I'm NEVER going to the fucking emergency room again!!!

[Subdivisions]

God damn it! WE NEED A NATIONAL HEALTH CARE PROGRAM

NOW!!!

Last week I had an episode. It was the third time it's happened. I was feeling a pressure in my chest and that was followed by waves of dizziness and then that was followed by a rapid and pounding heartbeat. Scared the shit outta me.

Sooo...I went to the emergency room. The symptoms had faded by the time I arrived. I don't have health insurance but they commenced to triaging me anyway. They hooked me up to all these machines and tested my blood and told me they didn't find anything wrong and said it might just be hypertension. BUT...just in case..."we want to keep you overnight and monitor your situation and take some more blood samples and run tests..."

I have been very stressed out. Some of you may remember that a recent attempt to reunite with my teenaged daughters in Virginia ended in them being "not ready" for such a reunion. I have since returned to Texas where I was basically homeless as my S/O, whom I was about to ask to marry me, had decided that I took too much time dealing with my daughter situation. So, she broke up with me while I was still in Virginia. So, when I got back to Texas, I had to stay on her brother's couch until I could get my own place. I have now gotten my own place but doing so has drained every spare cent I had. And, my spirit is also drained behind all of this.

So, I thought I was having some sort of heart problem and went to the emergency room. And now the bill has arrived.

$4588.72!!!

And, to make matters worse, the hospital's Financial Counselor says they don't make payment arrangements and that the entire amount must be paid within 90 days or it will be reported to the credit bureaus! If there was nothing wrong with me one hour after arriving at the emergency room, then why the hell did they keep me overnight and well into the next day? Now I'm stuck with a bill that is going to end up on my credit record because there's no way now that I'm on my own and paying my bills alone that I can pay it within that time period. This really sucks and my life in general is sucking bad too.

Something HAS TO BE DONE about this so that people can get medical care they need without it ruining their credit! I was looking at my credit report the other day and the ONLY bad marks I have on there are medical bills that I just haven't been able to pay! Now this!

I'm at my wit's end!

Edited to add: This was http://www.texashealth.org/">Texas Health hospital.

[aquart]

1. Send it to your congressman.

[LSdemocrat]

5. And your state rep, state senator, state AG, county/city reps, BBB, and anyone else you can think of

Start getting on the phone and try to put some pressure on these guys if you can.

[Subdivisions]

19. I will. This is outrageous. And to keep me there running up a bill after

finding my blood test negative and only a mildy high blood pressure and heart rate, which they attributed to hypertension, is unconscienable.

[aquart]

76. Since public rage is making them nervous...

Let them know it's a movable feast.

[Deja Q]

77. Maybe the AIG execs too.

Hate to say it, but sending the congresscritters the bill MIGHT do something positive. :( I mean, they are supposed to represent the people and not their own self-interests, which is why we elect them, right?

[Muttocracy]

2. what a nightmare

I hope some DUer has a clever way to get you help paying for those.

:hug:

[Liberal_in_LA]

3. Take a breath... You already have medical bills on your credit report. This would just be one more.

Don't make yourself ill over money. PLEASE!

[Skittles]

4. they don't make any kind of payment arrangements?

WTF? They think everyone just has all kinds of spare cash laying around? This sounds as ridiculous as the bill.

[Subdivisions]

9. I told the lady, the financial counselor, that it was ridiculous and that

I thought I was having a heart attack. I asked her what I was supposed to do, fall over and die? She was apologetic, of course, "but...do you have a credit card or some other way to pay this today?"

Cold hearted....

[Naturyl]

6. It sounds like you may have had a panic attack.

If so, 5 minutes of breathing into a paper bag would have taken care of it - or at worst, a Xanax.

Personally, I'd throw that bill straight in the trash and let the chips fall where they may. $4588 is highway robbery and is immoral and (IMO) illegitimate.

It's just crazy. We need real health care now.

[amerikat]

27. Don't let the chips fall where they may.

First negotiate the price, then negotiate a payment plan. If you just ignore it
it will go to a collection agency. Better to deal with the hospital. I have been
there and know. Good luck.

[NaturalHigh]

7. Can you pay $25 per month?

If so, try to pay it. A lot of hospitals say that they can't make payment arrangements, but they'll usually cave in when they see that you are able to pay just a little bit, which is a lot better than nothing.

By the way, I agree that yes, you got screwed on the whole deal.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

22. Sounds like she got excellent care, how did she get screwed?

Unless of course you mean by the system.

David

[Subdivisions]

32. I'm a he. I got screwed because they diagnosed me with hypertension

but kept me in the hospital overnight and ran several more blood tests and ran my bill up before discharging me with the doctor's recommendation of an OTC aspirin regimen.

Another thing about this hospital visit. I had had a cough for 6 weeks when I went to the emergency room and told them I wanted to be checked out for that too. The doctor's response: "You probably have bronchitis and we'll prescribe antibiotics for that." This was at 11pm the night I went and I was handed over to the morning doctor the next morning. When I was discharged, there was no prescription for my cough. That was last week. I am now in week seven of this cough.

