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marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 09:36 PM
Original message
Blue Dogs need to be put down......
:argh:



via AlterNet's PEEK:



Meet Your New Blue Dog Overlords

Posted by Jane Hamsher, Firedoglake at 1:04 PM on January 29, 2009.

If eight more Blue Dogs had crossed over and voted against the stimulus, it would have failed.



Of the twenty-seven Democrats who voted with the Republicans to oppose Obama's stimulus bill, twenty-one were Blue Dogs:

But according to Democratic leadership sources, the number was almost much higher – and could have been high enough to hand the Republicans a monumental victory – had it not been for a letter from President Obama’s budget director Peter Orszag.

The letter addressed to House Appropriations Committee Chairman David promised to return to “pay-as-you-go budgeting,” and stressed that the stimulus was an “extraordinary response to an extraordinary process” and thus subject to different rules.

“It should not be seen as an opportunity to abandon the fiscal discipline that we owe each and every taxpayer in spending their money – and that is critical to keeping the United States strong in a global, interdependent economy,” the letter stated.

Orszag also emphasized that Obama’s support for paying for any temporary tax cuts in the stimulus that he would like to make permanent. The budget director said Obama would detail those offsets in his budget.

“Moving forward, we need to return to the fiscal responsibility and pay-as-you-go budgeting that we had in the 1990’s for all non-emergency measures,” Orszag continued. “The President and his economic team look forward to working with the Congress to develop budget enforcement rules that are based on the tools that helped create the surpluses of a decade ago.


A commitment to "paygo" right now is problematic for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that it could doom any meaningful healthcare legislation. But the fact that Obama was forced to kneel to Blue Dog demands is as clear an example as I can think of about something we've been saying for a long time -- the Blue Dogs now hold the power in the House to either join with Republicans or Democrats and control what legislation gets passed. If eight more Blue Dogs had crossed over and voted against the bill, it would have failed.

In the Chris Bowers/Nate Silver discussion about whether supporting the bank bailout bill was the progressive position or not, Chris brought up the fact that there was a distinction between the members of the conservative New Democrat Coalition and the Blue Dogs and how they voted. Kagro made a very interesting point in the comments:

One ideological difference between Blue Dogs and New Dems is that Blue Dogs more often appear to have a political interest in being seen as distinct fromDemocrats rather than being a distinct type of Democrat, as is the claim of New Dems.

New Dems and Progressives have a political interest (at least at this stage of the game) in allowing themselves to be closely associated with the Obama administration, and in being seen not to be obstructing it. Blue Dogs, however, are a different story. They will, in large part, benefit politically by distancing themselves, and being seen as only skeptical, cautious and hesitant participants in his plans.

In other words, it wasn't so much that the bailout is a progressive thing as it was that not opposing Obama is politically beneficial to most progressives. It's also an old (and not that good) habit of progressives -- to allow their safe seats and sense of responsibility for sustaining the Democratic leadership (both legislative and executive) to be leveraged into votes that may not necessarily be in line with their principles. Or at least to subsume their ideological principles to their political ones.

You'll recognize it as the "where else are they gonna go" syndrome. Or in this case, the "you're not really going to make your new president and leadership risk XYZ, are you?" syndrome.


Howie has more on the Rahm Emanuel legacy of recruiting conservatives to run as Democrats. Republicans love the Heath Shuler enforcement-only immigration bill and if enough Blue Dogs join with Republicans to get it on to the floor, Congressional Quarterly notes that "it would set up a platform for political attacks in the November elections, highlighting the GOP view that Congress should get tough on the border before addressing guest-worker visas or illegal immigrants." In other words, as Howie says, it could "wind up jeopardizing the re-election prospects of several vulnerable colleagues."

Making the Blue Dogs pay a price for this kind of sabotage is why we formed Accountability Now and launched the Primary project, and we'll be having some major announcements about this in the coming weeks. But is important to note that if left unchecked, the Blue Dogs could become a bigger obstacle than the Republicans to the change people voted for in November.


http://www.alternet.org/blogs/peek/123820/meet_your_new_blue_dog_overlords/


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Sebass1271 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 09:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. Send them packing.. we should put in place real progressives
to run agains these so called "democrats"
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Bobbie Jo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
2. Ugh...Unfortunately, one of them is mine.
I'm working on my response to said vote, which basically amounts to: If the 8th district wanted a Republican, we would have elected one.

