I feel that I must say this...

[kentuck]

Most folks in SE Kentucky believe just as strong as you do that this was a horrific crime. They are deeply distubed, as are you, by the facts that we have heard so far. They want the scum captured that did this disgraceful and sickening deed.

Please do not stereotype these people because of a few deranged killers. It could happen anywhere. The people in Clay County, Leslie County, Knox County, Harlan County, and Bell County are my people. I know them to be a good and generous people, and perhaps, the most independent Americans in this country? In my opinion, they are unique.

[obliviously]

1. What are you talking about?

[Liberal_in_LA]

40. probably about that census worker that was found hanging????

[Lex]

63. apt screen name

[obliviously]

68. Thank you.

[BrklynLiberal]

2. ....

:thumbsup:

[YOY]

3. Do we know anything more specific?

Last I checked it could have been some crazy drug deal gone sour and he got caught in it. Meth or (laughable but I know the ends they will go to protect it) marijuana was a possiblity. Nothing was really set.

It could have been a lot of things...including the stupids going too far and killing an innocent man.

[DearAbby]

4. K&R

[Parker CA]

5. Thanks for this post! I agree, there are sick / crazy people everywhere, it's not region specific.

[Creena]

6. You and your peeps stay safe.

:hug:

A geographic area does not denote a specific political leaning. I need to remind myself of that sometimes. Not specifically with this situation, but in general.

[spanone]

7. i'm with you ky

r

[scheming daemons]

8. "It could happen anywhere".... bullshit

This kind of thing happens in rural settings. In urban and suburban settings, people aren't concerned about census workers.


This kind of thing happens in conservative areas. In liberal and moderate areas, people aren't concerned about census workers.



It could happen in lots of places... but to say "it could happen anywhere" is a lie.


90%+ of this kind of thing happens in the South or Southwest.

90%+ of this kind of thing happens in a rural area.

90%+ of this kind of thing happens in a Republican county.

90%+ of this kind of thing is done by a white person.


Happen anywhere?

Nope

[spanone]

10. sprinkle some facts & links in there and you may have a case...

[MadHound]

13. Bull fucking shit

You're spewing stats, give some links to back your happy ass up with. I personally know of a lynching that happened in a city of nearly 200,000. Hell, Harvey Milk was shot in San Fran. Some of the Klan's most active areas are *gasp* north of the Mason-Dixon line.

This can, and has happened anywhere, so stop trying to vilify regions and areas that you happened to be personally biased against. Your own prejudice is showing.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

15. Interactive map of US hate groups...

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/map/hate.jsp

[Creena]

17. Whoa.

I didn't realize the Institute for Historical Review is so close. Lovely.

[charlie]

25. Texas, representin'!

Don't worry, Kentuck, the Lone Star state has got your back. You've got to turn the crazy up to 11 to out-do us!

[kentuck]

28. Thank God for Texas !

That's all I got to say. :-)

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

52. California has your back too,

[Hekate]

26. My own "liberal" state of California has 84! No need to single out Kentucky, is there? nt

[imdjh]

56. Where are the most people robbed, raped, beaten, and killed? You can ballpark it. nt

[imdjh]

57. Where are the most people robbed, raped, beaten, and killed? You can ballpark it. nt

[d_b]

61. AK REPRESENT!

[Libertas1776]

18. In many inner urban settings

people aren't concerned about census workers...because they don't often show up.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

21. Really?

So horrific crimes only happen in the places you've specified? You even know the political affiliation of the areas, and the race of the perpetrators.

You know, too, even though nothing has been made public affirming this, that it was a crime committed by anti-government people who listened to people like Glenn Beck.

And you've got the stats - oddly, all of them 90%.

Am I glad I live outside those places, because now I know that there's only a 10% chance of any murders happening here!!!

Thanks for the cheering up.

Now, I'd LOVE to know where you got this information.

I think I know, though.

Does your ass hurt?

[truedelphi]

34. Yeah, like when I tune in to the closest large metro area

And see all the murders committed in just one 24 hour period, I get so scared about living here in my rural area.

People shot and killed in drive bys. People killed because of road rage. People killed because they swiped someone's parking spot.

I'll take my chances here in the country, even though it means I can't jog due to the habits of the cougars.