So, not only did they (perhaps) screw me on the whole deal, but I still have a chronic cough and a bill of $4500.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

42. They told you it might be hypertension.

It might have also been a heart attack that's why they ran your cardiac enzymes and kept you overnight. My apologies for the gender confusion don't know where I got that. In the future remember you can always sign yourself out against medical advice. I'm not making light of your situation, if you were one of my parents I would want the ER doctors to do the exact same thing as they did in your case.


David

[FloridaJudy]

67. You're absolutely right, Dave.

It most likely was a panic attack, but it could very well have been an MI. Sometimes it takes hours before a cardiac emergency can be ruled out: enzyme/EKG changes may not be apparent at first. The doctors did exactly what they should have.

I can appreciate why the patient is ticked, though. Almost five thousand bucks is a hell of a lot of money to pay for being told there's nothing much wrong with you. And hospital collection agencies are getting nasty these days - I was once told by one that I needed to sell my house! And that was back when I had relatively decent insurance that had already paid them.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

70. I understand his anger. I have been there.

I owed $8k in college from appendicitis. I took me 5 years to pay it off.

[NaturalHigh]

36. What he said.

[Sherman A1]

72. Bingo!

This is exactly what you call back and tell them you are going to do. $25.00 per month. I suspect that you will find them more willing to work out a deal.

[ejpoeta]

80. as long as you are trying to make an attempt to pay, i do not believe they can do anything.

i definitely would call back and talk to someone in the billing department. tell them that you WANT to pay your bill, but who has that kind of money!!! and it's really good for a person's health to have to be worrying about medical bills. Tell them that if they are willing to make payment arrangements with you then you are more than willing to pay the bill.

[datasuspect]

98. no they won't

default on a bill is still default. they'll sell it to a 3rd party collector.

there is no financial incentive for any creditor to "work with you." that $25 here or there wouldn't even amount to the payment they'd get from people who buy debt.

they just sell the debt, recoup something and go along their merry way. the consumer gets caught in debt collection hell with the same debt being sold two or three times. it takes on a life of its own. that way the debt never goes away, even after the 7-10 year time period elapses.

[leftstreet]

8. Single Payer Healthcare NOW!

So sorry about your situation

[Schema Thing]

10. Negotiate, negotiate, negotiate.

right now they're squeezing you.


but if they are going to mess up your credit anyway, what is your motivation to pay? Ask them to reduce the amount to 700.00 and give you a payment plan of 50.00 per month.

[Liberal_in_LA]

18. Yes, they feeling you out, see if you are chump enough to pay $4.5k for one day in hospital

[Mojorabbit]

31. That is pretty cheap

for a nights stay and a full cardiac workup. The refusal to take payments is outrageous.

[47of74]

11. Try legal aid too. And the court of public opinion.

It can't hurt to try legal aid. Maybe if they find that you have a lawyer they'll find a way to make arrangements.

And I'd be telling my story to every two bit newspaper, radio station, tv station, and blogger within a fifty goddamn mile radius!

[madrchsod]

12. i did the same thing but i stayed overnight in icu....

16,000+ for a chest wall pull. i got lucky because my wife and i made under the hospitals charity limits so my bill was paid in full.

[Subdivisions]

26. Speaking of charity, they figured in what they call "indigent healthcare allowance" or

some such. The actual bill before figuring in an indigency discount was $6555.31! I'm damn lucky I guess that I got a nearly $2000 discount. But, if I'm indigent enough to get a $2000 discount, how the hell to they suppose I can pay $4500?

This system is crazy and it's broken!

[dkf]

13. Ironically I bet that is less than 1 year's health insurance expense.

You are probably ahead of people that do have health insurance.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

14. It sounds like they performed the test they are supposed to.

Honestly it sounds like you got great care. My state has a law that says that as long as you pay $25 a month on a bill they cannot turn it over to collections. The hospitals don't like to tell you about that law though. Check around and see if your state has something similar.

David

[BanzaiBonnie]

33. That's my understanding too

Don't know if they have that in Texas though.

My understanding is that many places $25 a month and they can't dun you. Don't EVER miss a payment though.

[Subdivisions]

34. I will check it out, David. Thanks for the advice. n/t

[K Gardner]

113. You are correct. As an ER Nurse, they not only did what they SHOULD, they did what they HAD to. Pt

goes to ER c/o "chest pain and rapid heart rate, dizziness, etc". This is a constellation of symptoms that calls for Cardiac Protocol, which is exactly what the OP got. A normal EKG is not necessarily a final indicator. Cardiac markers have to be drawn and sometimes, even with a heart attack, one of those markers will continue to rise over 6 hours.

The hospital would have been LIABLE had they NOT done what they did. It amazes me that people get the care they ask for and then complain about it. I see it every. single. night.

Now, for the other question.. YES - SINGLE PAYER NOW ! And the person who threatened them financially should be reported. Payment arrangements can be made.

But the ER did what they were supposed to do and had to do.

[Warpy]

15. Heart disease can kill

and that actually wasn't that bad a bill, considering the soft ruleout for a heart attack. The serial enzyme tests (your blood tests), the monitor, and all the other stuff aint cheap. It just beats dead.

What you do need to do with them is tell them they can't get blood out of a rock and that they will have to set up a payment plan. They will bitch and moan but they will do it. Either that, or you'll have to set up a plan with a collection agency.

