many californians who voted for obama voted 'yes on 8.

[xchrom]

now you those people cross EVERY racial category.

every religious category/

every political category.

african americans held hands with white conservative catholics who held hands with conservative baptists who held hands with asian who held hands with neo nazi skin heads who held hands with liberals who held hands with conservatives to vote yes on 8.

most important to me though are ALL of those people who voted for obama and yes on 8.

it succeeded narrowly -- and yes gay sexism in the black community has to be questioned.

as it does in all communities.

but if we are willing to kick liberty university in the ass for this -- then i'm gonna hold african americans to account as well.

now you don't have to fuckin like it -- i don't really give a shit.

because if you think that holding ANYBODY in particular accountable here is offensive -- then you are simply not productive to the solution.

both african americans and lgbtiq people understand irony -- and there is extraordinary irony that 8 succeeded in cali -- and yes it was -- helped over the line by african americans.

[PFunk]

1. Welcome to one of the black and latino communities deep dark secrets.

One that many 'enlightened' blacks an latinos have strived to either ignore or worse keep hidden. Well since now that secret is out in the open it's now to confront and tackle it head on. Starting with the black and latino comunities themselves. BEFORE it becomes a wedge issue the repugs can use against us all.

(And yes this is from a black straight male)

[readmoreoften]

3. Watch out, there will be white folks accusing you of racism starting 3, 2, 1...

I'm a white, working class lesbian who came out in the black community with the love and support and education of black gays and lesbians. Oh, and straight black folks who accepted me for who I am.

We owe it to each other to come together. We'll all lose... and black LGBT people will lose the most.

[pinto]

2. The AA polling sample was 10% of voters. Not noted by DUers is that 29% of voters polled were (R)

and 82% of them broke for Prop 8. And 24% of voters polled were white Republicans, with the same 82% break for Prop 8.

Somehow that 70% figure among black voters polled - which were only 10% of all voters - has become the bone of contention here.

If I read it right, out of 100 voters in the sample, 7 blacks voted for Prop 8 and 23 white Republicans voted for Prop 8.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1

[readmoreoften]

4. Hey wait, why does the poll keep changing???

[pinto]

5. I don't see that it's changed. ?

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#CAI01p1

10% of the exit polling were African Americans, they broke 70% for Prop 8.

29% of the exit polling were Republicans, they broke 82% for Prop 8.

24% of the exit polling were white Republicans, they broke 82% for Prop 8.

[readmoreoften]

6. The numbers were different a few nights back.

If I'm recalling correctly, more Latino voters voted against prop 8 yesterday than today... Am I misremembering?

[pinto]

9. Not sure. I've only looked at this one exit poll today. The CA Sec. of State will have official

totals in a week or so. No ethnic/race breakdown, but the final tally. There are still a lot of absentee ballots to count. Counties do that by hand, so it takes a bit of time.

[Connie_Corleone]

8. Also, when you look at that poll, they have no breakdown for age when it comes to blacks.

So, we don't know if younger black people voted for or against. It could be generational, but we don't know.

Latinos between the ages of 30-44 voted 60% in favor of 8.

There isn't even any data on how black men voted in that exit poll.

Having said all of that, denying rights for a minority shouldn't be put on a ballot for the majority to vote on. The votes will almost always go against the minority group. That's why the courts have to be involved.

[robinlynne]

7. AND THE VOTES ARE STILL UNCOUNTED. 2,800,000 of them to be exact.

Enough votes to kill prop 8 several times over have not been counted.
massive purges in LA COunty. All those voters purged had to vote on rpovisonal ballots.
Noone is watching the vote counts....
jsut lookig at who is at fault.
It is not over until the votes are COUNTED, and VERIFIED.

[xchrom]

10. the same counties that pushed high speed trains over the line failed to vote yes on 8

because of provisional ballots ?

when you look at the cali map -- most of the people who voted no on 8 are exactly the SAME people who voted high speed trains into existence.

so did votes re: 8 jump off of the page somehow?

1 in 4 san franciscans voted yes -- btw -- and that number includes african americans -- and others who voted for obama.

[amdezurik]

11. it shows 2,240 respondents

they also seem to not publish any result with less then a 5% representative sample, so yes some of those pools are about 112 but it looks like the pool of blacks was 10% of the 2,240 so about 224 which does not seem to outrageous to me, Latino about 18%. and I see lots of other break-outs of votes that look more significant then race myself. despite some folks insisting it can only be seen through the lens of race age for instance is VERY important here, under 25's were overwhelmingly NO (see, kids ARE smarter!) while lower income folks were mostly NO, while better off people were YES, did you expect that? I sure didn't. Bottom line, race was a factor here but far, far from the defining one no matter how much some here want it to be.

