I really don’t like to be viewed as someone who dislikes hippies, their ideals, or their history.

[RadiationTherapy]

I believe 100% that the hippies were ‘right’. The time I spent learning about that sub-culture and mimicking it have influenced me deeply and forever. The soundtrack of that time is also the soundtrack of my own memories and many of my own magical journeys.


For me, the point is that nostalgia doesn't rectify 40+ years our culture demonstrating none of the hippie ideals that were touted during that unique time. Not only is our country more materialistic and consumerist than ever, there are very, very few enclaves where communion, brotherhood, sisterhood, reverence for nature and childlike curiosity are demonstrated. I have been to a dozen rainbow gatherings and meetings, attended bread and puppet in northern vermont, lived in the national forest, traveled by backpack and bus to Costa Rica and back with a 6yr old, 4yr old, and a 2yr old and lived in the jungle communally with others. I have traveled this country left, right, up, and down by foot, bus, car and plane. I have only had glimpses of communion; there is no enduring legacy. Something faded and the country turned hard right.


It becomes increasingly difficult to live in an increasingly consumerist society and listen to how the world was changed; how aquarius was ushered in during the 1960s. It becomes increasingly difficult to hear about how we have to conserve now because the consumption that occurred these past 50 years has put the earth on the brink of catastrophe, yet recompense or significant sacrifices cannot be considered from those who were adults at that time.

I hope you can believe me when I say that I love stories about human bonding and memorable moments; I understand how intensely magical they can be. I love hearing about the experiences and journeys that seem exclusive to the human condition. The 1960s hippies have wonderful stories as do every group and sub-culture. I understand the nostalgia and celebration of life. g.

[MineralMan]

1. I don't understand.Did someone accuse you of that?

This is sort of out of the blue.

[Gormy Cuss]

2. Probably an outgrowth of this OP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6313931&mesg_id=6313931

[RadiationTherapy]

3. It's a long story...*link*

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6313931

[MineralMan]

10. OK, well...perhaps your argument belongs as a reply in that

thread. Posting it as an OP pretty much requires an explanation.

[T Wolf]

4. With the 40th anniversary of Woodstock just passing, there have been many stories and

editorial opinions written and published and broadcast about how wrong those dirty hippies were. How none of our ideals have been brought to fruition. About how we really were just a bunch of selfish, drug-addled, sexually-deviant adolescents who contributed nothing to society. A fad better ignored except as an example of liberalness run amok.

Even some so-called libs have jumped on the trash-the-sixties bandwagon.

[Enrique]

5. I don't see what the problem is

I don't think any hippie thinks their dream was fulfilled. They know it died.

[T Wolf]

6. The message has been that those dreams were not worthy in the first place. nt

[Enrique]

8. if someone thinks that, then I see why they wouldn't like Woodstock

what I don't get is this person and others who agree with the dream but don't like Woodstock. I never got that.

[RadiationTherapy]

23. I do not dislike woodstock. I have an opinion as to its cultural relevance

beyond the group that attended.

[pipi_k]

7. I was just thinking something similar the other day

My High School class song was "Aquarius"

Back then we all hoped for a different kind of world.

Peace, love, harmony, understanding


What have we got instead?


It makes me very sad. We were young, and we were hopeful. Maybe very naive...

What the hell happened? Where the hell did all our dreams and good intentions go?

:(

[MineralMan]

12. The 60s were not wasted.

We have a black President. We've gained many things since that time. As an old geezer who participated in the goings-on of the 60s and 70s, I can definitely see many changes that came from that time.

No, we didn't get everything we wanted. We never do.

But, we have a black President. I would never have thought that possible.

[pipi_k]

41. I had forgotten about that...

Funny that I would. I mean, to me it was just like, something that would naturally occur, you know?

thanks for the reminder... :)

[WhiteTara]

18. co opted by Madison Ave and

stolen elections by the republicans.

[snagglepuss]

9. Great post.

[L0oniX]

11. Funny how the young seem to think they will never get old but yet they attack the older generation.

[Romulox]

15. It's also funny how the "don't trust anyone over 30 crowd" is now demanding we respect our elders.

:silly:

[L0oniX]

19. It's also funny that the youth think that the elder give a damn what they think.

[Romulox]

20. LOL. So now being a crotchedy old man = rebelling against your grandkids?

Too silly. :silly:

[L0oniX]

21. Well I am sure that that young are much more wise than the older and can solve all the problems.

After all the older have to work and do what ever to raise the kids so the kids could fix all the problems that were created while the older were working to raise the kids.

