Be a Man

[redqueen]

Be a Man
By Kristin Ohlson

They're footballers. Fraternity men. Big, burly guys like ex-quarterback Don McPherson, who's hoping to lead a new generation of men into a violence-free end zone.

Several New York Dragons football players limp into the room with what Don McPherson calls the midseason walk, meaning they have weeks of scrapes and bruises that haven't yet had a chance to heal. They reach out to shake Don's hand and the contrast is dramatic. The Dragons—members of a professional arena (indoor) football team—have their injuries, their baggy clothes, and their faint hopes for a future in the National Football League, while the 37-year-old Don has already had his dash in the NFL, his injuries have long since healed, and his crisp khaki pants, lapis-blue shirt, and easy smile make him look like a corporate executive on retreat. Still, Don will be mining the similarities between himself and these men in his presentation—not just their shared experience in football but also their shared history as men in a country where sexual violence runs rampant. A country in which, experts estimate, a woman is battered by a man—usually an intimate partner—every 15 seconds, raped every two minutes, and murdered by a spouse or boyfriend every six hours.

(snip)

Certainly, some men have toiled against sexual violence in the past, but their numbers have been tiny and they've been concentrated in academia or social work. This new wave of male activists is not only much bigger but their backgrounds allow them to wield a different kind of clout: men like Don and Mark, for instance, who hail from traditional male bastions and have lived the kind of rough-and-tumble masculinity so admired by other men. When "real men" like these blast long-cherished sexually aggressive male behaviors, other men tend to take notice.

Some male activists are in the entertainment industry and use their showbiz glitter to highlight male violence: men like country rocker Andy Griggs, a national spokesperson for the Family Violence Prevention Fund, who recorded "Waitin' On Sundown," a song about a woman fleeing an abusive spouse. "You hear a lot of women talk about sexual violence, but not men. It's time for men to stand up and say, 'I will not abuse women and I will not support violence against them.'"

Let's hope this is the start of a trend.

[slackmaster]

1. Be a man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qtrAMK7_Qk

[sarge43]

2. Another man steps up

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SPzVUGE3dds

[seabeyond]

36. and their smoking campaigns....

thank you. good video

[sarge43]

62. Yes it is. Very moving.

It took a lot of courage for Stewart to tell that story. I particularly admired him for emphasizing that women aren't the only victims of domestic violence, only the immediate ones. He said in so many words that he too was and is a victim.

[lukasahero]

3. K&R - I hate the phrase "be a man" because it has been so misused

but this article needs to be read and taken to heart. It will be interesting to see where it goes on DU.

[redqueen]

4. Not too far apparently.

[lukasahero]

7. And yet nearly 3400 views

for the thread looking to label a particular woman suspect or victim...

I don't know about you but I am not at all surprised.

[redqueen]

8. Yeah...

can't say that I am.

[BoneDaddy]

51. No, I think people can smell a trap

and bullshit a mile away. And before you attack me regarding the content, let me say I do not disagree with the content of the post. I think people can see that the majority of posters on this thread have continually shared their strong negative thoughts and emotions about men.

[redqueen]

58. What? How is this a "trap"? And ... what negative thoughts about men?

The negative thoughts are about a type of behavior, not men.

[BoneDaddy]

68. Read many of the posts in here please.

no win situation, unless they agree with you. If the reader agrees wholeheartedly with your point of view there is no problem. The very topic heading is provocative. BE A MAN by Kristen Ohlson. Can you imagine BE a WOMAN by Jack Ohlson the place would go batshit.

I react less to the content of her article and more to the repsonses about men from others in this thread. Based upon some of the posts on this thread unless every man makes this his personal mission to publicly speak out against violence against women, they are co-conspirators, as bad as the perpetrators. Doesn't give much of an option, does it? No wonder threads like this do not provide dialogue.

[redqueen]

72. Yes, you're right.

Those kinds of posts aren't helpful.

