Illegal Aliens: Discuss

[anigbrowl]

I have a point of view but I don't want to set it off as an argument. I'm surprised that this issue appears so rarely on DU, actually.

throw 'em out? Amnesty? Driving licenses? Consider: illegal aliens cost the country quite a lot of money, though nobody knows quite how much. Then again, they pay a surprisingly high amount of taxes though again exact figures are scarce. Raes of increase have stabilized. Economic hard times tends to breed nationalism; meanwhile many who ar here aren't willing to leave because it's so dammn hard to get back in illegally, or to immigrate legally for that matter. Most illegal aliens are from Central and South America, but also there's Europeans, Asians, Africans and so on.

[lapfog_1]

1. Shall we debate their existince... sort of like real Aliens?

Or what? Would be nice to have a starting point.

[anigbrowl]

2. Good point. OP Amended.

[hunter]

3. I think we should deport Christians.

Jesus was not an American! Christians should all pack up their bags and go back to their Holy Land.

Round them up in their churches on Christmas day and pack 'em into every boat and airplane we can get.

If their God had wanted them in America, He would've told them about it in their Bible.

[qwlauren35]

4. Why do they cost us so much?

How much of what they cost us is from trying to keep them out?

I want them identified and put on a long-slow path to naturalization that includes mandatory English. I want them deported for crimes. I want them deported for any abuse of social services.

But even more than that, I want the companies that knowingly hire them to be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. And yet... while it sounds good in theory, I'm not sure who might be hurt by this approach.

Sometimes it seems as though trying to prosecute those who are the most slimy and despicable ends up hurting a lot of undeserving people. I don't have a solution for that - I'm not sure there is one.

[Joe the Liberal]

5. Im surprised that it hardly comes up on DU too but.....

It hardly comes up at all anywhere anymore, in the debates with McCain and Obama I don't recall either of them talk about it. I think there is just more important things to worry about right now.

[qwlauren35]

8. And yet, I have no doubt that illegal aliens factor in to the nation's economy

And our economic problems.

I also am very, very surprised that it wasn't discussed during the campaign. But I think it was for the best. Drawing attention to illegal aliens at a time when the average citizen is struggling financially would have just pissed people off.

[charlie]

9. It wasn't discussed

because Republicans floated it as a trial issue the last two years and didn't get the results they wanted. It got the mouthbreathers in their rank and file worked up nicely, but they also got pushback from Latinos that unnerved them.

[Chipster]

6. On Illegal Immigration - It Depends

The discussion depends on how the issue is framed, whether it's framed as a "human rights" issue or a "law and order" issue.

Neither is correct.

Follow the money. Who benefits? Corporations who exploit "undocumented" workers by paying substandard wages for jobs "Americans won't do."

The fascists benefit.

Never mind that the border wars are raging because of the drug wars, with over 4,000 deaths now and spilling over the borders into the US. Never mind the unknown costs for social services to illegal immigrants: education, health care, welfare, crime, air tickets home (about $700), funerals, and more.

That's all corporate welfare to boost corporate profits as immigrants' native nations reduce their own costs to provide for their citizens.

Consider emigrating to Mexico legally and investigate what are the legal financial requirements and subsequent property restrictions.

Illegal immigrants got here, and they will get home when the nation's immigration laws are enforced.

The alternative is to undermine the rule of law and endorse anarchy - because it promotes corporate welfare.

[backscatter712]

7. It helps to understand the business model...

1. Create a class of illegal people, and hang the threat of jail & deportation over their heads at all times.

2. Deny these illegal people access to legitimate jobs, and force them into "illegal" jobs (with ICE and INS conveniently looking the other way) which have low wages and no benefits.

3. Then make legal citizens with normal jobs compete against the illegal workers, lower their wages and remove their benefits - under threat of firing them and replacing them with illegal people.

4. Profit and BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

So you want my opinion of what we should do? We should do two things.

1. Make sure people victimized by the above business model are treated humanely, especially undocumented workers, but also US citizens who've also been screwed.

2. Break the above business model.

That implies that we should have some revision to immigration law. The undocumented workers did enter the U.S. illegally, but rather than treat them as illegal people crack their skulls, break their families, deport them, etc. we should allow them to become legal by paying a fine (no, I don't support letting them skate scott-free, but I believe that the punishment should be fair, meaning a few hundred dollars of fine, payable on an installment plan.) Assuming they pay the fine and keep their noses clean, give them a green card, put them in the back of the line for citizenship if they want citizenship, welcome to America.

Also, we should be cracking down hard on businesses that hire undocumented workers. As in shutting those businesses down entirely and throwing their management in prison. No more exploitation.

One of the purposes is to make sure U.S. citizens and immigrant workers are on the same level, and can compete fairly. That way, businesses can't use illegal workers to drag down wages of citizens.

[EFerrari]

10. They're leaving as the jobs have dried up and because it's been a while

since we really messed with Latin America so things are better there.

They also contribute more than they take from the economy. They have probably been keeping Social Security afloat. Wave good-bye because we'll miss the dough.

[angryfirelord]

11. Simplify citizenship

It's ridiculous how long it takes for someone to get citizenship in the US. I used to know a couple of foreign exchange students that were applying for dual-citizenship and even after 180 days they STILL had to wait. Ideally, it should take about a week at the most and shouldn't cost anything to apply. That way, we can get these people to become more visible and it prevents businesses from hiring illegals to cheap out on wages.

[RetiredTrotskyite]

12. I Think You are thinking of Legal Alien Status

Citizenship should take several years...they want to be American let them take the path to citizenship that millions of others have,

[notesdev]

13. Send them home

I worked in an immigration law firm for a number of years, helping people who came here legally to get their employment authorization, green cards, citizenship. Many of the legal immigrants wait patiently, sometimes for a decade or more, paying thousands of dollars in order to become Americans. You couldn't insult these people more than to send those who came here illegally to the head of the line.

As far as actual Americans go, illegal aliens consume our resources, take our jobs and lower our wages. Some people like to talk about taxes paid by these people, but the truth is that those taxes come nowhere close to their consumption. In my state of Virginia, we spend more on education for the children of illegal aliens alone (high $300s mil figure) than the entirety of what they contribute to the tax base (low $300s mil figure). And government money is only part of the overall cost; if you have a car, look at your insurance bill. See that "uninsured driver" charge? I bet you won't have too much trouble figuring out who most of the uninsured drivers that you're covering turn out to be. (For me, it is a full quarter of the overall cost of my insurance!)

And if you care about the people on the bottom of the ladder, then you cannot help but to see that the poorest Americans are hurt the most by the masses of imported low-skilled and unskilled laborers who push them out of the job market. Young Americans are hurt too, as they are displaced by adult aliens willing to work for the wages of a starter job.

Do you hope for universal healthcare? Well, you can forget it, if you don't solve the alien problem first. Hospitals all over the country are closing due to being used as free clinics by non-paying aliens. That medical bill you're struggling with? A good chunk of what you're paying for is to cover the costs of people who don't pay, and the hospitals need to do that in order to stay open.

When we had an apparently roaring economy we had the luxury of ignoring the problem. But now we don't. Our people need the resources our government has, to serve the needs of Americans. Foreigners need to take a back seat to the primary responsibility of government, to ensure the welfare of our own people.

[Gwendolyn]

15. You make an extremely good point about healthcare.

Your other points are valid too of course, but most people never factor in healthcare.

[Dark]

14. I really don't care either way. I speak spanish, so I win if they stay. And if they go home,

I get more jobs. (Yes, i know it's more complicated. But I don't care that much.)

Still, if you want to get rid of them, target the businesses hiring them. That's the only way.

[mmonk]

16. I remember seeing a tally between costs and what illegal aliens

bring to the local economy here where I live. It was a plus $9 billion to the local economy. I think the driver to the more draconian approaches being implemented is racism, fear and xenophobia. But that's just me.