Will we get real health-care reform, or a for-profit snow job?

[Naturyl]

Poll question: Will we get real health-care reform, or a for-profit snow job?

[TexasObserver]

1. No. We will get a weak public option that bows to the HMOs

recommend, because it needs to be assessed

[kirby]

2. I dont know the details yet until I see the Senate bill...

Requiring a mandate so that everyone is required to have insurance, requiring disallowing of pre-existing conditions, making insurance portable, getting rid of medical underwriting requirement (open enrollment for all) would be a great start on the access front. Affordability is another issue but enlarging the pool of insured should help spread the cost.

[lindisfarne]

3. So unless it's single-payer, you define it to be a for-profit snow job? Of course, you realize there

are many ways to set up single-payer; not all are good.

[Naturyl]

4. How about HR 676?

http://www.hr676.org/

[lindisfarne]

5. When it has a chance in hell, let me know. n/t

[Naturyl]

6. So what does have a chance in hell?

Something that continues to leave many millions (primarily the poorest) uninsured or underinsured, perhaps?

[lindisfarne]

7. I don't see SP as inherently better than the public option with private insurance alongside. I've

argued this in other threads and can provide those links.

More of the American public wants the public option with private insurance alongside, in part because many are skeptical of a gov't program. I'm sure you are of the opinion they are wrong, but that's really not the issue. You're not going to "educate" most of those folks to your position (think about the Bus years and trying to educate people then).

In the end, it really doesn't matter. If the public option is more efficient than private insurance, it will be cheaper. And most folks will vote with their wallet.

Initially public option will not be open to all, but it will down the road. As time passes, if it proves to be effective, I'd like to see a law that if an employer offers more than one health insurance option, they need to include the public option as one of those options.

[Naturyl]

8. "Cheaper" doesn't help those with nothing.

Are the desperately poor, homeless, jobless, and others with zero resources going to have access to health care or not? Answering that question is my main priority.

[lindisfarne]

9. There are "affordability credits" in the current proposed bills. n/t

[Naturyl]

10. Okay. Glad to hear it. I'll have to look into that.

Do you happen to know offhand whether they are tax credits, though? What form do these credits take? Will they actually provide the means for poor people to get access to health care?

I'm asking because the trend for quite a while has been to do everything through "tax credits," which of course do zippo for the deeply poor since most do not pay (or even file) taxes.

[lindisfarne]

11. I can't believe you know next to nothing about the proposed bills yet are criticizing

them?
Start here for House bill:
http://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/legislation?id=0327
Nice summaries of various aspects the bill -- PDF links near bottom are particularly useful.
Spending the time carefully reading the sections of the bill which interest you may be useful, but it is dense legislative-ese and can take time, so the summaries are the next best thing.

Another link:
http://edlabor.house.gov/blog/2009/07/americas-affordable-health-choices-act.shtml

Ezra Klein article on House bill:
http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2009/07/the_house_releases_its_health-.html

There are links on DU to the 2 Senate bills or use google.

I get so tired of DUers being so uninformed. I've wasted my time even replying because I assumed you at least were aware of the basics. Please research and be informed.

I know I sound harsh but gee - the information is easy to find.

There has been thread after thread after thread on this on DU.

Obviously, the bills currently are proposals. But there are some things which you can pretty much be assured will be in the final bills. To have an idea of what these are, you have to have followed the debate pretty closely, including listening to Obama's statements. And, if you see essentially the same provisions in the house & senate bills, you can be pretty certain they'll be kept in the final bill.

[Naturyl]

13. I already said I'll look into it.

I admittedly don't know much about the specifics of certain proposals, but I also don't need to know a whole lot of specifics in order to pose the question I have already stated is my primary concern. Are poor people going to have access to health care or not? Since you haven't yet given me a definitive answer, I'll go ahead and scour the links for it later.

And yeah, if it doesn't provide a way for every American to access health care, then it's a for-profit snow job.

[lindisfarne]

15. How did I not answer your question? I mentioned affordability credits. But I'm glad you'll do

the research, because it's always better to read it for yourself than to get it 2nd or 3rd-hand (things get messed up as you get further from the source).

[JDPriestly]

21. Thanks for the links. I tried to find the bill earlier today and could not locate

it through Google. Your patience will be appreciated. Many of us do not spend that much time on the computer.

[JDPriestly]

19. The only reason single payer doesn't have a chance is that our Congress

works for the insurance companies and big business and not for us. That is very sad. We can do better.

[lexanman]

12. We will get what we fight for

[Naturyl]

14. That's not too encouraging.

We should have fought for single payer from day one, and accepted no substitutes.

Instead, we seem willing to settle for whatever they hand us and hope we get something at least halfway decent, since single-payer is out.

If we get what we fight for, then we can probably expect very little.

[lexanman]

16. your last sentence says it all

All that evil needs to succeed is for good men to do nothing.

[Greyhound]

17. It looks like we'll end up with a mandatory insurance scam written by the

health care denial industry that they push onto us while claiming it is "a step in the right direction". IOW, they're going to piss down our backs and tell us it's raining.

"America has one political party with two right wings" - Gore Vidal

Let's go to Scandinavia...

[leftstreet]

18. WOW These DU polls looked much different last fall

Where's the love for the single payer option?

Right after Obama was elected everyone had so much !Hope! and they were sure we'd get single payer.

[Naturyl]

20. I was hopeful, but the honeymoon is over.

Obama is light-years better than Bush (that goes without saying), but a leftist he is not.