I am an expert on education because...

[rucky]

Poll question: I am an expert on education because...

[Motown_Johnny]

1. my mother was a teacher for 38 years, and I am no expert on education

[BlooInBloo]

2. Option: "I'm a product of the American educational system."

[ColbertWatcher]

3. I've never claimed to be an expert in education.

Neither have I claimed to be an expert on Iraq.

But, I know we should never have invaded them and I know we shouldn't privatize education.

(There are facts to back up my assertions for both situations.)

[paulsby]

11. bingo

if the requirement to comment on an institution is expertise, then few people would be justified in decrying

1) police brutality
2) medical malpractice
3) pharmaceutical company hijinx

or any other # of topics.

fwiw, i often find that my areas of expertise give me special insight into certain topics (like (1) above), but it doesn't mean people who aren't experts have no basis for commentary.

[ColbertWatcher]

4. BTW: if expertise is needed neither Duncan nor Obama are qualified to speak on it. n/t

[sense]

5. Where's "other" or I'm not?

Or what constitutes an expert? Is that in my mind or yours, or whose?

Nowhere to go from here.

[vadawg]

6. not an expert on education, but im an expert on my kids, and the wife is even more knowledgeable

so i figure she should have a big say in their education.

[LostInAnomie]

7. I have a Master's in Secondary Education...

... and my mother was an elementary teacher for 34 years.

I still wouldn't call myself an expert in any way though. I think FAR too many people on here think that since they have the most facile connection to public schools they know it all. 99% of them have no fucking clue what it is like to be a teacher or to run a classroom. They just know that they had a "bad teacher", they've heard of "bad teachers", their child had a "bad teacher", or they think teachers are lazy.

[vadawg]

8. We should also apply the other side of that coin

just because somebodies a teacher or got a degree dosent mean that they know whats best for all kids, they just know they have had bad kids, they have heard of bad kids, or the kids are lazy. I still believe that the final arbiter of a kids education should be the parents. I know there will be occasions were the parent isnt involved but in cases were the parents are, they should decide what school and what education the kids get with guidance from the teachers.

[sense]

10. Absolutely!

[LostInAnomie]

15. Even with home schooling, parents aren't the final arbiter of their child's education.

They still have to follow the standards set by the state.

The teacher may not know what is best for all kids, but they should be respected enough as professionals that they are allowed to run their classroom as they see fit. As long as they are following the standards, the guidelines set by the school and school district, and are making sure that the students are in a safe, secure, and educational environment, they should not have to put up with added interference from the state or parents that have no clue as to the dynamics of the class. If the parent is unhappy with the education their child is receiving, they can choose to have their child moved to another room, another school (in many cases), private school, or home school. They should not be allowed to try to dictate to teachers how they are going to run their classroom.

[vadawg]

16. sorry, but i am trusting you with my kids, and i sure as hell have a say in how you run your classro

i hate to break it to you but there is no way in hell my kids are gonna be handed over to you to teach as you see fit, you may not like this but we take an active interest in our kids and that includes what they are being taught and by who and i am not giving that up.

[LostInAnomie]

23. And, I hate to break it to you, but you don't have a say in what they are taught.

Neither do teachers.

Teachers have to follow the standards set by the state. It's kind of the law.

If you don't like how your child is being taught, exercise the options I posted earlier.

[vadawg]

27. darn right, and thats the problem with education in the US, we should get schools back to the local

level, let parents have a say, make the schools accountable for when they fail students and give plaudits when they elevate.

[LostInAnomie]

29. Right, that would be a great idea.

Then parents would have no legal recourse when their local school board decides not to teach about evolution, or thinks that Algebra is just too darn hard for their district.

But, then again, without state standards, teachers wouldn't have to worry about yearly assessment tests or NCLB.

[vadawg]

30. yeah because we all know that parents are dumb, and only the higher ups are smart enough to educate

this is what pisses me off, why is their a fear of actually putting educational choices back to the local level, make parents and the local community responsible for the successes and the failures of their schools. the current system dosent seem to work and throwing more money at the problem isnt going to help either.

[LostInAnomie]

32. We aren't afraid of it...

... it's just a ridiculous idea.

If the local level were in charge of standards it would be impossible to get an accurate idea of how schools are doing state wide. It would allow school districts to eliminate things like evolution, accurate portrayals of history, and the heliocentric solar system. Hell, if they wanted to they could make it mandatory for students to learn that blacks are inferior to whites. If no one but the local school board were in charge who could stop them.

The local community wouldn't be responsible for the failures. We all would when they can't find a job because of the shitty local choices.

