Clinton says administration will not attempt to revive the assault weapons ban.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

Andrea Mitchell just said this on Rachel Maddow's show. She said the administration didn't want to take on the gun lobby.

David

[Mojorabbit]

1. Hurray! nt

[camera obscura]

2. Thank God.

[DJ13]

3. Why is that something the SoS would be concerned with?

The AG, the DOJ, or the ATF I could understand, but thats not really in her job description.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

6. I think it was in relation to the current trip to Mexico.

[karynnj]

89. I assume that she asked about the administration policy because it is related to the trouble in

Mexico. Had she not been told the policy, it would have left her in the position of appearing out of the loop when the questions were asked on what the US will do to halt the flow of weapons into Mexico. In addition, HRC is a cabinet member and sits at cabinet meetings. One reason is to know what the rest of the administration is doing.

I am NOT a HRC fan, but she is not to blame for this policy. The only way she could be faulted is if this is not true or the administration had not made a decision. This is highly unlikely as Obama and everyone else knows that this is a major issue that would come up with Mexico - so there is no way they would not have told her the policy the WH wants to take.

(That said - I am disappointed with that decision - in fact, given the problems in Mexico, there is MORE reason to control those weapons.)

[cliffordu]

4. Yessss!!!!!

4 more years, almost guaranteed!!!!

I don't care if y'all don't like it...the assault weapons ban was a Pollyanna feel good worthless piece of shit legislation and should NEVER be resurrected.

:hi:

[Thrill]

5. All those fools running out spending their money on guns

Dumbasses

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

7. Pretty good investment actually.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

10. Not at the inflated prices they've been selling for recently

In my area a lot of fools and their money have been parted.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

11. That's why I bought mine last year.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

14. Good for you. n/t

[Arctic Dave]

84. I told the guys I work with that went out and bought a gun out of fear

I would buy it from them for 50 cents on the dollar in a year from them after they realized they were suckered by the fearmongering gun lobby.
I"m gonna get me some smokin deals.

[Statistical]

87. Why wouldn't they just keep it? (n/t)

[Arctic Dave]

105. Most of them went out of their ways to buy guns they really

didn't need or could afford. With the ecomony looking bad the guys are always willing to part with toys at a pretty good discount.

[michreject]

88. Not really

They get to keep the guns. That's a plus.

[benEzra]

107. My rifle has appreciated 58% since 2003,

and the ammunition I own has appreciated more than 100%. How's your stock portfolio doing these days?

I don't own guns as an investment, but they are not a bad investment.

[Lasher]

8. Woo hoo!!

Good sense has prevailed.

[rwheeler31]

9. In this environment it would not work , we need to find a

a way to deal with arms dealers. The people who smuggle guns are worse than the drug dealers.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

13. If legal dealers in this country are in fact the problem.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

15. I could be reading the post you replied to incorrectly

But it would appear they're speaking of illegal arms dealers.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

17. They seem to be blaming licensed dealers in the US for selling to straw purchasers.

Of course they dismissed the last case against one of them. Mexico also won't release the serial numbers of these gun to confirm they were purchased in the US.

David

[NYC_SKP]

12. But, but, but, but what about all those assault rifles being smuggled into Mexico???

:rofl:

Thanks Gaawwd Obama didn't fall for that bullshit!

:applause:

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. They are, but that's ok

What shocks me is how ignorant people still choose to be

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

19. Because they say so right.

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. No, from that place I choose to live in called reality

and the weapons didn't start flowing south a year ago either, or two either.

That just accelerated

Go search the web son even learn some spanish and read the Mexican press, or if you don't believe them, maybe the european press

Suffice it to say some of the shit that was found even many years ago was quite surprising

Of course you'd not take a first hand witness testimony either as to some of this shit either so why bother

Those who are willfully ignorant, cannot be led to water

And Dave, you are...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

25. I guess we should just believe everything the government and Fox News says.

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. My own lying eyes work

due to where I worked I got to see it

Even experience the cross country fire...

that's the part of first hand witness you are missing

Son

And how about Televisa? Canadian News Network? The BBC...

Something about rivers and making noise and carrying water

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

30. Just because your kids suck don't claim me as one.

[nadinbrzezinski]

33. As I said, you will even discount a first hand witness

to that crap

Don't worry, the American News Media did that for years....

You are not alone

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

35. You never do that right.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

37. I believe rational people.

[nadinbrzezinski]

40. Yep, that is why the INS officer and I had a chuckle years ago

as they tore apart a car full of dope, local news filming, while their counterparts tore up a car with assault weapons...

