What is bothering me a great deal about the entire issue of torture is...

[Hepburn]

...we, the people, were never told at the time it was happening.

If those who we sent to Congress were briefed, found out about waterboarding or other torture, thought it was going on, etc, starting in 2002 and 2003, then:

Why the hell didn't the truth come out long ago? To me, there is NO excuse that the Pubbies where in control or that they thought the illegal method of torture might yield necessary results, etc, etc. Our country was acting illegally and immorally...and some of them KNEW it...and KNEW it for sure.

WTF kind of excuse for NOT stepping up to the plate and spilling this shit? I cannot believe that there was NOTHING that an elected official could not do to stop this horror.

JMHO

[Fresh_Start]

1. the majority of Congress did not know

and people didn't want to believe the members of the military who said it was going on.

Just like people didn't want to believe the returning Vietnam vets about what was happening.

[Supersedeas]

3. and the few that were informed were obligated to U.S. secrecy/national security laws

[Fresh_Start]

6. yes, thats also true

after the failure of the administration itself.
the next big fail is the military itself.
There was a whiny mouth general saying 'whats a mere general to do, when the President wants something'?

The answer is refuse to comply with an illegal order.
The military leadership failed.
I don't blame the troops, they don't have the advantage of refusing a direct order.
But the leadership should be cast out in disgrace - one and all.

[RaleighNCDUer]

8. ...which need to be reformed.

there is no way that criminals should be able to hide their criminal actions behind the shield of 'national security'.

It should NEVER be illegal to report a crime.

[Hepburn]

11. Trust me....

...I believed the VN vets.

[kentuck]

2. They only told a small number of Democrats, four, I think?

Ones that they knew would not divulge the information and ones they knew they could manipulate, unfortunately.

[Hepburn]

12. Pelosi, Graham (which turned out to be a lie), and who else, if you know.

TIA...I am unsure as to what members of Congress knew.

[Echo In Light]

4. It would help if more stopped and really considered our outrageous, annual military budget

That alone should prompt all sorts of questions and concerns along these lines.

[OHdem10]

5. Here is the best answer I can give. Senator Bob Graham, very

strong Democrat from Fla. lost his seat in the Senate for standing
up against the War In Iraq and all its implications.

In a feverish time such as War one person cannot do much and
stands to lose.

The only thing that would have worked is if the Democratic Party
on Hill (House and Senate) had stood up and said "enough"

This was never going to happen because we had so many Red State
Democrats who actually believed in the war or feared their fate
would be the same as Bob Graham.

Has no observed that even though the GOP is small in numbers they
exert clout everywhere. WHY. They come out as a group fighting
and therefore cannot be ignored. They get themselves TV Coverage
and everything else they think they need. They act tough and knowledgeable
(whether they are or not).


.

[bluedeminredstate]

7. I believe Bob Graham

gave up his Senate seat. He chose not to run.

[Karenina]

9. OH, BULLSHIT!!!

The U.S. MIC has been engaging in and enabling torture for OUR ENTIRE LIFETIMES. Please wake up. Howard Zinn has written some EXCELLENT books. Then, of course, there's Smedley Butler's must-read WAR IS A RACKET

These tactics have been used for centuries NOT to extract "truth" (as Rachel has so neatly covered) but rather to advance an agenda of asserting power and control.

[Hepburn]

10. Wow....

...step away from your keyboard before you melt it, OK?

:eyes:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

13. Everybody knew there was torture. I knew it. You knew it. Everybody knew it.

We saw the pictures on national TV just weeks after 9-11.

Can we cut the business about people not knowing they were mistreating prisoners please?