Susie Bright talks about the "Octuplet Lady"

[lightningandsnow]

Feminism Times 8 - A Come-to-Momma Talk

I have something to say about "The Octuplet Lady."

When I first encountered Nadya Suleman's story, the eight live births, I remembered the Dionne Quints. A Guinness Book of Records trophy is an exploitation-meister's dream.

I imagined, at first, that this Octuplet Mom must be a desperate older woman with difficulty carrying pregnancies to term— who'd been afraid this would be her last chance.

The next day, I saw Nadya's youthful photo and read the news that she had six other children. OMG! Like everyone, I doubted her sanity and felt even sorrier for her kids. I shelved the story into my "Sad Circus Act" drawer.

But it wouldn't go away. The media's freakish infatuation with Suleman has taken me in a new direction— a fury over the celebrity morality tale that's been scripted for the American public, starring this obviously-addled Mother of 14.

Nadya's pregnancy obsession and physical triumph is a freak occurrence and everyone knows it.

Yet the heavy mantle now placed upon Ms. Suleman, of "welfare mom" and "slut who must be punished" is— not so new— and it bears a little extra witness in this case.

It's gotten ugly. Searching Google for one minute, I found an anonymous CraigsList post: "This Iraqi woman needs to be held down and forcibly sterilized to keep her from ever having children again."

Read more at: http://susiebright.blogs.com/susie_brights_journal_/2009/02/i-have-something-new-to-say-about-the-octuplet-lady-when-i-first-encountered-her-birth-story-the-eight-live-births-of-cour.html

[lightningandsnow]

1. I'm going to be annoying and self-kick this.

Susie Bright is effing brilliant.

[Darth_Kitten]

2. This woman was wrong to do this.........

but the reactions to the births just go to show how little women and motherhood is valued in our society.

People never seem to realize that for all those "single" mothers out there, there is some dude that gets off scot-free.

[LisaL]

3. Not for every single mother out there.

In octomom's case, she claims the father is a sperm donor. Sperm donors aren't financially or otherwise responsible for their offsprings, in most situations.

[Sal Minella]

4. (a) The "father" did not even use intercourse to impregnate this woman,

so "getting off scot-free" for masturbating into a cup is nothing to berate him for. It was not his idea to put his sperm into Nadya's eggs; it was her idea. He cooperated as a "friend." If he has any decency, he's horrified at Nadya's treatment of his "offspring."

(b) "Motherhood" is more than throwing great litters of helpless premature babies that the "mother" can't possibly take care of.

"Motherhood" means taking care of the children one has already given birth to. And six kids living with three adults in a tiny house does not fit this description, never mind 14.

[LisaL]

5. I seriously have no idea as to why someone would bring up

fathers who do not take care of their progeny in connection with the octomom situation. Unless we now decide that all sperm/egg donation is bad and shouldn't be done.

[Gin]

7. I read that his name is on the birth certificates of the first 6.....I am surprised it

has not been made public....the whole thing is a mess...and I feel sorry for all the kids.

[LisaL]

8. The name on the birth certificate has been made public.

[kskiska]

18. According to Nadya's father, the name on the BCs was falsified

(snip)

The children's' granddad also said that "David Solomon" - the name listed on the babies' birth certificates - is not their father. In fact, Nadya made it up, he said... "She wouldn't put the true name on there because then he wouldn't be protected or anonymous," he said. "At some point in the future, if he wants to be a part of the children's lives, I am sure she would let him."

more…
http://www.760kfmb.com/Global/story.asp?S=9827154

Also, from the same article:

Under California law, the father must sign a form to have his name on the birth certificate. But Edward Suleman contends the document was falsified. The California attorney general said falsifying a birth certificate is a felony punishable by a maximum of three years in jail.

[LisaL]

20. If the donor (whoever he is) wanted/was a part of children's lives, he might be on the hook

for child support payments. I know of a few cases where a judge ruled that a donor is responsible for child support because that donor was a part of children's lives. Child support payments for 14 kids is nothing to be happy about.

