25 States Claiming / Planning Sovereignty

[RJ Connors]

There are those among us these days that clearly do not have the interest of the country in mind and seek to take a bad situation and make it worse, much worse. Makes me wonder if this has not be the Republicans game plan all along.

This morning, which is actually past noon now, I come across on of the websites of these people which I thought should be shared. This is one of the secessionist websites of which there seems to be a push on for right now.

Arrive at your own conclusions.

http://www.mrstep.com/politics/az-wa-mo-nh-ok-claiming-sovereignty/

[cliffordu]

1. Stupid, much??

:eyes:

[ixion]

4. stranger things have happened...

not saying it will, but it's not beyond the realm of possibility.

[RJ Connors]

5. Maybe so, but from where I sit even talk of such things

is not in the interest of our country right now.

[ixion]

10. Much of what has happened over the course of the last 30 years

has not been in the best interest of the country. Savings and Loan scandal, the BFEE, NAFTA, The so-called 'war' on drugs/terror, deregulation in favor of the top 1%, and on and on.

We're not exactly batting .1000.

[zombiezneedluv2]

36. Why not??? I mean, think about it:

CA is so large and populous. If there is some financial benefit to being autonomous, then I say we should encourage it! I still believe we could all be tied together somehow, but different states have different issues, so perhaps it's in their best interests. After all, this is no longer a racial issue; it is about SURVIVAL.

[geckosfeet]

20. It IS beyond the realm of possibility. At least the disgruntled have a place to go.

[ixion]

40. actually, not only is it possible, on a long enough timeline,

it's pretty much guaranteed.

[geckosfeet]

41. Yes - guarantee - in 10 million years the United States will not exist as

we know it today.

Point is - states want to pass and enforce their own laws and not be subject to federal law. I say that's fine if they keep their hands out of the federal till. Fact is, not many states want to do without federal aid. Until they become independent enough to do that, that will depend on the feds. That's why I think this is a lot of hot air.

[uppityperson]

45. I think the Op doesn't understand the difference between sovereignty and secession.

OMG! states going along with the 10th amendment! OMG OMG OMG OMOMGOM GOMG GOGM

Hasn't the sun been nice? I hear we're back to pacific northwet soon though. Ready for spring here. I want to plant my garden, just got seeds for it.

[cliffordu]

50. Yep - the weather has been spectacular....I get the feeling that we are going to

get breakfast for lunch....

You know.... February in march.....Hooboy....

[backscatter712]

2. Colorado?

We've got a Democratic governor and a solidly Democratic state legislature - I'd think they'd be supporting Obama rather than pulling stunts.

Of course, the Republicans might have a resolution introduced, but it would quietly be tabled in committee.

[notesdev]

17. Feds break the compact regularly

not surprised states are getting fed up with it. The Constitution doesn't organize the states as inferior to the federal government, it divides labor between them. For most intents and purposes the states are supposed to be independent political entities, not subordinate ones. This independence was once recognized in the establishment of 2 Senators per state, before the 22nd Amendment. Having given up that privilege, the states have lost power continuously ever since.

[slampoet]

34. You're right. Federalism is becoming much too federal.

[seemslikeadream]

3. It's a new gentler kinder Civil War

[SheilaT]

6. I'm not sure I completely understand

what they're talking about. Are they thinking that passing some kind of resolution will exempt them from federal laws? I rather doubt it. And I don't think anyone will be sending in federal troops any time soon. This is typical nut-case thinking, magical thinking, as if wishing something makes it true.

[L. Coyote]

7. They are after the public lands for the mineral wealth. Same old Cheney plan to

remove mineral ownership from governments, except this one focuses on the USA instead of foreign states.

[Selatius]

8. Google the "9 Nations of North America."

To be clear, Joseph Garreau didn't call for secession, but he merely divided the nation up into several regions in order to highlight the differences in cultural attitudes and beliefs from one region to the next. Conventional national and state boundaries are artificial and largely irrelevant as far as culture goes in his view.

[Posteritatis]

12. I'll second this - it's an interesting book (nt)

Joel Garreau, not Joseph, by the way.

