Do you think along with the economy moral decline is killing us?

[TwixVoy]

And when I say "moral decline" am not talking about the right wing hijacked definition of "moral decline".

I am talking about honesty, integrity, basic fundamental ethics.

I am reminded of my (former) retail job. I was a front end manager. I had gotten on to a check out lane to help speed people through.

I look over and hear someone coughing. It is another employee. She collapses on the middle of the floor unable to breathe. I immediately walk away from the register and go to customer service to dial 911. While I am on the phone with 911 I feel someone tapping my back. I turn around to see the person I was checking out and she asks me "So are you going to finish checking me out?". (keep in mind a person lie dieing on the floor about 10 feet from her) So I ignore her and turn my back to her and continue my conversation with 911.

Everyone by and large continued about their business. Some people even walked over her on the way out the door.

On that day I realized we were a seriously screwed up people.

It seems the same kind of thing is attractive to people in what are normally extremely close relationships. For example, many people don't give a damn if their partner is a scum bag of a person as long as they are "hot". Many people find jack asses who give a damn about no one but themselves extremely attractive. IMO this kind of attraction is now the norm, not the exception. I realize there is no proof of this, but it has been my observation.

You also can no longer take many people at their word. In society a promise holds little weight. It used to be (decades ago) that if you promised a person you would do something you would go out of your way to keep your word. Now with many people the vast majority of the time a "promise" is a bold faced lie told with little hesitation.

People also don't know their neighbors. I am guilty of this as well. Hell I don't know who lives next to me. I haven't even thought about this until recently. It was normal to me not to know them.

Perhaps my observations are wrong.... but I am starting to believe this, along with many economic issues I have posted about before, are the root cause of why this nation is falling apart.

[Uzybone]

1. I know...cos in the 50's America was such a moral country

When do you think this "moral decline" began?

[TwixVoy]

2. Obviously this country has always had issues

but have you visited Europe or South America? You will find parts of many of these places EXTREMELY more ethical in general than the USA. The people in general have a completely different culture that respects integrity.

[Uzybone]

4. I may agree with that, but thats not because America has moral decline

I may be in the minority, but when I look at the whole picture that is America, I think these are the best days we have had as an entire nation on purely moral basis.

[Mike 03]

3. No, moral consciousness seems to be rising now that we are out of the Last eight

years of hell.

Everybody I know cares again, hopes again, actually feels like taking responsibility.

It's the best environment I've seen since the 90s.

I'm very optimistic and so proud.

When you have a president who takes responsibility, many people in the nation also get the clue and it's contangeous, empowering and wonderful.

[Skittles]

11. whatever pills you are on, pass some my way please

[Starry Messenger]

14. (zing)

:thumbsup:

[AllieB]

15. You're in Texas. You'll need whatever pills he's on plus a side of Vicodin

washed down with Jack Daniels. :D

[Skittles]

24. all that won't make up for living in Texas

:hi:

[Mike 03]

27. I retract my response. You are probably right.

In fact, I'm sure you are right.

[Skittles]

32. I read your other post

could be you are looking for hope and in that case, I do apologize and wish you and your dad the best

[Donnachaidh]

17. what land do YOU live in?

"Everybody I know cares again, hopes again, actually feels like taking responsibility."

Pass whatever it is you're smoking. Because in the REAL world, it ain't happening.

[Mike 03]

25. Sorry. Just unreasonably hopeful, I guess. NT.

[Mike 03]

28. You are right

Everything sucks
My parents are dying.
We are all dying.

Nothing's good, and there's nothing to hope for.

It's the truth.

Who can argue.

[Missy Vixen]

5. We just got screwed over by our neighbors in the past 24 hours

There are people that, for whatever reason, just do not get it. Unfortunately for the rest of us, they never will.

[TwixVoy]

7. Curious

Are you speaking about our "neighbors" in general as a people, or you personally just got screwed by them? If so, what happened?

[Missy Vixen]

12. Ze thread... they reneged on their offer for us to take the dog they're rehoming

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x8704712

Let's put it this way. If we were in a better financial position right now, we'd be seriously considering rehoming ourselves.

We've lived next door to them for eight years. If they think we're going to forget about this, they're crazy.

[Laelth]

18. Delete.

Edit:Laelth-- delete (wrong thread).

:dem:

-Laelth

[Missy Vixen]

20. Perhaps the neighbors use others for their own benefit

This really has nothing to do with the law. It's all about a couple of people who made a promise, and then never delivered.

Again, we're not talking about the law. They never asked for any renumeration. They paid nothing to obtain the dog in the first place. We're talking about truthfulness and ethics; they've shown they have none.

In the meantime, we're not suing. The best way to handle this matter is to simply stay away from them, until such a time that we can either afford to rehome ourselves, or they sell their house and move away. We don't care to have any relationship at all with those who believe it's appropriate to use others.

[Laelth]

22. Sorry. I moved the response to the other thread, not realizing you had responded.

And I hear you. They made a promise. You expect them to keep it.

But I don't think you're hearing me. You have no right to expect people to keep their promises unless you promise to do something for them or give something to them in return.

Those of us who understand this principle are less likely to be upset when someone breaks a gratuitous promise to us.

Now, I don't want to upset you further. I wish you well.

:dem:

-Laelth

[Romulox]

30. The law of contract is not the only law that governs the conveyance of property, however.

As I mention on the other thread, gifts are effective upon delivery. So the question of the presence or absence of donative intent on the part of the neighbor at the time of delivery of the animal becomes the controlling fact. Consideration doesn't figure into this particular question.

[InvisibleTouch]

21. Or maybe her neighbors are simply selfish assholes...

...who deserve to be given the cold shoulder from this point onward.

[NashVegas]

6. Yes, Absolutely

It's shockingly sad to see how cynical we've all become.

[Skittles]

8. I'd never behave like that

it distresses me to see people in distress and I always try to help - and I swear I'd kick some ass if I saw behavior like you did

[Auggie]

9. Compassion, integrity, and honesty are not part of the cool culture

We've been bombarded with messages from the media, business, and politics that lying, cheating and stealing is way more fashionable.

If those are morals, then yes.

[InvisibleTouch]

10. I think it was Aristotle who lamented the moral decline of the young generation...

...something like 2000 years ago. So I don't think the situation is really changing.

Some things we have better today than people did in ancient times, and some things we have worse. On balance, it's about the same.

[Coffee and Cake]

13. I am not convinced that there is a moral decline in this country.

Every decade has their perverse stories.

Afterall, we had to add Amendments to the Constitution in order for blacks and women to vote.

[Laelth]

16. Delete.

Edit:Laelth--delete (wrong thread).

:dem:

-Laelth

[Tangerine LaBamba]

19. Good manners are quaint,

and I find them mostly in people who were born in other countries. How's THAT for an indictment of our collective behavior?

Of course, there are exceptions, but the story you told doesn't - sadly - surprise me at all. I've seen scenes like that, a person lying bleeding in the street, having been hit while riding a motorcycle, and I was the only one who finally stopped to help him. That kind of thing.

We're an isolated society, feeling very little connection with other people. Just watch rush hour in big cities - lots of cars with one person in them, a bubble symbolic of how we move through our days now.

I do know this - when I started practicing law in 1976, a deal was sealed on a handshake, and you could rely on it.

Not any more. Not even close. You cannot count on anything until it's in writing, waiting for signatures, and, even then, the weasels always try to slip in or leave out something that was not agreed upon originally.

It all makes me feel very, very old. And sad.............................

[Democrats_win]

23. Moral decline? One person's immorality is another's lifestyle.

Take the banksters. What we see as theft through usry is a nice living. On the other side, unwed mothers, gays who aren't harming anyone, but many Americans still (wrongly) view both as immoral. Not that these "Americans" had any objections to bush's wars.

Maybe we should ask if America is being punished for our immorality. You know, Jerry Falwell style. It would be impossible to answer that we aren't immoral even if you must argue that it's our own bad decisions coming back to haunt us--like the "election" of bush. Thus the results demonstrate that we are an immoral nation. No matter how you look at it.

[rucky]

26. It's not just you.

We're largely a nation of assholes.

[RainDog]

29. moral decline=a nation that ignores torture

moral decline-

a stolen election in 2000.
a war of aggression in 2003
a war on reality by cultish religious factions - on science, freedom of conscience, on reality itself - that is morally repulsive. it makes that religion nothing but a lie.
the largest prison population in any western democracy with an ASTOUNDING number of people in prison for cannabis-related victimless crimes. viewing imprisoning people as a way to make money.
the only western democracy that does not treat health care as a human right. viewing the denial of health care to citizens as a way to make money.
a twenty-plus year war against the working class. viewing shareholder profits as more important than a living wage.

the latest - pretend torture isn't a crime and pretend that illegal wire-tapping is good for democracy is just the latest in a long series of decisions that demonstrate moral decline.

THOSE things, noted above, are examples of moral decline in a nation that claimed its reason for being was to promote the general well being of citizens, as well as life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

[Uzybone]

31. When did this moral decline begin?

Are you suggesting there was a time in our history that the US didn't start wars of aggression, a time we treated healthcare as a human right, a time we didn't have a war on drugs, a time we didn't have rendition and black sites? When was the time that we have declined from?

[RainDog]

33. I'd say it began with the 2/3 compromise

in other words, people have always been cruel.