A question about the legal fiction of corporate personhood.

[Waiting For Everyman]

(I'm against that to begin with, but that's not my question.) We all know corporations have bought each other up until they're a bubble in themselves. So my question is, how come corporate "persons" can buy other corporate "persons"? Real people can't do that. Isn't that corporate slavery?

Why should corporations not only have rights like real people do, but then be allowed to do what would be an awful crime for real people? No wonder they're dominating us, they have a special class of fictious rights over and above ours... and it's a right to criminal antisocial behavior.

Hmm. Anyway, maybe we should free the corporate "slaves" sometime soon... so they're not "too big to fail" anymore.

[ashling]

1. 'Tis a Puzzlement

but then that is the whole idea, isn't it?

[lostnotforgotten]

2. Best Book On the Subject - Unequal Protection - Thom Hartmann

[Waiting For Everyman]

3. Cool, thank you!

:) I missed that one, I'll check it out.

[Cary]

4. The purpose of having a corporate veil . . .

is to separate business liability from personal liability in order to encourage people to start businesses. I don't see why this idea offends you so much.

[Waiting For Everyman]

5. I realize that. I think you're maybe missing the point.

A corporate veil doesn't necessitate the standing of personhood.

Besides, who said I'm offended? I think it's absurd - in an Alice in Wonderland sort of way.

[Sherman A1]

6. I completely agree with you and I believe

so did Jefferson and Lincoln in some of their comments which can easily be googled. I don't find corporations in and of themselves offensive, yet I do find many of their actions to be so. I also do not believe they should have a "personhood" that allows them to operate in any sense that is outside of the laws that apply to you and me. We must remember that corporations are created by the laws of a state government and that state government draws it's power from the people of that state, therefore corporations should be in every way subject to the will of the people.

[Cary]

10. You need to understand where Jefferson was coming from.

There were very few corporations. Business and commerce back then, in a primarily agrarian society, was a completely different animal and their only real example of a corporation was the British East India company. Jefferson had a lot of issues with the British, generally.

I suppose that is somewhat analagous to today and what you're getting at but I don't think you're being specific enough. Thom Hartmann did have some interesting things to say on this subject. However I don't think your average, run of the mill corporation is the offending member here.

[Cary]

9. I think it's you is maybe missing the point.

A corporation is not a person in every sense. It is a person insofar as it can sue and be sued. The people who run the corporation are still responsible for their own tortious acts. It's more a matter of contractual rights than anything else and even that corporate veil is not inviolate.

But maybe I am missing the point? That is always possible.

What is it exactly that you find absurd?

[RC]

7. No other country has Corporate Person hood.

Just us, U.S. I think the OP had a good point. Corporations are having it both ways now. That need to end.

[pnorman]

8. That concept was NOT based on any SCOTUS decision, but on a "head note" by a court recorder.

Moreover, it can't be justified under the doctrine of "original intent". Many constitutional experts, including SCOTUS Justice Hugo Black, have criticized it very strongly.

HOWEVER, the fact that that (bogus) doctrine had been cited in a Court decision, gives it legitimacy thereafter. That's apparently how our legal system works, so remedying it will not be a trivial matter. Obama has SOOOO much on his plate, that I hesitate to suggest that he make that a top priority. But he's a constitutional scholar rather than a pampered MBA graduate, so I have HOPE!

Here's the Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporate_personhood

pnorman
On edit, watch this:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3969792790081230711
and
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7365345393244917682

[Odin2005]

11. "Corporate Personhood" is a good example of how what seems innocuous little things can...

...end up blowing up in one's face. It's a big reason that I think we need a new constitution, ours is short and vague compared to more modern constitutions.

[Selatius]

12. I think the problem is there is no public financing of federal campaigns.

As a result, the natural advantage always goes towards the wealthiest interests. Interests representing ordinary people can win some of the battles, but it takes a level of support from common people often not seen unless America is in a depression or in an unpopular war like Viet Nam or Iraq. In times when the economy is good and peace, people go to sleep, and that's when trouble happens. Ideally, the people would be awake all of the time instead of being awake after a major calamity occurs.

[Waiting For Everyman]

13. I did not know that - and those videos are MUST SEE.

Wow! I'm still watching the second one. And the Wiki article - I had no idea this whole corporate tyranny rests on such a flimsy legal foundation.

And the idea that corporations don't need to have any ethical concerns is utter bullshit. "Externalizing" is nothing but crime, which AGAIN, real people would not be allowed to do - we can't cause loss or harm and just say we don't feel like bearing the cost of it!!! There used to be a thing known as "business ethics". I don't know anything about what's taught these days, but let me guess - now, it's nothing but rationalizing abusive actions? Since corporations have claimed this "right to lawlessness" for themselves, then there is no choice but for us to create loads of laws to tell them exactly what they can and cannot do. This attitude they have is a modern creation, and it can be undone just the same.

Actually I think overhauling the personhood of corporations might go a long way toward fixing some of our serious problems. And I'm also surprised to find this is mostly only in the U.S. I thought that legal personhood was rather standard around the world. Well now I know better.

Even more reason to free the corporate slaves! Ironic, that the 14th Amendment was the first tool they used to build this monster on. It figures.

[anonymous171]

14. Instead of trying to get rid of Corp. Personhood,we should just eliminate their 1st amendment rights

That way, they can't petition the government (lobby.)