Now that's what i call Full Auto Fun!

[obamachangetheworld]

Dedicated, fully-automatic, assault rifles may be difficult to acquire through traditional channels in most states, but weapons such as the AK-47 and SKS, even in stock semi-automatic form, can be made to fire just as fast as their fully automatic counterparts. One time when I went shooting, in California nonetheless with some of the country's tightest gun laws, I saw someone "bump fire" a simple .22 cal Ruger rifle and unload a 30 round banana clip in less than two seconds.

Now that's what I call "full-auto fun!" :sarcasm:

Unfortunately, lax gun sales throughout the United States are responsible for a sizable amount of the global trade in small arms and light weapons; recent reports have stated that the Drug Cartels responsible for destabilizing Mexican border towns acquire as much as 95% of their assault rifles from the United States. This is achieved by ordinary citizens, without criminal records, buying weapons in bulk at gun shows and shops, and then either driving them across the border themselves, or giving them to someone to do this. While border controls between the United States and Mexico are poor, where interstate travel is concerned they are practically non-existent.

Despite staggering numbers of annual killings with assault rifles, it isn't until a more dramatic shooting occurs that people begin to question the flawed argument: "guns need to be available for 'good citizens,' so that they can protect themselves from the 'bad people' who would acquire the weapons illegally anyways." Almost to a bullet, the weapons in the possession of criminals in the United States were originally acquired by legal methods. Sadly, the power of lobbying organizations, such as the NRA, prevent attempts by politicians to place even the most rudimentary restrictions on gun ownership in the United States, and romantic notions of self-reliant frontiersmen, and fundamentalist interpretations of the 2nd Amendment unfairly color the debate.

[Jkid]

1. The US needs a comprehensive federal firearms act.

Problem is that while it's possible to have a total prohibition on automatic and semi-automatic weapons in America (British style), it can't fall afoul of the current interpretation of the second amendment by the SCOTUS.

Then again, if we even want to have British style gun regulation, the next logical step would to restrict police use of firearms to authorized firearms officers.

[Brucie Kibbutz]

3. Here you go.

National Firearms Act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act

[Brucie Kibbutz]

2. Post a link detailing the "staggering numbers"

of annual killings with assault rifles. Also, I'd like to hear about your procedure for modifying a semi auto firearm so that it will fire full auto.

[obamachangetheworld]

7. Statistics

Gun death in the United States may be mostly the result of handguns, but it is violence in other countries, such as Mexico, where cheaply bought U.S. assault rifles do the most damage.

[Brucie Kibbutz]

12. Yes I know that is a problem.

But Mexico does virtually nothing to stop criminals from bringing those guns into their country. They need to take some of the responsibility for it as well.

I will say that our government needs to make every effort to prosecute Americans that buy guns for the sole purpose of selling them to people that would not be legally able to buy guns themselves.

I also think we could also step up searches of vehicles bound for Mexico at our border but we can't do the job that their own law enforcement should be doing on their side.

Sure, we could ban AR sales again but the drug cartels would just revert back to using handguns and shotguns or bolt action deer rifles.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

15. That is utter nonsense...

The cartels like selective fire weapons which are highly restricted in the US

[Statistical]

18. Why would....

well financed criminal cartels in Mexico buy civilian semi auto rifles to fight military soldiers armed with real automatic rifles and heavy machineguns when for LESS they can be a REAL fully automatic Chinese or Russian made AK?

The idea that multi billion dollar drug cartels are buying up overpriced semi auto "assault weapons" instead of REAL military hardware that is available on global market is laughable by anyone who understands the simple concept of:

AUTOMATIC vs SEMI-AUTOMATIC

[Xithras]

4. Bump firing may be fun, but it's tactically useless.

Bump firing can only be accomplished if only one hand is firmly holding the rifle and the rifle is at hip level. The shooter must also be standing squarely and cannot be moving or crouching. While it does permit any rifle to be fired rapidly, it completely robs the shooter of any control of the rifle and cannot be accomplished in any kind of "tactical" scenario. Depending on your point of view, it's either an entertaining range trick or a moronic waste of ammo, but it's not something that can really be used by criminals. In all of the thousands of shootings that have occurred in the US over the past few decades, there isn't a single documented case of a criminal bump firing a rifle while committing a crime.