We just looked at each other, perhaps if we got these idiots to film that some dot connecting may occur

As I said, this didn't start today

And I consider you far from rational when it comes to this subject SON...

Of course there were some toys that the Army found that could only come from the US... armory, but that is another story

Didn't start yesterday son, just accelerated son

Now I have better things to do than argue with a horse that can be led to water, but would never drink from it, even if he died from thirst

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

43. Full of AK-47's huh. Sure it was.

[nadinbrzezinski]

47. According to their counterparts they had that day

2 cuernos de chivo (AK)

1 AR-15

1 SKS

As well as a couple escuadras in 9mm ... no make determined, but the mexican press usually doesn't specify them

So yes they were

Recent stories place the thing at less weapons but more cars

So how's that for you?

As to what the army captured from one of the cartels even years ago... some of it came only from US armories...

Google mexican press, they do show what they capture regularly, on the teevee machine... and photos of them in the paper

I am sure you can use the google.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

48. I saw some today, 3 very dangerous over and under shotguns.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

50. It's been fun I'll catch up with you tomorrow. I've got a class to teach tomorrow and need sleep.

[Bobbieo]

26. Could be becuz they don't live in a border town!

[nadinbrzezinski]

29. You got it, brother\sister

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

39. So you see people smuggling AK-47's, RPG's and grenades?

I guess they bought them at gun shows huh.

David

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. YES to all those questions

And not necessarily at gun shows for some items, but I am sure you knew that

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

44. That's hysterical you actually believe they are smuggling RPG's from the US. You are delusional.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

45. I know you are making things up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. Ready for some crow son? Here you go, hope your spanish is good

This is a haul recently taken

That trooper is part of the Special Forces detachment



http://www.ultimadelatanda.com/2008/11/ejrcito-mexicano-decomisa-el-mayor.html

http://www.libertaddigital.com/mundo/mexico-decomisa-al-cartel-del-golfo-el-mayor-arsenal-de-armas-de-la-historia-1276343037/

Entre las armas aprehendidas hay siete rifles Barret calibre 50 milímetros, armamento de gran poder capaz de penetrar cualquier blindaje de automóvil y con un alcance de 6.800 metros. Además, se incautaron 287 granadas, entre ellas 98 de 40 mm., 165 de mano defensivas, 2 cilíndricas, 3 granadas de mano de humo, 3 aturdidoras y 16 de gas. También hay fusiles de asalto AK-47, armas cortas con los mangos bañados en oro, dos lanzagranadas, 14 cartuchos de dinamita, 67 chalecos antibalas, y 970.300 pesos (unos 75.000 dólares) y 86.740 dólares en efectivo.


Need me to translate oh shit I will

Among the captured weapons are seven Barrett Fifty caliber,... 287 grneades AK -47 Two RPGS, 14 tnt sticks, 67 armored vests,

Them the highlights son

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

54. Now if you could prove that those came from the US you might have something.

[nadinbrzezinski]

56. Where do you think the barrets came from?

And yes, the ATF has run numbers many a times

The STORIES you believe to believe, that 90 % of them are coming from the STATES should clue you in

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

58. The Barrett's likely came from the US. You're insane if you think the RPG's did.

[nadinbrzezinski]

60. can you do math? 90% is not 100%

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

62. You said you had seen RPG's being smuggled in from the US though.

[nadinbrzezinski]

65. That time I saw it... they were not the usual stuff

according to the folks at the federal police

I also saw some shit that most people would not believe. They make the RPGs look like toys, regardless of where they come from

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

69. You might have a future as a writer.

You actually expect me to believe that you have seen weapons being smuggled that make the RPG's that are destroying M1A1's in Iraq look like toys. MMMkay.

David

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. And US Made too... they came from an armory somewhere

Yep, we all had one of those... HOLEEEE SHIT MOMENTS

After all, you are right, nobody would misplace weapons in a US Armory

NO Sireee, nobody would...and that has never, ever happened... nope... not at all... black projects, cough, cough... but that would never happen

I know what I saw...

And I truly envy your sheltered life...

Lord I really do

Though that one it probably started at a US Armory... and came the long way...

