Father helicoptered 9th grader to 1st day of school - getting negative web feedback

[Liberal_in_LA]

It's not illegal to helicopter your kid to school? Seems weird.

Dad rented a helicopter and then droped off the boy.

But he failed to alert the school officials, freaking them out when he landed the blue-and-white Hughes 300 helicopter about 7 a.m. Monday behind some portable classrooms, reports the Orlando Sentinel.

Sutherin, a registered pilot and father of three, told officials he had simply wanted to "make a positive impression on the other students."

http://weblogs.sun-sentinel.com/news/specials/weirdflorida/blog/2009/08/bart_sutherin_gets_big_points.html

Dad Flies Son To School In Helicopter

August 27, 2009
LAKE COUNTY, Fla. -- Lake County deputies say a father thought it would make a positive impression to students if he dropped off his child at school Monday morning by helicopter. Officers say Bart Southern rented a helicopter to take his son to school and landed it behind the portables at East Ridge High School (see map).

Deputies who were patrolling the student parking lot around 7:00am said that the helicopter was flying approximately 200 feet over the campus. Moments later they received a call from school officials over the radio wondering why the helicopter was landing behind the portables.

When officers were able to make contact with Bart Southern, they told him that there were very serious safety concerns about the incident. The FAA launched an investigation, but both federal investigators and the sheriff's office say it doesn't appear the pilot broke any laws.

"At this point, he just dropped his child off at the school. He just did it with a helicopter," said Cpl. Jim Vachon, Lake County Sheriff's Office.

http://www.wftv.com/irresistible/20568923/detail.html
----------------------------

"A simple flight to school has created hostile blogs thousands of miles from here," she wrote to me today. "We’ve been called 'ego maniacal and self absorbed' and we’ve been complimented on what a great relationship my husband and son must have. There were even death threats on a local Newschannel blog that I’m very thankful was pulled down. Death threats over a helicopter flight with a father and son?"

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_education_edblog/2009/08/helicopter-kids-family-has-been-overwhelmed-by-the-media.html

-------------------------

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. wtf

:rofl:

[KittyWampus]

22. WCPGW- what could possibly go wrong

[XanaDUer]

2. Well, they made an impression, all right.

nt.

[ShortnFiery]

7. Too funny! My teen makes me turn of C-SPAN before I drop her off.

Other teens hearing that "boring stuff" would be so embarrassing ... the end of life as we know it! ;)

[Stevenmarc]

3. Giving new meaning to "Helicopter parent"

[Z_I_Peevey]

20. !!

yes indeedy

[Critters2]

105. My thought exactly.

Some people are such literalists.

[Dorian Gray]

108. That's what I thought the article was about

before opening it.... a father who was so involved with his 9th grade son's life that he took him into school and his homeroom.

LMAO... I can't believe any father would think THIS was a good idea.

[ShortnFiery]

4. Reminds me of the RICH mom taking son to school in "a bitching Hummer"

Status Symbol to shove "lesser than" children's face in it ... in today's economy, where MANY people are hurting finacially, showing off your excesses can foment resentment.

Time to be low-key about your excess wealth RICH FOLK.

Duh. :eyes:

[Liberal_in_LA]

5. I had the same thought. Many of those kids he's trying to impress may be suffering due to recession

[Pangolin2]

14. I have a friend who hates rich people with a passion...and buys $10 worth of lottery tickets

twice a week hoping to become one.
:eyes:

[Ikonoklast]

99. That's the second time you've posted about 'hating rich people'.

Is that some sort of 'meme' you are trying out here?

Because I'll tell you one thing, most rich people want nothing to do with anyone else that isn't at least as wealthy as they are, and that includes YOU.

[Name removed]

107. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[uncle ray]

59. that would be "bitchin' hummer".

and it still is being used in the wrong context. a "bitchin' hummer" is something a young man would have received from a young lady in the backseat of a bitchin' Camaro in the 80's.

[comtec]

152. All 'hummers' are bitchin aren't they?

at least my mate seems to think so ;)

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. It seems pretty show-off-ish, but

I can't imagine why people would get so bent out of shape about it that they'd make death threats.

[Liberal_in_LA]

8. Yeah...the internet allows people to be anonymously extreme about everything

[Pangolin2]

10. It's no more ostentatious than people who rent limos and spend fortunes on prom garb

:shrug:
I'm sensing a lot of jealousy resulting from the story...

[Darth_Kitten]

55. Except the potential for some kind of accident...............

helicopters around children? hmmm.........I wouldn't chance it.

[Pangolin2]

67. Yeah, let's put a stop to those goddamn med-evac flights when kids are injured.

:eyes:

[haele]

74. Med-evac flights have people on the ground as safety observers -

Everyone knows that the 'copter is coming in because they called it in. In this case, no one knew the 'copter was coming in.
Big difference. It's not like in the movies, when people will automatically clear out a wide space for a helicopter to land - especially considering that there are all sorts of kids on the ground who might not be aware enough of the world around them to notice they might be in a blind spot of a pilot bringing a large, heavy machine with whirling rotors down in their vicinity.

