Is women's sexuality is less fixed than men's?

[Liberal_in_LA]

Poll question: Is women's sexuality is less fixed than men's?

what the heck?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/personal/04/23/o.women.leave.menfor.women/index.html

Why women are leaving men for other women

* Story Highlights
* Expert: More women are in alternative relationships with other women
* Some leave husbands or boyfriends for other women
* Researchers study whether women's sexuality is less fixed than men's
* Professor: Sexual fluidity is not something women can control

[xchrom]

1. not if there's beer involved. nt

[bluedawg12]

30. Men are as fluid, they're just socially more repressed. n/t

[surrealAmerican]

36. That's what I was going to say.

[bluedawg12]

39. The louder the homophobia the more aroused the phobe , studies show.

It may be that the loudest voices and the biggest phobes are in denial about their own arousal patterns.

Curious, isn't it?

>>J Abnorm Psychol. 1996 Aug;105(3):440-5.
Is homophobia associated with homosexual arousal?Adams HE, Wright LW Jr, Lohr BA.
Department of Psychology, University of Georgia, Athens 30602-3013, USA.

The authors investigated the role of homosexual arousal in exclusively heterosexual men who admitted negative affect toward homosexual individuals. Participants consisted of a group of homophobic men (n = 35) and a group of nonhomophobic men (n = 29); they were assigned to groups on the basis of their scores on the Index of Homophobia (W. W. Hudson & W. A. Ricketts, 1980). The men were exposed to sexually explicit erotic stimuli consisting of heterosexual, male homosexual, and lesbian videotapes, and changes in penile circumference were monitored. They also completed an Aggression Questionnaire (A. H. Buss & M. Perry, 1992). Both groups exhibited increases in penile circumference to the heterosexual and female homosexual videos. Only the homophobic men showed an increase in penile erection to male homosexual stimuli. The groups did not differ in aggression. Homophobia is apparently associated with homosexual arousal that the homophobic individual is either unaware of or denies.<<

[Atman]

40. Bingo.

If a man fools around with another man, he's "a homo" and even subject to getting his ass kicked and/or lose "friends." If a woman fools around with another woman, it's "hot" and everyone breaks out their cameras.

Pretty odd set up which I'll never quite understand.

.

[bluedawg12]

45. Now that's a myth. Try being a real dyke in Padducah, Ky.

Not a Hollywood starlet, just a real dyke, in anything but a relatively large urban setting, where you live for safety in numbers, because in the small towns across the US, where the religious right wing dominate, they don't break out the cameras, they break your car windows.

[Atman]

56. I'm jaded, I guess...I'm a New England liberal

My cousin was among the first women to marry in Massachusetts a few years back, when it became legal. She'd been with her partner for over twenty years. I was being overly general, I admit; she is by no means the Hollywood starlet type. Between living in New England, as an artist, having worked in the women's fashion industry, I probably know more gay men and women than the average midwesterner.

.

[mudesi]

Not True. At All.

There are actual hormonal reasons for male sexuality being less fluid than female sexuality. While many gay men may do a great job of hiding their sexuality because of a homophobic society, that doesn't mean their sexuality is more flaky than a female homosexuality.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

73. hormonal reasons? what are they?

[Xipe Totec]

2. I think I'm a lesbian, trapped in a man's body. n/t

[MADem]

3. People don't leave GOOD relationships, no matter what their gender.

Here's an amusing paragraph--note that what isn't said is "Even though there's no real data, that's not stopping us from publishing a story that's long on celebrity anecdotes and short on substance!!"

Statistics on how many women have traded boyfriends and husbands for girlfriends are hard to come by. Although the U.S. Census Bureau keeps track of married, divorced, single, and even same-sex partners living together, it doesn't look for the stories behind those numbers.

[Matariki]

49. So the whole article is someone's wet dream?

lol

[blondeatlast]

54. Good find and I'm glad you pointed it out.

It's so easy to read past the weaselly language when it's steeped in sensation, but I always like to look for it myself.

