Obama vows action on deficits, his solution? Cut SS and Medicare. Change! Yay!

[Postman]

Obama pledged to rein in the government's biggest long-term commitments -- "entitlement spending" such as Social Security retirement benefits and Medicare health insurance for seniors.

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Obama_vows_action_with_US_deficit_t_01072009.html

....how about cutting the Pentagon Budget by half and increasing Social Spending? Fuck the Empire building. We can't afford it.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

1. That's fine, just give me back all I've paid in, with interest. n/t

[EnviroBat]

56. If they pull this shit, they can forget ever seeing another dime

of student loan money from me.

[Deja Q]

74. That is fair. They can keep their contribution, we just want they money we contributed back.

Without the penalty.

[Le Taz Hot]

2. Which was the entire reason

de-regulation was allowed and the economy was encouraged to tank -- so the baby boomers, who have contributed into SS their entire lives and who were assured time and again that SS would be there, would be denied their benefits. This is not difficult to figure out. I'm just so tickled that President Change was elected as opposed to that other guy. He's been such a breath of fresh air :sarcasm:

[and-justice-for-all]

3. I saw that on the news yesterday and was dumbfounded...

who in the fuck is he listening too??!! and WHY?

[opihimoimoi]

4. All I know is he better not fuck w my ss monthly chk..all Holy Hell will break loose

[Sherman A1]

11. I will be standing right next to you

I simply will not have my SS screwed with.

[timtom]

104. What is the relationship of the theme of this thread

to this, from change.gov?

http://change.gov/agenda/seniors_and_social_security_agenda/

I'm getting SS, by the way.

[tom_paine]

16. No offense, opi, but they aren't afraid of you. They aren't afraid of the American Subject

Populace at ALL.

Please don't take this personally, but when I hear my fellow Americans and myself say those kinds of things, the sad truth is that I can close my eyes and see the Germans of 1933 making those same pronounciations of "resistance until death"...provided no one could hear them saying it.

Sure, due to the nature of BushPutinist Inverted Totalitarianism, we are allowed to spout ineffectually on websites hardly anyone sees, and all it serves to do is generate a Target List for the Bushie Brownshirts, if they ever decide Inverted Totalitarianism is not profitable and that a reversion to Classical Totalitarianism would be more so.

My point is, at this point and until I see otherwise, I am quite convinced that psychologically, the American Subject Populace, upwards of 90% of us are now very VERY similar to the mebtalities of all tyrannized or ensalved people, everywhere. It is just that our tyrants are coddling us (not for much longer, as coddling is becoming unprofitable), because they have been trying to undo the American Revolution for 225 years and we have to be cooed to sleep while they do.

Bottom line, they fear us as much as they fear an army of overfat drooling infants, and quite frankly, they are correct to do so.

If the Bushies, who will likely continue to run America as they did during Clinton, and the Republican/DLC Congress wants to take your SS check, they'll TAKE it. If they deem that they can still make a profit off of things and keep the sheep penned and docile while doing so, they'll do it, no questions asked.

Problem for them is twofold, there are still far too many of us who remember what America once stood for, and we have to grow old and die before the Bushies can make the Final Moves. (Obama will, if he can, fatten us up again for the NEXT Bushie Feast on our Flesh, whether he knows it or not)

Second, the Bushies can make a lot of very large non-white populations disappear from reality, but they can't make upper-middle-class white men disappear from realiy like that...not yet, anyway.

While those two things are still in force, I think your SS is safe. Once those things fail, and by that time you and I will be comfortably dead, THEN what little is left of the Final Mask of Bushie Tyranny will be stripped away, though as I said they are already just about stripped to their Nazi Core already, to anyone with any Critical Thinking Skills left (which is to say less than 10% of the American Subject Populace, I would guess)

And while may language may sound as if I am certain these things will come to pass, I am not. But the signs that it will are very bad indeed.

Is Obama just another Bushie Placeholder? Starting to look like it, but we cannot be sure for at least a year.

So my tone of post is not certainty but shock, surprise, horror, and worry that we have been had again, though in truth what this will mean is that my original opinion of Obama as correct, before I was marketed to very savvily.

I want to be wrong, but it doesn't look good.

[opihimoimoi]

70. I hear ya man...an I wanna mahalo you for taking the time /effort to express your concerns/apprehens

Mahalo kakou....

Obama talking now...an I hear him too....trying to explain our challenge to excape this mess....it looks better when he sez it....can he make it work>??? I hope so...

Opi

:toast:

[Thrill]

22. You don't have to worry about that

[cmcdonald2003]

96. You Won't Have A Choice

Millions of shouts of outrage from those whose checks are
going to be reduced -- or eliminated -- won't change a thing. 
Better start looking for a job, any job.  
Appears there is going to be a lot of cutting from entitlement
programs, welfare programs, on down to all other government
programs.  Too much pork in all the programs is just the fact
of the matter (and certainly goes for the idiotic present
defense budget as well).  Cut, cut, cut.  Go to work, work,
work -- a "unique" concept for millions/billions of
people who think real-life paycheck dollar mathematics of
addition and subtraction doesn't apply to them -- those
millions/billions who are the so-called
"exceptions".  Ha-ha-ha.  Go Obama.  Start working
to provide a future for those who are under 50 in this country
-- now.  Senior discounts -- gone.