Haele

[jmowreader]

113. He rented a Hughes 500...

The Hughes 500 doesn't have a tail rotor, and the main rotor's high enough up that if you came in for a normal, rational landing the rotor disc wouldn't be close to the kids' heads. Plus he landed it away from other people. This case is all about envy, very little about safety--the pilot seems to have been reasonably safety conscious. Obviously he was supposed to donate all the money he spent renting the helicopter to feeding hungry people. That's what we're all supposed to do with any extra coin we might have, right? Any money that will provide a standard of living above that Gandhi subscribed to is supposed to be donated to The Poor.

[Pangolin2]

115. It seems that buying a cheeseburger for a panhandler qualifies one for sainthood but

taking a helicopter ride means you're Satan personified. Gotta love the instant judgments around here.

[jmowreader]

121. Yeah, you'll notice that...we're a pretty eclectic bunch around here

Some of us subscribe to the Wiccan Rede--if it harms none, do what ye will. Others? Oh man, if you eat meat, wear animal-based clothing or burn more than a token amount of petroleum products in one day you're indescribably evil.

[Pangolin2]

123. Heh...tres verdad

ist gut.

Campai

:hi:

[MindPilot]

150. OMFG! A Cheeseburger! You trying to kill the guy?

You are clearly suggesting the overt and wanton abuse of a person of non-domicilism by offering them processed animal products and single-handedly destroying the planet by supporting factory farming! Obviously you are a troll!!11!

Gotta hand it to ya man, you've done a good job of keeping your cool and holding your own.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

73. Is it really?

Don't all the kids at least try to get limos to go to the f'ing prom nowadays? This is a different ballpark.

[Iggo]

81. Yeah, far as I know, a limo is the standard prom car.

[PSzymeczek]

127. I went to the 1971 prom

in my boyfriend's dad's 1964 Buick Wildcat (driven by my boyfriend's dad).

[Pangolin2]

84. Yeah, they spend a lot of money that could feed some hungry people.

The only difference is that the helicopter story is unusual and give some the opportunity to rant against something they didn't think of themselves. I say bah to them and good for the kid's dad who gave him a little special treat.

[Iggo]

100. The kid's dad is an idiot.

But the death threats are a little much.

[XemaSab]

96. Usually kids go in on a limo together

If a limo for the night costs $500 but it's split 10 ways, that's not exactly a massive display of wealth. :shrug:

[Iggo]

101. Exactly.

[Hippo_Tron]

118. A limo is just a nice looking taxicab that you rent for the whole night

Split between a bunch of people for one big night is not a huge display of wealth. Renting a helicopter and a pilot costs a fortune.

[Pangolin2]

125. So how many splitting the cost of a copter would make it okay?

Since the cost appears to be the major factor in determining how much of an asshole the dad actually is...

[Hippo_Tron]

129. There's more factors than just the cost

First of all, there's a difference between the first day of school and prom. Second of all there's a difference between the statement that a helicopter makes and that a limo makes. Again, these things are largely arbitrary. The idea that flaunting your wealth makes you an asshole is just a societal convention anyway. But if we are going by these societal conventions then I would say that there is a difference.

For the record, my best friend and I drove to prom in his dad's car. We didn't have enough friends to go in on a limo and quite frankly we had a good time getting lost on the way there.

[Pangolin2]

131. Well, I skipped the prom at my HS many years ago. It was WAY too soon to

try to take another guy as a date so I just said piss on it. Not that it's easy nowadays but in 1959 it would have likely created an incident involving ambulances and maybe the coroner.

Now my boyfriend of 28 1/2 years and I fly anywhere we want to go and rarely encounter any overt bigotry.
:-)

[MineralMan]

9. I swear to God I though turkeys could fly!

[rug]

11. Well damn, I thought buying them Skechers would be enough.

[trumad]

12. The dad flies helicopters---rents one---and treats his kid to a ride to school..

I think it is cool as shit---only thing he did wrong is not let school officials in on it.

[KittyWampus]

25. I'd think it'd be cooler to rent a helicopter for your kids birthday party and give free rides

with parents' permission, of course.

[NashVegas]

128. I Disagree. It's Intentional Dick-Waving.

Shoving in every kid's face what most of them can't have or can't afford to throw money away on. And, results show it created far more resentment than "positive impression."

[Pangolin2]

130. Dick-waving??

Wow. Is that what is going on every time someone spends more money than somebody else couldn't afford to?

How do you feel about President Obama riding around in Air Force One to the tune of around $80,000 per hour? (I don't mind at all, he's entitled...but is he the only one that has kind of cachet now?)

[Subdivisions]

13. If there is no law against taking your child to school in a helicopter, then

no big deal. I know if I was that kid, my dad would be my hero.

