Socialized Medicine

[elocs]

ttp://www.healthbeatblog.org/2007/10/the-real-danger.html

Emanuel notes that “ ‘socialized medicine’ is when the doctors are state employees; when the hospitals, drugstores, home health agencies and other facilities are owned and controlled by the government…” As Emanuel rightly points out, none of the universal coverage proposals being debated in the U.S. today “can be characterized as socialized medicine. None calls for government ownership or control over U.S. hospitals, drugstores or home health agencies, or for making doctors employees of the federal or state governments.”

This is right on the money—maybe even more so than Emanuel intends. Opponents of “socialized” medicine are wrong three times over: not only do most reformers not want socialized medicine, but even European health care systems (often used as examples of socialized medicine) do not meet the criteria outlined above. Further, publicly-run health care carries with it some significant benefits that are evident right here in the U.S.

-----------------------------snip------------------------------

Other countries are similarly nuanced in their approach to health care. When critics of health care reform refer to European health care systems as “socialized” medicine, they seek to disrupt a potentially productive dialogue about reform options.

In the meantime, if you really want to talk about a system that is truly “socialized,” you’ll find it right here in the U.S in the veterans' health-care system, which is wholly owned and operated by the federal government--much to the delight of its patients.

Medicare=single payer health coverage, and it is not socialized medicine.
Veterans Administration healthcare=socialized medicine.

Ask anti universal healthcare opponents if they want to get rid of VA healthcare because it is socialized medicine, then explain that single payer healthcare is like Medicare and it is not socialized medicine.

[freedom_to_think]

1. "Socialized Medicine"

Ask people in Canada and Europe how horrible "FREE" healthcare is.

Let's see what Republican fuck wipe Zaxk Wamp has to say:

http://freedom-2-think.blogspot.com/2009/03/right-to-healthcare.html

[Hugabear]

6. I'm sure the right-wing propaganda machine can give you a few extreme examples

Ask any right-winger, they'll tell you horror stories about Canadian or European health care. Of course, none of these are from first-hand knowledge, they don't actually KNOW anybody who has had problems. Just what they've heard from their Right-wing Radio Puppet-masters, or read from their circle-jerk emails.

[elocs]

7. You will find any member of the anti universal healthcare chorus singing about how

they have a cousin in Canada who hates their healthcare system or they heard about somebody else who had to wait months and months for a test or procedure.

91% of Canadians prefer their healthcare system over ours: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5193293&mesg_id=5193293

Why wouldn't they?

[JuniperLea]

2. Every European and Canadian I know...

Tells me we are idiots for the way we handle our healthcare.

[elocs]

3. Is national health insurance socialized medicine?

http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_faq.php#socialized

No. Socialized medicine is a system in which doctors and hospitals work for and draw salaries from the government. Doctors in the Veterans Administration and the Armed Services are paid this way. The health systems in Great Britain and Spain are other examples. But in most European countries, Canada, Australia and Japan they have socialized health insurance, not socialized medicine. The government pays for care that is delivered in the private (mostly not-for-profit) sector. This is similar to how Medicare works in this country. Doctors are in private practice and are paid on a fee-for-service basis from government funds. The government does not own or manage medical practices or hospitals.

The term socialized medicine is often used to conjure up images of government bureaucratic interference in medical care. That does not describe what happens in countries with national health insurance where doctors and patients often have more clinical freedom than in the U.S., where bureaucrats attempt to direct care.

Won't this result in rationing like Canada?

The U.S. already rations care. Rationing in U.S. health care is based on income: if you can afford care, you get it; if you can’t, you don’t. A recent study by the prestigious Institute of Medicine found that 18,000 Americans die every year because they don’t have health insurance. Many more skip treatments that their insurance company refuses to cover. That’s rationing. Other countries do not ration in this way.

If there is this much rationing, why don’t we hear about it? And if other countries ration less, why do we hear about them? The answer is that their systems are publicly accountable, and ours is not. Problems with their health care systems are aired in public; ours are not. For example, in Canada, when waits for care emerged in the 1990s, Parliament hotly debated the causes and solutions. Most provinces have also established formal reporting systems on waiting lists, with wait times for each hospital posted on the Internet. This public attention has led to recent falls in waits there.

In U.S. health care, no one is ultimately accountable for how the system works. No one takes full responsibility. Rationing in our system is carried out covertly through financial pressure, forcing millions of individuals to forego care or to be shunted away by caregivers from services they can’t pay for.

The rationing that takes place in U.S. health care is unnecessary. A number of studies (notably a General Accounting Office report in 1991 and a Congressional Budget Office report in 1993) show that there is more than enough money in our health care system to serve everyone if it were spent wisely. Administrative costs are at 31% of U.S. health spending, far higher than in other countries’ systems. These inflated costs are due to our failure to have a publicly financed, universal health care system. We spend about twice as much per person as Canada or most European nations, and still deny health care to many in need. A national health program could save enough on administration to assure access to care for all Americans, without rationing.

[freedom_to_think]

4. Healthcare

If our system of HMO's, referrals, no coverage for pre-existing conditions is so glorious then why aren't the insurance companies hopping over to Europe and Canada. Oh wait, that's because the people there don't get jerked around by insurance companies.

[silverweb]

5. Yup.

My mom's always raving about how wonderful the VA is with my dad (WW2 vet) and how "they take care of everything" -- but she goes ballistic when anyone mentions universal health care, saying "I don't want socialized medicine!"

I've explained the difference multiple times, but the knee-jerk, 1950's anti-communist reaction is so ingrained that she just doesn't get it.

:banghead:

[Steve Jay]

8. Health Care

Hi,

Ah, socialised medicine.

I have always been a defender of it.

I am proud of the concept of the National Health Service in the UK, even if there is massive room for improvement, as with all things.

However, in any progressive and civilised nation, you ensure that the health of your people is a number one priority.

National insurance contributions, based on income, fund the NHS, and ensure that everyone is entitled to the same level of care as any other, no matter their status, financially.

Only a v cold hearted person would want it any other way, and yet, from speaking with so many in the US, it appears that so many cannot wrap their head around the idea, indeed, they are positively hostile toward it.

I find this a curious difference in UK and US culture, the fact that we are proud of the concept of the NHS, and so many in the US become almost aggressive if you propose something akin to it there.

Anyway, thanks for reading, and just my tuppence worth.

[freedom_to_think]

9. socialised medicine

I welcome it with open arms. The money that comes out of my paycheck per month for healthcare for my family is more than a car payment. And it gets higher and higher each year while my coverage amounts are lowered. Fuck Aetna, Blue Cross, Cigna and the rest of the insurance bastards who have ruined so many peoples live who had insurance.

Go ask Nataline Sarkisyan how she feels about having Cigna,

Oh, wait she died because they refused coverage of a much needed liver transplant for the 17 year old.

http://freedom-2-think.blogspot.com/2008/01/stupid-is-as-faux-news-does_16.html