[eShirl]

5. what's next? privatization?

[Lilith Velkor]

92. yes n/t

[tsuki]

6. Isn't that one of the only issues that Bush ran into trouble with?

[Sherman A1]

9. Bingo!

We Have a Winner!

That is exactly when he became a Lame Duck. The moment he started on his SS privatization tour.

[crikkett]

36. I thought it started with the Katrina debacle.

[blm]

77. Nope - started with Social Security privatization - media couldn't spin it for him. Then Schiavo -

Then Katrina. Three unspinnable events in a row, especially Katrina. If the corporate media could have found a way to spin those events to Bush's benefit, they certainly would have, and we'd be stuck with President-Elect Romney today.

[RC]

7. I thought we elected a Democrat, not another repug?

"As a percentage of gross domestic product, the deficit is on course to reach its highest level since World War II. The CBO said the economy was reeling from a slump in tax revenues allied to higher spending on social safety nets.

The year-old recession will "last well into 2009," it said, which would make it the longest US contraction since the war.

Obama pledged to rein in the government's biggest long-term commitments -- "entitlement spending" such as Social Security retirement benefits and Medicare health insurance for seniors."

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Can someone explain to me what part of this is the "Change" Obama was elected for?
Nothing about reining in the expense of killing brown people. Instead we get the new boss the same as the old boss here.

[Postman]

8. Isn't it great that we, the taxpayer, have....

unlimited funds to bail out big business, banks and Wall Street Gamblers? But when it comes to providing social services, the very reason for why governments are put in place, there will be a tight rein on spending .....

With Democrats like these, who needs Republicans?

[Sherman A1]

10. Agreed

I am becoming less and less enchanted with what I am hearing and who I am seeing appointed. Even less with the cluster #*$& in the Senate.

[tom_paine]

19. Yep. Looks like we were suckered again. Figures. Maybe they are all in it together.

It's the ONLY explanation that makes sense of the last 28 years, although under the tenets of Inveretd Totalitarianism, the actual forms of republics are used to keep the sheep docile until Classical Totalitarianism can be implemented.

It's already profitable to do so in BushPutinist Russia, so he's doing it. Not yet profitable to for the Bushies to just go for it, Prescott and the Nazis-style, and the sham is working for them VERY well, so why bother changing it?

God, I want to be wrong about this. I am reserving judgement until Obama has governed for a year, but all of this looks SO BAD.

[galileoreloaded]

49. A lot of damage can be done in a year by a corporatist majority.

Just sayin'

[tom_paine]

51. And our corporatist majority has been in TOTAL CONTROL for 28 years!

No WONDER the nation resembles a smouldering, broken, robbed piggy bank!

I hoped and still hoped that Obama wasn't one of them, but that's not looking likely, based on his pre-inaugural action and words.

The Corproatists have something like a 500-35 majority in both houses, the Imperial Throne (they may still have it, if Obama isn't the man we need him to be) and probably 6 or 7 justices onthe Bushie Political Wing that cals itself the Supreme Court, presumably as a joke on the peasantry.

As I say, with THAT kind of majority, I am suprised we aren't all in chains by now.

OTOH, maybe this bullshit game is what the Global Aristicracy came up to neutraliz the effects ofthe American Revolution.

FREEDOM! THE TASTY NEW AND IMPROVED BEVERAGE.

in small print: Brand naming does not legally imply that product contains any real freedom in it, just processed, chopped up, pastuerized, pureed "freedom-like food:.

[crikkett]

38. Hi, Medicare fraud is big business and it's wasteful spending that

can easily be remedied without hurting Medicare beneficiaries.

I personally would rather he pledge to go after crooked defense contractors.

[CTyankee]

43. That might be what Obama has in mind. I note the story didn't say he was cutting beneficiaries

checks. "Reining in" spending on any program can take many forms.

People here need to calm down and think harder. Why would Barack Obama or any other politician start right in by hurting the strongest voting bloc we have in this country: seniors? It's just crazy to think that way.

And yet people on this board look at this story, don't read it carefully and make wild assumptions. Sometimes I can't understand this place...:shrug:

[exboyfil]

18. Why the heck was the so called trust fund built up

to now change Social Security? Isn't 67 old enough to start drawing benefits when you have been paying effectively 12.4% of your income into the system your entire working life like I have been doing. Ok give me back the 10% for the OASI and keep the Diasability Insurance premium without interest, and I will never accept a dollar of S.S.

Actually I would vote to opt out entirely from the S.S. system going forward, and you can keep my premiums to this point. I will self fund my D.I. and retirement. I am 45, and I have been paying with a good job into the system since 1985 (with some temporary work before then).

