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Will stupid people and their pseudoscience cost more lives this year?

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Porschenut1066 Donating Member (348 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 08:57 AM
Original message
Will stupid people and their pseudoscience cost more lives this year?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/jan/03/aids-hiv-deniers-christine-maggiore



Happy New Year and everything, but know this: nothing has changed, people continue to have stupid ideas, newspapers continue to laud them, and lives will be lost. Here is just one: What if everything you thought you knew about Aids was wrong? That was the title of a book by Christine Maggiore, an HIV/Aids-denialist lauded in the American media. She is now dead.

Maggiore decided that HIV does not cause Aids, and that antiretroviral drugs do not treat it. She was HIV positive, which the media loved. She declined to take ARV drugs and specifically decided not to take HIV drugs during her pregnancy, despite the strong evidence that they massively lower the risk of maternal transmission. She insisted on breastfeeding her children, even though it has been shown that this increases the risk of maternal transmission. She also refused to have her children tested for HIV. Her daughter, Eliza Jane Scovill, died three years ago. The coroner attributed the death to Aids and Pneumocystis carinii pneumonia. She was three years old.

Last Saturday, two days after Christmas, Maggiore died of pneumonia, aged 52. She was an extremely effective advocate. She set up successful campaigning organisations and counselled HIV-positive pregnant women on how to avoid pressure from medics to use azidothymidine (AZT) during pregnancy to prevent maternal transmission of the virus. She appeared on the cover of Mothering magazine, with a "No AZT" sign painted on her pregnant tummy.

However, as always, this is about far more than one person. Maggiore's views on HIV were driven by the work of Peter Duesberg, a well-known Aids denier. He was unable to persuade other scientists that his views on HIV were correct, but he did very well with journalists, most notably Neville Hodgkinson, former science correspondent of the Sunday Times.

Over two years in the early 1990s the paper published a series of lengthy articles rejecting the role of HIV in causing Aids, calling the African Aids epidemic a myth. It was all a scam to make money and defend reputations, they said.

Things got so bad that Nature, probably the world's most important academic journal, published an editorial describing the Sunday Times coverage as "seriously mistaken, and probably disastrous".

Duesberg went on to great things, including South Africa's president Thabo Mbeki's disastrous presidential advisory panel on Aids. It was here that the country's Aids-denialist policies were set into play, with tragic consequences. One demographic modelling study estimates that if the South African government had used antiretroviral drugs for prevention and treatment at the same rate as the Western Cape, around 171,000 new HIV infections and 343,000 deaths could have been prevented between 1999 and 2007.

Aids is the opposite of anecdote: three million people died of it last year. Hundreds of thousands of lives, perhaps millions, have been lost because of a stupid idea, promoted by stupid people. To the best of my knowledge, not one has either apologised or clarified their stance. Just don't let anyone tell you pseudoscience is harmless.

bad.science@guardian.co.uk
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Smith_3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 08:58 AM
Response to Original message
1. Anti-Scientism is a serious problem.
Needs to be adressed much more.
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TechBear_Seattle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
2. Of course
And let us not forget the role of the Catholic Church's anti-condom dogma, which is directly responsible for tens of thousands of new HIV infections each. Religion is at least as dangerous to human life as pseudoscience.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. This is so sad, and so frustrating
People have the right to refuse life-saving treatments for themselves; but what's truly terrible is that she may have prevented her little girl from being saved.

What is even worse is that this sort of HIV denialism is spread by people in power in some parts of the world, e.g. President Mbeki of South Africa.
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. This is the media, and the Myth of False Equivalency's fault
The media, in an attempt to appear "impartial," always sees the need nowadays to present "both sides" of an issue, even when there really aren't two sides.

It's this attitude that keeps the anti-global-warming and "Creation Science" people in the spotlight; if there are two points of view, even if one of them is clearly insane, they must be shown as equally valid.
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Prophet 451 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
25. You beat me to it
I was going to say exactly that.

The global warming deniers are the most vocal part here (England). Their whole arguement is based on one pseudo-science "documentry" on Channel 4 but whenever the subject comes up, they swarm, giving them the appearence of much larger support than they actually have.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. I'm liking my choice of new sig more and more.
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SidDithers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
6. Wow, what a powerful article...
thanks for posting. K&R.

Sid
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. I remember her on the cover of Mothering Magazine.
Edited on Mon Jan-05-09 09:43 AM by Ilsa
I'm going to check to see if they have covered her story in awhile.

Just checked: the online version of Mothering covered Maggiore's death. Also reported that a toxicologist from her board of AIDS deniers said that her daughter's death was an allergic reaction to antibiotics given to her. Oh brother.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Ugh
That woman's a murderer, and the "toxicologist" is little better.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. How very not surprising
Edited on Mon Jan-05-09 11:40 AM by MountainLaurel
Coming from that periodical. They do have some useful information, but they are right up there with the Focus on the Family newsletter in terms of publications I'd trust for scientific and medical information.
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. They have some very creative ideas for playing with your kids,
parenting, meals, frugal and simple living. But some, not all, of their medical stuff leaves something to be desired. They will show weaknesses in research, etc, and getting their readers to think, isn't a bad thing. But no one should take advice about medical and scientific issues from a periodical.
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Realityhack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
8. "Just don't let anyone tell you pseudoscience is harmless." QFT n/t
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kickysnana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:52 AM
Response to Original message
9. Don't let anyone tell you the corruption in our society does not extend to medical research. n/t
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #9
19. You should read that author's book 'Bad Science' on the subject of drug companies
He hates how they bury trials that don't say what they want them to, medicalise things, and generally behave unethically.

Here's a sample:

http://www.badscience.net/?p=607
http://www.badscience.net/?p=619
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QueenOfCalifornia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:03 AM
Response to Original message
11. This is the kind of thing
that just makes me shudder. There are the doctors, a hand full, who agree with this b.s. - They draw a certain type of person into their "cults", the kind who will believe the world is flat and that the number 13 is woo-woo scary. After all the progress made in AIDS research these lame-brains come along and set up their freak-show tents and draw a crowd who yearns to not just see the geek but to be the geek.

:eyes::eyes::crazy::eyes::eyes::crazy::eyes::eyes::crazy::eyes::eyes::crazy::eyes::eyes::crazy::eyes::eyes::crazy::eyes::eyes::crazy::eyes::eyes::crazy::eyes::eyes::crazy:
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
13. Never underestimate the power of stupid. nt
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Ocracoker16 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. the AID's pandemic is awful enough without pseudoscience
It is hard enough to educate people in Africa about the prevention of HIV. There is far too much American money for AID's in Africa that is funnelled into abstinence only education. These people are already sexually active and should learn how to use condoms to protect them.

Then walks in the denialists who tell the already HIV positive people that they don't need to take ARW's and that they won't get AID's. The internet is an excellent resource, but it also contributes to some of this stuff spreading around. Christine Maggiore had a big website full of lies.

The irony to me is that the site was called AliveandWell. I think that if she is dead she can't be alive and well.

Thanks for posting. This might be good crossposted in the Health forum.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
16. Yes. Stupid people killed a whole lot of people where I live, the Mississippi Coast.
Stupidity is a deadly killer. (See: FEMA Katrina response under George W. Bush)
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 05:35 PM
Response to Original message
17. Yes.
Look at the measles outbreaks.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. Or the polio resurgence in west Africa.. ugh (nt)
Edited on Mon Jan-05-09 06:37 PM by Posteritatis
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woo me with science Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
18. "What's the harm?" A website documenting just some of the harm from all kinds of woo garbage,
Edited on Mon Jan-05-09 06:33 PM by antfarm
from homeopathy to repressed "memory" creation.

http://whatstheharm.net/index.html



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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. bookmnarked - much awesomeness.
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anigbrowl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
21. Strongly recommended
Pharma companies are not angels and deserve to be closely scrutinized...but there's a whole conspiracy industry that bilks money out of people by catering to their paranoia about things they don't understand. This is why we can't have nice things.
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AwakeAtLast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
23. Wow. Law & Order - SVU did an episode that was very similar
Now I know where they got the story, thanks for posting!

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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-05-09 09:38 PM
Response to Original message
24. or maybe 2 million died, whatevah.
http://www.avert.org/worldstats.htm.


but with the millions dead in africa's wars, the millions dead from preventable vitamin deficiency, simple respiratory infections & diarrhea, it's hard to get a good body count, ya know?


yeah, "woos" are to blame for all ills.

not.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. We're not saying they're to blame for all ills.
Just many dead people.
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Posteritatis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-06-09 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. Woos *are* to blame for AIDS denialism, though (nt)
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