[donco6]

42. Well, landing on school property without permission can't be legal.

And it totally freaks out other parents. They think there's another Columbine going on whenever they see a flashing red light in the parking lot. I'm sure the school had a hell of a day fending off calls on that.

[Pangolin2]

68. What law do you think it breaks?

Hint: none

[Cosmocat]

75. This would not fly ...

I would bet good good money that a superintendent or solicitor would know legal reasons for this to not be permissable, but even if there was no exact law against him doing it, he darn well should have talked to school officials and asked ... It is too big of a thing or distraction to the school to not have the common sense to inform school officials ...

and he should have been told no ...

The personality issue aside, there is a precident issue. If he is allowed to bring his kid to school in a helecopter for for the first day of school, then he or anyone else should be able to bring their kid to school every day. Can you have 500 parents drop their kids off to school every day in a helecopter? that is what you are opening yourself to if you allow this.

And, if he can bring his kid to school in a helecopter, then people should be able to roll into school with their kids in a $400,000 farm tractor, or a 16 wheel truck, or a Sherman tank for matter ... Gee, no law against me parachuting my kid to school ...

Schools have paved roads leaing to it connected to roads - there are not helecopter pads or boat docks (unless there is). Pretty much leaves street legal vehicles or sneakers to get your kid to school.

[Pangolin2]

86. Well there sure as hell is a lot of outrage here for something that OUGHT to

be agin' the law (so they say.) Sometimes I'm ashamed to be in the party that has so many whining idiots in it.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pangolin2]

91. I wasn't the one doing the whining...I was responding to the whiners.

Not that you are one, of course.
\

[donco6]

95. More whining.

Really, we totally feel sorry for you, but enough is enough.

[Iggo]

102. .

;)

:rofl:

[Cosmocat]

112. It isn't outrage ...

it is simple commmon sense.

Nothing I said was person ... It is about maintaining order within a school system.

[Xithras]

94. Why not? It's legal to drive your car onto school grounds.

It seems to me that the only law or rule he may have broken would be parking a vehicle outside of a designated parking area. An citable infraction at most.

[donco6]

97. Not on the soccer fields it isn't.

And if you break one goddam sprinkler head, you're paying me back.

[ipaint]

15. What a horse's ass.

Still trying to impress the "cool" kids.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pangolin2]

19. +1

:D

[ipaint]

24. Sure, that "extra special" first day of school in the ninth grade

just had to be commemorated by dad in a big way. WTF.

How large an ego does one need to make the first day of a school full of kids all about his kid alone.

If he really wants to make an impression set up a day where he can take the helicopter to school and educate the kids about flying, safety and inspire them to educate themselves further.

This show off crap is just that.

[KittyWampus]

28. A Father's job isn't to be one of the "cool" kids. And that's why many kids are so fucked up today.

[ddeclue]

16. As long as the helicopter pilot had a commercial license

and the FBO had the right license and everybody follows the FAA rules regarding charter flights (part 121 or part 135) then everybody else needs to get the big ol' stick out of their butts.

There's no law against chartering a helicopter to take your kid to school - it's a bit over the top expense wise (even basic training helicopters rent for $250/hr training wise, I figure this flight probably cost several hundred dollars even for the few minutes from home to school) - but it wasn't illegal.

Doug D.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

21. They didn't need a 135 certificate; it isn't a charter

when the pilot rents the aircraft for his own use. It was a pretty simple deal. Expensive, yes; ostentatious, maybe. But totally legal. And helicopters can legally land anywhere as long as it's not private property and doesn't create a hazard.

[KittyWampus]

29. you don't think a helicopter on school grounds creates a hazard? What the fuck is wrong with people

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

32. Depends on how much space they had and whether there were people nearby.

Technically you can land a helicopter pretty much anywhere; whether there's an actual hazard depends on the circumstances. If they landed in the middle of a soccer field, for example, it wouldn't have been unsafe.

[omega minimo]

140. Technically, a parent with half a brain would think twice before a stunt like that.

Then he'd think -- oh, the school won't let me so I won't ASK. :freak:

[ddeclue]

35. NO - as long as the guy didn't land it in the middle of a crowd.

if he landed it on a ball field - BIG. DEAL. it's not a problem.

[ddeclue]

36. NO - as long as the guy didn't land it in the middle of a crowd.

if he landed it on a ball field - BIG. DEAL. it's not a problem.

[Darth_Kitten]

56. Yeah, but what if he did...........whoops, sorry about your kid.......

n/t

[MindPilot]

41. What hazard? Kicks up some dust? Blows litter around?

[Hippo_Tron]

119. We had a helicopter land on the football field once, but it was planned

One of our teachers was in the national guard and they have to fly a certain amount of hours anyway, so he had his buddies fly it over to the school and land it on the field. It was pretty cool to watch and didn't seem unsafe, although I guess that was because there were trained military people flying it.