[kskiska]

23. I read that he is now married

and isn't happy with what she's done. I'd think he's want to stay as far away from her as he could.

[Stevenmarc]

6. No

The reactions don't show "how little women and motherhood is valued in our society", they show how little THIS woman and HER motherhood is valued. The reaction is not a broad brush against women and motherhood it's a laser pin point on a person who has turned her motherhood into a circus freak show.

[Big Orange Jeff]

12. ^5 to that

nm

[saltpoint]

19. Hi, Big Orange Jeff. Welcome to the DU boards.

Look forward to your posts hereabouts.

[Darth_Kitten]

25. Oh, please.........

Society loves to blame single mothers for all the problems out there.

[Stevenmarc]

30. And apparently

Society likes to play the victim too.

[lightningandsnow]

9. Yup, pretty much.

She was wrong to do it, but the comments calling her a "slut" and saying she should be sterilized are way out of line.

[LisaL]

21. I don't know who called her a slut or said she should be sterilized.

She is already infertile. She is having those kids through IVF because her tubes are plugged.

[Darth_Kitten]

26. Check out a lot of the comments by people in the media, etc.....

This Mom was WAY off base in having 8 more babies but check out how single mothers are villified. It's beyond disgusting.

[LisaL]

34. I personally think the octo-mom is criticized not just because

she is a single mother, but because she had six children (one autistic, two with learning disabilities), herself on disability because of back pain, living with her parents, getting food stamps, and yet decided to have more.

[Berry Cool]

10. To me, few of her comments make sense, and I'm a feminist.

She seems to be implying that judging Octomom is about judging another woman's irresponsible sexual behavior as connected to having children, and to do so is a double standard when we don't do the same to men. But Octomom didn't have all these kids because she had lots of sex. She had them because she wanted children and went about getting them without having sex. I don't see the connection.

I also don't think Octomom would be in for NO criticism of her behavior if she were wealthy. There are plenty of people willing to pass judgment on a woman of ANY income status for what they determine personally to be "turning her vagina into a clown car." We see it here every day on this supposedly liberal forum--Mrs. Duggar being ridiculed for having so many children, despite the fact that she and her husband have never asked for public relief to help pay for their kids. Why? Because they're fundie Christians, and fundie Christians are a group it's perfectly OK to hate and deride on DU.

What I don't get is why people become so fixated on hating Octomom and deriding everything she says and does. To me, she's a pathetic figure. True, I'd like to see her off my TV, but I really don't see her getting a lot of positive accolades or rewards that I resent from her situation. Yes, I think the fact that the taxpayer has to support her brood is ridiculous. But I don't get the death threats, and I don't get why some people can't speak their piece about her and be done with it. Why do they have to keep talking about her? Are they afraid she's the bellwether of a trend, and that all across America now, single women are going to have themselves implanted with scores of embryos to be birthed and raised on the taxpayer dime?

I doubt it. I think this is one woman with a serious mental problem. I'd like to see her get help. That's about all I can say. No need to keep repeating the obvious.

[Big Orange Jeff]

13. The bellwether of a trend?

If she gets her $2M book or TV deal, you can bet on it.

Yes, she does have a serious mental problem. Shouldn't that be part of the screening process, though, before getting reproductive assistance? If so, the doctor responsible should lose his license.

[LisaL]

16. Mental health evaluation is not a part of the screening proces for

IVF, as far as I can tell.
After all, we don't have laws by which people with mental issues aren't allowed to have children.

[emmadoggy]

31. Actually,

when my DH and I went through it several years ago, we DID, in fact, have to answer a psych questionnaire and meet with a psychologist briefly to discuss the questionnaire and discuss other related issues. When we later underwent a different procedure at a different clinic, we were required to meet with a social worker. Though neither situation was a full mental workup, it was definitely a peek into our mental states to make sure we were coping and dealing with the stresses involved and to get an overall view of our state of mind.

