Hartmann: Choice of Rick Warren may open Warren's supporters' minds & hearts to Obama

[Doctor_J]

Calls the choice "politically brilliant"

Hmm....

[tabatha]

1. Yes, it is.

[Luminous Animal]

2. While breaking the hearts

of many of those who worked their asses off to get him elected.

[knowbody0]

3. this morning I get it

it's uncomfortable, but I get it.

[Doctor_J]

8. I am coming to grips with it too

I still like & trust Obama & think he will get the country back where it should be. So I am not going to complain about the appearance of every tree while the forest is being repopulated.

[Sal Minella]

11. Same here. Am vaguely embarrassed it took me so long.

[musette_sf]

26. not me

it bothers me worse today than yesterday. all the joy of election night is now gone for me.

[EFerrari]

29. This morning I'm more nauseaous, if anything.

And especially when I read the rationalization Obama's people put out.

[tsuki]

33. It is either a stupid move, or one of the most cynical political ploys I've

seen.

[EFerrari]

35. Obama is not stupid, is he? n/t

[Luminous Animal]

4. I think John Aravosis says it best...

Great, then where are the racists, Mr. Obama? We don't see you embracing too many of them in the name of learning to agree to disagree. Or does your desire to create a new "atmosphere," and reach out to our enemies, stop when it's your own people, your own children, you'd be betraying? Funny how you only reach across the aisle when it's someone else's family getting the shaft.

http://www.americablog.com/2008/12/obama-we-have-to-be-able-to-agree-to.html

[EFerrari]

9. That is very well said. n/t

[arthritisR_US]

27. excellent quote, thnx!! :-) n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

49. Well stated.

[Gormy Cuss]

5. And it may not.

I doubt that many who follow Warren will have even the slightest change of heart about Obama.

It may be politically brilliant (time will tell) but without doubt it will elevate the name recognition of Warren and fill his coffers with more purpose-driven book sales.

[UnrepentantUnitarian]

18. Right...just like the NeoCons are so receptive to a change

of heart. No, to most of these folks it's a hardened mindset, and it'll take a lot more than Barack Obama to change that.

[KittyWampus]

22. Actually, a few arch-NeoCons have changed their mindset. Publicly.

[EFerrari]

6. Yes, I hear the freepers are already melting into little freep puddles.

[UnrepentantUnitarian]

19. Didn't Neville Chamberlain try this? How'd that work out again?

[KittyWampus]

23. Your solution is to be a perpetual reactionary screamer then? Misguided people don't change

by having others yelling "bigot" at them.

We have to constantly do the hard work of reaching out.

Although I understand that DU is a valuable place to voice anger and frustration.

[EFerrari]

24. Reaching out, my @ss. Let's see Obama reach out to the John Birch Society

with the same alacrity.

[tsuki]

52. Ditto, the KKK. nt

[peace frog]

7. *May* being the operative word

Yes, it *may* open some of his supporters' minds and hearts but will harden many, many others of different mindset against him. "Politically brilliant" ONLY if it works, and so far we have seen ample evidence ONLY of the latter, not the former.

[SidDithers]

10. Who else gets thrown under the bus...

in the rush to secure the bigot vote?

Sid

[Bodhi BloodWave]

60. Well, to me many seem more eager to toss Obama under the buss then him tossing people there n/t

[lostnotforgotten]

12. I Absolutely Detest What Warren Stands For And The Harm That His Ilk Have Done To This Country

I am slowly beginning to detest President elect Obama as well.

This is not an auspicious start to his presidency.

[hlthe2b]

13. I thought Liberal/Progressives were able to see complexities...

shades of gray.... I don't criticize your feelings on the issue, just the "black/white" "good-evil" dichotomy. If Warren is evil, Bush-Cheney are certainly evil, then can you really lump PE Obama in with them at well?

I know it is hard, but I do think we are going to have to strap in and be prepared the next four years for both major highs and a few major lows in terms of Obama's decisions. There is a big picture that we have to try to perceive.

[ROakes1019]

15. reaching

Obama never said he supported gay marriage; he supports civil unions. Yet, he's having Lowry, who does support gay marriage. Where is the renowned liberal tolerance? That's one thing I like most about being a liberal--we can see complexities.

[lostnotforgotten]

16. PE Obama Is Showing Very Poor Judgment Embracing Evil

By definition evil is a "black and white" proposition.

Case closed!

[hlthe2b]

17. I detest his decision... but, I hardly think Obama is Evil

[Odin2005]

47. If you beleive that you are about as mentally mature as most Freepers.

n/t.

[lostnotforgotten]

57. Another DU Apologist Speaks - Speak On

eom

[jonnyblitz]

67. project much? nt

[DonEBrook]

41. So if he makes boneheaded decisions only...say...30% of the time,

that's okay? 40%? 50? Where's the cutoff?