[FudaFuda]

90. Then you're not talking about weapons that started in the civilian market.

All these news stories use this "90% of drug cartels' weapons come from the USA" blurb, but they don't go on to explain whether the source is the US civilian market, or other. The automatic weapons, grenades, rocket launchers and what-not, i.e. military ordnance, are NOT coming from the US civilian market, and yet it seems these are the weapons the politicians, journalists, and you are most concerned about.

If the stuff that's really causing concern is military in origin, then its probably stuff we've sold to Mexican military and law enforcement which has 'made its way' into the possession of the cartels. There are also international black market channels through which American military ordnance can be obtained (i.e. Vietnam, where we left TONS of rifles, grenades, ammo, etc. behind). All of this stuff 'started out in the USA' but that doesn't mean the American civilian market has anything to do with it, and more civilian gun control wouldn't do anything to curb it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

95. That particular one didn't, the rest did

By the way that particular one would make RPGs look like a walk in the damn, I stand by that

HOLLEEE SHIT

FINDERS KEEPERS

The Barretts did, oh and now that I think about that one, did start in the civilian market, when it entered the black weapons market, and in that particular case not the US... but can you understand the meaning of PARTICULAR

No you can't

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

102. Barrett's aren't assault rifles.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

46. Like those russian grenades you learned about in the school of hard knocks.

You ever think of writing a book that's some funny shit. Especially the part about the english words on the russian grenades.

David

[spoony]

83. Yeah but it was written in a Russian accent

Eef you pullz zis peen, moose and skwerel go boom!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

76. Process to get an AK-47 in the United States. For those who care about the TRUTH.

"Process for obtaining a Class 3, Title 2 or NFA Weapon
The transfer tax on machine guns, short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, and suppressors is $200 payable to the BATFE. The transfer tax on AOWs is $5 and is also payable to the BATFE. This transfer tax is a one time only tax and not an annual tax. Each time an NFA weapon changes hands, the tax is charged except if the transfer is between class 3 dealers.
The paperwork required for the transfer of an NFA weapon consists of an application known as the Form 4. The Form 4 is completed and submitted with the applicant's photograph attached and a fingerprint card. These are submitted the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives in duplicate along with the respective transfer tax. The finger print cards are forwarded to the FBI for a background check. The background check and transfer process takes about 2 months or so depending on the examiners’ work load and if there are any errors on the preparers part.
Once the Form 4 application is approved, one copy of the approved application with a "stamp" is sent back to the dealer or seller of the weapon. The dealer or seller contacts the buyer and makes the physical transfer of the weapon at that time. The approved Form 4 application stays with the weapon and is proof that the buyer has paid the transfer tax. The original should be stored in a safe place and a photocopy carried with the weapon should the legality of the NFA weapon be questioned by law enforcement officers."

The importation of AK-47's has been illegal since 1968.

The domestic manufacture of AK-47's has been illegal since 1986.


You would have us believe that 90% of these AK47's are being smuggled in from the US.

David

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. As I explained, from that pesky thing called history

for the moment... this is not set in stone

And perhaps not this group, but you will see some kind of controls, that will follow US History, not legend... sooner or later

That is all...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

20. We have all kinds of controls.

[nadinbrzezinski]

24. And guess what, they fit a historic pattern son

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

27. Listen up kid. You couldn't shine my dad's shoes.

[nadinbrzezinski]

32. I'm sure son

you live in small town america, away from borders, where this is happening

Try to open your eyes... to some reality

And by the way, you are infatuated with weapons... lord knows you have a right

Have a good life sonny

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

34. Just because your kids suck don't claim me as one. I know you like me and all but seriously.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

41. You see my dad actually was a veteran.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. I am a veteran of the war on drugs, and my husband is a retired chief

and your point?

Free clue, we both have been shot at, and he fired in anger...

You don't impress me that much

Especially since you lack that intellectual curiosity son

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

57. That explains a lot thanks.

Nothing like a man's wife to tell me all the things her husband has seen.

David

[nadinbrzezinski]

59. No you idiot what I HAVE SEEN with my own eyes

what part of VETERAN of the war on drugs are you missing?

I've been the one shot at YOU IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!



You see, I actually saw things that you can only imagine

or are unable to comprehend...

Or willfully ignorant to

Free hint... what do you want to know that actually happened in the Movie Traffic that was changed to protect the guilty?

Clue, about ten percent

I had a front row seat to that

His war were Granada, Gulf War One and Two

Mine was the war on drugs, clear enough son?