I'd recommend anything by him, in fact. His writing casts a pretty wide net; I was surprised that the guy who wrote The Nine Nations of North America also wrote Radical Evolution, and I can definitely respect anyone who injects that kind of variety into his interests.

[RJ Connors]

15. Interesting map, thanks for posting

On first glance I would say he does not extend Mexamerica far enough north.

[Posteritatis]

18. The book was written in 1981; that probably accounts for a lot with the map (nt)

[RJ Connors]

28. Thanks, I will have to take a look at his book sometime. n/t

[RB TexLa]

30. I agree DFW fits much better with Mexamerica.

[davsand]

21. Looks like he pretty much got Illinois divided correctly.

There is a HUGE difference in attitude between the north and south ends of the state. There always has been really. During the Civil War the south end of Illinois was VERY southern--to the point that the southern sympathizers were called "Copperheads." I can very easily see how Illinois could split out that way even today.*

I look at that map and wonder if maybe Obama has been reading up on Lincoln for more than just inspiration.


***What follows is intended as humor but it is a GRIM humor***


* Let somebody else deal with Chicago for a while. They can HAVE Little Dick, Blago and the entire Chicago machine! Might be the ONLY way we ever manage to clean up IL Politics.


Laura

[Tashca]

49. Your right

When I first saw this map I thought they had Illinois divided very close to the way I saw it.
I lived in the Springfield area for a few years (which I loved by the way). When we would have a state wide meeting I couldn't believe the difference in culture from North to South. If I hadn't seen it for myself I would have a hard time understanding.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

31. Can we in "Ecotopia" leave now? Please?

[AZ Criminal JD]

39. Yes, feel free to leave anytime.

[leftstreet]

46. Fellow Ectopian here. Yes, when do these changes go into effect?!

:toast:

[L0oniX]

9. Ah well then I guess they don't need the FEDERAL stimulus money.

[Frustratedlady]

11. Crazy thing is, a lot of their complaints are the same as ours.

Did you read some of the articles that were posted? Most against Bush and his cabal, as well as exposing where a lot of the money got off to for NCLB, Iraq, etc.

This must have been going for a while. I see an article in there on the Spitzer NYTimes exposure of the OCC being told not to investigate this housing mess, for one.

Interesting to see how this turns out. Is this what Obama was referring to yesterday when he gave that stern warning about taking action? I wasn't able to keep up with the news...so much and so little time.

[RJ Connors]

24. Is this what Obama was referring to yesterday?

Do you have a link for that speech?

I would have to agree with you that some of the complaints have some foundation to them. And at some point a secessionist movement might even be appropriate, although I think one would be well advised to take a long, hard, look at how the last one turned out. The problem is, as the method being employed to currently promote this particular movement, its primary goal is to stir up conflict among the masses, an example of rabble rousing, an God knows we have a large clueless rabble that can be aroused to hysterical heights over basically nothing. i.e such claims as Christians our being persecuted. However, four weeks into a new presidency is not the time to do such and really has little to do with adherence to an ideological position as it does to do with destroying a presidency before it has a chance to work.

It should be noted that in the 60's when the military industrial complex was coming to be established in a firm position in America, those who stood up against it and had some position and credibility, i.e. John Kennedy, Robert Kennedy, and Martin Luther King, were murdered for doing so. We now have a president who has the highest risk of assassination since JFK and these kinds of tactics appear to be more geared toward rousing the passions and hatreds of the ideological driven, and intellectually vacant, more than anything else.

While mainstream Christianity has been useless in speaking out against these people, mainstream civil polity should not commit the same error.

[Frustratedlady]

47. Well said. I totally agree.

I am particularly concerned that they will get them fired up and some nut will jump in to save the world...or, his little corner of it...by doing something we'll all regret. Only then will you hear all the, "Oh, my!" - "We shoulda, coulda.." and see them put on their show in public like they did in 1963.

I guess the best we can do is stop it where we can.