[bliss_eternal]

36. deleted.

.

[Big Orange Jeff]

11. Here's a question for the "Right to Life" crowd...

IF life begins and conception
AND these embryos are conceived in vitro and then planted in the host
AND some of the embryos do not survive (ostensibly because the host was incapable of sustaining it)
THEN shouldn't that be considered "murder"?
OR at least child abuse?

[KittyWampus]

17. Fundies came up with the term "Snowflake babies" and don't believe in selective reduction/abortion

in the case of multiple embryos implanting.

[KittyWampus]

14. "freak occurance"? Well, sort of. She took it to an extreme but underneath is an ugly side to IVF

that the Media STILL doesn't seem willing or able to explore.

[saltpoint]

15. I don't get the 'slut' part. I associate that slang term with

a person, male or female, who is indiscriminately carnal on short notice with whoever is more or less available, and I strongly associate the term with a more traditional and far more popular means of fertilization than the method Ms. Suleman chose.

Ms. Suleman has placed herself in an almost untenable set of circumstances. It suggests specatcularly poor judgment on her part, and/or a thought disorder (for which she has been evaluated and clinically diagnosed).

That combination does not add up in the minds of most to be responsible adult conduct, or good parenting.

Ms. Suleman needs intensive treatment which she now seems discinclined to seek and her 14 children, all under the age of 7 or 8, need support they do not seem to be likely to receive from their troubled mother.

[LisaL]

22. Susie Bright doesn't say who is calling octomom these names.

Then Susie goes on and on about men who don't support their children. While there might be plenty of men who don't support their children, WTF does it have to do with octomom. Octomom got impregnanted through IVF and the father is a donor.
Normally donors aren't obligated to pay child support.

[saltpoint]

24. Agreed. I didn't think much of the passages in Bright's piece that

were so shallow.

It honestly read like a high school newspaper editorial.

[mitchum]

29. That's because Bright loves to use strawbadmen

[Avalux]

27. Octomom is a deeply disturbed woman who managed to pull off one hell of a stunt.

Now though, there are 14 children (8 preemie infants) who are dependent on a woman with no means to take care of them; she seems to have given that part of the equation very little thought.

First priority is to make sure the children are not neglected and have their basic needs met. If it means removing them from the home then so be it. Maybe that's what needs to happen, at least temporarily, so Octomom is able to receive the psychological help she needs.

The people calling names and threatening are as disturbed as her.

[mitchum]

28. Bright is grinding her customary ax...

because that's her niche or shtick or meal ticket or whatever you want to call it

[krabigirl]

32. I always like to hear a different point of view amongst the mob mentality crap.

thank goodness.

[BlooInBloo]

33. My fav is the people who agree with the critics, but bitch at the critics *anyway*....

:rofl:

[1776Forever]

35. Personally I think the Dr. that inseminated her is just as much in question - She has mental issues

and should never had been allowed to have more then 3 children. I think this is only right since she had no job and no way to take care of the children. I had 5 and had my tubes tide, it isn't like I had a choice in 1970 you had to have 5 children before they would consider doing it. This woman had the choice on how many she would have. It is a real shame these children must have to go through this circus now.

[dustbunnie]

37. I wonder if all the hate really stems from the state of the economy.

I mean who really cares about this silly woman? If we were living in good times, people flourishing left and right, would people really have such visceral reactions?

It seems to me that at least part of the outrage is related to the fact that people are getting laid off by the hundreds of thousands, losing their homes, living in fear of financial ruin, worried about feeding their kids... and here's this woman living off the state (for all intents and purposes), has received upward of $165,000 in disability plus more in student loans and lives a carefree student's life. AND on top of it, has 8 kids while looking for more handouts. It's galling. But would it be THAT galling if people weren't suffering? She's just an anomaly and barely worth noticing.