[vadawg]

33. all good points that you made, and i agree to an extent, but what about giving the power to school

boards of parents to hire and fire teachers etc, to direct what sports and arts programs, to allow schools to be religiously based etc, wheres the problem with letting the parents become the driving force behind the school. Dosent everyone want the parents to become involved in the education of their kids, and wouldnt making the proverbial village become involved help also.

[LostInAnomie]

35. I can think of a lot of reasons to not allow school boards and parents...

... to have the ability to hire and fire without going through the established procedure. Parents hold grudges, school board members have kids that want teaching jobs, a good coach wants a job in the district but there aren't any open positions, etc.

There are schools that are allowed to be religiously based. They are called private schools. The First Amendment prevents public schools from being religiously based.

The problem with letting parents dictate what goes on in the schools is that it completely takes away any control that a teacher over a class, or an administrator has over a school. It is the same as saying "You are not professionals. Your education and professional standards are irrelevant. We will tell you how you should do your job."

Parent's should get involved with their child's education. They should help them out with homework, push them to do better at school, ask teachers what they think they can do at home to help improve the child's education, etc. They should not presume they know better than the teacher as to how they run their classroom.

[vadawg]

36. I give up, i guess we should all just do what we are told

do you have the same attitude when it comes to doctors and police etc, they are the professionals we should let them run their jail, hospital whatever their way. I am sorry but this is why the system is falling apart.

[LostInAnomie]

38. Do you presume you can tell a police officer or a doctor...

... how to do their job the same way you do a teacher?

Should we reduce a doctor's pay if their chain smoking, fast food eating patient doesn't stay healthy? Or, expect police officers produce a crime free city no matter what the environment?

[vadawg]

39. trust me everybody thinks they can tell cops how to do their jobs

And at least the local popo has accountability, your unhappy with them get a new sheriff elected, with schools it looks like your telling me that as a parent i just have to do what you tell me, or pay for private school. Seems to me the person with the power should be the parents, if they are unhappy they are the ones who should have options.

[LostInAnomie]

40. So teacher's aren't accountable?

They aren't evaluated by administrators? They don't have codes of conduct to follow? They don't have standards they have to follow? They aren't required to attend workshops and take courses? They aren't required get their Masters in order to keep their license? Their performance isn't assessed through standardized tests? They don't have to go before the publicly elected school board if they violate a rule? Please... teachers are held just as accountable as police officers are.

What do you propose a teacher do for your child? Teach 23 different versions of the same standard to satisfy the wishes of every parent in a class?

[vadawg]

As you have stated i dont have a say in how you run your classroom

as i have stated thats wrong, as the parent i should have the final say in what happens in your classroom, i am not here to meet your needs you are here to meet the needs of my child, unfortunately you seem to believe that as a parent i should aquiesce to what you believe my child needs and i disagree, no wonder more and more parents are home schooling or going private if this is what we can expect if we dare to disagree with the education system.

[vadawg]

41. As you have stated i dont have a say in how you run your classroom

as i have stated thats wrong, as the parent i should have the final say in what happens in your classroom, i am not here to meet your needs you are here to meet the needs of my child, unfortunately you seem to believe that as a parent i should aquiesce to what you believe my child needs and i disagree, no wonder more and more parents are home schooling or going private if this is what we can expect if we dare to disagree with the education system.

[LostInAnomie]

42. If you want complete say over what happen in MY classroom...

... then what is the point in even sending them to MY classroom? Why not keep them at home since you obviously have a vast knowledge of teaching strategies and techniques? I mean, it's obvious we fools in public education who went to school for this type of thing have NO CLUE as to what it takes to teach children.

Go ahead and send them to private school. Just don't be surprised when the private school teacher laughs at you and tells you to get the hell out because they don't have to put up with that "I know how to run your classroom better" crap. That's the good thing about private schools. They can turn people away.

[vadawg]

44. wow once again you know best, once again i as a parent should have a say in your classroom whether

you like it or not, and as to your skill level i have no idea but parents and kids know when they have a bad teacher on their hands. As i said with the attitude that the system knows best and parents should just lump it, no wonder parents are bailing.

[LostInAnomie]

45. Then explain to me, in your ideal world...

... how I should teach 23 different versions of the same standard to each of 7 classes throughout the day?

Afterall, that's what you are proposing.

[vadawg]

46. No i think you are missing the point, i am once again saying that as a parent i should be

encouraged to have input into the classes, power should be at the local level were as parents we can get changes that pertain to our children put in place, are you telling me that when you teach a class of 23 kids they all learn exactly the same, no they dont. If you want help then the establishment is going to have to let parents get invested in the school system rather than just being turned away with winks of we know better than you. I dont get this love affair with everything being centralised and i can understand people wanting to homeschool for a myriad of reasons, i am just so glad we are no longer under the DC school system so at least there is a chance for a good public education.