Disappointing to say the least.
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Soupy Liberaltarian Donating Member (76 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
3. Haha. Euthanasia joke.
Nice.
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mitchum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Sorta...but the mercy would be for us, not those traitorous fuckwits
dead dogs (or men) do no more mischief
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 10:20 PM
Response to Original message
5. Ad replace them with Republicans?
Dennis Cardoza comes from a district that only elects two kinds of people...conservative Democrats and Republicans. Genuine liberals get their cars keyed around here....they don't stand much of a chance of winning an election. Hell, last time one ran he got abut 8% of the vote IIRC.

Kick blue dog Cardoza out and you'll hand the district to the Republicans.
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Blue Dog Dominion Donating Member (218 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 10:21 PM
Response to Original message
6. No, its the frothing at the mouth left wing radicals that are the problem
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misanthrope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. How would we know? They've never had a chance to run things**nm
***
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 12:45 AM
Response to Reply #6
9. Blue Dogs are the fringe Democrats.
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Blue Dog Dominion Donating Member (218 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. The rank and file voters are more blue dog then the far wing.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. you are the far wing
quite fooling yourselves
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. right leaning rightards think so
Edited on Fri Jan-30-09 01:22 PM by fascisthunter
the most dishonest disloyal fascist suck-ups besides the pukes. I stand with the average American not big business leaders like some sycophantic poser. Talk about extreme...
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Still Sensible Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jan-29-09 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
7. Fortunately my Blue Dog Congressman (Boren) voted yes
and unfortunately, electing a real progressive in my state is not possible. If we lost that seat it would be to a clone of Inhofe or Coburn. Blue Dog or not, Boren is an improvement and he voted his conscience on this one.

Interestingly, his father David was never a far left liberal in the Senate, but he was more progressive than Dan's votes indicate. David, now president of OU, was one of the most powerful senators and considered an expert on intelligence and foreign affairs, a close colleague of our current vice president.

In fairness to Dan, Oklahoma was not as conservative when his father served. But the power of the Baptist churches in the state--with the GOP focusing on abortion and gay issues--the state has moved farther right. And no state has bought into the all-taxes-are-bad and all-tax-cuts-are good meme, I swear.
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marlakay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
10. Better a blue dog than a red dog!
Most of them are in areas that are very conservative and a regular dem wouldn't win. Good luck getting one there! You have to move in a bunch of liberal voters!!
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Precisely. If I had to choose between my current congressman and a Blue Dog...
I'd take the Blue Dog in a heartbeat. In a choice between a Republican who votes our way 10% of the time and a BD who votes our way 60 or 70% of the time, it's no choice at all.

All things considered, the Blue Dogs aren't as bad as they're made out. 10 of them voted against the stimulus, but there's 47 BDs, so 37 didn't bolt. And some people within their caucus--including my new Senator, Kirsten Gillibrand--have been pushing them towards a more populist approach to governing. It's a hell of a lot better than Republicans.

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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. The problem is that the primaries should be more competitive than they are now...
We need some REAL progressives in the primaries.

It's about outing the corporate wing of the Democratic Party. We need to have a non-corporate choice move beyond the primaries. I think even Republicans or independents, if they are conservative on other social issues will perhaps be persuaded if they realize that either a corporate Republican or a corporate Democrat is worse for them than a non-corporate Democrat who is pushing their values. I think we saw that with the early surge of Huckabee in the Republican primaries. Though he has social positions we can't tolerate, he was also the more anti-corporate choice on their side. If someone really puts forth a good message and emphasizes those issues that work against corporations and aren't as partisan on the social side (like public campaign financing, a better "bailout" process that doesn't reward CEOs, a more progressive tax system with the tax rates before Reagan restored, single payer health care if sold correctly to squash the "socialized medicine" mantra they spew). I believe progressive pols can win with a grass roots campaign like that. Might be hard to get money, but that perhaps could make that person be able to more legitimately campaign for public campaign financing...
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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
13. what price is Ms. Hamsher going to make the blue dogs pay?
replacing them with Republicans?

Because, in the districts they are from, that's a hell of a lot more probable than electing a progressive....
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
15. Kick &Recommended!
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jan-30-09 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
17. I like my Blue Dog. Stay away. grrrrr
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