The hospital will likely rather deal with you directly since they get pennies on the dollar for every debt they sell to collection. Most likely they're posturing, trying to see how much they can get you to cough up quickly.

As for your heart, it sounds like you've got one form or other of tachycardia, a $5 word for rapid heartbeat. If it's above the ventricles, it's unpleasant but not dangerous unless it lasts more than an hour. One way you can get yourself out of a rapid heartbeat (although not 100%) is to COUGH, a real window rattler cough.

If it's arising in the ventricles (less likely), it can be very serious. If it's ever accompanied by nausea, cold sweat, or pain down your left arm or in your jaw, call 911.

Remember, you can do only what you can do. Send them what you can when you can, even if it's just ten bucks a week.

[Gregorian]

35. I'll second this.

And thanks for prompting me to go back to my books. I thought v tach when sustained resulted in blacking out. But no. Although arrhythmias aren't fully understood, it does sound like that is what was going on.

I'm disturbed by the low quality medical I see in areas that aren't adjacent to high level universities. I studied under the man who started the cardiology division at Stanford university. And to live in a small town is just depressing. I would love to see our tax dollars shifted from military over to medical. Because otherwise I don't expect higher quality regardless of how the system is configured. There's a chance he had v. tach. Although it's pretty hard to discover something that isn't presenting itself at the moment.

Argh, I love cardiology. I can't help but reply. Hope you don't mind.

[Warpy]

103. Actually, SVT is more likely than VT

and is less likely to turn into something lethal. I've seen stable patients with VT, but they're few and far between.

[emilyg]

37. Good post.

[Subdivisions]

38. Thanks for that, Warpy. Makes alot of sense. I just opened the bill

before posting and was floored. It's just the fact that they kept me even after diagnosing hypertension. I'm not complaining about the care. It was fast and excellent. But, if there was nothing really seriously wrong with me, why keep me overnight, keeping me up all night coming for more blood, etc., if it was just a panic attack? That's my beef with the bill.

[Warpy]

101. They kept you all night to rule out bursts

of tachycardia and to make sure your serial enzyme tests didn't show heart damage.

This is good and prudent care. They did their jobs well.

[JTFrog]

79. The fact that we can stare a $5k health bill in the face and say "that actually wasn't that bad"

makes my head spin.

It ain't cheap is right. For Profit "healthcare" is stealing lives (whether your heart is still beating or not) by the millions.

[Warpy]

100. I've been uninsurable since 1987

Tell me about it.

Our system sucks.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

16. I K&Rd your post - I'm so sorry about what happened - you're 100% correct

This is out of control in this country. Why did we allow the corporate types and the fascists to rule for so long? Why must people be so ignorant that they vote for these people, against their own best interests? What on earth is the matter with Americans that they can't vote in ways that help them and their future generations?

Also, may I share with you that I suffered from severe panic attacks some years back, and these SIMULATE heart attacks. In fact, the same symptoms are felt. Unless you can find a doctor to help you get medication to control your panic attacks, you might continue to suffer from these, and they're simply awful!!! I was provided with Zoloft by my doc years ago (tho by now there are much better meds for that). The medication controlled my panic attacks, so I stopped having them. After about 6 months of taking it, I slowly weaned off it. By the time I weaned off it my body had grown accustomed to NOT having panic attacks, so I never had them again.

I can tell you this much: I'm very glad you are healthy. That is very important! Also, I think good things will begin to happen after the summer is over. I just somehow have a feeling...

[MiaCulpa]

17. There is something you can do.

If you have insurance, they seldom pay the hospital's original amount billed, they have their own way of determining fair market value and they pay that and if you used health care providers in your 'network' there is no remaining balance to pay.

Just because you don't have insurance does not mean you don't deserve the same! I urge you to call and/or write your congressman with your dilemma. AND, don't forget to write Michael Moore.

I have insurance coverage, and not long ago had a hospital bill similar to yours(not the same situation w/heart) but the amount was about the same. AFTER the insurance company negotiated fair market value, the bill was cut down to under $1,000! $750 I think.

I'm not certain if the hospital can actually report you to the credit bureau in 90 days if they don't have the entire amount paid, as I have always thought as long as people made a regular effort their credit wasn't hurt. BUT, if you can at least get help getting that amount reduced to 'fair market value' perhaps you'll be able to manage a buck or two a month?

-Diane

[MiaCulpa]

20. Oh, and I'm so sorry you had to go through all this!

Good thoughts headed your way.

[Liberal_in_LA]

24. Good advise. My insurance covered visit to emerg room was $300. If I hadn't had

insurance they'd be trying to get $3000 from me.

[Subdivisions]

40. Thanks, MiaCulpa. And thanks everyone for your input. I'm taking notes. n/t

[NYC_SKP]

21. How much would it have cost if you were an undocumented alien?

In my city we have a very high number of undocumented workers and their families, but not as many clinics per capita as we once had.
Emergency rooms have taken the place of regular care providers, those of us who can pay and care about our credit report are paying significantly more in order that hospitals can break even while providing service to those who pay nothing.

It's not very efficient, we may has well have single payer with better wellness services and G.Ps for all.