[ddeclue]

33. I'm a pilot so perhaps I misunderstood...

was the dad himself the pilot or did he hire a pilot?

If he's a pilot then yes it could be a part 91 operation and he could have simply rented the helicopter.

If it's a public school and he was simply dropping his kid off for school, I don't think anyone could complain about "trespass" unless he was specifically told in advance not to do this.

I remember when I was in college there used to be some guy who would land his Hughes 500 on school grounds to go to school. I'm assuming he was ridiculously rich.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

38. I inferred from the article that the guy rented it himself.

If so, no charter. Otherwise, they (the FBO) would have to have a 135 certificate.

[donco6]

53. Just because a school is "public" doesn't mean you can do whatever you want.

You have to get permission to use anything on the property. Even the city has an intergovernmental agreement to use our fields. But this jackass can land a helicopter anytime he wants? No chance.

[Xithras]

98. You have it backwards.

Under American law, activities on public property are inherently permissible unless there's a specific law or rule against it. The legal presumption is that public resources are owned by the people and are therefore available for their use. Restrictions on that openness must be specific and approved ahead of time in a public hearing.

Did you know it's illegal to hang glide in Yosemite? For safety reasons, the NPS banned hang gliders back in the 70's to protect the public. When the first BASE jumpers started hurling themselvess off of Yosemite's cliffs in the 80's, the NPS tried to have them prosecuted under the no hang-gliding rules. Didn't work. The rules banned one activity, but not another, so the first BASE jumpers were freed without punishment. Because the offense happened on public property and there was no specific rule against it, the activity was legal...even if it was unsafe. The NPS quickly modified their rules to ban BASE jumping, and trying it today will get you a fat ticket or jailtime. Same concept applies here.

Something tells me that this school board will have an item regarding helicopter landings on its next agenda.

[Lorien]

62. Pretty common thing here in Florida

I've seen helicopters landing in all kinds of places here. They also fly REALLY low over the freeways sometimes, which seems even more hazardous. It's a common enough thing down here that I'd hardly look twice if a helicopter were landing on Public school property. I'd just figure that it belonged to one of the local news teams or something (they land their helicopters all over the place). if there weren't any kids within 100 yards of the area they landed then I wouldn't see what the fuss was about.

[Stephanie]

23. And can you just land it anywhere you like?

[Statistical]

39. Not on private property without permission (unless it is an emergency).

[Euromutt]

26. What about safety during landing, though?

I mean, my knowledge about helicopter procedures stems from my time in the Dutch army, and may not be applicable here, but you couldn't just land a helicopter wherever you wanted. You either had to put down on a permanent landing pad (with an "H" in a circle painted on the ground and a windsock and what have you), or you needed to have a marshaller on the ground (and preferably some guys to keep people from wandering onto the LZ).

[KittyWampus]

27. you think it's legal to land your personal helicopter on school grounds with no notification?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

30. As far as the FAA is concerned, yes.

But if you land your helicopter on private property without permission you are probably violating some trespassing ordinances.

[KittyWampus]

31. Velveteen, this doesn't just involve the FAA. It involves the School, kids, parents, teachers

and surrounding houses.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

34. Of course. But the question was whether it was illegal.

My point is that there probably were no FAA regulation violations. It doesn't look like the guy was charged with any other violations, either. According to the newspaper article he landed it in a cleared area behind the school where there weren't any students.

[donco6]

44. Even our police drill folks get permission to land on our grounds.

This just can't be OK.

[ddeclue]

45. YES it CAN.. There are NO laws against it.

Stop your whining...

:eyes:

[Name removed]

50. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donco6]

54. Maybe you need a refresher course.

"Can I land the helicopter anywhere I want to?"

Almost anywhere, with some common-sense and legal limitations. The FAA is most concerned about safety. They prohibit landing on any area where your landing would represent a "hazard" to persons or property on the ground. However, if you have a property owner's permission, the area is safe and there are no local ordinances against landing, you may land most anywhere.

He landed on the campus without permission, in a place commonly traversed by kids.

He's an idiot.

[ddeclue]

148. Distortion of the facts...

he landed on a soccer field AWAY from people EARLY in the morning.

:eyes:

Concern trolls abound...

[Hannah Bell]

76. if i drive my pickup onto the school fields, i'll get some flak & possibly a visit from the local

police.

it may not be formally "illegal" to land a helicopter there for frivolous reasons, but it shows a serious lack of judgement to do so without notice or pre-approval.

[ddeclue]

37. Umm NO it doesn't..

As long as it was a public place there really aren't any laws about landing off airport that would apply.

Doug D.

[haele]

71. Jeeze - so landing without notice in a city parking lot -

Without safety spotters is okay with you?
Emergency landings, there's not much you can do if you have to come down in a quiet suburban intersection, but my understanding - from having to support "public landings" for a USO event - that you have to make preparations to insure that the Landing Zone - LZ - is clear.