But re: BE A WOMAN... what would it be about? If it was a subject like this... where there is a clear right and wrong, then I doubt it would be too controversial. I can't really think of a topic that would fit. Now, BE A MOTHER... that might work... aimed at women who would rather hang out at the spa or go shopping with girlfriends and hire a nanny to raise their children. I'd be all for that.

I just used the title that the writer used for the article... I didn't see it as being provocative. Mea culpa.

[BeFree]

5. I will

I am a man and will not abuse, nor tolerate abuse against women, or anybody.

Been saying that for years.

[RedCappedBandit]

6. Word

:thumbsup:

[backtoblue]

9. K & R

[glitch]

10. K & R nt

[Sentath]

11. KnR, but

that title really hurts it here.

[redqueen]

12. I guess I shouldn't have used her title...

ah well, too late now to edit.

[ceile]

13. K&R

[Schema Thing]

14. Nice

I tend to use the term "be a man" in exactly this context; that is to say with an unspoken (unless my recipient is virulently clueless) 'good' between 'a' and 'man'.


IOW, an attempt to make the point that *acting* like a man is not the same as *being* a man.

*Acts* tough : GW Bush


*Is* tough : Barack Obama



It's not just men who have to change though, it's women and our culture too. Women have to do their part and be attracted to the real man over the guy acting tough, make babies with him, and populate the earth with real men. Hopefully my daughter will do her part; so far so good; she shows no attraction for assholes.

[redqueen]

16. I was told repeatedly as a young girl

that 'tough' isn't not wearing a jacket in the cold weather, or smoking, or looking like a stereotypical 'tough guy'... that's very easy to do. Getting a good education and being a responsible adult - *that's* tough.

Maybe it worked... I've always been more attracted to intellectual, resopnsible types. :)

[seabeyond]

27. growing up in house of testosterone males, i married a... man, who they all consider a wuss

he isn't any of the bullshit swaggering yet is more man then any of the three. i am raising two sons and point to them the image of "man" my father and brothers present and the man their father is. the difference and who really has the better life, full, responsible, good, respectful, integrity, character... a true man.

it is kinda nifty having such a visual comparison for my boys.

[Schema Thing]

34. good for you

raise those boys to believe that nice guys always win. Because it's true.

[seabeyond]

35. i agree. but i also raise them that nice girls

are to their advantage too. we equally discuss the other side of the spectrum with female gender

[Twinguard]

44. It's true.

I've gone out of my way to be one of the good guys, even when it wasn't easy. I have long considered myself a nice guy. There have been many times where I thought that nice guys DON'T win, but I just kept on truckin'. I've been used and abused, but I felt it necessary to maintain my integrity. I am a firm believer in karma.

Now, I have a lovely, smart, beautiful, and fun wife. I have two beautiful twin toddlers. I have a comfortable house with a big yard. I have friends and family that think the world of me. Above all, I can hold my head up high.

Nice guys do win.

[Schema Thing]

47. yeah I don't have any of that stuff right now

(well, actually I have a most wonderful 17yo daughter)

...but I still keep the faith, and I sleep pretty well at night.

[redqueen]

60. I hope you do speak up

when guys go off on that rant... it is destructive for everyone.

Glad you have a loving family now. :hi:

[me b zola]

15. K&R

[noiretextatique]

17. it's nice to know that men like mcpherson, wynn, griggs

are raising consciousness on the issue of negative male behavior.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

18. Stand up Guys

www.standupguys.org

The mission of Stand Up Guys is to raise awareness about men’s violence against women and girls and to promote gender equality in our Community. We accomplish this mission through education, community projects and by holding events and activities that raise awareness.

..........

The idea is just beginning to grow some roots, that MEN are responsible for their behavior. Gee.
I hope that this idea that men can identify real manhood with understanding that women are human beings and treating them as such really permeates the collective psyche. I hope that what benefits women is recognized as benefitting everyone. Currently, "women centered" topics get no traction, here or in M$$M.