[TheDebbieDee]

23. Gall Bladder attack? Tightness and pain in the chest,

shortness of breath. You should check out the symptoms on webmd.com

[demigoddess]

25. also read your bill very carefully, there was a case in the paper a while back

where a guy looked at his emergency room bill and it has several things on it that they did not do to him. When he asked about it, they told him that it was for someone who had been to the emergency room before him and could not pay. They divided up the uninsured person's bill and added it to other people's bills in order to get the money. That is why people have such high bills. We have a lot of uninsured and if it were like social security and everyone paid in a little, we could cover everybody.

[Subdivisions]

41. Good advice, demi. Tomorrow, after I get over the initial shock of seeing

the bill, I'll take a more detailed look at it and begin my campaign to minimize the damage.

[MannyGoldstein]

28. Do Yourself A Favor And Move To Massachusetts

That type of thing simply doesn't happen here. We're not single-payer, but we take care of each other pretty well.

[pacalo]

29. Ignore the financial counselor's intimidation attempt & pay as much as you can afford monthly.

This shows good faith on your part.

Isn't it irritating that, as expensive as medical costs are, patients aren't told at least an estimate of what the cost of treatment will be before the services are done? After we've heeded their advice on treatment, it's like, "Surprise! You owe us $4600! Check in full only...or we'll get you!"

[Thickasabrick]

30. Exact thing happened to me. I took an ambulance and I have

insurance. The total cost was $17,000. There is such a scam going on with this crap.

[iamjoy]

39. I'm Going To Defend The Hospital

No, I won't defend the callous billing department with unrealistic expectations, but I will stand up for the ER staff.

You came in to the emergency room presenting symptoms that might be a heart attack. Now, they may have been concerned that if they had just dismissed it as hypertension because of the blood test results, released you and then you'd gone into cardiac arrest they would be liable (sued).

But, some might state, the hospital knew you didn't have insurance and still did all those expensive tests. We must also imagine how we Liberals and Progressives would react if we knew some one without insurance had gone to the ER with symptoms of cardiac arrest and released without a full battery of tests. Why should there be one standard of medical care in this country for those of means (or with insurance) and a lesser standard for those without coverage or independent means?

None of this negates the argument for single payer health care.

I hope you keep your good health, although worrying about paying a $5,000 hospital bill can't help. I would imagine that could trigger another cardiac incident...

[Subdivisions]

43. I completely understand you defense of the hospital. I just feel that

once they stood down on the red alert and diagnosed hypertension, I figured their work was done. Don't get me wrong, I'm no expert on medicine/health nor am I experienced with their liabilities. In fact, I'm not experienced much at all with health problems. My experience with health care is limited to stitches and sprained ankles, knock on wood.

What really chaps my ass is that I was second-guessing the need to go in the first place but I decided to be better safe than dead. Because it ended up being relatively benign, now I'm second-guessing my decision to go and I feel like the next time it happens (or anything other symptom), I'll think twice about his hopital bill and decide not to go.

[Systematic Chaos]

46. You keep going and doing what you have to do to keep yourself around.

I'm saying this as someone who DOES have insurance but is unable to afford the thousands in additional co-pays and supplies that I should have but won't because of finances. I could have given up and let myself die years ago, but I have a wife and four cats who are just like my little kids and we all love each other to pieces. Together they are immeasurably more important that who is and who isn't getting paid, or any of the sons of bitches who call us demanding money. My credit is completely and irreversibly shot, has been for years, and there's not a damn thing I can do about it. But I'm still trying to work on getting my health back and still hope that maybe someday I'll be able to work again.

Think about how pissed 99% of DU is with this system, and then just try and tell me that it's worth all that stress. It may take a while for you to reprogram yourself to just laugh this crap off while fighting to stay alive for the people you love and who love you, but right now that's what you really need to start doing. No arbitrary number or material thing is worth what you are going through right now, and no matter what I'm begging you to believe without any doubt whatsoever that you made the right decision going to get yourself checked! Let the doctors do what they're paid to do and fuck the bean counters and blue suits.

What you can or can't pay is utterly insignificant. What matters now more than ever is that you don't let the foolishness and lopsidedness of this system bring you down.

:hug:

[Subdivisions]

48. What a wonderful post. SC! Thank you. n/t

[Hissyspit]

44. It's insane. It's all insane. ER's, the insurance companies, the drug companies.

Single-payer universal is needed now.

[BlooInBloo]

45. If they *didn't* put you in overnight, and you *had* gotten worse, would you have sued?

[Subdivisions]

49. I am not litigious in the least. "If " is a very big word. The fact is, I've had

no further incident since the diagnosis of hypertension. As I told them at the hospital and mentioned in my OP, this was the third episode. The last was during this past Christmas holiday and the first was some five years ago. I went to find out what it was on the third such occurence. If they had sent me home that night rather than keeping me, we now know that I didn't get worse. I feel that if I had gotten worse, the first thing I would not think about is a lawsuit. But your point is made and taken.

[BlooInBloo]

51. :) We still need a decent national healthcare system, nevertheless....