Daddy just dropping down on a High School soccer field without notice does not insure that the LZ is clear of some idiot teen with more hair than sense deciding at that moment to dart across the field to get closer to the helicopter as it's coming down and taking his or her head off because Daddy can't see the kid coming up behind the tail rotor...
Or Daddy didn't compensate properly for wind and clipped a bleacher or light pole, causing a disastrous crash similar to the Twilight Zone movie accident that killed that actor and kids.

As for FAA ordinances - they aren't the only authority. Local Public Safety ordinance regulations usually require some sort of permission to set up an LZ at any public area before someone can just "drop in" using a helicopter.

Haele

[Pangolin2]

90. You probably should not opine on matters you obviously know nothing about.

Local ordinances cannot preempt the FAA. Maybe you think that should be the case but giving localities the power to override federal laws would be a recipe for chaos and bedlam and no sensible person would support such an idiotic idea.

[donco6]

93. Interagency Helicopter Operations Guide, NIFC

Public Ownership. If the land is owned by a federal, state, or local land
management agency, the Helibase Manager must still coordinate with the owning
agency’s Resource Advisor to determine if use of the site is appropriate, and any
mitigation measures that must be taken.

If the site is owned by a local municipality, contact the local manager or public
official.



This would have been the appropriate procedure to follow.

[Ikonoklast]

103. Many cities have ordinances that prohibit aircraft from landing anywhere except

an airport or other designated aircraft landing site (such as a helipad at a hospital, etc.) except in an emergency.

You are talking out of your ass. The FAA has no control over local laws prohibiting where an aircraft may land.

There are city, county, state and other federal regulations that often prohibit aircraft from landing most places except in an emergency. In effect, there aren't too many places you can legally land other than at an airport or on private land (with the owner's permission), or on some (but not all) bodies of water if you happen to be flying a floatplane.

[haele]

109. You probably don't know about how regulatory agencies interact

Your statement seems to indicate your knowledge comes from book-learning rather than actual experience.
Look, The FAA is concerned with a creating a baseline regulation for all aircraft in US Federal airspace, just as the FCC and any other federal agency - including OSHA, EPA, DoD, DoT, etc, etc...
However, after the Federal regulatory agencies authority is satisfied, then the operator has to operate within the regulations outlined by the State, County, Municipal ordinances in the area of operation. My employers have often had to pay all sorts of fines, and one ended up losing a contract because even though they "followed" the federal regulations, they did not follow the local regulations.

FAA is "pre-empted" by local ordinances all the time - Local entities have noise abatement rules that shut down operations for specified aircraft during certain times or over certain areas. Other local areas have specific rules for types of landing areas.

Both the 9th and 10th amendments of the US are written such that to allow states and municipalities are allowed to add to federal regulation and law; they just can't relax federal law or regulations.

There's absolutely no reason why any sensible person would disagree with the ability for a municipality to determine what would be best for a community and add local Public Safety ordinance requirements to the Federal agency regulations concerning any operation or situation that could cause concern. Indeed, it would be chaos if a community could not decide they would want to protect their environment against a situation that might not affect another community, even should they be within the same State.


Haele

[Pangolin2]

116. There have been thousands of instances where localities attempted to regulate interstate air commerc

in opposition to FAA rules (which are laws, published in the Federal Register.) I've been a commercial pilot for 47 years and I do know a little about the subject. Here is just one recent example:
http://www.nbaa.org/ops/airports/smo/FAA-2003-15807-0066.pdf

[Hannah Bell]

78. bullshit.

[Pangolin2]

88. Are you an expert on bullshit?

Sure looks that way.

[Hannah Bell]

92. t-------g

[MajorChode]

145. Tell that to David Martz

Pilot David Martz was actually charged with reckless operation of an aircraft in 2006 after landing his bird in a residential neighborhood in the Hollywood Hills. The pilot picked up Tommy Lee and two other passengers and they went to a Nine Inch Nails concert in Orange County.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/tag/David+Martz/#ixzz0PiXBgxQ5

[MajorChode]

120. As far as the FAA is concerned, no

I'm sure the pilot already has an appointment with the local Flight Standards District Office and he will most likely get an enforcement action for careless or reckless operation. He might be able to get a lawyer and fight it, but the FAA prevails in the vast majority of cases.

Most states have laws regarding helicopter ops also.

[Pangolin2]

122. You seem to have some specific FAR in mind to make such a prediction.

Would you care to cite it?

[MajorChode]

124. I already have.

Read my message a little closer next time.

Cheers!

[Pangolin2]

126. I see a reference to careless operation but no FAR cite.

I'll settle for one from part 91

edit: here, I'll help you out: 91:13
quote:
Sec. 91.13

Careless or reckless operation.

(a) Aircraft operations for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.
(b) Aircraft operations other than for the purpose of air navigation. No person may operate an aircraft, other than for the purpose of air navigation, on any part of the surface of an airport used by aircraft for air commerce (including areas used by those aircraft for receiving or discharging persons or cargo), in a careless or reckless manner so as to endanger the life or property of another.