And I simply do not believe that you saw a stock Ruger .22 firing at over 15 rounds a second. First, .22's generally don't have the recoil to bump fire properly, and the Ruger 10/22 hardly has any recoil at all. The only way to make one bump fire is to heavily modify it by reducing the trigger pull weight. If you saw it happen, you were looking at a user modified rifle, not something you can buy in a store. Second, even a Ruger 10/22 with a modified trigger isn't going to fire that fast simply because the Ruger action is very slow. A very well maintained Ruger 10/22 receiver might be able to cycle 5 rounds a second without jamming. Your typical "maintained once every few months after shooting" receiver won't even get that and might pull two or three. Again, if you saw someone pumping 15 rounds a second through one, you were looking at a rifle that someone had modified heavily in a machine shop.

Bump firing is a way for morons to get their rocks off and pretend that their cheap plinker is a "machine gun". A determined shooter firing one round at a time is a FAR greater danger to a crowd than an idiot spraying an uncontrolled bump-fired bullet hose. To get a rifle to bump fire, you have to let the entire body of the rifle bounce around with every shot, removing all aiming ability from the person taking the shot. They can pick a general area to target, but that's it.

BTW, I once saw a guy break his thumb while trying to bump-fire a Garand. Funniest thing I'd ever seen on a range :)

[obamachangetheworld]

6. Ruger bump fire vid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25e2YTJkCRg

the guy i saw do it, however, did a better job and emptied the clip in a single burst. It was pretty badass.

[ddeclue]

8. Was that gun modified illegally??

Was it really bump fired or was it illegally modified to be full auto?

The shooter seemed to have it under control - we didn't get to see the target results but he didn't seem to lose control of where it was pointed so it would seem to be "tactically effective" to me.

[obamachangetheworld]

10. Not sure

But you can purchase bump assists which pretty much snap on for not too much money. They allow much better control than the traditional "belt loop" method.

[Xithras]

14. If you read the comments, the poster mentions that he's modified it.

The guy in that video has modified his gun to enable it to shoot like that. I'll bet the ATF and a judge would love to have a conversation with him. What he's doing is ALREADY illegal under CURRENT law.

[Statistical]

19. Exactly it is ALREADY ILLEGAL

Classic gun grabber response. Lets pass more laws then people will stop....?

Actually the ATF considers a kit or assist to modify a weapon to fire more than 1 round per trigger pull + weapon = automatic weapon.
They don't even need to be attached.

Simply having both is an automatic weapon. Period.

[Brucie Kibbutz]

5. statistics vs. drama

Notice how few homicides there are where a rifle was used compared to other kinds of weapons.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_07.html

If we are going to ban weapons based on how many deaths they cause, rifles of any kind would be one of the last ones done away with. First, we'd have to ban handguns, shotguns, knives, blunt objects, even hands and feet.

[ddeclue]

9. Handguns are much more likely to be used in an economic crime

but I think that crimes of passion tend to use weapons of opportunity be it a golf club, a rifle, a hand gun, or a bowling trophy - in those cases a determined skilled shooter with a rifle is a lot more dangerous than a determined skilled shooter with a hand gun because of the range and accuracy differences.

Doug D.

[Brucie Kibbutz]

13. I see what you mean IRT AR's but the stats indicate

AR's are not the scourge that they are made out to be. Despite their range and high capacity magazines, they are rarely used in homicides compared to other types of weapons.

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2007/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_07.html

[ddeclue]

11. I don't think that banning assault rifles is the answer..

I think that the solution is better screening of who we sell guns to by asking the people around them whether they trust their brother in law, husband, wife, coworkers, etc. with a gun.