Getting slammed with a $5k bill fucking sucks. :(

Glad you're feeling better, though! :)

[Subdivisions]

52. Thanks, Bloo. =) n/t

[GreenPartyVoter]

47. Dang! I went through something similar but I have MaineCare and they only kept me for 3 hours or so.

I hate that they have nailed you with this horrendous bill. :hug: My ER nurse agreed that the healthcare system is a right mess these days and just getting worse.

I wish I had a suggestion on how to get that bill taken care of. :(

[Oregone]

50. Before moving to Canada...

I remember removing a ringshanked projectile from my arm with pliers, alcohol and liquor. I wasn't going to get screwed by the hospital again.

[Subdivisions]

53. YOUCH! n/t

[terisan]

54. Don't know what your income is but the hospital has a Charity Care Application. If

Did you fill it out and then were turned down for too much income/resources?

Talk to social services and ask if there is a different office to go to for charity care evaluation.

If all else fails, write a polite letter to the head of the hospital, thanking him for the treatment you received, explain your current financial situation and what you were told by financial counselor, and ask for payment plan.

[Subdivisions]

55. Good advice and info, terisan. Thank you. n/t

[Ms. Toad]

61. Here's a link

http://www.texashealth.org/body.cfm?id=236

If that doesn't work, there are also reduced rates for uninsured:

http://www.texashealth.org/body.cfm?id=237

[grasswire]

56. I know you are not seeking medical advice here...

....and this is not medical advice but a simple suggestion to make sure that you are hydrated and properly nourished. Dehydration, caffeine, fatigue -- all of those can cause a pounding heart and palpitations. Drink lots of water and make sure that you are getting a multi-vitamin daily to keep up the levels of potassium, magnesium, and so on.

[Subdivisions]

58. Thanks for the suggestions. I really should be taking a multi-vitamin. Thanks. n/t

[McCamy Taylor]

57. I have never dealt with a hospital that would not make payment arrangements.

They would rather get money later than get it never. Call and ask to speak to someone else.

[femrap]

59. If I become ill, I will go to my

cat's vet. I'm not kidding.

[dysfunctional press]

60. an office visit at my vet is more than an office visit to my dr.

:shrug:

i'm on medicare, but my rheumatologist doesn't take it.

[femrap]

64. Go to a country vet....

I live in a rural state and can get out of the city's higher prices. And I'm not on Medicare.

Better yet....We should just go to France!

[MagickMuffin]

62. Is Texas Health a non profit hospital?.?.?

I did a google search and found a few links for non profit hospitals.

Do you know what Senate District you are in?.?.?
If you are in District 10, Wendy Davis would love to hear from you. She is the Texas Senate Democratic Rep. in District 10.

Sorry about the treatment you received from the FC. Don't let her intimidate you. Good Luck.


www.law.uh.edu/healthlaw/perspectives/(NJD)TexInsCode2179F.pdf

My google searches:

http://www.google.com/search?q=texas+laws+paying+hospital+bills&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

[tammywammy]

99. Yes it's non-profit

It's three hospitals, Arlington Memorial, Presbyterian and Harris Methodist that have combined and now go by Texas Health.

[grofys]

63. It's not much better with insurance

I have what is supposed to be very good health insurance, yet the breast biopsy which was $29 dollars a year and a half ago just cost me almost $1k. (same breast, different mass). I make payments. I don't ask if they'll take them; I just make payments. I have postponed a recommended test until after I'm done paying for this.

When my husband first left us, about 2.5 years ago, I experienced chest pains and stayed overnight in hospital while tests were run. I think I paid less than $100 for that visit. I couldn't imagine what I would pay now. If I ever have chest pains again, I'm just dying...or not paying...

[renate]

71. welcome to DU... and may I suggest

... not paying. Don't just die.

I'm sorry about what you've been through. Your use of the word "first" makes me think that you've endured a lot in the past few years. I'm glad you're here among a wonderful and caring community. :hug:

[grofys]

109. thanks

for the positive energy...

[populistdriven]

65. Freeper Response: "just dont pay it"

during obama canvassing last fall this was told to my by a freeper who is in the business of getting the govt to reimburse hospitals for providing healthcare to undocumented aliens

his solution for healthcare was to just not pay for it, "they cant take may house or car" he proudly said as he went back to installing a hydrogen electrolysis kit on his old pickup

he was the nicest asshole i have ever met

[specimenfred1984]

66. 1st: sounds like you had an anxiety attack, 2nd: never go to a hospital unless

you are sure you are dying. Most people who have anxiety attacks go to a doctor or a hospital 4 times before being correctly diagnosed with depression/anxiety disorder. On top of that, the general population and hospital e-rooms are still, in the year 2009, completely ignorant of mental health symptoms unless the symptoms are so severe that the patient is likely schizophrenic or delusional. Anxiety could have easily caused your symptoms and 1000 other symptoms, it's not a condition to be discounted in any situation.

Hospitals are money-making operations PERIOD. They are not health facilities, they are insurance-based frauds who are part of an entire health care system of insurance collectors who are in the field for MONEY ONLY. You think a hospital cares about you or anyone else? Welcome to fascist America, they do not give a shit about you, me, patients, medicine or anything else except M-O-N-E-Y.

Go see a psychologist or a psychiatrist and a general practitioner who can easily check out your health situation.