[Romulox]

22. Jesus man, doesn't the word "irony" mean a thing to you? nt

[TexasObserver]

13. Nostalgia is about remembering the good and choosing not to think about the bad.

As one gets older, one has to choose whether to do that, or whether to look at the past with anger and pain. We choose the narrative we want to choose.

Every generation is nostalgic, but the boomer generation came of age in an era when TV made all events bigger than life, when big news dominated EVERY TV screen in the country.

It was a race war. It was a culture war. Wars, assassinations, riots, bombings, and all manner of upheaval. Of course it changed the world. Did that change become all that we hoped for, all that we imagined? Not even close. But as Chrissie Hynde wrote, even if you're in the gutter, you need to be looking at the stars.

It was a magical time, but the hedonistic 1970s were really a lot more fun. From the fall of Saigon until the fall of the US embassy in Iran (1975-1979), it was hip huggers, platform shoes, pimp hats, disco, free love, almost no drug enforcement, and a par-tay that was a welcome relief from the 12 angst ridden years that preceded 1975.

All stories of nostalgia should be taken with a grain of salt. We romanticize as we put more and more years between us and some long past event.

I oppose bitterness that attempts to blame or praise generations, whether they're boomers or something else. I'll jump down into the message board mosh pit to duke it out for boomers and take a few shots at younger generations, but mainly just to give them the same kind of pushback we got from our elders, and the kind they'll give the generations who follow them. Everyone eventually grows older, and if they're lucky, they gain insight and lose some of their youthful pissiness.

[omega minimo]

31. The Baby Boom is also a wide range of age/experience; those who listened to Pretenders have

different narratives than the bulk of older Boomers.

[Romulox]

14. The results speak for themselves. If the hippies "changed the world", much of it was for the worse.

A LOT worse.

"It becomes increasingly difficult to live in an increasingly consumerist society and listen to how the world was changed"

This is a good capsulization of my feelings.

[kid a]

16. you sound like stewie griffin

i found a video of you in college:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLWm9x8hCz4

[TexasObserver]

25. more like this one!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2T-JfYYaBpA&feature=related

24 seconds of Stewie's grape stomping scene!

[RadiationTherapy]

26. Hahahahaaa! Cause i'm like a baby who can talk!

Hahaha! I'm a baby!!

[TexasObserver]

32. No, because it's a parody of an actual event.

One in which the well meaning reporter fell flat on her face.

[RadiationTherapy]

34. Will you help me understand how it is a metaphor for my online presence?

[TexasObserver]

35. OK.

The parody is based upon an actual TV news clip. A news reporter went to the site, took her shoes off, got up in the tub, and proceeded to stomp grapes. As she was getting out of the tub, she stumbled, and face planted. Hence, the "ow, ow, ow, owie!"

The metaphor: Like the news reporter, you've climbed up before us to tell us how you feel about something, but you've stumbled and fallen face first.

[RadiationTherapy]

36. Where is the 'stumble and fall' part?

[TexasObserver]

42. I agreed to explain it to you.

If you don't see it, well, there you are.

[RadiationTherapy]

43. That's what I expected.

It had some cleverness potential, but didn't really pan out.

[Traveling_Home]

17. Welcome Home!!

Next year back east - "Ignore all rumors of cancellation"

:hippie::hippie::hippie::hippie::hippie::hippie::hippie::hippie::hippie::hippie::hippie::hippie:

[RadiationTherapy]

24. I wish it did feel like home again, T_H.

I have miles and years before I can go back, I think.

Once there was a way
To get back homeward.

Once there was a way
To get back home.

[Traveling_Home]

59. no mind

the call went out - you heard its siren call - Time to come home again. drop Babylon - the maya is always the maya. Get your centered clearsight ready so he can xsee into other hearts

"The times they re a changing"

It's called a heartsong not a mindsong or a logicsong - it'a Heartsong calling ya home.

Om Shiva and say hello to the Gimps R Us kitchen and camp - we'e on Facebook too

Old Tom

You wrote
"I have miles and years before I can go back, I think.

Once there was a way
To get back homeward.

Once there was a way
To get back home."

SHOWING UP IS HALF THE BATTLE - COME TO SERVE - COME HOME

[omega minimo]

27. And yet it's still all about YOU. You couldn't post this in your own thread this is relevant to?

This OP may be a heartfelt olive branch..... still, posted outside your thread, seems narcissistic as any Gen X or Boom whinging.