I think this is a great argument to use against conservatives because hey -it's not the gov't telling you you can't have a gun, it's your wife.

I think it is also in closing private sales loop hole to require that all sales / transfers have to go through the same paperwork trail and background checks as licensed gun dealers have to do.

I think that it requires that gun owners have to be able to obtain liability insurance for their guns as a way of allowing the free market to decide what rules should be adopted to minimize gun violence since having to pay victims would create a real cost mechanism and force the gun owner to accept the real cost and risk of ownership. (This is a fun one because it is a free market argument to use against conservatives.)

I think also that making ammo traceable through tagging particles being put into the ammo would help a lot also.

Doug D.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

16. My rights should limited by someone else's opinion? Consider that on the right to vote

[jmg257]

17. Can you tell me how ordinary citizens are buying boxes of assault rifles?

I want at least 1 - legally of course.

The truth is assault rifles are highly regulated here in the US, and those that are legally tranferred go for around $18,000. Doesn't seem to be much of a value selling them to Mexico.

So here is a BULLSHIT report, that, like your OP referring to it, just DOES NOT MAKE SENSE...

http://www.mccaffreyassociates.com/pdfs/Mexico_AAR_-_De...

"...
D. Mexican law enforcement authorities and soldiers face heavily armed drug gangs with high-powered military automatic weapons. Perhaps 90% of these weapons are smuggled across the US border. They are frequently purchased from licensed US gun dealers in Texas, Arizona, and California. {note...**BULLSHIT**, so PERHAPS, or really "probably" not}

AK-47 assault rifles are literally bought a hundred at a time and illegally brought into Mexico. Mexican authorities routinely seize BOXES of unopened automatic military weapons. The confiscation rates by Mexican law enforcement of hand grenades, RPG’s, and AK-47’s are at the level of wartime battlefield seizures."
***********

Sorry but this is BULLSHIT! There are NOT boxes of automatic rifles or automatic military weapons available in the US, unless someone is stealing them from the US military suppliers, or from the US military themselves. And where in the US are "BOXES" of real automatic Ak-47s coming from? NO ONE HERE MAKES THEM OR LEGALLY IMPORTS THEM!! Maybe smuggled in from Iraq, but they certainly aren't being sold via straw purchases by US dealers.


Try some truth for a change...

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-mex...

"MEXICO UNDER SIEGE
Drug cartels' new weaponry means war

Narcotics traffickers are acquiring firepower more appropriate to an army -- including grenade launchers and anti-tank rockets -- and the police are feeling outgunned.
By Ken Ellingwood and Tracy Wilkinson
5:53 PM PDT, March 13, 2009

The Feb. 21 attack on police headquarters in coastal Zihuatanejo, which injured four people, fit a disturbing trend of Mexico's drug wars. Traffickers have escalated their arms race, acquiring military-grade weapons, including hand grenades, grenade launchers, armor-piercing munitions and antitank rockets with firepower far beyond the assault rifles and pistols that have dominated their arsenals.

Most of these weapons are being smuggled from Central American countries or by sea, eluding U.S. and Mexican monitors who are focused on the smuggling of semiauto- matic and conventional weapons purchased from dealers in the U.S. border states of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California."

[obamachangetheworld]

20. Here are some sources to related info:

1) http://www3.signonsandiego.com/stories/2009/mar/25/1n25guns011211-guns-flow-south-border/

2) http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Story?id=4695848&page=1

3) http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-guns10-2008aug10,0,3497661.story

[jmg257]

21. Ahh - so it is NOT assault rifles coming from the US, but semi-autos, and

other conventional arms.

That makes more sense. And is still quite illegal.

Wish these frigging reporters and even the ATF agents etc. would get it right! At least one paper put out a correction...

"For the Record: Weapons smuggling: An article in Section A on Aug. 10 about guns being smuggled into Mexico and used by narcotics traffickers said that "high-powered automatic weapons and ammunition are flowing virtually unchecked from border states into Mexico." The guns purchased in the U.S. are semiautomatic or conventional firearms."