I doubt I will see much back from what I contributed. The date is going to get pushed to 70, and every dime that I may receive will get taxed.

S.S. is a welfare system - plain and simple. Like all Defined Benefit systems it is subject to the vagrancies of future events like legislative actions. It is a Ponzi scheme in that the first in the door have seen massive returns on their money while later workers see declining returns until the whole thing blows apart.

The Trust Fund is a joke as long as we run a deficit in the general budget. What does the $2.2T in Treasury IOUs actually mean? Last year S.S. collected $600B and paid out $400B in benefits. The other $200B went to AIG.

What I think S.S. does is a shell game to disguise that it is a welfare (wealth transfer) program. I never understood how S.S. payments were taxed until I did my dad's final tax return after he died. I feel like a fool saving in 401(k)s/IRAs when my tax liability on S.S. will be increased later on down the line.

Medicare needs to be handled with Universal Single Payer insurance. I am hoping we can achieve a German style system with 15% of all income taxed to fund the system (right now spending is at 24% of income so a lot of work needs to be done to get to this point).

[Postman]

23. SS is a good system if its properly funded...

It seems you're misinformed about what SS is and what it pays for....it's more than what you call a "welfare system".....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_Security_Act#Creation:_The_Social_Security_Act

[exboyfil]

31. No system in which legislators can decide what

your check is going to be is, in my mind, a good system.

In isolation S.S. is not a bad system, and for workers making less than $40,000 in today's dollars it probably is a great system. As you look at taxing S.S. (which is effectively needs testing) and the actual payments made versus contributions, you can see that it has a large component of wealth transfer associated with it. In that regard it is a welfare system. It does what it was designed to do - provide a minimum income for retirees.

As an individual it is a very bad deal for me. If I could opt out I would even at 45 (I said the same thing at 25 and nothing has changed in my mind in 20 years after over a $100K has gone into the system). What I find is that retirement planning is impossible in a S.S. environment because I know the Feds are going to needs test it.

The whole federal budget system is compromised so long as we run deficits and continue to run up a debt. The S.S. trust fund is a sham ($2.2T owed to S.S. of a $11T and ever growing). If we can zero out the deficit in the general budget, then I would not have a problem with S.S. being the only debt holder for the Treasury.

[Postman]

42. I think you're viewing SS incorrectly...

It's not a "retirement system" per se, though for some it has become that.

It's an Insurance system as Thom Hartmann so profoundly explains.

[tom_paine]

The SS Trust Fund was built up so that Rich Bushie could later steal it.

Raygun was a befuddled old Alzheimer's-riddled-Bushie Puppet, so one would expect that HIS acts WERE Bushie Acts. And we now KNOW that every and I mean EVERY action the Bushlers took to "help" is actually a massive monetray fraud designed to loot the peasants or achieve Bushie Political Goals bought with buckets of innocent blood.

Why did we EVER think the 401(k) was anything BUT an ATM for the Bushies?

Wanna know why? Because we and I mean ALL of us including me, are the generation of Americans that least deserves freedom to have ever lived. We are fat, lazy, arrogant, ignorant, unable to think in anything besides Cable Tv Infoganda, and deathly afraid of the smallest discomfort, which is perhaps the characteristsic the Bushies LOVE because such people, as we now know PERSONALLY, can be abused infinitely with no consequences to the perpetrators.

You think the Bushies having to do the Clinton and mostly control t he nation while out of power is a problem for them? Obama's walking happily right into their jaws in the customary way. He'll be allowed to fix the economy, after all, we are being fattened for the next round of Bushie Vampirism., just like during Clinton.

We didn't deserve freedom, and now it turns out we neevr really had it, and if we did, the last REAL whiffs are gone. We are free as any well-treated prisoner, so long as we DO NOT test the bars of our comfortable cage.

And yes, whether he knows it or not, it looks like Obama is going to help them out with that and lots of other things, like burying any invetsigations into Bushie Felonies or Treasons "for the good of the country".

Wow, do I ever want to be wrong about this, but the pre-inaugural activities and pronuncement has convinced it is a HIGH PROBABILITY.

Go kiss Billy Kristol's ass some more, President Change, 'cause THAT's what your consitutency wants.

:argh:

[sinkingfeeling]

63. You only pay taxes on SS benefits if your income is above:

• $25,000 for single, head of household, or qualifying widow or widower with a dependent child.
• $25,000 for married individuals filing separately and who did not live with their spouses at any time during the tax year.
• $32,000 for married couples filing jointly.
• Zero for married persons filing separately who lived together at any time during the tax year.
Generally, up to half of your benefits will be taxed if you exceed the base amounts. However, up to 85 percent of your benefits could be taxed if you are a single filer and the total of all your other income plus half of your Social Security checks exceeds $34,000, or $44,000 if you are married and file jointly.

http://www.bankrate.com/brm/itax/tips/20010115a.asp

[exboyfil]

103. Taxing S.S. Benefits

That is why I view taxing S.S. as probably the most frustrating thing about the system. Take two individuals with equivalent tax streams - one decides to live a consumer driven lifestyle (new car every 4-5 years etc) while the other is conservative and saves a portion of his/her income into a pretax account.