[xchrom]

12. considering how narrowly yes succeeded -- i'm

sorry race votes were important.

you don't have to like that -- but when any proposition or election is close -- then every vote in important and how it breaks down is important.

it is how we target anything that is up for vote after all.

[readmoreoften]

13. No, racial breakdown only tells us what communities dislike us more.

If 79% of white and latino voters voted against and 100% of Black and Asian-American voters voted for, we would have kicked ass.

[xchrom]

15. i think you're swallowing a teaspoon of sugar to help the medicine go down.

[muriel_volestrangler]

23. People here have low expectations of Republicans

They've already proved themselves stupid by being a Republican. I think that's why that is un-noted.

[Ecumenist]

14. How is it my fault as a black woman WHO VOTED NO ON PROP 8

and EVERY BLACK PERSON I KNOW VOTED NO ON 8 TOO??? You do realise that we as a group are a relatively small percentage of the population, right? Somewhere around 7% of the voting population and we are not homogeneous. You do realise that there are fundies amongst us as with any other group? WHY ISN'T there an outcry against Whites, especially Eastern European immigrants? There are ALOT of then here in the North State and MOST of them are almost violently anti-gay! They've been involved in fatal gay bashings that were attended by their churches, ( this happened in Folsom @ Nimbus Dam a year or so ago. A gay east Indian man was attacked and died as a result of hitting his head after being knocked down).

Why aren't there any outcries against Latinos? Are you people honestly telling me that PROP8 passed solely because of black voters?

I voted against it because it wasn't right and I placed myself into the shoes of my fellow Californians. I am married to a WHITE BOHEMIAN CZECH from TEXAS for crying out loud! It's not a stretch for these same types to feel emboldened enough some time in the future to come after people like me next. Why am I being attacked when I voted against it along with EVERYONE I know INCLUDING THE BLACK FRIENDS AND FAMILY??!! Does it make sense to attack people who look like me because of the way some of us may have voted?

I think that it's easy to identify people like me to focus the rage and anger on. Perhaps, those of you who feel that it's acceptable to attack in the most vile manner people who more than likely tried their best to turn that horrible piece of legislation by placing our votes, maybe, just maybe, you were looking for a reason to hurl racist trash. otherwise, it just doesn't make any sense to attack one SMALL segment of the population because of some exit polls when this was something that was voted on by the millions of eligible voters from the Mexican border to Oregon and the Pacific to the Nevada and Arizona.

[xchrom]

16. anecdotal evidence isn't evidense -- we are still faced with the fact that people of colour in

numbers significan enough to have an outcome on this proposition held hands with some very, very unsavoury types to vote against lgbtiq people.

now you don't have to like it -- but you do have to live with it.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Cali_Democrat]

17. "I think that it's easy to identify people like me to focus the rage and anger on."

BINGO. You said it. It's much easier for people to focus on black voters for passing prop 8. People don't want to analyze the complex situation because it's much easier to pin the blame on blacks. There were a number of variables involved in the passage of prop 8.

49% of whites voted for prop 8. Whites make up almost 6x the number of blacks in the electorate in California.

49% of Asians voted for prop 8. Asians make up almost 2x the number of blacks in the electorate in California.

53% of Hispanics voted for prop 8. Hispanics make up almost 6x the number of blacks in the electorate in California.


Yet blacks are the ones that are taking the heat. It's all because of some stupid exit poll that can't be all that reliable anyway. Exit polls are notoriously inaccurate and the blacks are taking heat.

Blacks are only 7% of the population and unfortunately the media and nefarious people have made it seem like 7% of California imposed their will on the other 93% of the population. It's absolutely absurd and offensive.

[Connie_Corleone]

19. All I know is that all this "black people did this" crap is making me sick.

Then I read about a protest where some gay people called black gay people niggers to their faces just because they're the same color as the ones who voted for the proposition??!! It didn't matter that black gay people were there in support of the protest. They're black so they must be homophobes. How stupid is that?

Homophobia in the black community has to be addressed. And I've been bringing up the racism in the gay community against black gay people that doesn't get talked about either.

Singling out black people for the cause of prop. 8 passing is scapegoating.

But it will continue, because some group always has to be blamed for something.

To hell with it. I'm done.

[Ecumenist]

21. Thank you Cali_Democrat...

I really believe that alot of this outcry is an excuse for alot of these people to express repressed feelings that they've always wanted to say.

[xchrom]

25. again -- it would have taken very very few to pu 8 over the top

now you don't have to like it -- but disparate and sometime extremely acrimonious groups{think african americans voting with racists} voted together to send a yes vote.

it is bizarre that somehow you think that is not worth pointing out!?

[SoCalDem]

29. and... 816,220 people who voted for president, did not cast ANY vote on Prop 8

and the measure was "approved" by 504,126 votes..

What "color" were the 816,220 who skipped the whole proposition part??

Of course our totals will not be final for weeks, because it take a long time, so the difference may be less than that or more..

Our ballot measures are often put there by out-of-state busybodies with shitloads of money..and the wording is so convoluted, that often when you vote NO, you are actually approving something,...and many times, people don't even bother to vote on any of the props

[xchrom]

30. and? -- a lot of people wo voted for obama voted yes on 8.

so now is obama an out of state busy body or not?

he certainly played both sides of the coin.

\and it can certainly be argued there is no dissonnance in that vote -- after all --

"Giving them a set of basic rights would allow them to experience their relationship and live their lives in a way that doesn't cause discrimination," Obama said. "I think it is the right balance to strike in this society."
Sources: Chicago Daily Tribune, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force

is a fair hall mark of obama's stand on lgbtiq people.

[cliffordu]

18. I blame the people who didn't work hard enough to stop it.

Because they never thought it could happen in California.


THIS HAPPENED IN CALIFORNIA FOR FUCKS SAKE.

There should have been a war chest of 10 million dollars to defeat this piece of shit bill two days after it was filed.

But no.....Now it's easier to just blame the scared, brainwashed haters at large for voting for it.

Requires less effort.


You can bet your ass the ground game will be a little different when the court overturns this abomination and those maggots re-file that piece of shit hate legislation.

If the court overturns it.

[varelse]

27. That'd be me

for one, and I'll take the blame. I never dreamed that this piece of shit would pass here, and I surely did not do enough to stop it. :(

[bridgit]

22. An AA caller into Randi this afternoon provided quite the eye opener...

into just what some consider a civil-rights-wrong having been perpetrated by way of hurtful impact upon an individual, and I suppose by extension: a demographic group. It would seem some wrongs are more usury than others requiring 'genuinely valid forms' of redress, still...

The conversation while starting out slow, and seemingly measured, was ended by Rhodes cause of what she referred to as arguments predicated upon negatives & falsities in logic and understandings of what is civil, on the part of the caller, regarding injustices visited upon what are Americans as a whole.

The genus of the caller's concern ultimately ended up centering upon procreation between men & women, as well, ultimately, invitations that were believed to flow into unions between brothers & sisters, persons & cousins, etc, really strange stuff...

I am only in a position to recommend interested people seek the pod-cast, or transcript of the shows broadcast; but there can be no doubt...

Prop 8 was narrowly successful. The percentiles are narrowing as well vis-a-vis previous vote analysis, though that is little consolation here. Compassionate people pray for relief in an environment that is driven by such ignorance, and the nefarious application of millions of $'s from sources outside California in this instance. In such an environment 1,2,3% become vital. Though somehow still less vital where it seems people are able to express more compassion toward the living space in which chickens lay their eggs = a tragedy! A human tragedy!

The next caller offered an even more expansive set of misplaced parables, with a 3rd caller wandering aimless through a liturgy of cherry picked scripture leaving Randi to inform that she was married in an Elvis Chapel, and divorced in a court of law which I understood her to mean that marriage contains a far more civilized component than these as-such fundamental minds are able to absorb...

These calls left me with the impression that, if even by a slim margin, we are not our brother's & sister's keepers. Not yet. Those words are non-transferable feel-good things said on Sunday', and choked to tears six ways to it. We are they that inhibit our brothers & sisters, we clip their rights leaving them flightless.

Separate Church & State Now! Though as for YOU! - m'dear one------------------------------------>:hug:

[xchrom]

24. thank you. -- oh and --

:hug: :yourock:

[Nye Bevan]

26. Not surprising. Obama said that marriage is a "sacred union between a man and a woman"

less than 3 months ago. And that "God is in the mix".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUMwQcMVmnc

Proponents of Prop 8 sent out fliers quoting Obama saying these words. I know that Obama's "official" position was that he opposed Prop 8, but that is the worst kind of Clintonesque weaseling.

Obama will be a great president and I want him to lead public opinion on this issue. He is a big enough man to admit that he was wrong to say those words, and that he has come to unambiguously support the cause of gay marriage.

[xchrom]

28. it's important to note this -- because those voted for obama

saw no contradiction in voting yes on 8.

[Starry Messenger]

31. And what form is this "holding accountable" going to take? n/t