The article is pure sensation with enough hint of fact to make it scannable. They only hope that people like you and I won't read it carefully enough--and it works like a charm as this thread demonstrates.

[mudesi]

4. FUCK YES

It's completely obvious.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

5. I've spent 55 of my last 58 years trying to figure out what women want

Now I don't care anymore.

[Lilith Velkor]

55. Aretha Franklin spelled it out for you: R-E-S-P-E-C-T

If you don't care, that's fine, but any younger fellas reading this thread should know that it really is that simple.

[mudesi]

60. Bull. Fucking. Shit

That would be true if women would define "respect", but they don't. They just say they want it in the vaguest sense possible.

Go ahead. I dare you to give me some examples of what it means for you to get respect.

[seabeyond]

61. oh wow. k. a jab at it. this post is not respectful to either women in general

or this particular poster. not an automatic rejection of what is being expressed to you. an actual interaction of listening back and forth is a good way to communicate in respect.

did i pass the dare.....

[mudesi]

62. I'm Listening....

Still waiting for a definition of respect. You saying "I want respect" and me saying "Define what you mean by that" does not constitute a rejection of what is being expressed - It constitutes a request for a clarification.

[seabeyond]

67. bull. fucking. shit. does though.... lol lol

kinda stops all conversation, closes the ears before it has even started. immediate rejection of what is being said. and then you say.... listening.

huh??

for me, respect is not gender required. it is not one particular gender or the other. one has to respect self to respect others. and there are plenty of women that dont respect men and vice versa.

i am not going to get into the big ole long discussion on respect on this thread. and not with you in particular. i have read many of your posts, and i really dont think it would be worth the time, and i say this respectfully, cause i have no desire to try and force changed perspective when it isnt welcome. how arrogant that would be of me.

i merely gave the immediate response to your post on the subject of respect and the "dare"

[mudesi]

71. Oh For Christ's Sake

You're confusing "disagreement" and "immediate rejection". Bull.Fucking.Shit = "I disagree", OK?

You don't have to get into a discussion with me if you don't want to. But so far no examples of what constitutes respect have been offered here. Just the usual side stepping and non answering.

[Lilith Velkor]

63. Treating women as individuals, and not a hive mind, would be a start.

As for the definition of respect, I suggest you look it up in the fucking dictionary, instead of parsing it in order to deny it to women.

You are not going to get back at whatever woman in your past offended you by treating all other women like shit. So sorry.

[mudesi]

65. See? Can't Answer The Question

First of all, you're the one who said women want respect. If that's not true, then maybe you should stop acting like women are a hive mind.

Second, here:

Respect


1. esteem for or a sense of the worth or excellence of a person, a personal quality or ability, or something considered as a manifestation of a personal quality or ability

2. the condition of being esteemed or honored

That doesn't help at all. Sorry.

Third, I'm not trying to get back at anyone.

[Irreverend IX]

6. I suspect the answer is yes, but not because women's sexuality is inherently more fluid...

The US and many other societies sexualize women in popular culture a lot more than men. There are a good deal of ads and other media with shirtless dudes and cowboys, but sexualized images of women are an order of magnitude more widespread in popular culture than sexualized images of men. These images probably have just as much of an effect on women as on men, and can encourage the expression of latent bisexual tendencies in women who otherwise may not have realized they were capable of same-sex attraction.

Also, females who do "guy things," including sleeping with women, aren't as abhorred as guys who do "girl things." I remember reading about how there are a lot more women in college who are "lesbian until graduation" than guys who are "gay until graduation." Among a lot of young people, it's seen as no big deal and even sexy for a girl to have done some same-sex stuff, but if a guy admits to it his peers will never look at him the same way.

[alittlelark]

11. That makes a heck of a lot of sense.

I never really thought about it.

Females are the 'sexy' ones in our media culture.... it makes sense.