When they both retire on the same day they both get $12K from a DB plan and they both get $20K from S.S. The second further pulls $20K from his pretax savings per year.

The $32K (pension and pretax savings) is subject to tax as it should be, but why should the S.S. be taxed? The contributions already came on the front end from pretax dollars into the system. You are telling the saver, "Thanks for your frugality, please pay for it since the other guy didn't bother to save."

I did not realize that this was going on when I was putting 15% of my income away in 401(k)s for most of my career (from about 28-43). I found out about it when I did my dad's last tax return.

Not another dime above the match will ever go into a pretax account. Paying taxes on the pretax dollars in retirement is fair, but penalizing S.S. payments is not fair. I should have paid more attention to the Roth IRAs/401(k)s.

S.S. begins already with a needs testing component (look at the 90%, 32%, and 15%) calculation of the benefits. The needs testing then further goes on in retirement through taxing S.S.

[HillbillyBob]

12. I paid in working 2 and 3 jobs, when I got sick i had to be homelss

for 2 years once and for a year the time before when I got sick..it took that long to get help. A real big part of the delay was because I was homeless.
This shit sux, w/o medicaid/medicare/ SSD I will be worse off yet.
I do have a partner who has a job, but it's like we are just getting by.
Why hell can ADM, Cargill and Monsanto get off with little taxes yet get billions in R&D to produce poisonous GM foods, Poisons such as roundup etc?
Not to mention the 668 billion damn dollars to DOD to kill people but they are going to gut what the f ing pukes have not been able to do with SS medicare etc.
That 668 billion does not even cover what the state dept spends giving weapons out to pet despots the world over.
I am fucking mad and angry. Without SSD and Medicaid/Medicare I might as well go blow my brains out because I have HIV and associated medical problems.
My meds cost up to 2700$ a month..if we had single payer medical as in Canada my meds would cost around 1,000$ a month. I cannot even work part time.
Obama Lost my support when he voted to let AT&T et al off for spying on us.
I may be going off too soon, but shit why is it they first raid the trust that we have all paid in to by guns and space base weapons that can kill us all from space and give aways to countries that hate us for stripping their resources and pollutiong their air, land and waters?

[crikkett]

39. HB, I hope you get better.

I'm sorry you're sick :hug:

[tom_paine]

13. Nothing but Change Change CHANGE from President Change.

Let it be noted that this is the FIRST time I have derrogated Obama. Hell, I worked my ass of for him!

But I know what I see. And what I se is that Obama is doing the Big-Dog Clinton, and yeah, mayeb they ARE both run by the Bushies, whether they knew it or not.

Unappetizing thought, but what's the credible alternative hypothesis?

Best I've yet heard is that we will all be stunned by The Super-Double-Secret-Probation Obama Plan that Obama had in store that is going to magically turn all Bushies into Hippies.

In other words, the "best" alternative hypothesis started our at implausible and is now on it's way to looking as ludicrous as the belief in Keep The Powder Dry.

[jumptheshadow]

14. Entitlement?

I've been paying into the system for 41 years! There damn well should be retirement funds there for me, and they are no "entitlement!"

[EOTE]

69. Seriously! That really pisses me off.

If you pay for something, you sure as hell are 'entitled' to receive it. And if you don't, you're 'entitled' to raise holy hell about it.

[redqueen]

71. Yes, they are an entitlement.

That's what entitlement means in this context - a guaranteed benefit that you're entitled to receive.

The right-wing noise machine has apparently been more successful with this muddling of terms (conflating the economic / legal term with the psychological synonym) than they have been with their efforts to define 'global warming' as a literal term.

[Deja Q]

78. Entitlement is welfare.

Tax money given to others.

We all put into social security.

Get rid of welfare - especially the stuff given to large corporations under the guise of "subsidy".

[peacetalksforall]

15. The reason we're broke is that money was stolen from us and the rich and

corporations are riding on our backs. That's where to start fixng things.

Don't dump on the people who have already been dumped on. Correct the course and source of the deficits. It ain't us.

[tom_paine]

17. Now now now, Obama seeems to understand that Rich Bushies are NEVER RESPONSIBLE.

Don't you watch your Cable TV Infoganda? Sure looks like President Change watches and INTERNALIZES the Busho-Corporate Frame.

I want to be wrong, and maybe this is all just a M$M-Bushie Joint PSYOP (possible, we now know...and ZERO stretch of the imagination) to kill Obama's support among his base.

But I think the fact that he and virtually ALL our Democratic Leadership 100% BELIEVE that Cable TV Infoganda gives them a 100% ACCURATE view of the country, when it's quite an unreal, Orwellian Circus of nonsense that EXCLUDES the thoughts and ideas of the bottom 99.9%, and destroys the Critical Thinking capacities as surely as a lobotomy.