[proteus_lives]

38. Please provide links.

Or admit you're full of shit.

[fujiyama]

39. You may not know this, but a lot of violent crime takes place in urban areas

They just don't get press because conditions in those places are that bad. Many census workers would be scared shitless canvassing some of those neighborhoods. Sure they may not be lynched and have "FED" written on them, but they still may end up beaten, and robbed, and depending on the racial/ethnic makeup of the neighborhood, they may have racial epithets thrown their way too.

Sure, the anti-government paranoia is very much a white rural phenomena in this country, but violence can take place anywhere.

[bitchkitty]

48. 90%+?

Do you have any statistics to back that up?

[bvar22]

49. You should get out more.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x6634437

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

51. So a government employee is only at risk in the South? That's just ignorant.

[imdjh]

59. Yes. Being a Border Patrol Agent in California is much safer than a Census job in Alabama.

Didn't you know?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

62. Learn something new every day.

[imdjh]

71. Most dangerous jobs

The 10 most dangerous jobs
Occupation Fatalities per 100,000
Timber cutters 117.8
Fishers 71.1
Pilots and navigators 69.8
Structural metal workers 58.2
Drivers-sales workers 37.9
Roofers 37
Electrical power installers 32.5
Farm occupations 28
Construction laborers 27.7
Truck drivers 25

I"m really surprised that Convenience Store Clerk isn't in the top ten, with thirtysome thousand of them being shot every year, but I guess it's in the methodology. If you did a list of "Most Shot Workers" then the c store guys would probably get the recognition they deserve.

[imdjh]

55. You're right. In urban areas people are murdered for better reasons. nt

[newtothegame]

60. You are a racist. Plain and simple.

"90%+ of this kind of thing is done by a white person." Just like the experts that told us that the DC sniper shootings would be some right-wing, racist white hick? Man, your law enforcement resume must be long and stellar. You make this too easy.

[Tim01]

72. "90%+ of this kind of thing is done by a white person."

Those darned violent whites again.

Wow.

[cwydro]

73. There is another thread up right now about a racist hate crime

in Minnesota.

Happens everywhere.

[ThoughtCriminal]

9. Agree

There are many areas from coast-to-coast where this work is dangerous. Some have more per acre and others more per capita. In our Census area, the biggest problems are in remote rural areas, but there are certainly urban neighborhoods where it takes guts to go door to door.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

11. I live in Seattle, often

thought of as a liberal haven, Yet, our state has a growing number of militia groups and few miles on the outskirts it's fair share of meth labs, poverty, signs spewing hate.
Just want you to know I don't believe this is more likely to happen in KY. than any where else in the country.

[Mrs. Overall]

50. Yes.

A live in a rural area across the Sound from Seattle and sometimes it's scary--fundamentalists, survivalists, meth makers, big trucks flying confederate flags--yep, scary.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. And I am with you

it was either one sick puppy or a few sick puppies, and I want then caught, charged, indicted and prosecuted. If the evidence is there, convicted... that is the way the system works.

[Lagomorph]

14. Stay in town!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUS6nKpddec&feature=player_embedded

[tularetom]

16. Some DU'ers have earned an Olympic medal for jumping to conclusions

If you believe some of the posts here lately:

The guy was murdered by some evil backwoods redneck glen beck supporter and had the word "fed" scrawled across his chest because of the generalized intense hatred of the federal
government ginned up by people like beck. Or it was a big right wing conspiracy and the corrupt local cops are right in the middle of it.

The only thing I know for sure is that Mr Sparkman is dead, that according to the coroner's report he died of asphyxia. If the stories about his hands being bound with duct tape and his census taker badge being taped to his neck it would appear that although suicide has not been officially ruled out, he did not take his own life.

But even if someone else did him in, there are a lot of motives besides hatred of all federal employees. There is obviously a lot of shit going down in those woods that people don't want anybody to know about, particularly federal employees. Weed, meth and booze are commonly produced in remote areas all over this country. The guys producing this stuff would generally be hostile to anybody with the government who came around and if they suspected he was some sort of federal narc, who knows what might happen?

On the other hand it might actually BE a murder motivated by rage against the federal government whipped up by irresponsible right wing radio pukers.