[Echo In Light]

28. Good points! And remember, misogyny is the cornerstone of homophobia

When it comes to the mass media induced, video subconscious of America, people are indeed what they behold and consume ... despite the deluge of denials.

Consider a few of these sexually related items that have immediate, substantial references in hardcore pornography, yet became very trendy within mainstream culture, which is a media-induced culture, and subsequent social outlets:

female bi-sexuality, the "little girl" type outfits that can be seen on waitresses in some restaurant chains, and on actual young girls on Halloween, interracial sex/relationships, hetero anal sex, HOOTERS, the S&M leather look, thongs, and of course the ever popular shaved pubic hair (mimics the "little girl" fixation within porn) and low cut jeans that nearly expose butt crack and pubic mound.

Now, before anyone reads me the wrong way, I'm NOT suggesting that there's anything necessarily or inherently wrong or immoral about any of those desires, practices, accessories, affectations or penchants (well, the "little girl" angle in porn is creepy) or that the only way an individual would arrive at any of those particular attractions is via pornography, or from an external source of influence.

What I'm suggesting is that unprecedented numbers of young women who suddenly had instant access to hardcore porn online - as where before that, porn was primarily only looked at by men - has lead to many adopting some of that medium's more popular thematic attributes to one degree or another, as well as being absorbed into the mainstream culture where the visuals, and their various psychological underpinnings, come well packaged for mindless mass consumption.

[Threedifferentones]

42. Echo, I almost wholeheartedly agree with your view

that our pop culture sexualizes women more than men. However, I think you are carrying the porn angle too far. For instance, as a male who grew up with the internet from a pretty young age, I can tell you that most male porn "actors" are completely shaved as well. But, this trend has not really caught on with men as a whole, even young men.

All I am saying is that if women have been influenced by porn to shave more, why haven't men? Clearly, there is alot more at work here than porn teaching people that women ought to look girly.

[Echo In Light]

43. Well, again, it's the misogynistic angle, but in a pop culture window dressing that obscures it

Plus it's a matter of confusing and/or manipulating the legitimate differences between sexual liberation and sexual exploitation ...some out of ignorance, other aspects quite intentional.

So, I'd suspect that since most of these trends objectify women, that explains why more women remove their pubic hair since doing so is packaged in the context of something She wants, yet is something that stems from, or is aligned with, His (male driven pornography) desire.

It's complicated, and I know that as a young man I was raised with all sorts of gender propaganda about How Women Are that time after time as I grew up proved patently false. So some of the more recent "raunch culture" is likely, in part, a backlash to women having to hide/disguise their very real wants/desires for many yrs. It just looks and feels very different from the sexual revolution/hippy/Counter Culture/women's lib social movements that were healthy and wonderful in breaking down old barriers and stereotypes. As where now in this age it just tends to look like men, and the male driven culture, were able to convince women they should be happy to imitate them, and fulfill their pornographic expectations as a form of social codification.

I mean, all of this is but one aspect of the individual's sexuality within mass society, and the matter is obviously far more comprehensive than saying it all boils down to just one form of cultural influence or another. But I tend to perceive our culture as being deeply, dangerously rooted in the uncritical mass consumption of media that's loaded with all sorts of views/messages.

[seabeyond]

44. excellent

lol, thank you echo. on many of these discussions i have come out being called all kinds of things because the bottom line, this is what i am feeling today as opposed to the past


"It just looks and feels very different from the sexual revolution/hippy/Counter Culture/women's lib social movements that were healthy and wonderful in breaking down old barriers and stereotypes. As where now in this age it just tends to look like men, and the male driven culture, were able to convince women they should be happy to imitate them, and fulfill their pornographic expectations as a form of social codification."



i have never been able to articulate or clearly state my opinion, feel on this, but you did it so very well. and you did it being a male, lol, that makes it even a 100x's more impressive. i appreciate that you took the time to share this.

[Hardrada]

7. This careless use of the word "fluid" bothers me.

Are we looking for some kind of punchline here?

[cherokeeprogressive]

22. Maybe "less fixed" might have been better debated had the phrase been "more dynamic". n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

8. Nope.

I think what is "less fixed" is womens' conditioning about relationships with other women. Sexual orientation is not very fluid in most people, but it is not as rigid as most people believe. I believe it is more about social mores, than "fluidity."

[FreeState]

17. +1 n/t

[bluedawg12]

31. Str8 mlaes are more confined by society to be str8 and remain str8.

We should compare to cultures where it is/was accepted and suddenly it seems male sexuality is variable.

[smalll]

9. Um, no.

Univeral lesbianism is a straight dude fantasy: especially for couch potato straight dudes who spend way too much time watching Cinemax.

For one thing, men want sex more than women. Look at navies, prisons, English "public" (private) schools over time --- when men have no other choice they'll take what's available. So guess what --- women aren't dying to give the average semi-obese American the longed-for threesome (thanks to their mythical crypto-lesbianism) rather, the average semi-obese American guy, lonely enough, will want to get his rocks off the other way. And guess what, that doesn't make him gay! -- just the normal horndog douchebag male of the species.

:shrug:

[Mind_your_head]

21. +1

:thumbsup:

[Starry Messenger]

10. It would have been interesting to have the responders to your poll identify by gender.

Although my guess is probably correct.

[nomorenomore08]

12. "We've arrived at a moment in the popular culture when it all suddenly seems almost fashionable."

Isn't this what they were saying about 10 years ago, around the time of DeGeneres/Heche? :shrug:

And women's sexuality may be more fluid than men's in some ways, or at least anecdotal evidence would suggest so, but that alone doesn't begin to solve the question of whether it's "nature" or "nurture."

[Art_from_Ark]

16. I think they were saying this at least as early as 1968

At least, that's what I read in one of them there men's magazines that were gracing the magazine rack of my local pharmacy back then

[cherish44]

13. From women I've known that have left their guy for a girl...

almost all of them ended up going back to being in a heterosexual relationship after awhile. (I know that's not true in every case, this is just the people I've personally known) I think society is a lot more tolerant of bi or bi-curious females than they are of males.

[tkmorris]

25. Excellent point

It may well be that women are not by nature more fluid in their sexual orientation than men are, merely that they are more free to explore it due to the prevailing views of society.

[cliffordu]

14. Well.....

:popcorn:

[LostInAnomie]

15. I think men's sexuality is more fluid than we like to admit.

There are far more societal constructs in place that keep a lot of men from even exploring the idea their own sexuality.

Our culture also appreciates female beauty a lot more. Men and women are both conditioned to find the female form attractive.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

19. Women have the capacity to fall in love with "the person" regardless of sexual

orientation. A friend that considered herself heterosexual, fell in love with a woman she worked with. When the relationship ended she said she loved being a lesbian, but couldn't care less about the sex.

[bluedawg12]

33. Exactly. Remove societal oppression of str8 males and you have examples

like: "...scholars, such as Victoria Wohl, emphasize that in Athens, same-sex desire was part of the "sexual ideology of the democracy,"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece#Historical_adult_male_couples

[Hannah Bell]

18. just because cnn put out an article doesn't mean it happens any more frequently

than in the past.

[BlooInBloo]

20. "Why women are leaving men for other women?" - Because women are hot.

[bluedawg12]

37. I bet a lot of women find hot man on man action exciting.

Those chiseled, oiled, smooth, firm, well muscled bodies.

[Withywindle]

57. Heh. Lawd yes! n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

58. I do.

In Japan, it's considered normal. Here in the US, notsomuch.

[Vanje]

77. with

tight buns.
Hard, tight buns.

[Chovexani]

23. These articles are bullshit, have always been bullshit, and always will be bullshit.

I would go so far as to say 99% of these discussions are bullshit, period. Sexuality in general, regardless of gender, is not a binary thing, it's far more fluid than mainstream society with its homophobia and various fucked up gender and sexual hangups believes or is prepared to accept. I honestly believe that if all things were equal and our taboos against homosexuality and bisexuality were gone, we would see more men doing these things as well. There are people who are dead on Kinsey 1s and 6s, and there are people who fall somewhere in the middle (or nowhere at all! asexuality ahoy), and all of these folks are fairly equally split among genders. If people were free to express themselves and have worked through their baggage, I think the numbers would be far more even.

The reason why fluidity appears to skew towards women is because our society is deeply sexist and has weird, fucked up double standards about sexuality and sexual expression. In a patriarchal society, the Mighty Peen reigns supreme, and male expressions of sexuality are policed to the extreme because they are powerful. Power is dangerous. Thus the screams that male sexuality is HARD WIRED AND BINARY OKAY!!11, thus the quick declarations of "no homo" after any sort of vaguely homoerotic behavior or statement. Thus the endlessly growing plethora of stupid, infantile euphemisms for male relationships and attractions whose real purpose is to say, "REALLY, I'M NOT GAY": "mancrush", "bromance", etc. Male homosexuality is treated like the ol' one drop rule in the South. I like to call it the One Wang Rule. One wang, and you're gay, period. Which is horrible and to be avoided at all costs, you don't want to be a fruit, do you? Men are subjected to a kind of sexual straitjacket that constantly polices their behavior for any signs of dreaded faggotry. Growing up in this kind of atmosphere, is it any wonder even well-adjusted and secure men refuse to admit to even maybe thinking that one dude they saw at the gym that time was kind of hot? Of course male sexuality is going to appear to be fixed. No one wants to drop the poker face for fear of getting fag bashed.

OTOH, female expressions of sexuality are generally not taken seriously at all. After all, women are silly and flighty and fickle and nothing we do matters compared to men, even in bed. Because there's no peen involved, understand. Therefore, it's not "really" sex, and it's not really a threat. And everything we do and are is for the benefit of men, anyway, so if we want to play around a little, it's hot and not a big deal, hmm?

Here's the thing, though: women are policed also, but in an entirely different way than men. People often love to claim that it's more acceptable for women to explore same-gender attraction, but the reality is that so-called "privilege" to be ogled and/or dismissed in a paternalist fashion is extended only to women who meet society's definition of sexually attractive and/or available. The "lesbians are hot" fallacy does not apply to women who are not conventionally attractive, or who present/identify as butch, or (generally speaking) women of color. It's okay for pretty white sorority girls to make out with each other in cheesy bars or Girls Gone Wild DVDs, it's hot and harmless. It's even okay for them to "date" each other and play at "relationships". Because everyone knows at the end of the day, they're going home to a peen. And, perhaps most importantly, these women are not rejecting a heterosexual identity out of hand. Therefore, they're not threatening.

Note that actual lesbian and bisexual-identified women, and questioning women who fit any of the proscribed categories I mentioned, are left entirely out of these discussions. Note that more people have heard Katy Perry's "I Kissed a Girl" (a song about straight frat bar "lesbianism", written exclusively for the benefit of the male gaze), than the older Jill Sobule "I Kissed a Girl", which is an actual celebration of genuine female same-gender attraction. Note the endless fascination with the Lindsay Lohan/Sam Ronson relationship and the breathless speculation about whether Lohan is "really" straight or gay, there is no room for a bisexual identity. Note the seemingly endless parade of questions from addle-brained straight boys about what women "do" with one another in the bedroom--our dick-obsessed patriarchy simply can't conceive of "real" sex taking place without one (and I deeply pity these morans' partners if their imagination and ignorance of female anatomy is that lacking). Hell, even in this very thread, female same-gender attraction/expression is being callously dismissed as simply the result of society pushing the (slender, white, Aryan-looking) female form as the pinnacle of hot. A woman couldn't possibly come to the realization that she is gay after a life lived in ostensible heterosexuality. She couldn't possibly be genuinely questioning her sexuality. No, it's all media influence, because everyone knows women are like children and easily led by the shiny moving picture box. :eyes:

I'm not trying to say that women don't have a right to identify as however they choose, or as nothing at all, or question. What I'm saying is that I have a very real problem with articles that try to draw conclusions about female sexuality as a whole from said women, that ignore the larger cultural context of these attractions/interactions, and that completely dismiss the life experiences and perspectives of lesbian and bisexual identified women. What I'm saying is that I wish everyone, regardless of gender or how they identify, could be free to question and explore their sexuality in a healthy, respectful manner.

This article is yet another in a long line of attempts by the mainstream media to pass off hetero male fantasies as legitimate discussion of sexuality. The goal of these things is not to educate, the goal is to titillate and reduce female sexuality to a fad or some nonsense to be gawked at and not taken seriously. It's just "hurrrr lesbians r hawt" with a thin veneer of sociology over it. And once again, queer women's lives are being rendered invisible. Bisexual men are even more invisible, but that's a topic for a whole other post.

[distantearlywarning]

27. I want to recommend *this* post!

Bravo!

:applause:

[raccoon]

34. Great post!

This is a keeper:

" The goal of these things is not to educate, the goal is to titillate"

The goal of lots of articles, books, so-called news is to titillate.

[seabeyond]

35. i thought great post and keeper too. i wanted to pull out exactly that point too, and

privilige the woman with an oogle too. and none of it is for the womans sake or ego.... all for the male.

[Withywindle]

46. If I had a man, I would leave him for this post.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

No, it's all media influence, because everyone knows women are like children and easily led by the shiny moving picture box.


I hate this notion so, so much. Because if it weren't for "the media", of course, we would all have a "natural" sexuality that would be...well, I guess whatever the poster on that particular tear at the time thinks it should be.

We have no frakkin' idea what "natural" sexuality looks like. As long as we live under patriarchy, we never will. We can't even compare to the animal world because we're very rare in not having an estrus cycle. We make the best of what we've got, and that's called experimentation and trial-and-error and a two-steps-forward-one-step-back lurching towards better understanding and freedom and justice.

The One Wang Rule - Oh my god, that's exactly it. Rather than turning this into another tedious "what do women want?" pearl-clutching fest that pathologizes perfectly rational female behavior, let's turn this around and ask why it is that MEN are pressured so very hard to be so uptight about the degree of bisexuality that's probably every bit as common in them as it is in women, just far more feared and pathologically repressed?

[supernova]

51. +10 Brilliant!!

:applause:

Probably the best perspective I've seen on DU about this topic.

And the "One Wang Rule" made me :rofl: :rofl: It's so true.

[myrna minx]

66. Excellent post.

:applause: If I could recommend this post, I would.

[bemildred]

24. Everybody is different, we should not generalize. nt

[distantearlywarning]

26. Women's sexuality is *socially* less fixed than men's

Not physically.

Men just aren't as free to express their feelings that might be on more than one end of the spectrum.

[bluedawg12]

29. Nope, look at ancient Greece.

For example in ancient Greece same sex love was accepted between males, and therefore, common.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w...uality_in_ancient_Greece

>>In classical antiquity, writers such as Herodotus,<1> Plato,<2> Xenophon,<3> Athenaeus<4> and many others explored aspects of same-sex love in ancient Greece. The most widespread and socially significant form of close same-sex sexual relations in ancient Greece was between adult men and adolescent boys, known as pederasty. (It is important to note, however, that marriages in Ancient Greece between men and women were also age structured, with men in their 30s commonly taking wives in their early teens.)<<

[seabeyond]

32. just another, ... lets use womens sexuality to stimulate, excite and entertain male

cause after all, that is our place.

fact and reality has no part in this fantasy

[KansDem]

38. In the half century I've been walking around on this planet, I've observed...

Women tend to be more comfortable in the company of other women. Can't say the same about men, unless there's a glass of beer or scotch involved...

I tend to think men are more comfortable as loners, particularly later in life...

[bluedawg12]

41. Why let facts intrude on a good gab fest? :)

>> J Sex Res. 2006 Feb;43(1):46-58.
Sexual identity development among gay, lesbian, and bisexual youths: consistency and change over time.Rosario M, Schrimshaw EW, Hunter J, Braun L.
Department of Psychology, The City University of New York, The City College and Graduate Center, NAC Building 7-120, Convent Avenue and 138th Street, New York, NY 10031, USA.

A longitudinal report of 156 gay, lesbian, and bisexual youths examined changes in sexual identity over time. Fifty-seven percent of the youths remained consistently self-identified as gay/lesbian, 18% transited from bisexual to gay/lesbian, and 15% consistently identified as bisexual over time. Although youths who consistently identified as gay/lesbian did not differ from other youths on time since experiencing sexual developmental milestones, they reported current sexual orientation and sexual behaviors that were more same-sex centered and they scored higher on aspects of the identity integration process (e.g., more certain, comfortable, and accepting of their same-sex sexuality, more involved in gay-related social activities, more possessing of positive attitudes toward homosexuality, and more comfortable with others knowing about their sexuality) than youths who transited to a gay/lesbian identity and youths who consistently identified as bisexual. Contrary to the hypothesis that females are more sexually fluid than males, female youths were less likely to change identities than male youths. THe finding that youths who transited to a gay/lesbian identity differed from consistently gay/lesbian youths suggests that identity integration continues after the adoption of a gay/lesbian sexual identity.
<<

[Matariki]

47. I think it's because we've been bombarded with pictures sexualizing women for so long

so both men and woman are more conditioned to be sexually attracted to women.

More photos of buff, half naked men and we might see more Kinsey scale bi-sexuality in men as well.

[CTyankee]

48. I consider myself heterosexual exclusively but I have a number of women friends

and am very comfortable with my gay friends' situations. I've never been sexually attracted to women and I've never wondered why. I don't doubt that this story could be true for some women but I don't see it for myself.

[Lorien]

50. I remember reading an article ages ago that said that about 12% or men are

gay, while only 2-3% of women are lesbians. Personally I think that the whole "women's sexuality is less fixed" myth is just a male fantasy.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

52. Other: Since Tiresias is a mythological figure, there's no way to know. -nt

[Political Tiger]

53. I think women have less hangups about sexuality than men.

n/t

[ismnotwasm]

59. Hell no

Actual gender sexual fluidity is probably fairly even on a biological scale. What we have is a lot of social conditioning. Obvious social conditioning.

And this bullshit; "Sexual fluidity is not somthing women can control" to me, is just about on the same logic level as asking "Did the good professor quit beating his wife/husband?".

[H2O Man]

64. Gosh.

I don't think you can blame anyone for wanting to stick their face in a little every now and then.

[seabeyond]

68. then equally, we shouldnt blame anyone (males) that may want to

suck a dick every now and then.

[H2O Man]

72. Not sure who

the "we" are that blame anyone, in the context of this thread. I will exclude myself, thanks. What other adults do is fine by me.

[seabeyond]

74. here is the point

"I don't think you can blame anyone for wanting to stick their face in a little every now and then."

you used blame, so i picked it up even though not appropriate. i was mimicking. secondly, you state we all want to put face in. then we all want to suck dick, ergo you included. you didnt exclude anyone in your post, why should you exclude yourself in gender shift. what is good for goose is good for gander. tit for tat. or

your post is bullshit, lol.

[H2O Man]

75. Gosh.

You a piece of work.

[seabeyond]

76. aaahhhhh, thanks. wink. n/t

[rucky]

69. Gray's Anatomy tells me this is true. n/t

[La Lioness Priyanka]

70. ugh what a badly written article. this should have been an article about women coming out later

in life. not, about why women are leaving men for other women. daft.