Some years ago, I heard a PSA on AirAmerica talking to parents about teaching their sons that the violent images in media are wrong, that women don't really want to be treated badly and that being a man means being committed to treating women decently. I nearly fell off my chair, it was such a departure from the usual fare.

It only ran a very short time.

Hopefully, this concept will re-energize.

P.S. Yes, About Obama's real toughness (as compared to commander cocaine...): in light of this topic, no surprise that Obama's earliest actions were in support of women (end Global Gag Rule; Lily Ledbetter; establish Commission on Women and Girls). Also, putting Kathleen Sebelius in charge of HHS--that's good, she is a staunch supporter of women.

[redqueen]

19. Thank you...

"teaching their sons (...) that women don't really want to be treated badly"

That's going to be tough considering how regularly we see the rant about how women only want 'bad guys' or men who treat them like crap.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

25. maybe part of that is mistaking "bad" for "protective"

just thinking out loud what in us (well, in me...) attracts or invites in the less than ideal....

hmmm, many thoughts going through my head and not the right time to get into a stream of consciousness post! I have to get ready for work!

:hi:

[redqueen]

38. Yes...

I've always thought it was something along those lines.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts when you have the time. :)

[Odin2005]

30. Thanks for the link!

[redqueen]

20. Just kicking this once

:kick:

[Spazito]

21. Thanks for kicking it or I would have missed it...

and it is a VERY worthwhile read!

Thanks and Recommended (if the time limit hasn't expired)

[RedCloud]

22. Like a man...

That's how I was raised with that ill-defined phrase.

"Get out here and work like a man."
"Go over to that war and fight like a man."
"Get married like a man."

But I never heard,

"Go to college like a man."
"Respect your wife like a man."

because I didn't need to by then!

[LanternWaste]

23. Kick-- it's an important message

Kick-- it's an important message.

[redqueen]

24. Thanks,

I think so too.

[seabeyond]

26. "real men" blast long-cherished sexually aggressive male behaviors, other men tend take notice

i couldnt agree more, have been asking for this, a thank you to these men.... good.

[Odin2005]

28. Good. Christ, sometimes I feel like the only guy who cares while oher males go...

..."you're a slut and deserved it" or "just quit thinking about it" or other such insensitive BS to my friend. :puke: :cry:

[seabeyond]

29. i have asked hubby, while sittin at a bar, or in locker room, hearing some

guy tell his story of "doing" the wasted drunk girl he picked up, how many of the guys that are disgusted about the behavior say something out loud, or keep mouth shut. he says they keep mouth shut.

i tell him, it is men like them that can be an influence way beyond women speaking out on the issue.

just wasnt on his radar

[Odin2005]

31. The guys that keep their mouth shut are just as much part of the problem as the monsters themselves.

Silence is complicity.

[seabeyond]

33. Silence is complicity..... i have always believed. n/t

[varelse]

32. very promising

:)

[Forkboy]

37. I can personally vouch for this approach.

I was one of those manly men, a hockey playing, moshpit loving son of a bitch. Other guys do listen when someone like that speaks up on an issue like this, maybe because it's unexpected in such a rough and tumble setting, so it catches people by surprise and sometimes gets them thinking. Of course, in the punk scene sexism isn't looked upon too kindly anyways, at least in most circles, so that made the message a little easier to get across. There's peer pressure in a lot of punk circles to do the right things, thankfully.

And there are some people who are just schmucks and don't give a shit. x(

And I should mention that I'm not a manly man anymore. Too old and crusty now. :)

[redqueen]

39. Somehow I'm not surprised you'd be one to speak up on this.

:)

[RadiationTherapy]

40. This is the right approach. We have to redefine masculinity.

Power dynamics are out of control.

Thanks for sharing.

[seabeyond]

46. and it wouldnt be anything new, redefining. bushco years did just that

if one choses to take note in the hype of male today, thruout our culture. even the churches try to promote the bushco male.

[RadiationTherapy]

55. The "Bushco"/"John Wayne" idea of masculinity was a reaction...

a reaction to the idea that masculinity doesn't or shouldn't exist. I am very aware that it is a "man's world", but masculine oriented people need guidance and insight just as much as anyone.

[BoneDaddy]

48. Stay off my masculinity

for one, it isn't yours to touch.

[RadiationTherapy]

57. I don't know what you are talking about; you sound threatened.

If you don't want to revisit your masculinity, then who cares? If you aren't abusive and don't take advantage of power dynamics then who cares?

What is your point?

[BoneDaddy]

67. No, not at all

Just amazed at the level of cognitive dissonance, not necessarily with you (I don't know you) but with many on DU, especially when it comes to gender issues.

[RadiationTherapy]

74. I understand. I am of the opinion that all humans are devolving.

This article happened to be about men reassessing how they use their 'power', so I addressed masculinity.

[anonymous171]

79. I'm a big supporter of Gregory Peck masculinity myself.

What we need to do is abolish the man-child "Rambo" masculinity. A man is not defined by who he dominates, but by who he lifts up and supports.

[DKRC]

41. Too late to rec, but thanks for posting this nt

[myrna minx]

42. I wish I could rec this, but it's too late.

:kick:

[islandgirl808]

43. excellent

i worked for a domestic violence agency for almost a year...it's really difficult to find a qualified man to lead dv groups for men. i wish more would stand up.

[redqueen]

45. Hi there islandgirl808...

welcome to DU! :hi:

[demmiblue]

49. Kick... the more men who stand up on this issue, the better!

I would love to see more male input on this thread. :crosses fingers:

[BoneDaddy]

50. I would but...

many of the posters in here have been aggregious male bashers historically. Of course I support the sentiment in the OP and stand up this way in RL, but so often what is written about men in here by women isn't really in support of men but an opportunity to say what is "wrong" with men. And if the opposite occurred and a post was written about what is wrong with women, it would be tombstoned in a minute.

[demmiblue]

52. OK... I have read your reponses to others...

you seem to have some issues. I will leave it at that.

[BoneDaddy]

53. Really?

So you believe that DU is "male positive", that men are celebrated and honored like women are? That the feminine isn't lauded over that which is masculine? IF you believe that I have a bridge to sell ya.

[demmiblue]

54. Like I said, you have some issues.

I would love to have the Mackinac Bridge... how much will it cost me?

[BoneDaddy]

56. But you never answered my question

Do you think DU is male positive? Are men valued as much as women, seen as wonderful? I am a democratic liberal progressive and it so often appears that it is not. Why you think that means I have "issues" is lost on me. It is an observation. This article itself is an example of what I am talking about. Can you imagine an article dictating to women how "they should be" would be tolerated in here? Nice try.

As for the Mackinac Bridge, you can have it for free. I am feeling generous today.

[demmiblue]

61. Thank you for the bridge...

it is so nice that you conceded!

So, finally you called out the article! LOL! Imagine that... men sticking up for women. Who knew?!

[BoneDaddy]

71. Not sure where I conceded

but I am glad you enjoyed the bridge. Ah the rabbit hole is deep.

[redqueen]

59. Women aren't universally honored here,

and men aren't universally bashed... you just aren't seeing what doesn't fit your preconceived perception.

[BoneDaddy]

69. I wish I could say that Redqueen

but on topics of gender, that has not been my experience. Of course there is no absolutes in this and there, like you said, are always people who fall on either side, but there is zero tolerance for any misogyny and varying latitude to going after men.

[Odin2005]

76. You obvious weren't here when the date rape thread was on-going.

There were plenty of otherwise good DUers defending date rape, it sickened me.

[BoneDaddy]

80. Well I would have vehemently spoke out against that as well

had I seen it.

[Odin2005]

83. Good!

[Odin2005]

63. I used to make fun of the so-called "man haters" here, then my close friend got raped.

I'm not laughing any more. Not that I agree with the "all men are rapist pigs" rhetoric, but I completely understand where it comes from, too many guys have a severe empathy impairment it seems.

[demmiblue]

64. I saw one of your recent replies...

in another thread about the same issue.

Thank you for speaking out on behalf of your friend. Rape is a life-long sentence for the one who has been violated, the rapist; not so much.

I admire you for having your friend's back (as well as other women in the same situation).

Odin2005... you rock!

:yourock:

[Odin2005]

65. Thank you.

:hug:

[demmiblue]

66. .

:hug:

[Iris]

70. I agree with demmiblue. Your friend is lucky to have you for a friend.

[Odin2005]

77. Thank you!

[BoneDaddy]

73. Empathy does not mean

condmening your gender because of the actions of an individual. Understanding also does not mean agreement. I can understand how alot of women feel about men, perhaps the majority experienced abuse of some sort. That does not mean that gives victims the right to say whatever they want to say about a gender and this be allowable. It is challenged when done to any other group.

[Odin2005]

75. Of course not, but that doesn't mean those condemnations are not based on fears that are...

...completely understandable. Simply dismissing them prevents a complete understanding of the problem.

[BoneDaddy]

81. See that is what ends up happening...any critique, other than the

agreed upon opinion is seen as "dismissive". I have claimed over and over that I do not, in substance, have a problem with the article, but more with the latitude with which some people (mostly women) think they can speak about men in a global negative way. In a way that would not be allowed to go unchallenged if it was any other group.

[Odin2005]

84. That's because a lot of the criticism sees it as merely ideological, the psychological aspects...

...that is, WHY people hold those negative views in the first place, get ignored, and that thus in turn reinforces those negative viewpoints via confirmation bias.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

78. actually, my experience doesn't correspond to yours

In my experience, the male bashing has been **in response** to egregious and ugly baiting by **some, but not all** men here. It may also help you to understand the angry and frustrated replies if you can put yourself in the shoes of women, who have been living with being demeaned and hypersexualized all our lives. The tension in those threads comes from women's frustration at posters who delight in dismissing and provoking. Anyway, the whole conversation tends to degenerate from there.

It is also very easy to find positive remarks made by many of the "historically male bashing" people; it just depends on the context in which you find them. i.e. The "baiters" seem especially prone to attacking people who are speaking up about sexual objectification of women, as in media. The "historical male bashers" tend to be in discussion on threads like that, and do reply vigorously to those posters who show up solely to bait and demean women.

There are a few DU men, and even a couple DU women who reliably attempt to damage women who speak about feminist issues here. Their posts tend to be inflammatory, cryptic and closed-loop, refusing any participatory dialogue. The replies to those people are understandably hostile and frustrated. (Oddly, these provocateurs rarely get tombstoned, in spite of alerts)

So, it seems that you are focusing on the bashing you see against certain men who behave in negatively stereotypical ways here, just as the women bashing them are responding to those stereotypical male behaviors. (Similarly, I sometimes need to do that reality check myself when my negativity focuses me on "all the men that are against women")

What you may not be seeing and taking to heart is that there is always lots of positive regard and replies to men who engage in meaningful discussion on "women's issues".

If you consider the possibility that there may also be positive comments to and about men, you will notice they exist here too. Even on this very thread.

[BoneDaddy]

82. Well that is good to hear

I guess it is that I was raised by a man who had great respect for women and the men I associate with also love and respect the women in their lives. Of course I have run into men who have contempt for women, but truthfully, they are in the vast minority of my experience. I guess that is why I am sensitive to generalizations about men.

But I also know women who despise men and I have seen too many negative posts about men in DU and they were not simply responses to bad behavior as you have suggested. I have too sons and I will never make them feel that the masculine, testosterone or their anything about their maleness is bad, evil or wrong in any way. I will teach them to be whole and balanced and to love both the masculine and feminine in themselves.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

85. I love this...

"I will teach them to be whole and balanced and to love both the masculine and feminine in themselves."

Beautiful!

:loveya: