A 16 year old girl was killed tonight while walking across a very dangerous intersection.

[Shardik]

Or it could have been a 60 year old homeless drunk.

The local police have not filed charges. Yet.

Question:

If the driver had a glass of wine, they will go to jail for 10 years for manslaughter or possibly longer if murder charges are filed which could certainly happen.

If the driver had not had a glass of wine with dinner, there will be no charges filed.

This was a dangerous intersection and with a lot of traffic. visibility of a pedestrian would have been minimal due to headlights coming at you from six different directions. What is the right thing to do for the justice system?

What is a good and fair answer to this if it an unavoidable accident?

[Tangerine LaBamba]

1. You don't give enough facts

for a reasonable answer to be forthcoming.

For instance, were there traffic lights?

Was there a "Walk/Don't Walk" feature on the lights?

Was the girl walking against the light?

Stuff like that.

The glass of wine issue is a whole different thing.

[Shardik]

3. Lets assume that it would be considered an "unavoidable accident"

If there were no drinking involved.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

4. That's not helpful

All accidents are potentially "unavoidable."

Facts. Details. That's what you need in order to draw any kind of conclusion or opinion.

[Shardik]

11. Okay, consider that the facts and details lead to the assumption

of unavoidable.

I'm not trying to be snide, just trying to set a paradigm in which a person could be subject to punishment that may be swayed by public opinion.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

13. Punishment is always swayed

by public opinion.

The law doesn't exist in a social or cultural vacuum, and, because it is a living, growing organism, it's always affected by the way the world is and it always reflects the changes in that world.

To wit, we now have a mixed-race President, when once he would not have been allowed to vote.

Women serve on juries, which wasn't allowed not all that long ago.

People of different races are allowed to marry, but that was not always so.

Thirty years ago, drunk drivers would never have been charged with vehicular homicide. The crime didn't exist.

So, whatever you're trying to do, I think you're setting out to prove something that's already a given. Anyone who thinks public opinion doesn't affect punishment has no grasp of how the law works, how juries and/or judges work (depending on whether or not it's a bench trial), and how nothing exists in a vacuum, that the law is just as interconnected with the rest of our society as we as individuals are.

[LakeSamish706]

2. You know what, shit happens.... "I am very sorry for a loss of a very young lady"....

but we can't control this sort of thing. Was alcohol a factor? If so, that might be a justification for filing charges against the driver, but that is not going to undo the fact that a very precious life has been lost.

[The Straight Story]

5. Question is - how do you define 'factor'? (nt)

[LakeSamish706]

9. I would think that factor is what the law stipulates..... ie: .08 in most states...

However, there are many other factors involved here... Was there a crosswalk, if so was it well lit? The questions are ongoing..... Like I said, I am so sorry for this loss of life in this case, and all cases like this.

[sandnsea]

6. If the driver was breaking the law in any way

there will be charges filed. If the driver was following the speed limits, and all other laws, then it is likely the incident was unavoidable and no charges should be filed.

[Posteritatis]

7. "unavoidable" and "accident" together there are telling

Not every incident like that requires someone be punished. There's a reason they don't call them on-purposes; sometimes, it really is just something going terribly wrong, instead of someone screwing terribly up.

If the intersection doesn't have proper lighting and crosswalk signs, those should be - should have been - improved. If it does and it was a problem with drivers (when I was in London, ON, drivers would not acknowledge pedestrians period. Walk signals, crosswalks, crosswalks with a person in the middle of them, they would not even slow down), then that should probably be addressed.

If it's got proper lighting/signage, if the drivers aren't solipsist little shits, and if the driver was of sound mind, then it was 'just' a bad thing that happened with no need of retribution. Accidents happen.

[OhioBlue]

8. I guess that is why we have a legal system

and we hope it works.

Nothing will make up for this loss of life. It is terrible that this happened.

But, on a message board with limited facts I can't say what should happen.

Both sides will have to look at all circumstances. A glass of wine should not determine the outcome of an investigation and due process.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

10. Having experienced a personal loss that resulted in a

vehicular homicide trial, I feel qualified saying it depends on the circumstances. In our case it was a young man, otherwise law abiding who had had the proverbial
couple of beers. We asked the court for leniency which they obliged. Eleven years later I can say there is a peace that came along with that, but stress if the circumstances
had been different I can't say.

[appleannie1]

12. Too few facts

Was there a crosswalk? Was she in it? Was she walking against the light? Was the driver going against the light? Was there a light? Was she trying to get from one side to the other without observing traffic signals? Was the driver not observing traffic signals? My father hit and actually killed a man. It was the man's fault, not my father's. On a rainy night, wearing dark clothes, he attempted to cross a road where there were no lights or a crosswalk. He had passed the side my father was in, saw a car in the opposit lane and jumped backwards into my father's car. My father was driving very slowly and the old man slid off the fender, under the wheel. My father was going so slow that he did not run completely over him before stopping. That in no way aided the guilt my father felt. It totally changed him in little ways that only those close to him observed.

[soothsayer]

14. when enuff people are killed, they'll address the problem

....if the community howls about it.

[joshcryer]

15. They have. When drunk driving laws were instated vehicle related deaths dropped a lot.

Current rates are, I believe, something like 60% of highs in the 80s. It requires enforcement, however.

And you're never going to have zero or even low alcohol related death rates unless you ban cars.

Still striking how one year of auto accidents (the vast majority of which are alcohol or drug related; the majorty of that which isn't is young irresponsible drivers) is close to a whole Veitnam in terms of deaths.