Now you will need to explain how what he did violates this in either spirit or letter.
:D

[MajorChode]

136. Let's get something straight

The title of 91.13 was mentioned verbatim in my message. Any student pilot would have been able to figure that one out without a "cite" let alone someone who claims to own a "Cessna 310". I assure you I actually am a pilot and an aircraft owner, so I hardly need your help in that regard. Thanks, but no thanks. So the most obvious reasons I can see for you needing a "cite" is either you are completely full of shit and are nothing more than a wannabe pilot, or you're simply playing dumb in a failed effort to appear clever.

As far as an explanation goes, try David Martz (and no I'm not going to give you a "cite" for that one either). The FAA can violate you on 91.13 almost without cause even without media attention. Anyone who has been a pilot for any length of time has either been violated themselves by 91.13, or knows someone who has. The standards for a certificate enforcement action are NOT the same as in a criminal case. If the FAA wants to make a case against you, they will make a case against you, and if the media is involved, the chances of that are pretty good as it won't just be up to the lower level FSDO investigators. All they have to say is you landed in an area for no good reason that's very heavily congested with dozens if not hundreds of pedestrians (let alone kids), any one of which could have ran up and gotten injured. The chances of a NTSB ALJ bucking that one are slim and none. Do I think it's bullshit? Maybe. But I'm not making a judgment call, only a prediction. My personal judgment is that someone fucking stupid enough to try a stunt like that and doesn't think they are going to invite a shitstorm, is too fucking stupid to fly a radio controlled helicopter, much less a real one. Just because you have the skills to fly, doesn't mean you have the brains.

[Pangolin2]

137. You exhibit the same traits that most pilots I've known...arrogance and behavior

that a Republican would envy.

You absolutely made a value judgment and in the same paragraph denied doing so. Whose side are you on here, a guy who did something that is ABSOLUTELY NOT ILLEGAL or the one that says he's an asshole for parading his skills and/or money?

I've dealt with FSDOs and GADOs for over 40 years and with very few exceptions, I mean VERY few, they're pretty fucking accommodating and do not go out of their way to fuck with pilots for petit (petty) reasons.

By the way, your NTSB reference shows me you're full of shit yourself. They have no jurisdiction in this kind of "case."

[MajorChode]

138. Pot/Kettle

You exhibit the traits of someone who can dish it out, but can't take it. Welcome to DU. Now grow the fuck up.

Who you think you've dealt with over the years adds up to a bucket of warm spit. As I said, once the media gets the story, it really doesn't mater what the local FSDO rank and file thinks. I've already given you the name of David Martz. You can either figure out how to use google, or remain ignorant. Your choice. Among other stupid shit, he was violated for almost the exact same stunt in 2006 after he landed in a residential area. It's not a matter of whose "side" I'm on, it's a matter of actually knowing what the fuck I'm posting about in contrast to someone who waves his bare ass of ignorance for all to see.

"no jurisdiction"??? WTF are you talking about? And you claim to have dealt with FSDOs for "over 40 years". My ass you have.

The NTSB is the first level of appeal to a FAA enforcement action. Just exactly how can someone who claims to have "dealt with FSDOs" over 40 years not know that?

Previously I only suspected you were a poseur. Now I'm certain of it. Damn certain.

[Pangolin2]

141. Jeezus fuckingchrist I can't even believe you would say something that totally WRONG

And you accuse ME of being a 'poseur'???????????

http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/faasanction.html#Heading6


edit: okay now I see the David Martz reference...I disagree with his being sanctioned (I joined the Mile High club about 40 years ago) but he could be said to have engaged in some activity that actually WAS potentially dangerous. I mean I can see the rationale there without agreeing with the punishment. The guy with the chopper at his kid's school didn't endanger or even threaten anyone.

[MajorChode]

144. Try explaining how it's "WRONG". I double dog dare you!

You're getting in pretty deep here. You do realize that, right? Obviously you just did a google search on "FAA enforcement action" and now you're an expert? The web site you posted doesn't mention who you file an appeal with. So just what the fuck do you think that proves exactly?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Yes, I'm accusing you of being a poseur, and you just proved it even more.

Now here's the appeal procedure straight from the NTSB web site:
http://www.ntsb.gov/alj/process.htm

Now, are you still going to maintain that you AREN'T a poseur, poseur?

I hope so. Soon there won't be a dry eye in the house!

[MajorChode]

147. Even after your edit, you STILL fail!

David Martz was disciplined by the FAA in 2006 for picking up Tommy Lee in a residential area (didn't I already say that?). He got violated (in more ways than one) for the blowjob incident also, but that was not what I was referring.

What you fail over and over to understand is it really doesn't matter what you think or what I think. It's what the FAA thinks, and there's already a clear pattern about how they think about such things. If they want to violate the dipshit pilot in question, they will, and there's already precedent for them doing so.