President Change is just doing what they pretty much all do (with a handful of notable exceptions, including loveable yet patriotic and unbought wacko Ron Paul), which is obey the TV.

Come to think of it, aren't those three words so significant to the Modern American Mind that our entire Constsiution should be erased, since it has been rendered meaningless in an number of way by our Rulers, and replaced with Three Words.

The Bushian Constitution

Article 1. Obey the TV.

That's it. It's all we need. You think the nation would notice if that change was made? I guess I am joking here, but only half-joking.

[depakid]

20. Reining in Medicare spending sounds like a backdoor framing for single payer health care

and with respect to social security -means testing or changes to the FICA ceiling.

[exboyfil]

24. So S.S. is a welfare program?

Well at least lets call a spade a spade and stop the charade.

[depakid]

26. If means testing is adopted- that'll be what the far right says

which is why it's always been anathema....

[cmcdonald2003]

98. Yes -- SS, in part, is a welfare program

Over time SS has morphed.  It is now simultaneously an
insurance-like structured program funded from paycheck taxes
that serves various "pools" of
"entitlement" applicants: a) a
"retirement-type" insurance structured program (of
which 50% of the older people rely on as their sole
"retirement" pension type plan; b) SSI - where
people who are "disabled" (a large percentage of
whom have never paid one penny into the payroll tax system
because they never held a job); c) Medicare (payroll tax based
too)and d) Medicaid (payroll tax based too).  

So -- as it presently exists today -- SS is PREDOMINANTLY a
welfare program.

A grandmother aged 96 who never held a job out in the business
world but who has received $1,500 or so in monthly benefits
for 30+ years can be likened to a Madoff-ponzi schemer by
using plain math.

A spade is a spade is a spade.

Go Obama!  Start cutting!!  Economic recovery?  Get a job and
yes, that means minimum wage and stop shopping.  Losing your
house, car, can't buy those kids everything as well as
yourself, and have trashed your credit cards?  Too bad!  Too
sad!
It's time to trim all the fat pork.
 

[girl gone mad]

33. If Obama had faith in his health care reform plan,

he wouldn't even be talking about cutting entitlement spending.

His statements betray the fact that he does not believe his plan will solve the entitlement problem.

The entitlement problem is not a Social Security problem (a few tweaks like raising the ceiling on payroll taxes, would do the trick), it is a Medicare problem. If you look at the data, it is not a demographic problem, but a health care cost escalation problem. And this is with the US already having a health care system that costs nearly two times as much per capita as anywhere else in the world and deliver mediocre to bad outcomes in international rankings.

[depakid]

58. No argument there except

cutting "spending" can be had by creating efficiency.

and Medicare is (or prior to 2003 was) about the most efficient (public or private) program out there- other than social security.

;)

Just sayin' that transitioning to single payer makes sense- and is consistent with his statements.

[Thrill]

21. You're putting words in his mouth. He said nothing about cutting SS and Medicare

[Donnachaidh]

28. what is your definition of OVERHAUL?

From the dictionary:

"to renovate, remake, revise, or renew thoroughly"


The ONE thing that is keeping seniors and disabled partially safe during this Depression IS Social Security. The *****ONE***** Thing.



He can play with his tactics for making nice with the minority party all he likes on other issues. But if he uses the SS for yet more ass-kissing parties with the Republicans he's going to start seeing his approval ratings hit the skids HARD.

A LOT of people voted for him on his promise of CHANGE. This tactic is yet MORE of the SAME. Commander Change, meet the GOP. You seem to have far MORE in common than we were told.

[crikkett]

48. Hi, ending Medicare fraud is an overhaul that benefits seniors, and

so is collective bargaining on drug prices.

[Donnachaidh]

54. you know, this is a buzzword pulled up to cover the FACT

that it was NOT *fraud* he was specifically talking about. It was OVERHAUL of ENTITLEMENT programs.

Social Security was included, as well as Medicare. Social Security is NOT an entitlement program. I paid into that program starting at the age of 14. My DH STILL pays into that program.

When you start labeling programs that benefit the disabled and seniors as an ENTITLEMENT, you set those very same people, the ones who can LEAST fight back, as targets for the right. You signal that you are, if not outwardly open to tearing down, or tearing up, the ONE program that is keeping those folks from having to live in their cars, or on the streets.

He's turning on the economically weakest of his base. That's a COWARDLY act. And it will be devastating at a time when there will be NO other help for those folks.

But hey -- think of all that money he'll save, to be able to Bail out more big business. And he doesn't have to worry about those poor bastards who worked for him, tirelessly. He's grabbed the gold ring. Four years on the taxpayer's dole, living in a Mansion, and he's covered with the ultimate golden parachute - a pension AND Secret Service protection.

CHANGE? WHERE? :sarcasm:

[crikkett]

60. You're gonig to have a fun four years.

I can see you're afraid of losing Social Security, but I'm going to accuse you of hypervigilance.

