GPS chips in Firearms; the time is now

[newmac]

Every manufactured gun should have a GPS chip forged into the metal; and old firearms retrofitted; cops and citizens can then track the ID and location and legality of any firearm. This is the solution to the gun issue. Expect the NRA to fight it tooth and nail; but the time is now



http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2006/01/12/firearms_tracking_device_urged?mode=PF

[onehandle]

1. Complicated and unlikely, but I'd love to see it happen. nt

[Raskolnik]

43. How about a GPS chip in every copy of the Koran as part of the War on Terror?

Why not?

[SteppingRazor]

2. Eh. It's a pretty ugly slippery slope.

I mean, I see what the obvious advantages are, but if the gov't can track a person's guns with a GPS device, well, why not the person him or herself? Tracking devices installed in firearms begin a road toward the end of privacy rights.

[Xithras]

3. Which would accomplish what exactly?

GPS tracking requires that the tracked device emit a constant radio signal, ergo the device has to have its batteries regularly recharged or replaced. All a criminal would need to do is let the battery go dead...or just pop the device off with a screwdriver.

So you'd be able to track all of the legal firearms sitting in peoples closets, and none of the firearms actually used in crimes.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

26. GPS doesn't work inside a closet.

It doesn't work indoors at all in my experience. And it's hit or miss in a lot of urban areas depending on the quality of the antenna, height of buildings, quality of the satellite lock-on, etc. Doesn't really seem feasible.

[Taverner]

4. Perhaps - but wouldn't a chip be just as easy to remove as a serial number?

Chances are the only people who would still keep their GPS chips in would be law abiding gun owners

[Xithras]

7. Truthfully, there's no such thing as a GPS tracking "chip" anyway.

The smallest GPS tracking devices I've seen are about the size of a box of cigarettes.

[Taverner]

9. True, but they are getting smaller all the time

But the antenna is the tricky part - you either need a long enough antenna, or a case large enough to run it through

Perhaps if the whole gun was an antenna...which would make retrofitting tricky

And then there's still the problem with criminals removing their GPS's

[benEzra]

81. The really tricky part is power.

How long do the batteries in your cell phone last? How are you going to power something comparable for DECADES without recharging?

GPS tracking devices on cars work because cars have HUGE batteries that are fully recharged every time the car is used, using power generated by onboard fuel that is continually replenished. I don't know what planet the guy in the OP is from, but none of my guns have alternators or fusion cells.

Even if made the imaginary gun GPS to run on magic pixie dust, deactivating it would be as simple as unloading the gun and putting it in a microwave for a few seconds to destroy the electronics. Yes, GPS requires an antenna, making it extremely vulnerable to electromagnetic fields. You wouldn't even have to disassemble it.

And it's a said sign of the state of journalism in this country that the Boston Globe didn't question any of the idiocy.

[Renew Deal]

8. This suggestion is most offensive to law abiding gun owners.

GPS/RFC chips in guns that report to the government is a major abridgment of freedom.

[Taverner]

12. It would be, but it's completely unfeasible too

Just like registration numbers and gun fingerprints (out of the three, the fingerprint seems the most logical for any kind of database, and even that can be altered.)

Add to the fact that anyone can make a gun or a bullet if they have the right tools

[yodoobo]

47. All gun owners are law abiding

until they aren't and accidently or intentionally kill someone.

Tens of thousands of guns are stolen everyday from law abiding gun owners.

I fully support tracking of these terrible things, but clearly we don't have an effective technology to do this. Yet.

[benEzra]

82. Hardly.

In Chicago, around 90% of murders were committed by people with prior arrest records. And the majority of criminal homicides are committed by people who can't legally so much as touch a gun, or a single round of ammunition, due to prior convictions and adjudications.

http://egov.cityofchicago.org/webportal/COCWebPortal/COC_EDITORIAL/June08CrimeStats.pdf

The lawful and responsible are a much more convenient target to hate, though. Carry on...

[uncle ray]

86. what an absurd statement.

tens of thousands of guns stolen every day?

i know it would be pointless to ask for a link for such a hyperbolic statement.

[jody]

5. Absolutely brilliant and of course criminals will beat a path to the nearest police station to

register their firearms.

Government should also require every male to provide a DNA sample for a national data bank.

That would quickly solve most rape cases.

[Renew Deal]

6. This is going to go well.

:popcorn:

I object this this and I'm no member of the NRA. I don't want big brother in my life. That would be a severe intrusion.

[madokie]

10. We don't need any of that

what we need to do is educate more so that there would be more understanding among us rather than hatred. imo

Education is the secret.