Do you ever consider all the people who feel the way you do about those intervening years and where we are now, who are older than you?

Ever notice people :hi: questioning and commenting on it quite a bit?

Ever listen to the people who are between the two sparring generations?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6323732&mesg_id=6323732
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=6310809&mesg_id=6310809

Ever look at how the effects of that time DID survive into this one?

[RadiationTherapy]

28. No, I chose to start a thread about it.

Narcissistic or no.

[omega minimo]

29. and not continue this discussion because it IS all about you and nothing I said

is of interest, common ground, relevance to YOU.

:hi:

"The soundtrack of that time is also the soundtrack of my own memories and many of my own magical journeys"


My posts and the one above potentially build bridges. You may feel the way you say in this OP. The previous one shows you are just as capable of hiding that and perpetuating the pointless generational battles. That's fine, people seem to enjoy that more here, than getting past it...

Hopefully you learned something from the threads and will not be so harsh about it in the future. There are connections, even if you don't want to discuss them with me.

Of course, if you cared about that and all your testifying in this OP, you would discuss it when offered, rather than focus on YOU!!!

:toast:

[RadiationTherapy]

33. Alllll through the dayyyyyy, I, me, mine, I, me, mine, I, me, mine.

I am doing some bridging and PR/image management. The OP is about how I feel and how I may be perceived; though my experience is that my message speaks for some others as well.

That's it.

[omega minimo]

44. Yes, the limited focus and inability to be flexible and go off script is a noted generational trait

[RadiationTherapy]

45. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I'm so scripted; so inflexible. My focus is so limited.

It's cool; I know what it is like to peck something out and post it in a huff.

[omega minimo]

46. Fail

:spray: :rofl: you had your chance.

[RadiationTherapy]

47. As I look back on our tete-a-tetes, OM, I am comfortable with how I expressed myself.

I am comfortable with what people reading the discussions will see.

[omega minimo]

48. You only see or listen to what is already in your head, you're stuck and can't perceive past it.

Or even acknowledge it when it's pointed out to you OR acknowledge that a discussion is different from a battle and you are stuck on being RIGHT so you're gonna get even MORE pompous about how RIGHT you are, INTENT on missing the POINTS!!! :rofl:


It's sad really. That is classic representation of the kind of miscommunication skills common these days, on DU and elsewhere.

Good luck with that. :toast:

[RadiationTherapy]

49. I appreciate that you feel that you have something to show or teach me.

Unfortunately your communication style and my anti-authoritarianism do not mix.

[omega minimo]

50. That's okay. You win. We lose. B/C your communication problems will be the downfall of us all

and the fact that you view my comments as triggering your "anti-authoritariansim" is more -- even more pathetic -- proof of how bad it really is.

I asked you some questions about what you think. If you see that as authoritarian -- god it's just pathetic!

Do you ever consider all the people who feel the way you do about those intervening years and where we are now, who are older than you?

Ever notice people questioning and commenting on it quite a bit?

Ever listen to the people who are between the two sparring generations?

Ever look at how the effects of that time DID survive into this one?


That is threatening or challenging or demanding or something? You can't handle just looking at questions and thinking about it? Grow UP. How self indulgent is that?! Holy shit. Are the cliches about younger generations actually true? :wow:


You are proving my point with ever retort. Best stop digging. :pals:

[RadiationTherapy]

51. You see that word 'pathetic' OM?

Just as in your other posts, you pretend to have something worthwhile to contribute, but it is all really just a little set up for a little jab. It's fine, I can take it. I just dislike fake shit like that.

Same as your other posts with the rolling around laughing emoticon that indicates you are looking down at me and laughing. Again, it's fine, I can take it. I just dislike fake shit like that.

As far as your 'point', which you pretend is about my self-centered nature and inflexibility, but is really, again, you trying to take poorly concealed shots at me (It's fine, I just dislike fake shit like that), is well taken and disregarded. As I explained, my post is about me and how I am perceived. I am not trying for more than that with this thread despite your repeated attempts to make the topic about something YOU wish it to be about all the while making silly comments attempting to belittle me, but actually, ironically, pertain to you.

It's all fine, OM, I just dislike fake shit like that.

[omega minimo]

52. Stop DIGGING!!!

This was no setup. I asked you those questions. You ignored them. There's not discussion. There's your script for the thread, for the issues, even for what you claim I'm doing, which I'm not, and it all supports and drives your stuckness in what you thought in the first place.

And yes, your self centeredness and pretend offendedness is pathetic. You are hiding behind it, using it as a shield to protect yourself from new ideas.