And you still fail to impress me

In fact, my opinion of you is now lower than whale shit.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

61. Clearly you are upset. My apologies, I'm just having a fun debate. Take care.

[nadinbrzezinski]

64. UPSET, are you that delusional

amazed at willful ignorance maybe... but upset?

That's a good one

Thanks for the laugh

By the way, you were shown data... don't expect you to accept it

Goes against everything you believe

Oh and just because I have cooties does not mean I haven't been there

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

66. You haven't shown me one bit of data and you are clearly upset.

[nadinbrzezinski]

68. Ok doctor freud

the arsenal captured by the army is nothing... and of course I'm upset

Are we seeing some projection here?

Look fact is don't matter what you are shown, weapons cannot be flowing from the US to mexico, no matter who or what data is shown to you

And of course things are not that bad down there

And we all should be able to own an M-1 battle-tank.. parking it will be a bitch, let alone the fuel cost....

That's the truth....

No matter what you are shown, because you are stuck in a story, and all this (what is going on for real, in the real world, actually violates what you believe in)

Here is a shocker for you... part of the solution to this involves something our government will not do... legalize the crap, all of it, and tax it, heavily so

Now you need to go teach a class... me... well in the real world I know what I;ve seen, and what I've experienced and it is very far from what you, in a safe firehouse in the US, has experienced... consider yourself lucky

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

71. Pictures aren't data you realize that don't you.

Newspaper stories aren't data either. A random Mexican or US government official making a statement isn't data either. The things that you claim to have seen are merely anecdote or fantasy.

David

[nadinbrzezinski]

74. Now we enter into the realm of fantasy... RLOL

now if that was one story... you'd have a case

But these arsenals captured by the Mexican Army have a twenty year history... AT LEAST

Why don't you try the google.

Be curious

Oh and for historians primary sources include witnesses... in case you wonder

As I said, this whole story goes against your personal believes. Now go to sleep you have a class to teach... I'm sure you want to be in a good mood, perhaps

Oh and david, believe whatever you want to believe...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

75. Again NO DATA, nothing to back up these stories you make up.

[nadinbrzezinski]

77. Ready for some more crow?

http://www.seattlepi.com/national/401827_mexico28.html

http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=ae0f349b5a2797fa94e4da7f5022104f

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/26/world/americas/26mexico.html?_r=1&partner=rss&emc=rss

Notice the date on the second one, 2007

Will give you more tomorrow

And sadly I hope you can read spanish

Though you could do this google yourself...

If you were truly curious

As to my claims, sorry... I didn't go to the press... just know what I saw, including getting shot at... more than once

So whether you believe that or not, matters little to me.

But you are willfully ignorant... on the bright side... you are not unlike most citizens of the US... where myth replaces the ugly reality

For those of us on the border... well it is another story

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

86. Only one of the three articles you cited had any data.

The ATF says they traced over 10,000 guns since 2005 back to the United States. See that's some data, something that would be independently verifiable, unlike the claims of the mexican government or estimates from the Brooking's Institution. I would like to see the numbers of prosecutions associated with those 10,000 illegal gun sales they were able to trace. Hopefully a reporter will actually do their job and use FOIA to get the ATF to release this information so it can be independently verified. I'll do some research on it and get back to you.

David

[karynnj]

93. Here are numbers for one week from Janet Napolitano on weapons seized

She is head of Homeland Security - so this is as official as it gets.

Here's what she says (about 31 minutes in):

Napolitano then gave a description of the violence saying that the scope of has changed drastically in magnitude. Because Mexico and the US are working to stop the drug trade which has led to the cartels fighting each other in turf battles. She said that there is a different level - 6000 homicides in Northern states of Mexico - 550 of law enforcement or public official. Napolitano said the majority of weapons come from the US. She mentioned that 997 firearms were seized between March 7 and 13th. This was with 4 and a half million dollars in cash.

http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?Fuseaction=Hearings.Detail&HearingID=c90839b0-9167-4819-b943-332988b403b1

Interesting note - Lieberman DOES see need to deal with firearms

[nadinbrzezinski]

94. That's guv'ment making those claims

I don't think it will matter to him, but thank you anyway

[karynnj]

97. I was just listening to the hearing and having read your comments

which were convincing to me - even though I took French years ago in college rather than Spanish.

I agree that he won't believe it - but I thought others reading the thread might be interested in the stats she mentioned.

Later in the questioning, she says they don't think they need changes in the law - referring to two (I think sensible) Lieberman suggestions - 1) on weapons and 2) on the shared value cards that are not treated as "money" though they have been used to launder drug money.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

100. I believe your stat that 997 weapons were seized.

I don't believe that those 997 weapons were AK-47's and RPG's bought in the United States.

David

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

99. What weapons were seized?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

67. I don't care if 100% of the guns are coming from the US.

Mexico has failed to do much about the drugs coming north, they expect us to worry about the flow of guns south now that the chickens have come home to roost.

[nadinbrzezinski]

70. Here is a free clue to the clueless

we are partly responsible, we consume the crap

That's where legalization comes

Oh not only me saying this... by the way

Didn't the SOS say that today? Or the Economists just two weeks ago? That the traffic's going north because WE consume it?

I wish things were black and white but they're not

Need to get that clue stick lengthened...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

72. So you do drugs that explains a lot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. They are legal, they were prescribed by the doctor and are prescription

like my diabetes and bp meds...

They are drugs after all

You like to insult people

By the way... nice way to actually discuss policy

Are you this idiotic just tonight or everyday

Perhaps you should go to the Economist Website and google their article on legalization as a serious policy suggestion... something about revising the prohibition that started in 1911...

You do know who or what the economist is, RIGHT?

I doubt it

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

85. Learn to take a joke.

I'm pretty sure Hillary wasn't talking about your diabetes and bp meds. So you aren't consuming the illegal drugs coming from the south and neither am I. So we aren't contributing to the problem.

David

[nadinbrzezinski]

96. We are as a society, get it now

it is society's problem and we are...

I'm done with you, have a good fucking life and welcome to my ignore list

Those who are too blind...

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

101. Ahh the ignore list, that didn't take long.

[biopowertoday]

78. Yes, Hillary said that today. She is spot.

[nadinbrzezinski]

82. Yep she was spot on

and a very bright diplomatic statement to boot

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

103. Spot the dog?

[doc03]

21. Last time I checked Clinton is

no longer President, I would feel a lot better if Obama would come out and say it himself.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

22. She never was as far as I know.

[doc03]

31. Doesn't matter unfortuantly neither one

is President.

[MannyGoldstein]

36. Maybe Now I Can Have My Own Cluster Bomb

And a side order of Napalm.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

38. Those items are covered by the NFA of 1934.

[ContinentalOp]

63. Hopefully Obama will repeal that.

As it clearly violates the second amendment.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

73. The Supreme Court disagrees with you.

[FudaFuda]

49. Do we have a source for Hillary actually saying it?

i.e. not Andrea Mitchell saying Hillary said it?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

51. Maddow said they would air the full interview tomorrow at 1.

[FudaFuda]

53. cool thx.

guess i'll have to turn on my TV set. i try not to do that very much.

[1]

79. that obama. he's a pretty smart guy. i'm glad he's my president...

booya!

[aikoaiko]

91. If true, then Obama needs to publicly say so instead of his appointees giving mixed messages.

SoS Clinton says the adminstration will not revive the AWB, but AG Hold said they will.

[jmg257]

92. We can only hope. But I wouldn't bet my life on it. Too many mixed messages in

this administration, and nothing more definitive from the boss then he wants to renew a permanent AWB.

[NeedleCast]

98. Hooray!

One pitfall on the way to 2010 avoided...

[Dukkha]

104. which means everyone who was buying them up at inflated prices

look like fools now

[benEzra]

108. If the objective was to sell at a profit, yes; if the objective was to own one

without having to worry about future bans, no. I think most recent buyers are in the latter category.

If I didn't already own an AK, I'd definitely pay an extra couple hundred to buy one rather than waiting indefinitely for a lower price. The extra $200 buys the peace of mind of not having to worry about 1990's style trade sanctions and import bans,

[FudaFuda]

106. So did anyone see it? Was the actual statement consistent?

I wasn't able to watch it cuz the wife wanted to talk about problems at her job. Actually I don't watch a lot of TV anyway. But I'd be very interested to know if Hillary actually stated that the Obama 'administration will not attempt to revive the assault weapons ban.' I admit to being a bit of a gun nut, but more importantly I've got a couple gun owning coworkers who are a bit less, ummm, democrat. I'll love to be able to put this to them tomorrow, if she really did confirm no AWB.

[benEzra]

109. GOOD. It's about time the "assault weapon" fraud was taken off the table. (n/t)

[Thothmes]

110. That may well be the administrations position.

However, what will the administration do when the Congress presents it wath AWB legislation for the Presidents signature.