P.S.
Joining the "Mile High club" solo doesn't count. Sorry to break the news to you.

[tularetom]

18. When I was in the 9th grade there wasn't much my father could do that would impress me as cool

But flying me to school in a helicopter would have definitely done the job,

[MindPilot]

40. When I was in 9th grade my uncle took me to school on his motorcycle

He had one of those big touring bikes -- I don't even remember what make, but he was passing through town and spent one night. Rode me to school on his way out the next morning.

My god, I didn't even make it to my first class before being summoned to the principals office. My parents were called. Only after my dad explained that no I had not become an outlaw, and yes the motorcycle was owned and operated by an upstanding god-fearing citizen who was in fact a family member, and no, I would never again sully the image of the parish again by appearing at school on that heathen piece of machinery was I allowed back in class.

A chopper landing would probably have sent all the nuns into street to await the rapture.

[A HERETIC I AM]

57. I had to chuckle at your post. I used to own a Harley and took one of my nephews to school on it

once. I was (or tried to be) the "cool uncle".

I had a '92 Vette for a time and took them to school in that as well. My oldest brother has 3 sons and on occasions when I was visiting from up north (I lived in Detroit when I first bought the Vette) I would rotate between the 3 boys, dropping them at school on alternate mornings.

Public school though, so there weren't any Nuns to offend!

[T Wolf]

43. You cannot take fucking pointed scissors onto school grounds without being expelled

and this "adult" flies over and onto the campus DURING SCHOOL HOURS with whirling blades over ten feet long and people think there is nothing wrong!?!?!?

Whatever his motivations were, it was plain stupid from any analysis perspective.

[ddeclue]

46. "Concern" trolls everywhere..GET A LIFE and STOP complaining about other people having one!

:argh:

[rfranklin]

48. This guy was an asshole and you are his support team it seems...

It is so self-centered and arrogant to pull a stunt like this.

[Name removed]

49. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darth_Kitten]

85. Maybe you need to relax a bit......

everybody is entitled to their opinion.

[Pangolin2]

69. So you say but you haven't justified the accusation. Is it because it cost a fair amount of money?

Or is it something else...

[Darth_Kitten]

58. Yeah, well with what happens in schools nowadays, but not be concerned?

Geez........the problem with this world is that everybody thinks they can do whatever they want whenever they want.
Yes, doesn't matter if it interferes with other people, of course, they are just sticks in the mud. :eyes:

[Pangolin2]

70. Seems 'progressive' ain't what it usta be

:eyes:

[Hannah Bell]

79. now *that's* funny.

[MajorChode]

153. I'm sure he's still scratching his head trying to figure out why

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

47. Actually, it was at 7:00 a.m., before school started,

and he landed in an open field behind the school. But don't let the facts get in the way of your outrage.

[donco6]

51. Here's some facts for you.

The school principal, David Cunningham, requested that an investigation be launched to find out if there was an emergency. Deputies contacted the FAA, which said the chopper had been rented by Southern.

According to the Lake County sheriff's report, Southern admitted that he landed the helicopter on the campus.

http://www.clickorlando.com/education/20568523/detail.html

"on the campus"

Just so you're clear.

[chrisa]

52. People can be so dumb.

Yes, it's a little weird to helicopter someone to school, but who cares? I can picture idiot talkingheads on TV calling the dad an elitist, or talking about the dangers of what he did, and how they should be punished. People sending them death threats need to get a life.

[Taitertots]

60. And they complain about being taxed for single payer

This is America. The ultra wealthy fly children to school, while everyone else dies without health care.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

65. it might just be that i'm blind or stupid

but what in the blazes do those two things have to do with each other?

[Taitertots]

87. Why do you think people are upset?

All the efforts of the masses go to prop up ultra wealthy slave drivers. They say we can't afford single payer, while flying their children to school in helicopters.

[Beaverhausen]

61. Anyone recall how Senator John Heinz died?

It seems to be a matter of simple common sense to at least alert the school as to what you are doing.

[Mz Pip]

63. takes 'showing off' to a new level

Positive impression, my ass. He wanted the other kids to be envious, impressed, in awe of him and his kid. That's hardly positive.

Granted the death threats against these people is way over the top but calling this "a simple flight to school" only works if you are living out in the Yukon somewhere.

I feel sorry for the kid because it's obvious his parental influences are arrogant show offs. High school wil not be an easy ride for him.

[BlooInBloo]

64. "High school wil not be an easy ride for him." - Yes, it will.

[haele]

66. Way to guarantee that kid will be miserable-

Unless half the student body there get regular shopping "junkets" to New York in Mommy or Daddy's Lear jet, that first "impression" at High School will paint a huge target on him from all the kids who can't be flown to school in a helicopter.
Dude should have made arrangements to stay there all day and give rides to the other kids who wanted one, then made sure he was a major player in the PTA and fund raisers. Like other involved parents who take time out to help with "Stop-gap" volunteer activities like assistant coach, after-school activity/counseling facilitators, music or art mentors, and tutors at their kid's schools, if he wanted to be the cool dad, he could have bought some lab experiment equipment for the science lab or helped the history teacher with developing a cool diorama construction project...