[vadawg]

crap

shite what happened

[vadawg]

deleted

i hate computers they suck

[vadawg]

17. deleted

[vadawg]

deleted

[vadawg]

18. deleted

[vadawg]

19. deleted

[sense]

22. You must never have dealt with schools, teachers, admin.,

or anything else having to do with school.

You're presenting as if these points were fact.

Parents have the final say. Children do not belong to the state, nor should we hand them over as if they did.

[LostInAnomie]

25. Parent's do have the final say as to where they go.

But, they have no say as to what is being taught. Those are in the standards set by the state and the teachers are legally bound to teacher them. If the parents don't like the standards, they can always send them to a private or charter school where they are exempt.

[sense]

9. Lumping. Not productive.

I've been reading the same posts and that's not what I'm reading. You're assuming far too much and throwing everyone in the same basket.

[LostInAnomie]

20. Really?

You mean I couldn't go on almost any thread about merit pay and find this sentence almost word for word: "I know there are great teachers out there, but there are also a lot of bad ones." Then, they will proceed to use their post about merit pay to talk about how easy it should be to fire these undefined "bad teachers", even though merit pay has nothing to do with that.

[sense]

24. Yes, really.

How many of you are there?

I keep seeing people putting words in everyone else's writing so they can just ignore any opinion but their own.

There are bad teachers and they should be fired. It's relevant. Many of those bad teachers would be the ones who'd get merit pay, depending on who's deciding and what criteria they're using.

Public schools are broken. No one on this site is saying that all teachers are bad or that all schools are bad or that all unions are bad, but they're sure being accused of it by people who want to shut up any discussion and just talk at people.

[LostInAnomie]

28. Why would these "bad teachers" get merit pay?

Wouldn't their teaching practices have to have some kind of merit and show some kind of results for them to receive MERIT pay?

Merit pay opponents aren't trying to shut down discussion. They are just insisting that the proponents actually be able to explain what a "bad teacher" is, how a teacher is totally responsible for a child they are with for less than 8 hours a day, how you can fairly quantify "merit", etc.

Merit pay proponents never have those answers. All they know is that they want the "bad teachers" fired.

[sense]

34. So, so many ways.

Corruption abounds, people lie, stats are manipulated.

[LostInAnomie]

37. Right...

Then what would be the actual point of merit pay if it all could be so easily manipulated?

[sandnsea]

12. Nobody is an expert on education

Because we don't measure the success and failure of various education models and curriculums in this country.

[lapfog_1]

13. I'm smarter than you, for the collective you.

At least probability says that I am.

:)

[bertman]

14. I am a expert on education becawse I mutrickulatid.

[lutefisk]

21. Too many people who simply attended school presume to be experts on education

Parents don't presume to have the expertise of a pediatrician

People who have been to court don't presume to have the expertise of an attorney

People who have picked out cabinets for their kitchen don't presume to have the expertise of an architect or engineer

and on and on . . .

[sense]

26. That probably relates to the whole

Let's improve their self esteem meme that was so popular. Regardless of anything, you should feel good about what you accomplished. You've accomplished nothing? No problem, you're a great guy.

Public school.

[EFerrari]

31. LOL!

:applause:

ETA: And because I just know I'm right. :)

[last_texas_dem]

43. Because my hard-earned tax dollars are stolen in order to pay the overinflated

salaries of those unaccountable government teat-suckers who dare to call themselves "teachers." And don't even get me started on those corrupt union bosses of theirs...

(Oh, wait, this isn't Libertarian Underground? Shit. Sorry 'bout that; it's been kinda hard to tell lately... :scared:)

[JVS]

47. of the massive chip I carry on my shoulder from a childhood experience with a mean teacher

:sarcasm:

[Midlodemocrat]

48. OMG!!!!!!! It is NOT Easter!!!!!!

:rofl:

[JVS]

49. Sundays aren't part of Lent.

[Midlodemocrat]

50. I better go back into the lounge and erase all those

'Who else thinks JVS is a right wing hack?' posts.

We'd never done the whole Sundays aren't part of Lent thing.

Good to see you.

[QC]

54. EXCELLENT ANSWER! Have you ever seen so much tedious psychodrama

as what we have been exposed to the past few days from people who are convinced that all teachers are evil because all those years ago Miss Fernblatt told them to raise their hands before asking questions?

[saltpoint]

51. I hope Tony Perkins isn't lurking on DU today.

Or any other day, for that matter.

[etherealtruth]

52. I am not an expert on anything

I am informed and listen to those knowledgeable (not exclusive to DU) and I have formulated opinions and share them in threads looking for discussion.

[Lost in CT]

53. You need I dated teachers section....

Because their bitching about work gives one quite the insight.