[VenusRising]

68. Last I knew, there is no penalty for unpaid medical on your credit report in Texas.

I had unpaid hospital bills in Texas from when I was going to college and uninsured. The bills were never held against me for any credit purposes (apartment rental, etc), and has since disappeared from my credit. It's not the best situation, but it shouldn't be something that is held against you.

Something you may want to check on. This happened to me in 1999 so things may have changed.

[cherish44]

69. I know people who have managed to get hospitals to trim their bills down

The uninsured get charged more than the insured. If you can't pay it, you can't pay it. A lot of hospitals aren't getting their bills paid right now so I'm sure they may be willing to negotiate more then they're letting on. I'm willing to bet the "we don't allow payment plans" is a scare tactic trying to get you to fork over the whole amount for fear of it going on your credit record. If they turn it over to collections they don't get all their money. They're much better off working out a payment plan with you.

[ConcernedCanuk]

73. Stories like this make me so grateful for our health care system up here

.
.
.

Far from perfect, and I have my own complaints about it,

but none of them threaten my financial security or peace of mind.

If something happens, I'm covered through taxes paid over the last 40 years of working.

But working is not a prerequisite here -

If I had become disabled 40 years ago, all my medical and financial needs would be covered by our government agencies.

Our system covers EVERY citizen, without individual financial burden.

We share it all - the healthy ones still pay the taxes,

the unfortunate ones, end up being the FORTUNATE

as their medical and financial needs are covered

BUT

We don't have a big bad-ass War-Machine . . .

oh well . .

[ejpoeta]

81. what do you mean?? you come down HERE for medical services.

and all that WAITING!!! how can you even handle it!! you don't have to hide how much you envy our healthcare system. :sarcasm:


It doesn't make any sense to me. We all end up paying for the uninsured as it is... we just pay MORE now than we would if we had single payer. and it's less efficient. If everyone had healthcare coverage, then folks would go to a primary care physician instead of an ER for things like the original OP described. I've taken my child to the ER for something that had I had insurance for her at the time I would definitely have taken her to her Pediatrician. You hold your breath and wait until you just don't want to risk it anymore. I NEVER have gone for myself to the ER... only for my daughter.

I so wish folks would open their eyes and quit being so damned selfish. I don't want to have to pay for those lazy people to get free health insurance!!! It SOOO infuriates me. Nothing is free. And we are all paying for our inability to see past our own nose.

[upi402]

74. yep, i'm with you OP

i go to hospitals and clinics in 3rd world countries and EVERYTHING is better. equipment, dr's, intake, cashier, pharmacy, low low low cost, treatment outcome, short or no waiting... everything.

but try telling a conservative that!

[Subdivisions]

91. Someone mentioned earlier that equipment, etc., has to be paid for...

My question is this: How many times do patients have to pay for a vitals monitor? I'm sure they are expensive but surely they don't cost a $1 million each. But it seems as if EVERY patient is charged accordingly.

[SOS]

110. Re equipment

In Japan the government buys all MRI machines and provides them to hospitals at no cost.
In return, an MRI in Japan is limited, by law, to $98. Here in NY it is $1,500.

If your income and assets are low enough talk to the hospital social worker about emergency Medicaid.
Or ask to pay for the Medicare-allowed amount.

It's a bizarre system that charges the uninsured five times what they accept from Medicare.

[moondust]

75. It discourages sick people from seeking care.

And as a result sick people may get much sicker and then the more serious illness may be many times more expensive to treat.

The system sucks. It should have been fixed a long time ago. There is no excuse. Abandoning Hillary's initiatives of the 90s was a GIGANTIC mistake. You don't just abandon something as important to the well-being of a nation as that. Unless you're a selfish Republican dickhead.

[bklyncowgirl]

78. I HAVE health insurance but I got socked for over $5,000 for a head injury.

I had a seriously bleeding gash from my eyebrow to my hairline. I went to my local emegency room after contacting my insurance company.

"Yes you are covered."

Of course that depends on what your definition of the word "covered" is.

The emergency room staff immediately called in a plastic surgeon. Actually, I thought this guy was on duty in the emergency room and was working for the hospital. OK, I thought, I didn't call in the plastic surgeon, so I must be covered.

Big mistake. Real big mistake. As it turned out since the plastic surgeon dis not participate in their program, I was covered for what the insurance company euphamistically calls something like "fair and traditional compensation". What they don't tell you is that their compensation limits were most likely set back during the Eisenhower administration.

Dr. Goldhands, did a good job. I'll say that for him. Everything healed quite nicely. Problem is he billed me for over $5000 and my "Insurance" company paid the guy a big $800. We consulted a lawyer who said to pay the doctor the $1,100 co-payment and maybe they'd pony up enough to satisfy the doctor's billing office. Nope. Apparently according to this insurance company--they made a mistake. I should have paid the $1,000 up front before they rendered ANY payment to the doctor.

You see, if you're in the emergency room bleeding from a gash in your head, and you have the misfortune to have your employer subscribe to this particular insurance company, you apparently have to check and see if every person--and I do mean every person who looks at you--takes your insurance. No one of course will tell you how much it's all going to cost you--that's a bigger secret than what AIG did with several hundred billion dollars of taxpayer money.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have gone home, called up my horse vet and asked if she could stitch me up like she did Shadow a few years ago. Cost $300 and that was a real deep cut. Of course I would have had a scar but hey, look on the bright side. I could be a pirate for Halloween--or Bride of Frankenstein.

