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Hey Dow Jones Futures are up 160!

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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 02:30 AM
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Hey Dow Jones Futures are up 160!
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
1. Now they are up 170.
Interesting.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 03:18 AM
Response to Original message
2. Yes, they are. But.....
Edited on Mon Mar-23-09 03:24 AM by TheWatcher
But it should be remembered that it's not based on anything but yet again, well timed Propaganda.

What you did not mention is that they dove off a cliff to -60 right at the open, and were deteriorating very quickly, as they have done EVERY SINGLE NIGHT since this Propaganda Rally began on the evening of March 9th.

Then, all of a sudden, across the wires comes the Cover Story for the day:

Asian stocks soar on US plan, Japan stimulus hopes

28 minutes ago
By JEREMIAH MARQUEZ
AP Business Writer

(AP:HONG KONG) Asian stock markets soared Monday ahead of a U.S. announcement to purge as much as $1 trillion in toxic bank assets and as Japan signaled more stimulus measures to resuscitate the world's second-largest economy.

Tokyo shares led the region's gains, with the country's benchmark hitting a six-week high, after Japan's finance minister said aggressive public spending to the tune 20 trillion yen ($208 billion) might be needed to end the country's painful recession.

Investors also were eyeing the U.S., where the Obama administration is set to unveil Monday its latest effort to heal the hard-hit financial sector and restore bank and consumer lending. The government is expected to create a new government entity, the Public-Private Investment Program, to clear from bank balance sheets up to $1 trillion in souring securities and loans at the root of the current crisis.

The initiative, which seeks to enlist private investors by offering billions of dollars in low-interest loans and sharing certain risks, was just the latest in an unprecedented effort by major governments to stem the worst global downturn in decades. It helped re-energize a global rally that started two weeks ago amid easing fears about the financial system.

"It's becoming difficult to remain bearish," said Desmond Tjiang, chief investment officer, who helps manage $3 billion in Asian equities at Fortis Investment Management in Hong Kong. "The governments have definitely helped ... and people are still hoping for a second-half recovery."

http://news.ino.com/headlines/?newsid=6897374777780

And thus it has been with most all of the reasons they have given us for this "Rally" thus far.

Nothing of substance, nothing tangible, just "Hopes" "Assurances", and "Plans, Schemes, and Bills"

There is absolutely NOTHING that exists fundamentally in the economic environment that would give support or credence for this kind of Market Activity.

Yet people continue to scream and cheer because the Market is going up in huge gobs, for apparently no reason, but hey, it makes us feel good, so why question it?

You should question it because they can artificially support and manipulate the Market to whatever Price levels they want, but if there is nothing fundamental or tangible to support such Price Levels, sooner or later the Market will once again Collapse, and perhaps even harder than it would have because of the drastic dislocations caused as a result.

But I know, it's more important to feel good than face reality, and I just want bad things to happen, etc, etc, etc.

if you think an artificially inflated Stock market is going to be good for you economically, you should look a bit closer.

So let's ignore the fact that none of this activity is based in any sort of fundamental reality, and while we're at it, let's ignore what is happening to the Dollar because of the reckless Monetization of Debt by Helo Ben and his gang of merry gangsters.

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX&t=f

My apologies for blowing your high.


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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 03:25 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Oh these things always go up after a government program is announced.
Then it comes down when people come back to reality.

Nothing new really.

I'm just surprised because I thought it was getting a bad reception from the investing community.
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TheWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 03:47 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Glad to see you have a sane perspective on it.
:hi:

Unfortunately, Many do not.

The scary thing is that it SHOULD be getting a poor reception, but it's not the investing community that's driving this. this is Official Sector intervention at it's worst.

And it is ultimately going to fail.

What scares me the most is what is going to happen when the Propaganda and the rigging no longer work.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 04:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. Dead Cat Bounces...
The key to a real recovery isn't big jumps in the Dow (as you say), but look at the volume...the number of shares being traded. Right now the market is like an empty casino...most of the high rollers have headed for the exits and those still playing are in for short term gains wherever they can find or create them.

With low volume it's easier to manipulate prices as less trades will push the indexes and those who are playing need the ups and downs to make whatever they can. A bunch of this is short selling...but you have to raise the market first before that game kicks in.

In this case, there is some positive news...the first step in finally isolating the bad assets and get them off the books...returning some solvency to banks, but this isn't a sure fix or one that will restore the flow of credit. Just a first step.

You sure didn't blow my high...I view these ups and downs as being the usual games of the market...great for those who daytrade or want to try to bottom feed, but confidence in the market is non-existant and this isn't going to get people who can buy to get back in...that'll require months of progress, not days.

Cheers...
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. I disagree, but only slightly
"I view these ups and downs as being the usual games of the market ..."

I agree that there is really nothing happening, that the big players have headed for the hills (or dried up and blown away) but there is one nagging thing. It is the magnitude of the daily swings. If the DOW was moving up and down 25 points, or even 50 points, regularly that would make sense to me, but these 100 and 100+ daily swings are something that seems different. I'm not an engineer but I understand in failing systems the swings from the norm become increasingly large.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Low Volume Can Move The Markets More
A decade ago, I saw how a couple of "investors" could mainpulate a stock's price...waiting for the stock to hit a certain low price, then they'd buy in...moving up the stock price and, sure enough, we'd see others get suckered in...then at the end of the day, or whenever these "investors" felt the time was right, there'd be a big dump...the price would skid. Some days, you could see company principals try to stop this buy buying up their own stock, but after a while they gave up...the company eventually went sold out.

Right now we have people looking for bargains...and there are plenty to be had. Citi as an example...with their price so depressed, some players see this as a good chance to either ride it up or short it down...so you'll see a lot of activity around tht stock...and the indexes will move. Kinda like people placing bets on lesser known sports contests...your chances of affecting the betting odds are better in those games than in a game with a lot of people putting their money in.

Cheers...
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wuvuj Donating Member (874 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 06:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. This rally is based...
...on expectations of an economic recovery starting near the end of the year. Whether it ends up happening that way remains to be seen. Don't fight the market?

At least they don't seem to want to dump everything in sight this time. Getting those details they wanted?
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notesdev Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
9. Congratulations
you can make the market go up by shitting on the value of the currency.

It's called 'blowing a bubble' and I'd thought we'd learned our lesson on this by now.... apparently not.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. All they're doing is sweeping the bubble under a bigger rug...
Edited on Mon Mar-23-09 08:14 AM by originalpckelly
all it means is that there will just be a more severe release of correction once it finally collapses. They folded the stock bubble into the financial bubble, and now it's becoming a securities bubble. Eventually the underlying resources will dry up due to the inefficiencies causing the need to use credit, and it will all come down.

When there's a bigger pool of resources to siphon off of, inefficiencies take longer to correct out of a system.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-23-09 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
10. The DOW and other stock indexes are merely a measure of perceived value in companies...
not a measure of actual value. The underlying companies could be great or shitty, and the market may not reflect that due to a lack of direct valuation. The people making the valuations only have so much to go on.
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