[havocmom]

25. A lot of complaints come from US. Medical Marijuana laws, assisted suicide, NO to real ID

All those are against federal policy, but lots of DEMS in lots of states defend those local variances from the feds.

edited for typo

[Upton]

13. Ridiculous

Washington state has a Democratic Governor and legislature, nothing like this is going to happen

[Thor_MN]

14. I'm underwhelmed

A Bill introduced by a right wing whack job, with total support of 16 of 134 representatives doesn't mean a whole lot. If any on the other states on this map have the same situation as Minnesots, this is a complete non-story, other than to point out the wingnuts are everywhere.

[RJ Connors]

26. It's not about getting a bill passed and made into law.

It's about stirring up hatred within a certain segment of society.

Such as can be evidenced here: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2190770/posts

[ThomWV]

16. These are the silly mutterings of the eternally adolescent

This nation is not going to be breaking up any time soon. Anyone who honestly thinks this is even the most remote of possibilities is simply foolish and not worth paying a bit of attention to.

[RJ Connors]

29. True, but keep in mind, these eternally adolescent

put a clueless fascist in charge of the country for 8 years therefore, they have the potential to bring more destruction to our country.

[charlie and algernon]

19. this is nothing but shit stirring

Maryland has a bill introduced this year that declares federal reserve notes as constitutional and orders the US to go back to the gold standard. :eyes:

Just because it was introduced doesn't mean it has a chance in hell of even getting out of committee or that it will even get a committee hearing date.

[mahina]

22. That little green chain of islands you have there?

The one that says it's 'done'?
Neva. Happen.

[opihimoimoi]

27. Its the 2nd stage in the AGE of STUPID

[havocmom]

23. Here in Montana, the people said NO! to Real ID, and our gov backed us up

He won the dispute with the feds, by the way. Sometimes advocating states' rights is a good thing. Our gov he is a DEM, by the way. You may remember him as the regular looking guy who had the crowd really going at the Convention last summer.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

42. We were not given the option on Real ID in NY. Paterson signed it into law.

I am so pissed about it.

[Waiting For Everyman]

32. Just another destroy America scheme.

There are so many. They also currently like the "let's monkey around with editing the Constitution" one. Then there's the bankrupt us one. And also the "strip us of manufacturing" one. Then there's the "steal all our jobs" one. There's the "privatize everything" one. It's all the same people promoting the same thing... as much failure as possible, by the corporatists who have a big problem with a strong and united American public. Always have.

[Fire1]

33. I could have sworn they'd all be southern states! n/t.

[SoxFan]

35. Wingnuttery

The NH version, House Continuing Resolution 6, was voted Inexpedient To legislate by the Committee on State-Federal Relations & Veterans Affairs. The sponsors are fringe righties, so this thing has little chance of passing the Democratically controlled full House.

This is nothing more than political self-pleasuring for a collection of Christian Rightists, Free Staters, and gun fanatics.

[janx]

37. Yep. It gives the fringe something to do. n/t

[Blue_In_AK]

38. I don't know what this means exactly.

Are you talking about states having laws or policies that are in conflict with national laws and policies, like the fact that by state law, possession of less than an ounce of marijuana in Alaska has been legal since 1975?

In that case, I'm all for sovereignty. :smoke:

[uppityperson]

44. I think the OP does not understand what this is about, confuses sovereignity with sussession.

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. "

"The Tenth Amendment (Amendment X) of the United States Constitution, which is part of the Bill of Rights, was ratified on December 15, 1791. The Tenth Amendment restates the Constitution's principle of Federalism by providing that powers not granted to the National government nor prohibited to the states are reserved to the states and to the people."

[SoxFan]

43. BREAKING: Co-sponsor in NH arrested, resigns!

http://www.bluehampshire.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=6563

CONCORD, N.H. (AP) - A first-term New Hampshire state senator has resigned after being arrested on drunken driving charges.

Republican William Denley of the Sanbornville section of Wakefield said he will be too distracted to appropriately perform his duties in the Senate. He represents 17 towns in the eastern part of the state.

[RJ Connors]

48. Oh that is too good. And he was one of the co-sponsors of HRC-6.

I guess what they say is true, Karma is a bitch.