[hlthe2b]

54. I'd say that's up to each of us to decide...

But, the absolutists among us, seem to have the threshold set somewhere around 1%...

[Kitsune]

14. Who is he fucking kidding?

The only way these psychos will change their minds is if they realize they've bought into a cult and GET OUT.

Allowing Rick Warren to taint the inauguration for all the people who were excited about it is not going to do that.

[judasdisney]

39. Christianists already believe Obama is "The Antichrist"

"Open minds" only works on sane people

[David Zephyr]

20. Hartmann should stick to peddling gold on the radio and shut up about GLBT issues.

What a crock of shit.

[T Wolf]

21. Oh, BULLSHIT. Hatred and bigotry (as a pair) is an emotional, faith-based" belief that CANNOT be

ameliorated by a logical discussion.

No one who buys into believing that others, by virtue (ironic, huh?) of an innate status, are inferior and should be discriminated against can be convinced that their belief is wrong.

As many have pointed out, the mere presence of Warren on the platform giving the opening prayer is validation of their bigotry. The only thing it gives them is the hope that the new president, who they do not trust, might actually come around to their way of "thinking."

[musette_sf]

25. i was afraid that Thom would say that

i was thinking about this last night, "WWTHD".

i adore Thom and respect him, but he's wrong on this one. Thom is a very progressive Christian. i suspect he's in a "turn the other cheek" mode, which i grudgingly respect simply because of who he is. but i can't go there any more.

[EFerrari]

28. Eventually, you run out of cheeks. n/t

[supernova]

30. I hope this is true

It's very easy to hate or just plain old be dismissive, yes in a legal sense, of an anonymous group of people whom (you think) you've never met, had to relate to as individuals.

It's not so easy to hate them after you meet an individual who lives a life different from yours.

[Johonny]

31. most likely won't

just saying if two losing war, a total collapse of the American society doesn't bring you to listen to the other political side chances are a token gesture to a pasture you might not give a crap about is unlikely to.

[Bill McBlueState]

32. Well, this is a prediction

And like other predictions, we'll be able to test it with evidence in the future. Either there will be reports of Warren fans changing from anti-Obama to pro-Obama, or there won't.

I will be surprised if this prediction turns out to be correct on any politically significant level.

[DonEBrook]

34. That is the most pure unadulterated horse shit I have read in years.

...

[fla nocount]

36. Pretzel logic. n/t

[tilsammans]

37. Just heard Thom's views . . .

He makes some very strong points that make sense.

I'm gonna ponder on this one a bit.

[judasdisney]

38. Warren will throw Obama under the bus in a flat second

[frylock]

40. right after the monkeys fly outta your ass

[DS1]

42. Off with his head!

I AM NOT SATISFIED!

:eyes:

[Irishonly]

43. I would be surprised if it did

President elect Obama can and will ask or appoint people I don't agree with. Warren is a big one. There are many ministers in this country but he chose Warren. It doesn't mean I have to like it. It doesn't mean I have to look at it as a brilliant political move. It doesn't mean the Obama will lose any sleep over my disdain for his choice but I did write and tell him I thought it was a slap in the face to a group of his supporters.

[JohnnieGordon]

44. Now I have another reason not to listen to Hartmann, aside from his tediously boring style

[OwnedByFerrets]

45. One of the VERY FEW times that I totally disagree with Thom.

[Odin2005]

46. Thom gets it, as usual! Look at how much the Freepers are bitching.

Too bad some would rather fan the flames of culture war, which does nothing but boost turnout among the fundies, then to the politically sane thing and try to neutralize the political influence of said fundies. THAT is how you work on getting rid of bigotry.

[EFerrari]

55. The "culture war" is nothing less than socially sanctioned discrimination

and reaching out to authoritarians is usually seen as a sign of surrender.

PSA: There are not two equally valid cultures here in America at war with each other. There is civil society and there is a minority of people who think they should control women, beat up gays and censor free speech. That's not "culture". That's bigotry looking for an acceptable frame.

You get rid of bigotry by upholding the Constitution and by not giving it social cover, not by honoring bigots on a national stage.

Obama should know better on both scores. Or, he should know how callow his argument sounds to anyone with access to their frontal lobes.

[Odin2005]

63. You just proved my point.

The other side thinks exactly the same thing, that they are "right" and our side is nothing but "Satanic influence", "Cultural Marxism" or some such BS. Different beliefs, same culture-war BS mindset, both sides demonizing the other side.

If our side is better then them then why are some on our side ACTING LIKE THEM?

[EFerrari]

65. No. I just layed out the case for the Constitution.

That you mistake it for some Fox News "both sides are equal" mendacity is your problem.

[Odin2005]

73. I never said both sides are equal.

I said if we are better then them then we should be acting better then them.

[EFerrari]

77. When was the last time any of us went on teevee and tried to scare the crap

out of people by saying the right wing would attack their children?

When was the last time any of us put up ads saying, those bad fundies, they're going to censor your minister!

Give me a break. We don't act like them. It's not wrong to want to distance yourself from the kind of corruption that makes its living from the ignorance and fear of others. How many liberals do you know who do that? None, I suspect.

There is nothing, nada, wrong with objecting to this man being showcased at the Inaugural. He's actively causing harm to many people and he's enriching himself in the process. There is nothing wrong with objecting to him and in fact, I hope more people of conscience take time out from their holiday to do that.

[BeFree]

69. Exactly

The two sides are so similar in their venom that it's just the words that are different.
It's like both sides want the war to continue. Obama wants to end the war, and if he gets a little help, he will. We will.

[Odin2005]

74. Yes We Can. Yes We Will.

[EFerrari]

76. .And more bullshit.

The "culture wars" is just spin for bigotry looking for a home.

Now, tell me the fair and balanced other side. You can't. There isn't one.

And Obama is not looking to end anything. He's looking to shore up his support. He's a politician, not your daddy.

ETA: Okay, that was over the top. Sorry.

[BeFree]

78. Yes, your title was correct

You just issued more bullshit, and that's about all that was right about your post.

[mmonk]

48. Belief systems are very hard to change, especially those

they have been trained to think belong to god.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

50. That's not gonna happen.

All it will do is alienate the LGBT community.

[Maven]

51. Right and as soon as Obama does anything pro-gay, those minds will close again.

So why would Obama do anything pro-gay?

Wouldn't want to lose all the converts.

[jpak]

53. LOL!!!!1111

That's the funniest (not) thing I have heard in a long time.

When did Hartmann change his name to Pollyanna?

[PVnRT]

56. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Funniest thing I've heard all day. Hartmann is a comedic genius!

[SoCalDem]

58. Unlikely..

Closed-minded zealots will see it as a capitulation..and nothing more..

[depakid]

59. Wishful (and naive) thinking

Hartmann apparently doesn't understand the nature of fundamentalism-

[Bodhi BloodWave]

61. i guess atleast a number of GLBT people here on DU seems quite familiar with it going by their posts

It doesn't seem to be restricted to the religious

[BeFree]

71. Fundie Gays?

By jove, I think you've got it!

On edit: yep, we've got the fundie gays who think everyone should be gay and the fundie religios who think everyone should not be gay.

[senaca]

62. You're right. I bet the biggest fight in Congress is going to be over

Court appointees. The evangelical base is going to demand that no one get in who is pro choice. This is where it will get interesting. Will Dobson and the like still have enough of a stranglehold on the Repub. party or will fiscal conservatives take the reigns? Will the gang of 14 do what they did for Bush and help Obama get justices who he wants through by breaking the fillibuster, or were their actions reflective of getting more conservative justices through? Who knows until it happens. The inauguration is not going to sway anyone who votes for this one issue.

[depakid]

70. "Will the gang of 14 do what they did for Bush...."

Fortunately, we won't need quite that many- though I do expect some Democratic defections both on this and many other issues.

Like most extremists over the course of history, fundamentalists aren't interested in compromise, and cannot be appeased.

Krugman wrote about this phenomena in his book The Great Unravelling, oddly enough using Henry Kissinger's doctrinal thesis to expound on the point.

Essentially, it works like this:

....it's the story about how confronted with people with some power, domestic or foreign, that really doesn't play by the rules, most people just can't admit to themselves that this is really happening.

They keep on imagining that, "Oh, you know, they have limited goals. When they make these radical pronouncements that's just tactical and we can appease them a little bit by giving them some of what they want. And eventually we'll all be able to sit down like reasonable men and work it out."

Then at a certain point you realize, "My God, we've given everything away that makes system work. We've given away everything we counted on."

And that's basically the story of what's happened with the Right in the United States. And it's still happening.

http://www.liberaloasis.com/krugman.htm

[EndElectoral]

64. Hartman's wrong. Warren's supporters will never warm to Obama, nor shoudl we want them

Obama will lose thousands of gay voters over this more than he'll get for the one Warren voter.

[Orsino]

66. Hartman's right, but you might be, too.

Spotlighting an anti-gay pastor will broaden Obama's appeal among the ignorant. However, it's lessened my respect for the President-Elect and will cost him other support.

[ColbertWatcher]

68. Or not.

The problem with that brand of Christer is they do not need evidence to substantiate their beliefs.

The way they will see it is: we're converting the Muslin.

Period.

[Greyhound]

72. I rarely disagree with Thom, in fact, I can't remember another time.

I heard him this morning and his logic is sound except for his failure to account for the intractable bigotry of the followers of this madness.

[pleah]

75. Maybe, when hell freezes over.

Hahahaha! :rofl: Well, at least I got a good laugh out of that one.