So now we're faced with either letting the guy sue us and having our rather good credit rating go straight to hell or pile the rest onto a credit card.

Isn't it wonderful that we live in America.

[Vinca]

83. That is truly insane. The idea that a patient who is sitting in the ER

covered in blood has to vet a plastic surgeon to see what insurance companies he's approved by is ludicrous. It reminds me of the lady in Sicko who was in a car accident and was taken, unconscious, to the hospital by ambulance. The insurance company wouldn't pay for the ambulance because it wasn't pre-approved.

[michreject]

82. If they had let you go

and you had a heart attack later that evening. They coulda got sued. They covered their ass.

You went to them with the complaint. You could have walked out.

[SammyWinstonJack]

97. So that gives them the right to gouge the OP?

:shrug: You went to them with the complaint. You could have walked out. :eyes:

[michreject]

104. You think 4000 for an ER visit

Tests and a night in the hospital is gouging?

What would you consider fair?

[SammyWinstonJack]

114. Well apparently you think it is a fair price so what could I say that would make a difference

in what you consider to be a 'fair' price? Why don't you enlighten me as to what would be a 'fair' price for some one who doesn't have health care insurance? Even Third World Countries don't gouge their citizens the way this so called "free" country does. They have affordable health care.

[michreject]

118. Typical

Get enraged and when asked for a simple answer, go off in a tangent in a new direction.

Again I ask. You think the fee was too high, what would you consider reasonable?

[madokie]

84. My how things have changed

In the early summer of '71 I got food poisoning and wound up in the emergency room. They pumped my stomach and kept me over night and the total cost was $155.00, doctor and all. It was outrageous then and this is outrageous now. No, now it should be considered as criminal to what has happened to the cost of health care.

[unblock]

85. not to add misery to an already sucky situation, but you need to be aware

that there is usually more than one "bill" from an er visit. you will probably get a bill from the er itself, another one from the doctor who actually saw you and yet another one for the lab tests.

i don't mean to add to your woes, but while you're negotiating with them about paying you need to be aware of this. if they're saying you have 90 days then i would at least give it 2 months and see what other bills roll in before negotiating what to pay.

for the moment, time works in your favor, they'll be more inclined to accept smaller payments if you negotiate later.

[dgibby]

86. You might need a third party to negotiate payments for you.

Check out NONPROFIT credit counslors in your area, and let them deal with the hospital. They'll set up payments based on what you can afford to pay, and the hospital is more likely to accept payments this way.

[davsand]

87. They claim to be non-profit. Ask about a "Charity Care" program.

Sometimes it is called by another name, but as a non-profit under IRS 501(C)3 laws they are expected to provide some sort of "Community Benefit" in return for that tax exemption. "Community Benefit" can take the form of any number of things, but usually there is a component of reduced fee or even free care in there.

There are also laws at state level that cover this sort of thing. Here in Illinois there is a case at the Supreme Court level regarding the issue of "charity care" and how much is enough in order for a hospital to be considered exempt from taxation. If you do a Google search on Provena+Property Taxes you will find any number of articles on the subject that might give you some information to work with in your situation.

The down and dirty of it all, is that as a "charity" there is an expectation that the hospital will do some free or reduced fee care for "medically indigent" people. I have no idea what your income levels are, but it would be well worth your time to call and ask specifically about a charity care program. Do not just talk to a phone rep, get a supervisor on the line, and make sure you are taking names as you go. Hospitals do not volunteer the information and they do not make it easy to access the program.

Best of luck to you, I hope you feel better soon.


Laura

[eridani]

88. Please do NOT keep this story to yourself!

Write all your representatives and ask what they plan to do about this, given that you are paying for their health care.

Log on to http://change.gov/agenda/health_care_agenda/ frequently, and voice your support for single payer health care. As FDR once said to A. Phillip Randolph, "You know, Mr. Randolph, I've heard everything you've said tonight, and I couldn't agree with you more. I agree with everything that you've said, including my capacity to be able to right many of these wrongs and to use my power and the bully pulpit." He said, "But I would ask one thing of you, Mr. Randolph, and that is go out and make me do it." Contact the White House frequently. http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/ is the email contact form, and the comment line numbers are 202-456-1111, 202-456-1112 and 202-456-1414,

Sign the John Conyers single payer health care petition by clicking on:
http://johnconyers.com/transition)

Join the Progressive Democrats of America’s Health Care Not Warfare campaign. http://pdamerica.org/articles/misc/2008-02-29-14-19-42-misc.php

Consumers Union, a long-time advocate of universal health care, is collecting health care stories. Tell them yours. http://www.prescriptionforchange.org/share_your_story.html

[Subdivisions]

89. Excellent post. Thanks eridani. I invite all DUers to follow me to these links. n/t

[Trailrider1951]

90. Subdivisions, please do a google search for Lone Star Circle of Care

They have clinics for uninsured and low income people here in central Texas. The can provide care that you may need in the future and perhaps help with your bill.