I see your point about 'entitlement' being a derogatory term... but you are entitled to Social Security, aren't you? Because you paid into it. What would you call it, instead of an 'entitlement program'?

He's not turning on you, he's appointed a Cabinet-level official to oversee program performance, the first ever, and that's the big deal we should be talking about. It's the opposite of past administrations, and I think that's to protect you and your entitlements.

[Odin2005]

64. Your paranoia is hilarious and disturbing at the same time.

Quit confusing the term "overhaul" itself with right-wing BS "overhaul" "plans".

[ThomCat]

99. Can you show that he means something different?

He's using the same language that has always been used everything they've tried to cut social security. What makes you think he's using the same language but doing something different?

Before you bash other people for being wrong how about proving that you have a leg to stand on?

[earth mom]

94. Don't forget that Obama & his buddy Oprah get to crow about how they made "history"

because to them the only reason Obama is in the White House Mansion surrounded by every luxury is so he can become the next Oprah or some kind of Hero.

Forget about Hope and Change because it is nothing more than a total LIE to all the millions of struggling peons out there.

You get shit, suckas!



The Obama presidency is only about them and what's in it for them.

Same shit, different day.



:puke:

[anigbrowl]

95. These programs are entitlements. You paid into so you're entitled to draw on them.

There is an actual technical meaning to that word, which has nothing to do with Republican spin. The fact of them them being entitlement programs is what has kept them fairly intact so far - this particular kind of government spending is NOT discretionary because it's not under the free control of the treasury.

[CTyankee]

46. Thank you! See my post upthread. People on this thread didn't READ the story!

The very idea that Obama would open his administration by saying "Today I am cutting SS beneficiaries benefit checks by x%. Good night and good luck..." is ludicrous.

I swear I don't know why some DUers can't/won't read properly and take flying leaps of judgment without resort to reason...

[JHB]

52. Maybe so...but it won't hurt to remind him not to go there

SS "reform" has been a long-term project of the same financial philosophy that got us into the current mess, enough so that it's part of the Washington "conventional wisdom".

There is no looming crisis in Social Security. Potential problems are still decades away, and can be fixed by raising the income cap on FICA taxes. The basic tax rate was raised ~20 years ago in order to prepare for Boomer retirements. Any reduction in benefits amounts to Grand Theft of those taxes.


The problems in Medicare and Medicaid stem from the general explosion in medical costs: any system that brings those costs under control will relieve the associated problems with those programs.

[lumberjack_jeff]

57. Is the term "rein in" ambiguous to you?

I don't think it's the OP putting words in Obama's mouth. I think it's more projection on the part of his apologists.

[redqueen]

67. Yep.

I'm curious about what type of reform he's talking about... not so clear on what the outrage is supposed to accomplish.

[4 t 4]

83. Yea what he said # 21 n/t

[Romulox]

25. How do you think Obama is going to pay to extend his tax cuts for the wealthy??? nt

[depakid]

27. How do you figure that?

The smart move is simply to let the Bush tax cuts sunset out.

[Romulox]

29. When you cut taxes (or "extend tax cuts"), you must either cut spending or incur deficits.

This is elementary.

"The smart move is simply to let the Bush tax cuts sunset out."

It's smart if you're trying to please wealthy donors. It doesn't do a thing to shore up the financial stability of Social Security.

[depakid]

55. Smart if you want to pick your battles- knowing that certain battles are already won

The Bush tax cuts are toast- the only question is the timing.

In that respect, 2010 is better than 2009.

[glitch]

30. Huh. Looks like the change we voted for was "Brother can you spare a dime?" :( nt

[FreeStateDemocrat]

32. BO must realizes he's a one termer so he's doing a corporate sellout to ensure his own future

Even the current idiot was smart enough not to alienate his base. The biggest reason I reluctantly voted for BO instead of third party was the Palin factor and the only thing I have to show for it now is buyer's remorse. Reduced to picking the lesser of two negatives always bites me in the ass. This cat is not a Democrat by any stretch of the definiton other than DINO.

[ThomWV]

34. "realize he's a one termer" Now there's an original observation for you.

[leftchick]

35. this makes me sick

literally. WTF? NO MENTION OF CUTTING THE BLOATED AND WASTEFUL MILITARY SPENDING? :puke:


From Last year.....


Tom Shanker reports for The New York Times that the Pentagon's $515.4 billion budget request means that if it's approved "annual military spending, when adjusted for inflation, will have reached its highest level since World War II." Indeed, that's an understatement because that figure "does not include supplemental spending on the war efforts or on nuclear weapon." Basically, military spending is way, way, way higher than it was during World War II since there's little reason to think that spending on a war shouldn't be counted as military spending. Now the country is obviously much richer than it was in the early 1940s so we can afford this kind of extravagance if the broader geopolitical context justifies it. But does it?



