Are my parents married or civilly-unionized?

[readmoreoften]

Poll question: Are my parents married or civilly-unionized?

40 Years ago my parents said their wedding vows in their own home with an elected official presiding in the United States of America. They did not say the words "God, Jesus, Lord, Spirit, Higher Power, Heavenly Father" or any other religious phrase. For 40 years they have paid income taxes as a married couple. They are called "husband" and "wife" on all their medical and insurance forms.

Apparently, my family, the state and federal government have been confused and wrong for the last 40 years. From what I hear from some DUers-- the bozo wing of the Democratic party, if you will--my parents are not at all married but civilly-unionized.

So which is it?

[LeftyMom]

1. Pronouncements of nitwits aside, they're married.

Sure, maybe a system of separate civil and religious ceremonies with separate nomenclature would work better if we were starting from scratch, but since we're not starting from scratch and there isn't the political will (or a good reason) to reinvent the wheel, the "civil unions for everybody" crowd are being morons.

[readmoreoften]

3. I don't really see the need for separate nomenclature. My guess is that Dutch couples call

themselves married no matter if its a religious ceremony or not.

[LeftyMom]

4. Agreed.

If starting from scratch, a different word to clearly delineate civil and religious pairings would help to eliminate confusion, but at this point I don't see any way of totally detaching the two culturally and linguistically, or that there's enough reason to be worth the effort, as long as the legal matters are clear (and they are.)

[readmoreoften]

15. I don't want to even see the words separated. There's no point. Marriage means a joining together.

Let them have Religious Union and we'll keep the term married. I'm married. My government simply refuses to recognize it because of religious supremacists.

[NotThisTime]

27. You know what? I don't care, my 13 year old doesn't care, whatever you are, whoever you want to

marry, we wish you the best....

Another ten years from now, hopefully sooner, these conversations will not be necessary.

[Zhade]

23. But well-meaning morons.

: )

[LeftyMom]

24. GD is overrun with well-meaning morons of late, no?

:sigh:

I just got "you people"'d in another thread. :eyes:

[nickgutierrez]

2. They're bound by a legal contract, and they can call it whatever the hell they want.

The official name for that happens to be "marriage", which is fine by me.

Obviously, I wish those same rights applied to any two consenting adults, but that's something to work toward.

[Qanisqineq]

5. I don't know what I am.

Civil union or married. I was married in Las Vegas at a hotel by a woman that may or may not have been a pastor. I really don't know. The only mention of God was at the very end in a prayer we agreed to have to get his parents to shut up. During the vows, etc. there was no mention of religion at all. I don't know what I am, married or civil unioned. I've been calling myself married for 8 years now but am I?

[readmoreoften]

16. 22% of people on DU disagree with your marital status. Welcome to being gay.

And welcome to theocracy.

[FarCenter]

6. A religious ceremony has no legal significance

My recollection is that the legal marriage occurs when you sign the piece of paper in the clergyman's office, after the religous cermony. It also requires the signatures of witnesses.

Clergy are one of several groups empowered to do the signing.

I don't think that anything else is legally required, e.g. any exchange of "vows" by the couple. As long as the two getting married, the clergy/mayor/judge/notary public/ship's captain, etc., and the witnesses all sign, the deed is done.

[TexasObserver]

8. NO, that isn't the law. A marriage is formed by license or by common law.

Under common law, it requires only that (1) neither person is currently already married, and (2) the couple holds themselves out to the public as married, and consider themselves married.

The details vary from state to state, but that's the essence of the common law marriage. THERE IS NO RELIGIOUS REQUIREMENT OR COMPONENT.

Marriage is a legally binding state, under state law, and there is extensive law, both statutory and case law, in every state regarding those legal rights. There are entire courts set up exclusively to handle matters of marriage dissolution.

It is fair to say that Marriage is a legal state which some religions insist is also a religious state. However, there are absolutely no legal rights conferred by the religious components of any marriage.

[FarCenter]

11. I think we actually mostly agree

Except that common law marriages are only legal in some states.

"In the United States, new common law marriages arising in the state are still recognised in Alabama, Colorado, Iowa, Kansas, Montana, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Utah and the District of Columbia,<1> and in several Canadian provinces."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage

In other states the written, witnessed, state-issued license is require in order to become married.

Clergy are only one group of people who, in non-common law marriage states, are empowered by the state to perform marriages. The definition of who is a "minister" is pretty squishy, and there are lots of religions, so one should be able to find an accommodateing individual. If the jurisdiction allows weddings to be performed by notary publics, you can have a friend become a notary public in order to officiate at the occasion.

[TexasObserver]

12. I don't know that we know the state the OP's parents were married in.

Anyone who is married common law, in a state which recognizes such, has a valid marriage, even if they then move to a state that does not have common law marriages, under the Full Faith and Credit clause of the constitution.

Each state has a body of laws which determine what requirements exist in each state for formation of marriage. Most states allow Justices of the Peace or clergy to perform weddings, as well as others. Judges, for example. I've been in the courtroom a number of times over the years when a judge has married some couple. Some do it for free. Some charge. Most do it for the PR benefit.

[FarCenter]

13. It appears that Florida, Maine and South Carolina allow Notary Publics to officiate

So your should be able to find one at almost any bank branch.

[readmoreoften]

19. Yes but the question was: do they have a civil union or a marriage.

Common law marriage in my parent's state means you've been cohabitating so long the state considers you married. By the way, no priest officiates over the designation. Sometimes the couple isn't even notified.

[TexasObserver]

21. And I answered you already by telling you YES, IT IS A MARRIAGE.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4427038&mesg_id=4427333

[readmoreoften]

30. Why are you yelling?

[TexasObserver]

33. I'm NOT yelling!

This is writing. It isn't speaking. Please don't get lost in your internet conventions.

Why are you so pissy? Don't ask for others to help you understand something if you're just going to be in a snit about when they do.

[readmoreoften]

34. Oh good god. I took you off ignore for one minute and you're already an asshole.

Learn how to talk to people. Yes I realize this is writing. And anyone who has been online for more than six months knows that using all caps is considered "yelling."

What a waste of a post.

[TexasObserver]

37. Tsk. Tsk. Such language. You shouldn't blow your stack like that.

It's not knowledge, but attention, you seek.

[Ms. Toad]

20. In most states, the clergyperson is authorized

by the state to perform marriages on behalf of the state. If the church chooses not to have their clergy register with the state, you are correct. On the other hand, if the church does have their clergy register with the state, then the religious component does confer legal rights because the state has chosen that path as one option for the legalization of marriage (other common ones being through a justice of the peace, or a judge - for example, or by common law).

Religious ceremonies, per se, do not create a legal relationship - but depending on state law they often can and do play a role.

As for common law marriages, there are still a few states that recognize common law marriage - but most no longer do. Whey they do, the religious ceremony can play a role in the creation of that legally recognized marriage, as well, because the exchange of vows satisfies the second component.

[Lex]

7. They were allowed to get a marriage certificate before their ceremony was done.

They are married.

If you get a ceremony in front of the Justice of the Peace, not in church, not with religious overtones, you are married.

That is because marriage (a religious ceremony) has become codified by the state statutes of each state, which is where the problem lies.

[NMMNG]

9. What does it say on their certificate?

Does it say "Certificate of Marriage" or does it say "Civil Union" something or other. I'll bet it's the former.

Religion does not own marriage. Christianity does not own marriage. The Mormons do not own marriage. Straight people do not own marriage. They may think they do, but they don't. And it's high time they learn that.

[readmoreoften]

14. It's says marriage. Frankly I never heard the term "civil union" before the 90s.

[NMMNG]

17. Right.

Civil Unions are the "Colored only" drinking fountains of the current age. We're not "worthy" of marriage according to some, and we'd taint their precious marriage if we were afforded the same rights as them. Hence the second-class status.

[TexasObserver]

10. Your parents are married. Marriage is a legal state, with an entire body of law.

Not a single religious aspect of marriage is enforceable at law, unless there is a legal basis to do so, in which case it is the legal, not religious, aspect which is enforced.

[silverojo]

18. It's NOT a religious issue!

Hell, you can get married before a justice of the peace. It's all legal, no religion involved.

[Zhade]

22. Wow. Who are the woefully-misinformed who answered B?

Sheesh!

[readmoreoften]

31. People we really start better worrying about.

Fast. And not just LGBTs.

[goodgd_yall]

25. Marriage is a civil or religious institution

Your parents are married as everyone else who married before a legitimate official and obtained a license. It's a civil marriage---maybe not recognized by some religions, but that only matters if your parents cared about that kind of thing.

[cherokeeprogressive]

26. No OTHER option.

EVERYONE who has decided that they've met their ONE AND ONLY is/should be considered to be civilly unionized. Make the word marriage an adjective that ANYONE CAN USE AS THEY SEE FIT.

[luv_mykatz]

28. Right on, BuffyTFS!

I agree with reply # 9. Marriage is not owned by churches, or heterosexuals, or any group. It involves a license, signed and witnessed by the couple, the official conducting the marriage, and witnesses to the signing. Marriage conveys legal rights to the couple.

I am no longer married, but when I was, the ceremony was performed by a judge, at my request. I did not want a church wedding, nor any promises to "obey" my husband. The divorce process was carried out in a court of law, not a church.

Separate, but (not) equal is not going to cut it.

[Withywindle]

29. My atheist parents are very much married!

Also celebrating their 40th anniversary this year! :hi: They got married at a courthouse by a judge. Don't believe in God. Don't go to church. Not back then, not now, not ever. No white dress, no clergy, none of that bullshit. And yet even their foaming fundie acquaintances don't question their MARRIAGE. Because that's what it is.

Civil-unionized just has too many damn syllables and sounds like loveless lawyerese. No headstrong young person in love ever wanted to ask his or her beloved, "Will you....enter into a civil union with me?"

[readmoreoften]

32. Not to 20% of the people at DU. How much higher is the percentage in the Repub party gonna be?

I see the argument "marriage is religious" leading to some fights that have nothing to do with gays.

:hi:

[gollygee]

35. I also had a non-religious ceremony and am MARRIED

Ten years and counting.

I have a lovely little thing that says CERTIFICATE OF MARRIAGE across the top.

[readmoreoften]

36. Apparently you're not to about 20% of DU. The atheistic govt liberals duped you into thinking this.

But in reality, marriage is--legally, in their opinion--about the Lord Thy God joining Man and Woman hand in hand. Anything less is something less.