:hug:

[rox63]

92. Sounds like you had a panic attack

I wouldn't be suprised, considering how much stress you've been under. I know TX isn't known for being helpful to the poor, but could you possibly qualify for Medicaid?

[madmom]

93. I don't know if this is still true, but, many, many years ago my SO had a similar

situation, large bill, inability to pay off, refusal to take payments. Lawyer told him to offer to make payments and if they refuse to take them, the bill is considered "paid in full".

[Donnachaidh]

94. we had to take our son for treatment to the Children's Hospital in Atlanta

He has a mild bleeding disorder. I don't know what the charges will be for the actual visit, but the nurse told me the factor was $1 per unit. He received 12,000 units of factor.

So our MEDICATION cost alone is $12,000! We have the schip program, and I'm hoping they cover this. If not, we're monumentally screwed. And if this treatment doesn't *take* - he has to go in for a repeat.

This country is SCREWED daily by the medical community as well as the pharmacy cartels. It's been five years since this kid had to be treated, but the price NEVER goes down on treatments that save lives. They only go UP.

[hugo_from_TN]

95. That would be a classic epitaph.

Just kidding. I hope you don't need to go to an emergency room ever again.

[Blackhatjack]

96. 2-Headed Monster: Healthcare denied/Healthcare provided $75,000 bill...What do you do?

Neither is acceptable, but both are presented to sick and injured everyday.

And then we hear about million dollar bonuses paid to healthcare insurance executives and their employees because they made so much profit last year.

This situation is real ... and outrageous.

[napi21]

102. FWIW, I had the sa,e thing 3 years ago. My bill was $3,800.00 and I

HAD GOOD INSURANCE! There really IS a major problem with the was HC is administered in the US. MY bill was all for deductibles & copays! Although I had read our policy and knew about the deductibles, there's a whole world of disaster hidden inside those words 80/20!

I too suggest you contact them and tell them the best you can do is $25/wk or whatever the number is, and then just do it.

[AlecBGreen]

105. sorry for your troubles. hang in there buddy

:hug:

[nichomachus]

106. A friend of mine had to go to the emergency room in Spain

He had back problems, which got much worse in Spain, and was in such severe pain he almost passed out. Two friends took him to the ER. They saw him right away, did all sorts of tests, changed his meds. They explained that the ones he got in the US were not only worthless, but making the problem worse -- something the drug company knew, but his from the FDA. They put him on new meds -- not yet available in the US -- and set him up with a specialist the following week.

Then, he got the bill for the ER visit -- 110 euros -- about $130 US.

[Jennicut]

107. This system is utterly ridiculous.

I thank my lucky stars that I have health insurance through my husband as I am a diabetic. This system almost makes people decided to just ignore a health ailment just to not get slammed with the costs. Its totally broken down.
Good luck Subdivisions. Hang in there.

[VampyreHunter]

108. Wow!

Yes, these numbers are way too high and nothing justify those costs. Screw them and make them eat that cost!

[wroberts189]

111. Be sure to ask for full itemization and challenge everyone that ...

looks suspicious or is an obviously an unreasonable charge.


We got charged thousands for something that was not even delivered...


I am surprised to hear they have no long term repayment system.. try to argue this issue ... say "Look if you do not work with me you may never get paid a cent."

Also check with the state to see if there is any assistance available.

Sounds like you have little left to lose economically... threaten to file bankruptcy if they do not work with you... they are about to ruin your credit anyway ..

Whatever you do ..do not let it drag you into depression. I heard unpaid medical bills are not treated the same as other bills by some creditors and banks. Avoid bankruptcy if you can but if all else fails... there is life after bankruptcy.

You have leverage .. do not let them make you feel powerless.

You will recover ... try to avoid thinking about it except when you have to. The one good thing about being at wits end is that you can only go back in the other direction.

Hopefully this info helps.

[rateyes]

112. They're trying to scare you with threats. Pay what you can, even

if it's just $5.00 a month, and keep making monthly payments. Screw their damned threats.

[Lorien]

115. You got off easy. Mine was $8,500.00 for the same problem

they hooked me up to an EKG after having me just sit there for 45 minutes. That was it. $8,500.00 that my insurance refused to cover because the ER was not in their "system". :grr:

I, too, will never go to a hospital again. I've gone without stitches when I needed them and cured severe gallstones with a Chinese home remedy. Heck, if I could figure out how to do vascular surgery on myself I would!

[havocmom]

116. Cheer up. If you had been female, they probably would not have kept you for obversation,

sent you home with instructions to return for a stress test but ending up with a massive heart attack and flatlining..... like what they did to my mom.

I was lucky, when they sent ME home, I didn't have a major heart attack like she did under same circumstances.

Fact: males tend to get more aggressive treatment than females for possible heart attacks.

And, I feel your pain about the payment thing. I have to laugh at all the hospital proponents around here who simply do not understand that no insurance, or even some insurance is really hell and hospitals are so hostile about payment that many of us just have to take our chances. Payment is a problem and yes, they are required to treat, but what good is it if you stress out about the bills to the point you get worse instead of better.

Glad you were not in real trouble. That bill gets a whole lot worse.

[rateyes]

117. They're not ER doctors for nothing. nt