It's not just you that does this.

If you ever have the time and inclination, you might think about the questions I posed, as they relate to your OP and your more expansive POV than the previous Boombashing revealed.

"... despite your repeated attempts to make the topic about something YOU wish it to be about all the while making silly comments attempting to belittle me, but actually, ironically, pertain to you."

The questions were directly related to your OP and a potential discussion about the btoader topic, beyond "my post is about me and how I am perceived." That you still want to try to criticize me for that and object to being called on that narcissism and scripted behavior that is a cliche about Gen XYZ..... yep, still pathetic. :rofl:

[RadiationTherapy]

54. Ok. Here is your first post to me in this thread.

"And yet it's still all about YOU. You couldn't post this in your own thread this is relevant to?

This OP may be a heartfelt olive branch..... still, posted outside your thread, seems narcissistic as any Gen X or Boom whinging."

That is how you began a "discussion" with me. This is indicative of how you "attempt" to "discuss" many topics; and I have communication issues? Right. Your questions are poorly worded and uninteresting; just get to your point. What responses, had I actually understood what the fuck you were asking, could I possibly have given that would have generated any respect from you to me? None; so fuck off with the arrogant word-strutting and tell me how you really feel.

[omega minimo]

56. I already posted the first post's questions, you choose to ignore, nurse your faux ego slight,

self absorbed, scripted, inflexible, unwilling to face reality (how your posts sound narcissistic, which might concern you, if they weren't :think: ) CHECK.

Mission Accomplished. Self righteous hole DUG, NOTHING learned. :patriot:


"What responses, had I actually understood what the fuck you were asking, could I possibly have given that would have generated any respect from you to me?"

It seemed from your OP you had the potential to see the connection between the POV you presented here, the concerns about recent decades and the questions I posed.

Your hostility and stubborness......... standing in your own way.

"so fuck off with the arrogant word-strutting and tell me how you really feel."

[RadiationTherapy]

58. Yeah, it's cool. I don't know what it is, but I cannot understand what you are saying to me.

I am blocked.

[RadiationTherapy]

53. And here are your answers to your 'questions'.

Do you ever consider all the people who feel the way you do about those intervening years and where we are now, who are older than you? - Yes. Not sure what your point is.

Ever notice people questioning and commenting on it quite a bit? - Who questioning what now?

Ever listen to the people who are between the two sparring generations? Ummm...I - uh - think so?

Ever look at how the effects of that time DID survive into this one? Ok, I am just fucking around; your questions are senseless and I have no idea what you are talking about.

Color me pathetic, self-absorbed or whatever.

[Garbo 2004]

30. As you note, it was a subculture. It was a subset of a larger group but

not dominant, not in their generation, not in the culture as a whole. While there have been influences that continue today, why is anyone surprised that society didn't just change in a blink? If that's anyone's expectation, that's a heavy and unrealistic responsibility to place on a minority of folks in a generation 40 years ago. (And yes, real hippies were a small minority...wearing your hair long and listening to Jefferson Airplane didn't in itself make anyone a hippie.)

[Kajsa]

37. When I was born in 1951, segregation

was legal in some states.

If a woman/man, child or animal was beaten
and you knew about it/ saw it,
you were advised to " mind your own business".

Polluting the air/water/land was a common occurrence
with little/no legal consequences.

Disabled people were openly ridiculed and hidden from society
for the most part.

We ate crap food full of preservatives that we didn't know
much about.

The list goes on and on.

Sure, a lot of things we dreamed and aspired to didn't happen.

But a number of changes took place.

You just have to notice them.

[RadiationTherapy]

38. Thank you.

[Kajsa]

40. You're welcome!

:)

[dem629]

39. I don't mind being viewed that way.

These were people who were just as selfish as those seeking material goods. They just wanted other things at the time, but later grew up to be as materialistic as anyone.

They were just as preachy and moralistic as anyone else, showing no hesitation to tell others the "right" way to live. What's the difference between that and a religious moralist telling someone else how to live?

The Boomers as a generation really screwed up this society.

[RadiationTherapy]

55. How can we avoid falling into the same trap?

How do we look ahead and dynamically create a legacy to be proud of?

What did they miss?

[cali]

57. Spot on OP. I miss the domestic resurrection circus.

[RadiationTherapy]

60. Bread and Puppet was an extraordinary event. It certainly changed MY world.

[cali]

61. Mine too. I live just a few miles from the B&P farm and have many, many memories

going back almost 30 years of attending and participating.