[EstimatedProphet]

35. NOOOO!!!! How dare you say that education could solve the gun problem?!?

THE ONLY ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION is to remove all guns, all historical references to guns, and all thoughts of guns, from the entire nation!

Thank God someone else has posted that education and addressing our country's problems instead of simply pretending they aren't there and creating another ban on something might work!

[madokie]

41. Same as to solve the terrorism problem

you guessed it, education, us and them. If we would spend half the time and half the money on listening to what the bitch is and then proceed to fix that, no more reason for them to be mad, it takes the wind out of their sails. OTOH for every one killed there will be many more created. I'm surprised that this isn't the approach taken. stupid people do stupid things methinks

[guardian]

60. Like the education and harmony on DU?

[Greyhound]

11. Great idea,

That will make mine at least twice as valuable as I am forced to sell them to eat.

[aikoaiko]

13. GPS chip? Is this even possible? Doesn't it need a power source?

I'm skeptical that this isn't just grandstanding by a politician.

[Taverner]

14. Well its a hare brained scheme that's for sure

It will never work, and criminals will soon learn how to take the chip out

[greguganus]

34. Put a solar battery on the gun and require people to put it in the sunlight for 2 hours a day.

Problem solved! lol.

[petronius]

44. I'm thinking they need a really tiny turbine generator to go with it -

every time the gun is fired, some of the gas is redirected to spin the turbine and make electricity, recharging the battery! :silly:

[uncle ray]

87. tiny nukular reactors.

yes i know how to spell nuclear.

[Taverner]

80. ..."require people to put it in the sunlight for 2 hours a day..."

OK - so every one has to expose their gun to the sunlight???

Everyone who has a gun???

What kind of fascist shit is that???

[greguganus]

84. lol n/t

[yodoobo]

85. I suspect that would be counterproductive.

Can you imagine a scenario where gunnuts routinely put their guns on their window sills every day so they can get the required sunlight?

Would make it easier for thieves to window shop for their weapon of choice!

[Renew Deal]

16. It is possible but not feasible.

Batteries die. Signals don't travel well unobstructed. So a gun in a safe, closet, or even a house won't communicate. Probably as easy to remove as it is to install.

[TheWraith]

79. No, it's absolutely not possible.

Sure, you can build a GPS tracker for a gun. It'll be about the size of a pack of cigarettes if you want it to run for more than a few minutes. Oh, and it won't get a fix if it's inside most kinds of buildings. :eyes:

It's either grandstanding, or some guy who doesn't bother to know anything before opening his mouth.

[Nikki Stone1]

15. No,

not under any circumstances.

[infidel dog]

17. not likely

Great idea, not a chance of it happening. Realistically folks, we have to remember the ferocity with which the American Homo Erectus population protects its big rocks and clubs. And remember how badly we poor Cro-Mags are outnumbered, as well.

[wartrace]

18. How about a combo? One in every gun/one in every felon (restricted individual)?

The ones in the gun would not identify anything but the fact it is a gun. The one implanted in the restricted individual would report the name of that individual. If a gun chip & a felon chip are co located for more than a few minutes police could go and investigate/arrest the individual.

[greguganus]

36. How about chip in gun and chip in felon and when they make contact, the felon's head explodes! nt

[wartrace]

39. It should beep at least three times as a warning......

But you do have a valid crime fighting idea there.

[Ghost in the Machine]

19. Well, *that* is a stupid idea... n/t

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[deaniac21]

21. incredibly stupid

[krispos42]

22. Because thieves can't pull out batteries?

Or toss the (empty) gun in the microwave for 10 seconds to fry the chip?

And what else should have a GPS chip in it? What other piece of property that people own should have a GPS chip in it that makes it's location availble on-demand to any police department that wants it?


How about we just stick a GPS chip in the criminals instead, so we can track them 24/7?






Once again, I fail to understand how liberals, who rightfully get very upset when the right-wing government clamps down on the rights of citizens, such as Patiot Act, warrantless wiretapping, no-fly lists, media manipulation, domestic propoganda, videotaping protests, etc., all of sudden develop a blind spot when it comes to firearms-related topics.

[yodoobo]

23. GPS's don't work indoors

I'm with you though.

I would prefer a mandatory registration system, where the guns location must be registered at all times.

Taking it to the range? Thats fine. Get online and record the range address and the date you'll be there. Taking it cross country to go hunting. Once again no problem. Just record the route you'll take and location of hunting grounds.

The system could have a default "home" location, with the ability to record changes when you temporarily relocate it.

Combine that with random suprise inspections and heavy fines imprisonment for failing to maintain an accurate record of its location, and the system is even better than GPS.

I think that some sort of reasonable registration system will be a part of the next assault weapons bill.

[chrisa]

28. And also...

How about we all be required to input where we're going all day too, and tell the government where we're going out tonight so that they can more easily find terrorists?

Why are people so willing to throw their freedom away?

[DonEBrook]

29. How clever! And what if the guy on his way to stick up the local bank doesn't have internet acceess

How will he alert the authorities where he's heading.

(searching for a bonehead smilie)

[yodoobo]

45. clearly criminals won't follow the law

So this would be an addon charge, and a last chance in case the robbery charge don't "stick"

[Raskolnik]

42. I take back my evaluation of the OP. THIS is the dumbest thing I've seen posted in a while.

Please tell me that you're just having a laugh...

[Rebubula]

76. LOLWUT

"Combine that with random surprise inspections"

Freedom and all that...did you forget about that silly little notion?

[damntexdem]

24. But don't put them in the stocks of rifles.

Because we don't want the person with a gun to have a chip on the shoulder. ;-)

[anonymous171]

25. Police state FTW!

[DonEBrook]

27. Can we have one in your shoe too?

Or do you have a salad bar approach to the Bill of Rights...?

[Sanctified]

30. I say put GPS units in all people, that way you can track who was exactly at the murder scene.

[EstimatedProphet]

31. And this would help...how?

[PVnRT]

32. Ummmm....no

That's just dumb.

[Vickers]

33. Wow, one of the dumber suggestions I've ever seen on DU.

Er...congratulations?

:shrug:


From a logistical/technical and civil rights POV, it's a non-starter.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

51. To be fair, this stupidity originated on the Boston city council, not DU.

But in my experience the Boston city council is a fairly reliable source of stupidity.

[Vickers]

56. Wow, and I *love* Boston...one of the cooler (har!) cities out there.

Shame about the City Council.

:(

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

58. Their municipal government is really a joke.

The only reason I have any respect for it is because I've seen how much worse it really can get... in San Francisco.

[Vickers]

68. Well, I have no room to point fingers...I live in Palm Beach County.

:spank:

[killbotfactory]

37. The most effective way to end gun violence would be to end the drug war

First and foremost end the drug war. Then we need to give everyone in areas of high poverty and unemployment access to good jobs, education, decent food and sufficient housing.

Everywhere there is gun violence there is high concentrations poverty, unemployment, and drug use. All of which create a cycle which feeds off each other. If you want any real progress, we have to break that cycle.

Passing more gun legislation like that is just putting a band aid on a broken arm.

[Raskolnik]

38. One of the dumbest things I've seen posted in a while.

Love of Big Brother is not a progressive value.

[MadHound]

40. Umm, no, I don't think so

I don't want to be tracked by anything, whether it be my phone, my car or my gun. And frankly, no matter how you affix a GPS unit to a gun(or anything else for that matter) people can and will figure a way to disable it.

Sorry, but I'm against that sort of Big Brother tracking no matter what it concerns.

[slackmaster]

46. Wow, that's messed up

Make it optional and nobody would have a problem with the idea.

But you have apparently chosen the path of authoritarianism, so you must be defeated.

[Odin2005]

48. Hell no! That stinks of a creeping police state.

8 years of Bush should of killed this kind of anti-gun BS. :banghead:

[Taverner]

52. YEs

[riqster]

49. Good idea, wrong solution

...it'll only track the guns of those people who obey the law, even when the technology is up to snuff (it isn't yet).

[joeunderdog]

They're in cell phones, and they've solved murder mysteries that way.

How will the criminals explain that a gun was stored at a partiular address until the time of a crime? On some level, someone will have some explaining to do.

[riqster]

63. The cell phones already had the tech in place

...no one is advocating the compulsory retrofitting of mobile phones, or making an assumption that all criminals would voluntarily go in for such a retrofit.

[benEzra]

88. Cell phones are also charged every few days, and the batteries wear out after a few years.

How are you going to make sure your hypothetical criminal dutifully charges his gun's GPS and transponder weekly so that the police know where it is? And that he replaces the batteries when they start losing their charge holding capability?

Not to mention the fact that ten seconds in a microwave would fry the electronics without harming the gun.

[Raskolnik]

64. If you could wave a magic wand and make the OP's plan feasible, would you do it? n/t

[riqster]

66. If I had such a wand, I'd have a long list of other jobs for it first

...like ending child abuse, war, starvation, so on. All of THOSE are things we can and should do without worrying about people's Constitutional rights.

There is a question of assumption of guilt/innocence here, and a hint of Big Brother that makes me uncomfortable.

[Raskolnik]

67. But why did you state that it is a "good idea?"

[riqster]

73. In general I support gun registration

...and efforts to convict individuals who commit crimes. However, making people who purchased a item (in this case a gun) under a given set of laws into criminals because the laws change (e.g. by not having the chip implanted in an older weapon that did not come with a chip when manufactured) after that purchase smacks of unfairness and governmental overreach.

Another example: "Fahrenheit 451". People bought books, and books were later banned, and law-abiding book owners became 'criminals' without having committed another act that would have been illegal. There's a bit of that here IMO.

[gravity]

50. Goodluck selling that one to the gun nuts

I don't know if there is anyone less accepting of the idea of the government tracking their every movement

[Raskolnik]

62. Are you a big fan of the government tracking your every movement?

Or are you one of those "nuts" that doesn't care for the idea?

[slackmaster]

70. I'll allow a GPS chip in my rifle as soon as the OP allows one in his skull

If there is a drill that can penetrate it.

[tammywammy]

53. Too much big brother

Punish the criminals with guns, not the law-abiding citizens.

GPS in every gun is stupid.

[derby378]

54. I'm all for GPS beacons in guns, but feel they should be voluntary

The beacon has to be small enough that it will fit in most guns, but run on a battery that's powerful enough to broadcast the gun's location to law enforcement over a two-week period. That should be more than enough time to recover the stolen firearm and return it to its rightful owner.

[fed_up_mother]

55. And who do you suggest we put in charge of your police state?

UGH

[apocalypsehow]

57. Actually should put a GPS chip inside every "law-abiding" gun owner with little electro-shock prongs

and hit the "ZAP!" button every time yet another person is slaughtered in the commission of a firearms crime - which is dozens of times a day.

Just kidding...sorta. What we actually need is a set of uniform, across-the-board gun control laws similar to what most civilized countries have. The Australian, Canadian, or British models would be just fine.

[derby378]

59. I'm glad you were only kidding...

...but violent crime in Australia and the UK has risen since tighter gun laws were enacted, IIRC. I don't want that pattern repeated here in America.

[apocalypsehow]

65. Off topic, but I have a relative in law enforcement coming to town for Christmas and he's offered to

take me out to the local shooting range (I've been once before with him) to shoot a "Bushmaster." Don't know what that is, but it sounds fun.

[slackmaster]

71. Most Bushmaster rifles are AR-15 variants

Generally well-made, and definitely fun to shoot.

[derby378]

72. That Bushmaster is probably a semi-auto .223 AR-type rifle

It should be fine, but we tried out a Bushmaster at the range a couple of years ago and had some jamming issues. Your relative probably knows enough about the rifle to minimize that problem, though. Enjoy.

[zagging]

61. Useless

It will never work. Besides being impractical, it's impossible.

[guardian]

69. Even better ...

--sarcasm on---

Let's put a GPS tracking chip inside every person at birth. We can require implantation of people already born within the next 12 months. Oh yeah, we'll have to make this a requirement for every visitor to the US as well.

Then we can identify criminals by proximity to a crime scene. It would also be a great way to track association between people.

--sarcasm off--


What stupid fucking idea.

[biermeister]

74. let's just chip the people instead

[jmg257]

75. Wow-gun registration and gun owner tracking...all rolled into one! SO when I ever I carry, anyone

who wants to will know right where I am...hmm...I guess everyone, especially the State, can be trusted with such info. Nothing to fear here.

Since we have a lot more crimes and criminals then "gun issues", wouldn't it make more sense to legislate criminal tracking?

[slutticus]

77. Guns of the Patriots?

[TheWraith]

78. Don't be ridiculous. Even if you got arount the massive privacy concerns, how do you power it?

This city council guy is an idiot who clearly doesn't know the first thing about what he's talking about. GPS tracking devices require POWER, the same as any electronic device. Do we expect everyone to keep their gun plugged into an outlet when not using it? Not to mention that most GPS receivers won't work indoors at all. No signal from the satellites.

You're not really talking about a "chip," you're talking about a package of electronics, antenna, battery, and--if you want to be able to communicate with it from a distance--cellular radio totalling up to the size of a pack of cigarettes. Yeah, that'll just disappear into every handgun.

This is just a completely dumb idea that, unfortunately, some people are going to see and assume is actually possible based on a lack of understanding of the logistics.

[The Inquisitive]

83. why don't you just cut out the middle man and put them in people?