My point is nobody knows so why don't we all just chill out until some more facts are revealed.

[kentuck]

19. You are right that nobody knows all the facts.

I will be surprised if this murder was committed by folks that listened to Glen Beck or Michelle Bachman or talk radio. I think it is much more personalized and local than that. I simply cannot believe otherwise at this time. I think what we have witnessed is the result of a long feud between the DEA and the marijuana growers of the area. Mr Sparkman simply came upon the wrong place at the wrong time, in my opinion. I may be wrong but I tend to think of it as a more random crime than anything else. I would not be surprised to see one or two people surrender to authorities in the next few days. However, the culprits will be those that bribed or threatened the weaker accomplices into admitting they did the crime. I will be surprised if it is more than that.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. It was a lynching

now whether it is DEA vs local meth or bigger (and for the record I hope it is DEA vs meth), well we will find as soon as they finish shaking them trees.

Oh and I agree with you, I doubt Bachman and her rants are part of this... or fer that matter dear Glenny.

That said, it could be something similar...

[kentuck]

24. Behind this gruesome murder...

..there could be a small regional rebellion of sorts. Meth usually leads to murder, sooner or later.

[Creena]

27. It's hard to get straight information right now.

Is meth a bad problem in that area? That shit is dangerous. Funny you mention that meth leads to murder, because I just mentioned my cousin to nadin. The dumb fuck was either killed by his meth buddies or his Aryan buddies, or possibly one in the same.

[kentuck]

30. There is a terrible drug epidemic in this area.

There are meth labs everywhere. People are desperate and strung out. They need help. Drugs are the underground economy. Drugs are the economy.

[Creena]

32. Wow, I had no idea.

I knew that parts of Missouri are inundated with meth labs, but not Kentucky. I wonder how they get the restricted nasal decongestant in sparsely populated areas. I saw a documentary recently that noted the pharmacy log is controlled by federal authorities. Yet another reason to wait for all the information before jumping to conclusions.

[varelse]

66. They didn't take his laptop though?

I'd have thought that anything that could be sold would have been taken.

[nadinbrzezinski]

31. Trust me, I know

'nother country, got shot over them drugs when the war on drugs started. That one has just gotten very ugly, and I do hope this one, if this is the case... does not get that hot.

:-(

Nobody deserves to live in that fear.

[Tangerine LaBamba]

23. I agree,

and it's kind of discouraging to watch the stereotypes about the rural areas of Kentucky being tossed around here. It's as if there are no dope or meth or moonshine operations anywhere else in the world, let alone the US.

I'm sorry your state's getting this kind of idiotic rap. Any place that can produce Hunter S. Thompson AND Johnny Depp has my vote.

I also agree with you that the possibility of this being a random killing is just as likely as any other explanation. But the leaping and bounding to the conclusion that it's been politically driven is kind of staggering. Teh stupid, as they say.

It's interesting, though, that's for sure..............................................

[Chulanowa]

33. And it could have been aliens!

Or there could be a cell of crazed murderous hat fanatics who just didn't have time to finish writing "Fedora!"
It could be that he wrote "FED" on his own torso to remind himself that he had eaten, and then accidentally blundered into the rope remains of an ancient tire swing!

It could be anything!

But it isn't.

Let's take your scenario - Census worker stumbles upon someone's pot field or whatever while the grower is in the area. Let's say you are said criminal. You know you need to shut this guy up to avoid scrutiny.

Do you...
A) Shoot the guy, and bury him in a ditch somewhere
or
B) Lynch him after writing what amounts to an advertisement of ideology on him?

Now I'm not a criminal. But it would really seem to me, that using a politically and culturally charged method of execution like a lynching would attract attention, don't you? Add in the whole "fed" thing, and the case becomes a shining beacon of "HEY LOOK AT ME!"

This is a crime that wants attention, it wants news coverage, it's sending a message. You don't go through all this trouble just to quiet up someone who stumbles on your still. Especially not when going through all that trouble is going to bring down intense scrutiny. Whoever did this is probably a Nichols, McVeigh, or Roeder. He's just chilling somewhere waiting for the police to catch him so he can mug for a camera and act like a hero.