That above is a chart Ezra Klein made based on 2005 data. Little about that context suggests to me that we needed to add much more money than the entire Chinese defense budget to our own spending. It's worth keeping in mind the next time you hear that the country "can't afford" to do something or other. We can afford plenty when it's something that political and economic elites want us to spend money on.

[1776Forever]

37. Obama is going to speak today - let's hear what he has to say - I do feel that he must listen to us

We the people can and must, as he said, voice our concerns. If enough of us start to question things then I think they must as we can vote them out in 4 years. Where are we going to go from here is the question? I agree with the poster that it should be Pentagon spending and pork in the bills like the bridge to nowhere that are cut before entitlement spending! Just going to cut down the middle-class even more and the elderly and the disabled.

[pnorman]

41. "Obama is going to speak today - let's hear what he has to say"

Now there's an innovative idea!! Perhaps TOO innovative for some here.

pnorman

[Freddie Stubbs]

40. Cut the Pentagon budget in half? That may be difficult as he has promised to INCREASE the number of

troops.

[stray cat]

44. I'm interested in hearing his plan - the repubs were wrong about their solutions

I'm waiting to hear Obama's.

[tomp]

50. interesting. we vote for him, THEN we get the plan. nt

[shadowknows69]

45. If true then I'm truly fucked

Might as well put a bullet in my head and save father time the trouble of killing me.

[Postman]

47. There really is only one solution to all of this....

Raise the cap on income that gets taxed.

Cutting benefits, especially in these economic times, would be political suicide.

[Juche]

53. You can save some money with those programs

If you let medicare negotiate prescription drug prices and you eliminate subsidies for the medicare plus program (which is designed by the GOP to destroy medicare) you save about $35 billion a year. If you increase the payroll tax for Social Security on people who make over 100k a year you can raise more income. So I am hoping he plans somethings along those routes.

[hileeopnyn8d]

90. not only do people not read, they don't listen either

The first part of your post is exactly what I remember Obama saying throughout the campaign. He praised Medicare every chance he got, while pointing out how it could be even better by letting Medicare negotiate prescription drug prices.

Just to be clear, I'm agreeing with you not implying you don't read/listen.

[Brazenly Liberal]

59. Looks like the lynch mob forms to the left.

Isn't it lovely how we eat our own? So efficient! Who needs the GOP to create crises out of thin air when we do it so nicely to ourselves? Post any old accusation, evidence not required, and wait for the mob to form.

One very unspecific sentence in a news article. Not even a quote. And under the bus he goes! It's easy, really. Just drag out all the old slogans and substitute his name for 'Bush' and 'Democrat' for 'Republican.' Who cares if the shoe actually fits when there's a chance to string someone up?

From the Washington Post
Obama once again declined to say how he plans to eliminate the growing budget gap, which is projected to narrow somewhat as the economy improves but explode again as the retiring baby boom generation sends the cost of the entitlement programs -- Social Security, Medicaid and Medicare -- skyrocketing. Obama said he will offer "very specific outlines" for addressing short- and long-term deficits when he submits his first budget proposal to Congress next month.

"We are beginning consultations with members of Congress around how we expect to approach the deficit," Obama said. "We expect that discussion around entitlements will be a part, a central part, of those plans."

So far, however, Conrad said Obama's team has been cool to requests to establish a bipartisan task force that would reexamine the entitlement programs, as well as the nation's tax system, and develop a long-term plan for bringing costs and revenue in line.

Meanwhile, Spratt said Obama's team is pressing for a new tax cut for working families in the stimulus package that would be made permanent in Obama's first budget.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2009/01/08/ST2009010800844.html

Hm. Maybe he's looking at cutting waste in how the programs are run. Maybe he's looking at means testing that would continue payments to lower and middle class Americans, but stop paying out to multi-millionaires as the program does now. Maybe he's just stalling for time while he gets other things done. Who knows? I don't and neither does anyone who is so eagerly taking part in this lynch mob. But what the hell? Why wait to find out when we can taste blood now?

Disgusting.

[dionysus]

62. these hyperventilating chicken littles are pathetic.

[dionysus]

61. bullshit hyperventilation crap. see here;

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4788444

[Deja Q]

76. THANK YOU!! THANK YOU!!

I'm taking a deep breath - as usual I've forgotten perspective.

[AtomicKitten]

86. Yeppers.

:hi:

[dionysus]

87. .

:hi:

[Odin2005]

65. Methinks people are hyperventilating over nothing. n/t

[JHB]

66. Don't sniff at "chicken littles" after a 30-year hailstorm

The theft of pensions and the undermining of Social Security has been a long-term project of the forces of conservative "economics" for decades -- even with Clinton in the White House the 90s all the "how to save Social Security talk revolved around ways to cut it rather than re-inforce it (except for a few "radical leftists").

It was far enough along that after his re-selection Bush tried to implement the conservative wet dream and privatize it, only to find out he didn't have as much "political capital" as he thought and certainly not enough to carry it off.