As my Kindergarten Teacher taught us -
"You don't bring gum to school without bringing enough for everyone."

Haele

[AngryAmish]

72. Ahem, this is Florida people

stupid is as stupid does

[Tommy_Carcetti]

77. Says the resident of Blagoviech land.

:eyes:

[Quantess]

80. The father is projecting his own inferiority/superiority complex onto his son

To be fair, I'm sure he just wanted his son to look "cool", but it backfired and made him a spectacle.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

82. I'd just be embarassed.......

....but maybe that's me.......

[Forkboy]

83. No, it's not just you.

How to single out your child for torment in one easy step.

[wickerwoman]

146. I'd be mortified...

what 14 year old wants to be made the center of attention this way? Unless he's as big an attention-whore as his dad is...

[MindPilot]

104. Why the assumption that anyone who flies is wealthy?

The are quite a few pilots right here on DU. Some even own aircraft. I seriously doubt if any of us would consider ourselves wealthy.

In this case Dad (who likely wouldn't be sending his son to public school if he were rich) rented the helicopter--a few hundred bucks--to make an important day in a kid's life all the more special. Can't we give the guy some credit for that?


And as far as singling the kid out for torment, yeah there will be the envious bully assholes, but they will be envious bully assholes no matter what. On the other hand it's a conversation starter and the kid will probably meet some other kids, get respect from the older kids, (and girls, especially girls!) and make some new friends. And who knows, there are a few kids at that school who never thought of a career in aviation until they met the guy whose dad pilots a helicopter.

[Geek_Girl]

106. If I was a teen and my first day of Hight school I think it would have been cool

Though I really do believe landing a helicopter on school property without giving notice to the school is dangerous. I wouldn't be surprised if the law changed in Lake City Fl that would prohibit this kind of thing in the future.

[Regret My New Name]

155. Then in a 100 years...

people will be looking at the "no landing helicopters on public school property" like we look at the "no having sex with your wife/husband with a live chicken in the room and the lights on" sort of laws.

[Raine]

110. How stupid can someone be

I would've died if my father had done that with me when I was in 9th grade. :blush:

[ipaint]

111. A lesson in the value of personal character

achieved via having access to the best toys money can buy and letting everyone know it.

When they start celebrating the "positive impression" of kids who walk to school on the first day of ninth grade because mom and dad work two low paying jobs to make ends meet and there is no car available to get to school in let me know. I won't hold my breath.

[Gin]

114. this statement makes him sound like "HE" was the first grader

Sutherin, a registered pilot and father of three, told officials he had simply wanted to "make a positive impression on the other students."

[ipaint]

143. I know.

I'm not sure what is so special about the first day of school in the ninth grade but then again I took the bus across town to go to my first day of school in the first grade. My parents let me get over my fear and deal with it on my own.
Parents who feel the need to live vicariously through their teenage children aren't doing them any favors. Respect is earned not bought by daddy with shiny objects and expensive toys. That's cheap advertising.

[ShortnFiery]

117. Good! nt.

[Joanie Baloney]

132. I hope the dad is available Monday

I want to hire him and his chopper for my ride in to work tomorrow. I think it'd be beyond awesome!!!

+ Rec for the dad.





:applause:

-JB

[brettdale]

133. Is the school a rich or poor school?

If the school the kids go to is in a poor area, its in bad taste.

[Pangolin2]

134. He might not have a commercial license in which case he can't charge you to do that

but it's legal if you split the cost of fuel with him.
:D

:D
(I'm serious)

[and-justice-for-all]

135. What a dumb ass..nt

[omega minimo]

139. "Hey, there's the kid with the dad who's an IDIOT!!"

:bounce:

[Lagomorph]

142. After getting out of the Army...

I thought helicopters were a great way to get around.

If I could have afforded it, I would have got one.

I would have used it everywhere I legally could.

Since oil as become "non-grata", not so much.

The Hughes 300 has a small footprint, as far as helicopters go.

[Dappleganger]

149. Ok, what Dad did was pretty damn stupid.

My kids would have been extremely embarrassed if we had ever tried to pull this off. What the father did was try to SHOW OFF what HE thought the kid would want and live through his son vicariously. We live in FL and in an area where parents are constantly trying to 'one-up' the other for how much they give/do for their kids all for the sake of keeping up or staying ahead of the Joneses. That father could have used that money to donate towards a needy family and taught his son a far more valuable lesson than waste it on being a damn showoff.

[Bucky]

151. It's legal to helicopter your kid to school. It's not legal to land an aircraft on school grounds

Cool idea. Dumbass dad.

[Regret My New Name]

154. poorly thought out, me thinks...

I bet they wish they didn't do it now....