Obama is a fierce advocate for LGBT Americans....

[originalpckelly]

unless they want to get married.

He doesn't believe in gay marriage, after all. We may be fairies, but we're quite real.

[Cattledog]

1. Lots of people don't support in gay marriage.

Obama said he didn't during the campaign. That's his view. Nothing new here.

[mondo joe]

3. But those people don't describe themselves as "fierce advocates" for gay and lesbian people,

the way Obama does.

[DonEBrook]

5. Exactly. I prefer it when bigots just come right out and say they are.

...

[Cattledog]

7. Sure they do.

I have met many of them. They support "Civil unions".

[mondo joe]

8. Which ones describe themselves as "fierce advocates"?

Seriously.

Which ones?

[Cattledog]

10. Lots of friends, family members.

That's their view and I respect it.

[mondo joe]

12. They call themselves "fierce advocates"?

Are you fucking serious?

[Cattledog]

14. Dead serious.

Ironic but true.

[mondo joe]

17. Are you sure they didn't say "Farce Advocates"?

Because a "fierce advocate" wouldn't aspire to second class citizen for the people they purportedly advocate for.

[Bravehammer]

36. "Ironic but true" I call b*llsh*t.

[uppityperson]

34. "fierce advocates" are not for "civil unions", they are for equality. eom

[DonEBrook]

15. Well I don't recall him ever using the phrase "fierce advocate" until the Warren thing hit the fan.

It just seems a little disingenuous to be saying it after the fact. No, it's a lot disingenuous.

[baldguy]

32. Lots of people are wrong.

[LeftyMom]

35. We have words for those people.

Bigots, douchebags, assholes, homophobes...

[bluestateguy]

2. Regrettably, that is the view of the majority of Americans

It will change with the passing of more bigoted generations, but the simple fact is that in 2008, the American people are strongly against legal marriage for gays and lesbians.

[DonEBrook]

4. Therefore...we should just say, oh well let's just get the fuck over it.

Right?

[bluestateguy]

9. If that's what you want to do, then go ahead.

I would argue though that what needs to be done is to do a better job at convincing electoral majorities that there should be marriage equality.

The No on 8 campaign simply did not do that.

[Cattledog]

13. Well that's one answer.

But working to get a strong supporter of Civil & Human rights on the SCOTUS is a start.

[Critters2]

27. Right. The majority of Americans are not "fierce advocates" for glbt rights.

Neither is Obama.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

6. What do you consider most important if you have to pick one

The word marriage or the rights associated with it?

[mondo joe]

11. Who would present such a choice and call themselves a "fierce advocate"?

?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

18. I take it by your question you consider the word most important

Obama seems to be of the view that most Americans will not support gay marriage, but he also seems to believe that most people are not opposed to them having all the rights associated with marriage(that view i think is quite accurate of Americans)

Considering the views Obama holds and what he did while in Illinois and in the US senate i would call him a fierce advocate yes(yes he did say he believes marriage is between a man and woman, but he has also stated that if a legislation passes his desk that would grant marriage to everybody he would sign it since his personal beliefs should not be a factor in that)

[mondo joe]

21. It's a false choice. Would you rather be restricted to the back of the bus or walk?

Most will take the back of the bus rather than walk, until they can't sit any more.

If he wants to say an advocate I'd stomach it. But a "fierce" advocate?

Please.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

26. its only a false choice to those who want all or nothing this instant

rather then work on what is possible at the moment and continue to build from that

[mondo joe]

31. What's possible is to not choose bigots for special honors, to send a message.

[Ms. Toad]

37. If by "all the rights" you mean

all the rights except those only granted pursuant to marriage, like:

recognition in a state other than the state which created it
recognition by the federal government
recognition by countries other than the United States
the rights associated with marriage which exist through common law, rather than statutory law
the statutory rights associated with relationships derived from marriages (spouse, stepparent, etc.)
the common law rights associated with relationships derived from marriages (spouse, stepparent, etc.)

Do a little research - either search my posts here on civil unions or go google yourself silly. I'm tired of explaining over and over again why civil unions are not - and cannot be without decades of work - equal to marriage.

It is NOT just a word, it is the intricate legal web that constitutes marriage - created out of literally thousands of statutes, regulations, constitutions, and common law decisions, of literally hundreds of states and countries, each of which would have to be re-written or re-litigated to substitute a different status for marriage and make that (legally presumed to be deliberately different) status equal to that of marriage.

[Cattledog]

19. You seem so wrapped up in nuance

you'll never get to the end of the sentence. Let alone the book.

[mondo joe]

22. I care about accuracy. It hasn't prevented me from reaching completion. NT

[Cattledog]

23. Not accuracy. Obsession.

There is a difference.

[mondo joe]

24. Like MLK was obsessed.

But thanks for your privileged opinion. :-)

[Cattledog]

29. MLK was not obsessed he was focused and pragmatic.

Willing to turn the other cheek and even die for his cause.

[mondo joe]

30. He was certainly willing to protest and speak out.

But given that your friends thing second class citizenship is a worthwhile goal I'm not much phased by your opinions.

[EFerrari]

16. Once a fire alarm salesman asked me which one of my kids I would rescue in a house fire.

What a slimeball he was.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

20. agreed, that is a slimy question by the salesman

I do however think that those viewing the word marriage as more important then having all the rights associated to it needs to reevaluate a bit tho, get the rights first then work on the word

[Critters2]

25. Sure he is. And I'm the Queen of England.

Like my ermine cape?

[Bodhi BloodWave]

28. *bows gracefully* How may i serve you o' queen of england

[Malikshah]

33. PE Obama: We have Christian Siriano on the line: Listen, Mary.

Fierce is my word! You use it again and I will destroy you. :)

*a boy can dream*

[Creideiki]

38. Or employment rights

He wasn't the sponsor in Illinois when that got voted on and passed. He had left to the Senate and someone else had to get it done. Then when it was up for a vote, Obama's good friend and noted homophobic roll of toilet paper, the Rev. James Meeks voted against. Because, you know, it wasn't important enough for Obama to use his wads of charisma to get one of his best friends and spiritual advisors to even take the Illinois cop-out and vote "present".

I think right now, I want to put Obama's marriage up for a vote.