperson]

14. I've told family to come out to our rural area. May not be high living, but

with a garden and chickens, we can survive for a while. It could get really ugly.

[lonestarnot]

24. I'm afraid you could be right.

[Lasher]

32. What has been will be again,

what has been done will be done again;
there is nothing new under the sun.

[Robbien]

4. Well the banks took our money and are using it to buy other banks

instead of loaning the money out to people/corporations. Appears banks buying out other banks with our money was approved and encouraged by Paulson.

Guess foreign markets have just given up on the US acting in any way honorable.

[lonestarnot]

7. And some big ass losers at that!

[MomOf4]

23. How Does Credit Help Us Now?

It doesn't make a bit of difference if credit thaws or freezes. I wouldn't take out a new loan or purchase a single stock at this time. Throwing money at the goobers who got us into this mess makes very little sense to me. I mean, who in the heck is suppose to get and spend these loans? Do they really expect lil' old me to go into MORE debt just to save their asses?

[Marsala]

6. The credit markets are starting to unfreeze a little

However, it's too late for the economy, which is now plunging headlong into a recession. The stock market is reacting to the poor earnings coming in.

[lonestarnot]

8. How long will that last with the jobs market running down hill like a cheese wheel chase?

[RainDog]

9. I think we're still in the early part of this mess

the ponzi scheme house of cards is still falling.

[lonestarnot]

11. And letting it ride with parasites for 3 more months is going to be

another double down mess.

[NeoTheo]

22. You are absolutly correct

We haven't even got to the good part of this yet but it's comming.

[scheming daemons]

12. the bailout had NOTHING TO DO WITH THE MARKETS

The bailout was about unfreezing credit. And it is working to that end.

The LIBOR rates have gone down for 8 straight business days.


The bailout has no direct correlation to the stock markets. It's about saving banks and freeing up credit. To that end, it is working.

[lonestarnot]

25. Oh bullshit. It was sold as a bill of goods to raise confidence.

Continued living off credit is not going to cure the problem.

[scheming daemons]

31. You continually miss the point....

...and I think it is because you don't WANT to understand it.


The bailout had NOTHING to do with saving the market. Eventually, in the end, it will do so as the overall economy is saved.


The bailout was about unfreezing credit so banks would start lending to one another again.


The bailout was about accepting a hard recession instead of a deep depression.


We had two choices:

1) No bailout - get a 1930s style depression

2) bailout - get a 1981-82 style hard recession


We chose option 2.

Thankfully.

[lonestarnot]

33. I saw your point.

Your conclussion I do not agree with and time will tell. It's not looking like your option 2 is correct.

[scheming daemons]

37. Really? you don't think we're entering a hard recession? I do....

[ProfessorGAC]

41. Well, Then We Disagree

For one thing, i've been saying right here at DU, for almost 5 years that we are in recession. So, from my perspective (and forget the silly 2 straight quarter thing), we're entering nothing.

Secondly, my view is shared by the preponderance of academic economists.

So, you have your opinion, and i have mine.

The Professor

[lonestarnot]

43. A fucking depression! We've been in a recession for months. Waiting

for the worst yet to come.

[ProfessorGAC]

36. Option 1 is Based Upon What Economic Model?

Looks like you may have bought the whole enchilada. More than 75% of the economics community did not feel that the situation was as you describe it.
The Professor

[girl gone mad]

40. More than a little bit disingenuous.

TARP was never implemented as intended. Instead, Paulson was forced into a recapitalization scheme by Europe.

Even so, the Fed has had to make moves unrelated to TARP, such as direct infusions into the commercial paper markets.

While LIBOR rates have improved, banks are still unwilling to lend to each other at longer tenors, particularly thirty to ninety days, and corporations have not been able to sell commercial paper at those maturities. These were the real concerns that the bailout was supposed to address.

[galileoreloaded]

44. Nooo, actually, you were told it was option 2, but there really is only one option....

we go down very, very hard.



This is from 2006, but if anyone can't understand this, well, I don't think anything will help.

Reality is a cold mistress, but hey, even the wealthy will take a huge bath.

[lonestarnot]

46. eeeeeee an ice bath!

[Captiosus]

50. Mmhmm.. 'Unfreezing the credit markets', right.

Remember all that jazz they (and by they, I mean everyone involved) screamed at us about the bailout and how we had to have it or small businesses would start to get hurt because they couldn't get necessary loans or capital?

My wife's employer, a fairly successful Dentist, had all his lines of small business credit dry up over the last two weeks. Their payroll will be fine but once they start to run low on supplies they're going to hit a problem.

My former employer couldn't make payroll last pay period and, from what I hear from my friends still employed with them, can't make payroll this pay period either. The main company is late on the rent for the Williamsburg, VA building. Their lenders have magically disappeared and investments have been in steady decline for the last 10 quarters.

Looks like, to me, 'unfreezing the credit markets' translated directly into financial institutions plugging holes in their balance sheets or buying other financial institutions but still keeping a death grip on their money.

[ProfessorGAC]

35. Data?

Just wondering how you would go about proving that.
The Professor

[2hip]

13. U.S.pre-market is up fwiw

http://money.cnn.com/data/premarket/index.html

[snot]

15. a link wd be nice?

[lonestarnot]

26. Yes it would, but I don't have one. Was was news on TV re foreign markets.

[leftofthedial]

16. the bailout was a supply-side theft

it worked PERFECTLY

just ask the executives at Goldman Sachs and the other beneficiaries.

Oh, and don't wait for the trickle down. That wet stuff ain't your money.

[TreasonousBastard]

17. You expect overnight miracles? The "bailout" has hardly started.

[lonestarnot]

34. I thought it was sold as a fucking emergency! Why has it hardly started!

What bullshit!

[Kaleko]

18. I found this very credible summary of our situation and what's likely to happen

http://www.earth.columbia.edu/worldeconomy/

Earth institute Event - Can We Save the World Economy?

Live Webcast
(video link on the page)

George Soros, global financier and philanthropist, founder and chairman of the Open Society Institute and the Soros foundations network, and chairman of Soros Fund Management LLC.

Nouriel Roubini, professor of economics and international business at the Stern School of Business, New York University.

Jeffrey Sachs, director of the Earth Institute at Columbia University and special advisor to United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.

Moderated by John Roberts of CNN.

A conversation on the breakdown of financial markets around the world and if we can save the global economy. Will the Wall Street bailout plan work? What steps need to be taken in Europe and Asia to stem the market’s downward spiral? Are we headed for a global recession? Three of the leading minds in global economics will discuss the options.

[lonestarnot]

27. Cool thanks. I will watch it.

[coyote]

19. Starting Thursday or Friday we are going to see the start of

a historical crash. The indexes will lose about 30% of their value in the next 2 to 4 weeks.. Dow jones from 8000 to 6000. S&P 500 from 920 down to ~ 600 to 650.

If it is possible for you, get out of debt now.

No bailout is going to save this market. This market needs full transparency. But that is like asking the criminals in charge to give up peacefully....it will never happen.

Best to all.

[adigal]

48. If you owe $5000 in debt, why pay it off now??

If the markets collapse, no one will be paying off their debts, so I wouldn't rush to put my money in the pockets of the credit card companies right now. I am going to hold onto my cash.

[NeoTheo]

20. Well, America expects a quick fix for everything

But in this issue we have been beyond a quick fix for a long time. Continue to expect markets to decline.

But hey, everybody did feel good for a couple of days. I mean you at least expect that for 700 billion.

[Captiosus]

49. It didn't help that our so-called 'leaders' billed this as

Necessary IMMEDIATELY and that we would see an immediate effect.

And then when it passed, Bush* gets on TV changing his story and saying it would take time. This bailout bill has been a 700 billion dollar bait and switch.

[Greyhound]

28. It was so that the parasites would get another shot of capital with which to buy up

the bargains that this is creating. The Ponzi scheme is collapsing and they will emerge from this as absolute lords, all on our dime.

Sucks being right.:(

[enid602]

29. Thanks, Cristina

A lot of Latin American and European markets are in the red now due to Argentina´s announcement two days ago to nationalize private pension funds. Merval in Bs As down 17% yesterday, and the IBEX in Madrid over 8%.

[fascisthunter]

30. Not Sure... But I'm Sure Some Meat Head Will Tell Ya "Thank God it Passed"

[scheming daemons]

38. Thank God It Passed

I guess I'm a meathead.

[fascisthunter]

39. Lol...

oh no... you are brilliant. I look for your posts when I want to understand the economy.

[ProfessorGAC]

42. Oh, Me Too

Especially since he/she is so willing to provide the data and expert opinion to support the profundity.
The Professor

[lonestarnot]

45. Looking like the confessionals of the Meathead are expert opinion!

:rofl:

[lonestarnot]

47. Expert Meathead!

:rofl: