Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Five Historical Parallels to the Iraqi Shoe Thrower

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:07 PM
Original message
Five Historical Parallels to the Iraqi Shoe Thrower
Societies have their rules, formal and informal. When people break those rules they often have to face society’s outrage. In the United States, one of the most strongly adhered to informal rules is respect for the “office of the Presidency”. So strong is that rule that it applies even to a President who has committed war crimes and has national approval ratings in the 20s. Even some liberals who are totally disgusted with what George Bush has done to our country believe that a certain amount of respect for the “office of Presidency” ought to be shown.

Peer pressure associated with these rules can be enormous, and can therefore cloud our thinking when we attempt to evaluate the actions of a person who breaks the rules. For that reason, I often find it useful to consider historical parallels when evaluating such actions.

This post discusses in chronological order what I consider to be five historical actions which have much in common with the actions of Iraqi TV reporter Muntazer al-Zaidi, who threw his shoes at George W. Bush during Bush’s recent visit to Iraq. None of these actions are absolute parallels. Yet I believe that they all have a great deal in common, and between them they exhibit great similarity to what al-Zaidi did.

Discussion of these historical parallels would be much more useful, in my opinion, in a public school setting than on DU. But I am not a school teacher, and even if I was, I probably wouldn’t be one for very long after holding this discussion with my students.


George Washington

In 1775, the British colonists in North America began a violent rebellion against their mother country. George Washington was chosen to lead the rebellion, as Commander-in-Chief. Washington’s role was crucial. Without his leadership the rebellion, if undertaken at all, would probably have been unsuccessful and ended with most of its leaders being executed for treason.

Washington, as well as the other colonial leaders, did in fact commit treason. But the following year they drew up a document that explained and rationalized their acts. The relevant part read:

Whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends (life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness), it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government…

Prudence, indeed, will dictate that governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes…But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such government, and to provide new guards for their future security.

These principles are well accepted by most of the world today – at least in theory. But at the time, it was considered treason, and would have been treated as such had the former colonists not won their war.

What Washington’s actions have in common with that committed by al-Zaidi is that they were violent actions taken against what both Washington and al-Zaidi considered to be tyrannical occupying governments. The main difference is that Washington’s actions were much more violent than were al-Zaidi’s, and Washington had a whole army behind him. In that respect, al-Zaidi’s actions were much less extreme than were Washington’s, but perhaps more courageous at the same time.


The rebel slaves aboard the Amistad

In 1839, 53 African slaves aboard the slave ship Amistad were en route to their new job on a Caribbean plantation. On July 1st they rebelled, killing the ship’s captain and cook, and ordered the remaining crew to sail to Africa. But two months later, the ship was seized off of the U.S. coast, and the Africans were imprisoned in Connecticut on charges of murder.

Ironically, the man who defended them in court was a former U.S. President, John Quincy Adams:

For 8 ½ hours, the 73-year-old Adams passionately and eloquently defended the Africans' right to freedom on both legal and moral grounds, referring to treaties prohibiting the slave trade and to the Declaration of Independence.

Adams’ heroic efforts were successful, and 35 of the Africans were allowed to return to Africa. The others died while awaiting trial or at sea.

The actions of these slaves were very similar in principle (thought more urgently needed) to the actions of Washington and the other colonial leaders. The slaves even used the exact same document in their defense as did Washington and the other colonial leaders.

The similarities and differences between the slaves’ and al-Zaidi’s actions were very similar to the similarities and differences between Washington’s and al-Zaidi’s actions.


Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg

On July 20, 1944, a Lieutenant Colonel in the German Army by the name of Claus Schenk Graf von Stauffenberg attempted to assassinate Adolf Hitler by means of a bomb hidden inside his suitcase. Devising an excuse to leave a meeting at Hitler’s headquarters in East Prussia, von Stauffenberg left his suitcase with the hidden bomb under the table in the meeting room as he exited the meeting. The bomb exploded shortly thereafter, but it failed to kill Hitler, and the plot to take control of the German military soon unraveled. Von Stauffenberg was arrested, brutally tortured, and then executed.

A primary motive for von Stauffenberg’s participation in the plot was to put an end to World War II. Had the assassination attempt succeeded, that war would most likely have ended several months sooner than it did, thereby sparing millions of lives and the physical destruction of much of Germany.

Thus van Stauffenberg’s motives were similar to al-Zaidi’s in that they both involved outrage over what they considered to be a needless and terribly destructive war. The main difference was that van Stauffenberg’s actions were intended to be much more definitive than al-Zaidi’s – though they failed.


Rosa Parks

On December 1, 1955, Rosa Parks, a black seamstress, committed a taboo act and broke a local law by refusing to give up her seat to a white passenger on a Montgomery, Alabama bus – an act for which she was arrested and fined.

Parks’ arrest spurred a wave of protests and a boycott of the city bus line in Montgomery that lasted over a year. By bringing attention to the plight of African-Americans living in the South, Parks’ act stirred our nation’s sympathies and began what many consider to be the start of the Civil Rights movement in the United States.

Some may object to my seeing a parallel between Parks’ act and that of al-Zaidi, in that her act was non-violent. But the principle behind it was similar. George Bush tries very hard to minimize reaction against his war of aggression and illegal occupation by posing as a “liberator” of the Iraqi people, rather than their oppressor and mass murderer. Acts such as what al-Zaidi did threaten to call world-wide attention to the fact that the Iraqi people see the invasion and current occupation of Iraq in very different terms than George Bush and Dick Cheney would like us to see it. It is acts like that which, if given enough publicity or repeated enough times, could alter the course of events in Iraq by helping to turn world and U.S. opinion against the U.S. occupation. It is unlikely that al-Zaidi’s action will be as effective as what Rosa Parks did – but you never know.


Cynthia McKinney

Since respect for “the office of the Presidency” seems to be such a big issue with respect to the shoe-throwing incident, that action brings Cynthia McKinney to mind. Nobody in the U.S. Congress has shown more disrespect for George Bush than former U.S. Representative McKinney. Indeed, it is fair to say that her words about him in this 2002 speech “crossed a line” that many Americans consider sacred, especially with regard to his role in the 9/11 attacks on our country:

I'm most proud of my work to hold this Administration accountable to the American people. And after I've asked the tough questions, here's what we now know:

That President Bush was warned that terrorists were planning to hijack commercial aircraft and crash them into buildings in the US…. (She then lists many more suspicious circumstances)….

All of this has become public knowledge since I asked the simple question: What did the Bush Administration know and when did it know it. Now against this backdrop of so many unanswered questions, President Bush wants us to pledge our blind support to him. First, for his war on terrorism and now for his war in Iraq. How can we, in good conscience, prepare to send our young men and women back to Iraq to fight yet another war…

“Cross a line” indeed. McKinney’s House seat was targeted by the Republican Party in 2002. She lost that election, but won it back in 2004. Her seat was targeted again in 2006, and she again lost her seat – but not before bringing articles of impeachment against George Bush to the floor of the House of Representatives.

McKinney’s and al-Zaidi’s actions were similar in that they were both meant as protests against George Bush’s illegal Iraq War and occupation. McKinney’s courageous actions against the President of the United States were non-violent and more “proper” than those of al-Zaidi. But McKinney, as a U.S. Congresswoman, had the opportunity – which al-Zaidi did not – to bring widespread attention to Bush’s misdeeds without resorting to physical aggression. Had she held no special powers, perhaps she would have thrown her shoe at him.


Conclusion – and thoughts on “respect for the office of the Presidency of the United States”

What all these actions have in common is that they were directed against what the perpetrators (or heroes) considered to be a tyrannical person or organization, at great risk to their career or physical safety. Some were much more violent than al Zaidi’s action, and others weren’t physically violent at all. But the purposes were similar – to fight against tyranny.

Many have objected to al-Zaidi’s action largely on the basis that it shows a “lack of respect for the office of the Presidency of the United States”. But the “office of the Presidency” deserves no respect in the abstract. It is a job. Perhaps it is the most important job in the world. But the respect shown to the person who holds it is contingent upon – or should be contingent upon – the manner in which that person carries out the responsibilities of the office. If the office is abused, then the abuser deserves no respect for merely holding the office.

I heard a mighty powerful speech today, by U.S. Representative Elijah Cummings (D-MD), which touched on the inappropriateness of showing respect for “offices”. Cummings spoke of the time when he rushed to the hospital to see his dying father. By the time he arrived, his father was dead. Grief-stricken, Cummings asked to see the body, but he was brushed away by hospital staff – told to go sit down. A few minutes later, a friend or acquaintance arrived and addressed him as “Congressman”. Overhearing that, the same hospital staff who had just recently brushed him away reversed course and made a big deal over him, escorting him to see the body of his deceased father. Cummings commented to the audience about how sad it is that some people are unable to see a person’s humanity until they find out that he’s “important”.

I’ll tell you what real respect for the office of the Presidency would be. Real respect for that office would be to remove from office a war criminal who had repeatedly abused his office. By failing to do that, the U.S. House of Representatives demonstrated a lot more disrespect for the office of the Presidency and its obligations than did al-Zaidi.

Indeed, the founding document of our nation said as much by noting that it is the duty of a people to throw off and replace abusive governments. And our Founding Fathers further made that point by meticulously trying to balance the power of the chief executive and by providing a peaceable means for his impeachment and removal from office.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
auntsue Donating Member (169 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. Awesome
I feel like I've just been to school ! You did a great job drawing the parallels - I agree with what you said - was aware of most of it but we all need to be reminded. I can't believe no one in Washington has the cojones to initiate impeachment or prosecution - maybe some one can haul the perpetrator and his cronies in front of an international court
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 09:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. Thank you -- It's very sad, isn't it?
I'm so disappointed that the Democratic House didn't initiate impeachment hearings.

Welcome to DU auntsue :toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jimshoes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
2. It is not often when an ordinary person gets to
make such a statement, such as it was, to someone who for the most part is sequestered from the ordinary folk as is this soon to be ex-president is. And a powerful statement it was too. Perhaps it's a good thing that bush will have a wall of protection surrounding him from a world full of other ordinary folks who would like to give bush a sampling of their own feelings of his years in office. And if this cabal cared enough about what people thought of them that they have undertaken a rehabilitation tour with roughly 40 days left in their miserable administration, perhaps they should not have governed like they were going to be in power forever. But I guess they are cursed to be the richest most miserable shitheads that ever lived. Our stupid president gets a shoe thrown at him. How's that for a fuckin' legacy?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. My biggest disappointment
is that our Congress has not seen fit to hold the war criminals accountable for their crimes. They don't even have to get violent about it, or even throw shoes. All they have to do is show respect for the rule of law in our country, as they were elected to do.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
anonymous171 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
3. You had me up until you brought up McKinney.
:crazy:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
12. What do you have against McKinney?
I heard that she not too long ago said some wierd things, but I can't remember what they are now.

But even so, I think I'll always admire her for the way she stood up against Bush, even if she goes insane now.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
16. Just knew there would be at least one
...just love the taste of koolade in the morning.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 09:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. Instead of promoting a Scientology movie ...
... why not mention Sofie?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofie_Scholl

And the other members of the White Rose Society?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-17-08 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. That's a very good one too.
I'm sure there are hundreds or thousands of good examples.

When I wrote the von Stauffenberg example I didn't know about the movie. I included it rather than some other things because I know more about it than a lot of other good examples, since I've read some pretty good accounts of it. It's a fascinating read -- no wonder they're making a movie of it.

You're not saying that the Tom Cruise movie has anything to do with Scientology, are you?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. You're kidding with the question, right? n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. No, I'm not.
I know almost nothing about that movie.

As far as I'm aware, the German army officers who plotted to kill Hitler had nothing to do with Scientology. I don't believe that the Scientology cult was even established until the early 1950s.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #10
22. Opps, my bad ...
... I was talking about the movie.

Which is produced by United Artists, which was purchased by Cruise, who is a $cientologist.

$cientology is a pyramid scheme.

Therefore, all money going to the movie funds the cult.

Also, if my memory serves, the cult loves to try to co-opt the Holocaust for their benefit.

Oh, yes, here's a link to one guy's tour of the cult's "museum" http://www.catsandbeer.com/science/fun-at-the-church-of-scientologys-psychiatry-an-industry-of-death-museum

And two more sources about $cientology's uninformed paranoia about science http://www.lacitybeat.com/cms/story/detail/?id=3137&IssueNum=136 and http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6650545.stm

Enjoy.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. As I said
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 07:11 PM by Time for change
I didn't even know about the movie when I wrote the post.

And if I did know about it, I wouldn't have known that United Artists was purchased by Cruise or that the money would go to Scientology.

I read a book on it many years ago, and it was the stupidest book I ever read. So I never paid any attention to it since then.

Anyhow, I don't see the point of arguing whether Sophie or Stauffenberg were more courageous. They were both incredibly courageous. How can we decide which one was more so?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Was Risky Business a Scientology movie too?
I don't have a whole lot of respect for Tom Cruise, but I don't know if it's fair to associate every movie he's in with Scientology.

I saw a National Geographic special last night on assassination attempts on Hitler and they focused a lot on Stauffenberg. It's certainly an interesting story and one that might have changed the course of history. I think he is a hero who should be lauded.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Not sure if he was in the cult back then.
But, now that he is in the cult any money he gets in residuals probably goes right to the cult.

"It's certainly an interesting story ..."


And so is Scholl's (and all the members of The White Rose).

Don't know if you've seen Downfall, the recent movie about Hitler's last days made by Germans (!), but it opens and closes with documentary footage of a little old German frau named http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traudl_Junge">Traudl Junge, who talks about her experience as Hitler's personal secretary.

At the end of the movie, they include her looking back,
All these horrors I've heard of during the Nurnberg process, these six million Jews, other thinking people or people of another race, who perished. That shocked me deeply. But I hadn't made the connection with my past. I assured myself with the thought of not being personally guilty. And that I didn't know anything about the enormous scale of it. But one day I walked by a memorial plate of Sophie Scholl in the Franz-Joseph-Strasse. I saw that she was about my age and she was executed in the same year I came to Hitler. And at that moment I actually realised that a young age isn't an excuse. And that it might have been possible to get to know things.

--IMDb


Heroism, isn't just the pomp and circumstance of gunfire and explosions. It can also be the quiet heroism that the White Rose Society students showed.

BTW, two movies about famous Germans that were not made since http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/1651173.stm">Rove traveled to Hollywood to speak with the gatekeepers were:
* Jodie Foster's movie about Leni Riefenstahl
* and Christina Ricci's movie about Sofie Scholl

(There are probably more, but if they weren't made, how would I know? LOL)

I'm not saying that Riefenstahl was a hero, but I wonder what it is about Christina Ricci that would stop her from getting a movie made? Or Jodie Foster for that matter?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:06 AM
Response to Original message
6. The Natural Law that is broken by those who espouse complete support of our President
Is that in "worshipping" a man like George Bush, they can ignore the destruction of our nation's reputation abroad; they can ignore the destruction of our nation's need for reasonable, not foolish, military struggles; they can be overly optimistic about economic bubbles, and ignore the common sense measures, such as local job creation and tariffs, but instead utterly devastate our national economy, etc.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 07:02 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. And the lack of a platform for airing grievances makes people desperate
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 07:25 AM by SoCalDem
to "make a statement" with whatever's at hand:

SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Fri Apr-01-05 08:33 AM


The Egg, Pie, and Salad Dressing Rebellion..


Today on Washington Journal, a teensy bit of the Ann Coulter incident was mentioned and then a bit about the salad dressing incident with pat Buchanan. Of course Brian Lamb chuckled a bit when he reported it, and seemed truly confused as to why this is happening.
People make a long distance call to C-Span, sometimes dialing for hours....get through..and if they are not disconnected duing the interminable wait, they are given a scant 30-45 SECONDS to try to make their point. Of course if there is a "guest", the guest always gets the oppportunity to totally ignore the comments or just re-spin their propaganda.

What Brian does not understand is this:

When ordinary people are DENIED their opportunity to set the record straight, and are finally tired of hearing propaganda, they will resort to extremes, just to make a point. We rarely see "the pundits" squirting salad dressing or tossing the occasional egg. The reason they don't have to is that they have virtually unlimited air time, and have the capability to "silence" any and all "guests" who dare to disagree with them.

The president and his minions travel the US on OUR dime, and then speak before hand-picked audiences. If a detractor manages to get inside, and has the courage to say his/her piece, they are unceremoniously escorted OUT, and possibly arrested. The next time they try to fly, they might find out there are further ramifications too..

A person like Coulter is paid 10s of thousands of dollars to spew hatred, and then "deputizes" burly republican students to "throw the dissenters out". This is incitement to violence, pure and simple, and she's being paid by a university that is supported by ALL our tax dollars, democrats and republicans.

Pat Buchanan may have every right to say his xenophobic "piece", but he should expect to hear some opposition when he ventures outside his little media cocoon. Salad Dressing is actually quite inventive when you consider that lettuce pickers tend NOT to be blond, blue-eyed wasps.


When a Vice president or president "visits" a town, it should not be unusual for the general public to take notice and want to participate in some way. Tossing an egg at a vehicle that would probably fare well in a nuclear blast, is not a threat..especially when it's tossed by an adolescent girl.

None of these bold "attacks" are sophisticated or even original, but it's a symptom of just how frustrated half (or more) of the nation has become. It's kind of like a water balloon.. Squeeze one part of it, and the water will just go to the other side, but if you twist it and poke it and stomp on it, the water balloon will eventually burst.

It is ironic though, that these pranks are widely reported, when millions of people in the streets marching, is not..

Civil disobedience is a long-held tenet of our country and "first amendment zones", hermetically sealed leaders and storm-troopers lining the streets are starting to bring out the "kid" in all of us..

We must be careful though... There was a girl who put a flower in a gun barrel...and then 4 students died.. (Kent State)


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lutherj Donating Member (788 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:12 AM
Response to Original message
8. Sic semper tyranus!
Two shoes. One! Two!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Commie Pinko Dirtbag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:09 AM
Response to Original message
13. Um, okay, but I see the graph for y=1/x. -nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
14. You're comparing him to WASHINGTON?!?
:rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I'm saying that the principle is very similar
Edited on Thu Dec-18-08 12:08 PM by Time for change
They were both rebelling against tyranny.


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. What if a Virginia slave threw his shoes (if he had any) at Washington?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. He was mad and he threw a fit!
Rebelling against tyrrany my ass! He got mad! I don't blame him one bit, but making him out to be Leaer Of The Revolution is laughable!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. What he did resulted in great risk to his physical safety
Possibly the risk he took was even greater than the risk that Washington took. He's probably already been tortured, and he may have to spend several years in jail.

I'll bet he doesn't think it's so funny, like you do.

Would you have the courage to do what he did?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Really...the "risk" he took was an act of anger.
Do you really think he planned this out as if it were an assassination attempt? It is absolutely absurd to suggest that a man throwing his shoes at Bush is even more threatening than a man leading a successful revolutionary army! That is beyond laughable! What he did didn't take any more courage that a guy who throws a punch at a cop when he gets pissed off.

So, to sum up - I don't think what he did is funny; I think you're trying to make him out to be the man Showing The Way For His Country is hysterical though!

Let me know when you post a thread comparing the guy who invented PopRocks to Einstein.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. You really don't get it at all
In fact, you're pretty dense.

You put words in my mouth. Nowhere did I suggest that he is as threatening as Washington -- or that he was physically threatening at all. What he did was symbolic -- like what Rosa Parks did. But you probably didn't even read that far. You'd probably have thought that what she did was funny too.

What he did got a lot of publicity, and it has helped in showing the world what Iraqis really think of George Bush's "liberation".



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. And by the way:
http://www.gmanews.tv/story/139800/Shoe-thrower-to-appear-before-Iraqi-judge

An investigative judge will review the evidence and decide whether al-Zeidi should stand trial — a process that could take months. Iraq officials have recommended charging him with insulting a foreign leader, a charge which carries a maximum sentence of two years imprisonment or a small fine.

Maximum 2 years in jail would be harsh, but it certainly is a far cry from the rest of his life in jail or the torture you are so certain he's getting. And he might get away with a small fine. Why, it's almost comparable to what he would get here.

I think Washington probably would have gotten a little more than a small fine.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-18-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Washington wasn't alone
He had an army to work with. And he didn't get tortured like al-Zaidi did.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Apr 29th 2024, 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC