Well it's official GM WILL declare bankruptcy on the 1st of June

[TwixVoy]

Breaking news on the front page www.Bloomberg.com .

The ripple effect of this will be massive.

Make no mistake the bastards that run this country financially intended for this to happen to break the last stronghold of the unions. We are ALL going to see a major standard of living decrease over the next few years as a result of this. The corporations now officially own our asses.

[Taverner]

1. Fuck. This is not good.

[NightWatcher]

2. tis ok, they'll still exist as a company, just doing business in China

what's the number of parts suppliers and other support persons who will lose their jobs? a few millions

[PassingFair]

3. Worse...the government will own the corporations that officially own our asses.

snip>

New Owners

The filing shows the U.S. Treasury owning 72.5 percent of equity in the new GM, a union health-care trust with 17.5 percent and 10 percent going to the old GM to hand to creditors in the bankruptcy process.

[Oregone]

9. Why is it bad to have the government as a major shareholder?

When profit is generated, it will be directed towards public coffers rather than stored away in a private vault of the great descendant of a rich slave owner to never again see the light of day (taxed only at 15%).

[readmoreoften]

20. No, a capitalist state is more likely to socialize the losses into the public coffers

and let CEOs keep the profits. The kind of state we live in exists to protect the interests of the wealthiest 1%.

[Oregone]

24. Do you understand what capitalism is?

Its essentially an ability of private owners to profit from others labor by owning the means of production.

"let CEOs keep the profits"

CEOs don't keep profits! CEO pay is an expense--they are well paid "laborers". Profit is everything you have left over after expenses. That is directed to shareholders, or otherwise used to purchase outstanding stock to bolster stock prices of shareholders. If the government is a shareholder, they will receive 70% of the profits of the company.

In the current status quo in capitalism, the owners of the means of production are ghastly unheard of entities that inherited their position in life. They do *nothing* at al and will always continue to receive capital gains from industry. This money is taxed at 15% and hidden away in a great void. The actual companies that produce the capital often do not even see it again.

"capitalist state is more likely"

Do you realize that when the state owns the means of production, it is by definition "socialism". Albeit, this socialistic entity would still compete in a mixed market, the basic ownership is public. This vastly shifts the paradigm.

[PassingFair]

22. I'm not too keen on corporations and government being married like this.

I don't believe that "profit...will be directed towards public coffers"
in this situation.

[Oregone]

25. It is far more concerning when private and public entities are involved and there is no ownership...

but rather, corruption and conflicts of interest.

In the case of ownership, this creates a scenario of socialism. Despite "believing" or not about where profit will be directed, it will always, in corporations, be directed to the owners of the means of production. In socialism, such owners are the government.

The reality is, with the amount of money the government has shuttled at these companies, it is about time they received an ownership stake. It damn well should remain permanent (no re-privatized) and profitably for all the people of the United States.

[PassingFair]

27. It should, but I've seen no indication that it WILL.

In fact, I think I've read that it
will be re-privatized, once we the
people have been force-fed the debt.

[Hannah Bell]

29. but though they're the majority owner, & have loaned GM beaucoup bucks,

they're second in line for repayment: after the bondholders.

[A HERETIC I AM]

4. They will file for Chapter 11 bankruptcy PROTECTION.....

in order to reorganize. This is not a Chapter 7 liquidation.

Saying "GM will declare bankruptcy" is somewhat misleading given the context of what Chapter 11 entails.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chapter_11

A brief description of the difference between Chapter 7 and Chapter 11 from Investopedia.com;
http://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/190.asp

[TwixVoy]

5. Are you daft?

Do you realize chapter 11 COMPLETELY breaks the unions overnight? Do you realize a large part of this will involve shifting the VAST MAJORITY of GMs manufacturing operations to Asia? Are you aware EVERYONE they owe money to is now shit out of luck - which will result in MASSIVE numbers of chapter SEVEN bankruptcys all around the country from other businesses that were owed millions from GM?

Chapter 11 is basically a "Kill the unions, move the company to China" move. GM as we know it is DEAD.

[A HERETIC I AM]

6. Are you?

All I did was state a fact about Chapter 11. Your headline is MISLEADING on its face.

This is hardly "breaking" news, BTW. Bloomberg had a story on their front page this morning before the market opened indicating this notice was imminent. If there was any other doubt, all one had to do was simply look at their common stock over the last 12 months.

http://finance.yahoo.com/echarts?s=GM#symbol=GM;range=2y

This is a member of the Dow 30 that was trading in the $20's 12 months ago and now trades just above a buck. It has been priced for bankruptcy for weeks.

Prove your assertion that "chapter 11 COMPLETELY breaks the unions overnight" as well as the idea that "this will involve shifting the VAST MAJORITY of GMs manufacturing operations to Asia".

Just put forward something to prove these claims. Or don't. I honestly don't give a fuck.

Is it a bad thing? Of course it is. Is it going to hurt a lot of people and a lot of other companies? Damned straight. But this isn't fucking breaking news. The running in circles and screaming has all been done, months ago.

Apparently it bothers you that I didn't nod agreement with you and had the temerity to point out that Chapter 11 is not the end.

Tough.

[yodoobo]

19. The headline is 100% accurate

And your links confirm it.

Ch.7 and Ch.11 are both bankruptcy.

In short, the difference between 7 and 11 is how the assets are disposed of (liquidated or reorgnized)

[cherokeeprogressive]

7. If it's true that the government will have a 70% stake in GM...

Then here come the two-seat electric go-karts!

[Oregone]

11. You mean like these that "hog" the roads up north of you...

http://www.thesmart.ca/index.cfm?ID=4720

Good, you should welcome that.

[cherokeeprogressive]

12. "the remarkable tridion safety cell."

Reminds me of alpha-hydroxies...

I don't welcome it at all. I live in a mountain community where there is snow that turns to compacted ice on the roadways. I'm not riding in a roller-skate on the roads where I live.

[Oregone]

13. Buy a horse then

[vadawg]

14. nah do what i did, buy a toyota truck, reliable, good off road.

[cherokeeprogressive]

16. Had one for about 6 years. In-line four, 4x4 single-cab. Dependable to a fault.

I actually drove it for about three years without a third gear. Three times from here to Boise and back. There I was, in the slow truck lane, going up the hills in second gear at about 20 mph. With a smile on my face, and the emergency flashers on.

[cherokeeprogressive]

15. Never have been a horse person.

I guess I'll drive my Tahoe until it gives up the ghost. Safely, and confidently. Seeing as how my town is 5 miles from one end to the other, it should last a good long time. 67,000 miles on it already and the only repairs I've had to pay for were front brake rotors. The Smart Car will be nothing more than a pinball up here. I hope those who drive it have good insurance; auto AND health.

[Oregone]

17. "hope those who drive it have good insurance"

Well, most driving those so far have socialized auto and health insurance so they are good to go.

Its a great city car (large and small alike). They even have truck beds on some. And I don't see people dieing en masse in them. Its awfully neat to see so many people who need light transport buy these things.

And yes, of course I understand they aren't practical for every situation. But, ya know, a company like GM can possibly make more than a single type of car/truck. :)

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. You made me curious. After a short Google search, I just may have to rethink my opinion

Gotta Have One!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MA7oADAI9lo

[B Calm]

8. For the last 5 years I have been hauling truck bumpers to the

automobile companies. Today I was laid off!

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. I am VERY sorry to hear that.

I don't see a point in the near future where people working in auto related industries will stop getting laid off.

Best of Luck to You, BC. Here's to the hope that things work out for you and yours.

[Liberal_in_LA]

21. heard parts suppliers are getting ready to file bankruptcy in response.

[symbolman]

23. So who's going to own all those factories here in 'Merica?

Someone should swoop in, buy those manufacturing plants and start making '68 Chevy Impalas again :)

Shit, that may mean that getting parts for my Jeep could even be a problem.. you could always depend on GM parts being available, build a whole car from parts if you needed..

Should invest in a junk yard, probably get rich in the next 10 to 20 years on parts alone..

[mtnester]

26. Well, my GMAC lease is up in 60 days

I have been sitting tight, waiting first to see if my dealer/salesperson kept their dealership/job (they did)

Now, I have been waiting to see if GM declares bankruptcy (they will)

I am back to square 1, I have no idea what my options are, what or WHO I will be dropping this vehicle off to (they cannot sell it to me, which is a really really bad move by them, but)

I will have to go visit my salesperson again. I was hoping for one of the new Equinoxes, but I am guessing they will be shutting down all production for the time being..who the hell knows.

I know, this ain't all about me, but a little part of it is. A little part of this is about each of us...because I believe there is not one single person in this country that will not somehow be effected by this GMAC filing (as well as Chrysler)..you will either be effected directly, indirectly, through family or friends, SOMEHOW.

I was going to make a huge decision about purchasing a vehicle as opposed to leasing (I have leased for years, and personally like it...that said GMAC is now out of the leasing business and has been since last fall, which I knew), and I wanted to buy from a US based company (Chrysler, GM or Ford) Plus, I would have to look for a new salesperson, someone I do not know, nor really trust yet (the last salesperson I dealt with got canned and the dealership had to contact all of us as he deliberately discriminated against a lot of women customers, who had great enough credit to have always had GMAC financing, and moved them all to bank leases by using a lie, he only did it to women, he got shit canned, and each of us got called in and offered out of our leases, and back into GMAC financing...I think to keep us from suing..it worked)

So, any suggestions? Any rumors that anyone can verify?

Sigh.

[B Calm]

28. I heard Thom Hartmann say on his radio show that GM

may have been able to make it through even without bankruptcy. The labor union was pitching in, the government was helping out, but millionaires investing in hedge funds stand to make billions if GM fails. What these Wall Street weasels in the hedge fund industry has done, is not only bought up GM debt so now they are major bond holders, but they also bought insurance (or bets) that the bets they own will go bad. As it turns out, the debt that they are holding with GM is twenty-seven billion bucks, but if GM goes down and because of their insurance policy for thirty-four billion (which is bigger than their debt), they stand to make billions of dollars. This is what I call predatory capitalism! What kind of screwed up system do we have, where the blood sucking gamblers on Wall Street who don’t make one damn thing can make money by killing a company and throwing people out of work? The millionaire hedge fund holders have been doing something kind of similar with oil over the last few years and making out like bandits. These filthy, predatory capitalists are destroying this country! This is the kind of behavior that has been going on all through the Bush years and looks like it might linger on for a little while longer, unless the democrats start doing something about it! The good news is, the democratic party is in charge now and we have a chance. The democrats have already started enacting legislation and adopting rules to keep these low life bastardly bastards in check.