It's not paranoia if people really are out to get you. People are foaming about even a possibly-mistaken hint of cuts to SS because experience has taught them to take these threats (even hints of them) seriously!

So those of you sniffing your noses at those at all the uproar in this thread, feel free to continue to do so. The rest of us will snarl at our congresscritters and at the incoming administration, and send them a clear signal of "don't you f***-ing touch SS", just in case the new congress and administration act like (gasp!) politicians and come up with a "compromise" that leaves all us working stiffs screwed over yet again.

[Connie_Corleone]

68. There is not a GODDAMN thing in there about Obama cutting SS and Medicare!!q

Some people around here love to be fucking miserable and want to drag the rest of us down with them by jumping on any damn thing that's negative, whether if it's true or not!

[Two Americas]

79. here

Obama vows action with US deficit topping one trillion dollars

"Appointing a new watchdog to slash wasteful spending, Obama said the forecast by the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) underlined the need to kick-start the economy now and overhaul government finances in the long haul."

...

"The CBO said the economy was reeling from a slump in tax revenues allied to higher spending on social safety nets."

...

Obama pledged to rein in the government's biggest long-term commitments -- "entitlement spending" such as Social Security retirement benefits and Medicare health insurance for seniors."

http://rawstory.com/news/afp/Obama_vows_action_with_US_deficit_t_01072009.html

[newtothegame]

72. But he looks different, so that's good. I mean, that was the point right? n/t

[backscatter712]

73. There are ways to deal with SS & Medicare wastage that don't involve cutting benefits.

Personally, I don't think Obama is so heartless as to cut the elderly's Social Security and Medicare benefits with no warning and no other safety nets. If I thought he was the kind of asshole Bush is, I wouldn't have voted for him.

Maybe he's looking at things like enabling Medicare and Medicaid to negotiate with the pharmcos to drive prices down, cutting out other inefficiencies and so on.

Hell, maybe going for that universal health care system will cut costs in the long term - when people can take care of health issues early with simple trips to the doctor's office, they save millions that would otherwise be spent on preventable trips to the ER, hospitalizations and expensive diagnostics and treatments. A proper universal health care system will SAVE money.

[Deja Q]

75. I wonder what Ralph Nader will say in response to that story...

:scared:

[anonymous171]

80. We don't even need to cut it in half.

Just by eliminating the pentagons wasteful spending and cutting a measley one billion from their budget would give us shitloads of money.

[I814U]

88. A billion here, a billion there...

...and pretty soon we're talking real money.

:thumbsup:

[Cleita]

81. How can he do that?

Social Security and Medicare are not part of the General Fund and therefore immune to any budget cutting by a President. The only way it makes sense is if he lowers the FICA taken from wages and increases withholding to go into the General Fund. If he does this, he's a one term President for sure. Talk about a lot of angry baby boomers getting stiffed at a time of life when they become eligible for these programs. I don't think Congress will go for this.

[4 t 4]

82. I didn't see where he

said he was even thinking of cutting anyones benefits no details were given. He might be talking about how those two systems are handled like maybe to much unnecessary spending in the way the systems are run ? No details were given.

[Telly Savalas]

101. The absence of details is obviously because he intends to cancel both programs

and replace them with a program where senior citizens are used to expand our food supply a la "Soylent Green".

Obama apologists won't listen though because they can't handle any criticism of their Messiah.

[scheming daemons]

84. Yay! More poutrage from misinformed idiots with no reading comprehension skills!

[4 t 4]

85. Someone hold me please

some of the posts on this thread are so out there, my head is spinning like a top.

[Javaman]

89. oh for fucks sake. he hasn't said a thing about what he is going to do.

now get off your frigging alarmist horse and clam the fuck down.

man oh man, this is the fucking equivalent of yelling fire on DU.

[NoSheep]

97. FIRE!

:evilgrin: These folks are about to run me out of here with this shit. I think DU should be renamed FU. So many here are just here to rant and rave now. Blah blah blah (I LOVE jumping to conclusions) blah blah blah.

I'm surprised most of them know enough to even vote for a democrat in the first place.

[LaydeeBug]

91. and he voted for that giveaway to the rich? Holy-effing-MOLY.

I wish there were a smilie for shaking one's head no. I'll settle for this one: :banghead:

[quiet.american]

93. During the campaign, I read or heard Obama propose cutting SS payments to those like John McCain.

He's not interested in cutting the benefits of those who need the money, but according to what I recall, of those, who, like McCain, on the one hand complain about Social Security, and on the other, cash the checks that they in no way need.

[EconomicLiberal]

100. Calling Social Security and Medicare 'entitlement spending' is a Rethug talking point.

i am failing to see any significant differences between Bush and Obama on economic policy.

Will Obama try to privatize Social Security too?

[Telly Savalas]

102. Can you point us to anything remotely resembling evidence

that Obama is even flirting with the idea of privatizing social security?

Or do you just prefer baseless innuendo to a fact-based argument about the merits and failings of our president-elect?