[imdjh]

58. Not to mention jumping right over statistical realities in conflict with world view. nt

[1776Forever]

20. People like you who have open minds in these areas are to be commended!

But you do know that there are many who have closed minds. They are stuck in the mire of their past hatred and believe the lies about guns being taken from them among other lies. These are the ones we need to worry about and I agree that they are all over our country but in this area there are many who live the same way they did back in the 50's.

Maybe this will wake some people up to the fact that if they are working people it is not the Government that is their worst enemy unless they are breaking the law. Then they do need to be caught and stopped. No one deserved to die like this and I hope they are caught soon!

[Hekate]

29. KnR, Kentuck.

:hug:

Hekate

[Joe the Liberal]

35. What's this about?....

I haven't been on all day so I don't really know what been going on.

[nonconformist]

36. THANK YOU. I live in Harlan County...

And I've been absolutely cringing at some of the posts here lately. I haven't posted at all lately because I was starting to feel so uncomfortable. And I'm not even originally from here!

The prejudice aimed at this area of the country is staggering.

[mwb970]

46. Do you feel that this "prejudice" you see is completely undeserved then?

:shrug:

[lynne]

37. We have family in the region, too, and I agree 100% with your post -

- This is certainly not representative of the people of KY who are some of the kindest and most caring persons on the planet.

Everything is speculation at this point but I'm thinking this had more to do with trying to keep people away from an illegal operation of sorts. Reminiscent of the old "Revenuers" and bootleggers days.

This could have occurred anywhere. I read a remark in another post on this thread that this could only occur in rural areas of the south. BUNK!!! One of the most horrific, brutal, bloody, heinous group of murders of the last century occurred in Los Angeles. Have we forgotten Charlie Manson and Family????

[proteus_lives]

41. K/R!

I hate when DU just on it's high horse about states and regions. To some Duers if you don't live in "Ecotopia" or the Upper East Coast you're a fucking morlock.

[RandomThoughts]

43. Long time since I heard a Time Machine refrence.

Note that the story of the Morlocks and Eloi are a comment on class, where one group had become a secretive group that hurt the kind Eloi for their own gain. Their are many doctrines that talk about creating a permanent two class society, even going as far as to talk about one group as superior to other people. Many different groups use that type of claim to superiority to justify being able to live while harming others.

It is the standard 'us and them' or superiority mentality that creates situations where the innocent get hurt by those that have destroyed their own conscious.

[stevedeshazer]

42. Hey kentuck, I'm with you.

I hear you.

[cherokeeprogressive]

44. I think it's funny kentuck, that most DUers look at people who live in that geographical area

with nothing less than abject derision. They think of them as inbred folk, most of whom are down to their last tooth, live barefoot, and who couldn't read a dictionary if they were paid to do so.

YET...

DUers have this strange belief that they sit around their cable or satellite feed and watch Glen Beck and Bill O'Reilly, after listening to Rush Limbaugh on their radio, then lie in waiting just hoping for some liberal government employee to come along so they can lynch him or her in the grand old tradition of their forefathers.

[lostnfound]

45. Good and bad everywhere. Wise people know that.,

Don't let a few people stereotyping get to you. Most of them probably know better deep down anyway.

[malaise]

47. +1

Great post Kentuck

K & R

[BlooInBloo]

53. "It could happen anywhere." - Where is this "anywhere" that southerners so often refer to?

Yes, it COULD happen anywhere. The truth is that is DOESN'T often happen outside of about 10 or 15 states. Those states happen to have a geographical and historical proximity to each other.



http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_lyn_tot-crime-lynchings-total

[lynne]

65. Does lynching make them deader than a shooting or a knifing? -

- Not hardly. Murder is murder no matter the method. And murder, unfortunately, occurs any and everywhere.

However, it sure does prove the old saying that "Guns don't kill, people do".

[Hosnon]

70. Here's the graph for "Violent Crimes":

Quite different from Bloo's...and relevant (i.e., includes data after 1968 and up to 2006)

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_vio_cri-crime-violent

ETA: And here's the one for "Hate Crimes":

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_hat_cri_tot_num-crime-hate-crimes-total-number

That website is a wealth of information that refutes Bloo's point.

[Hosnon]

69. Good Lord Bloo. That's from 1882-1968.

Are stats relevant in perpetuity to you?

[cwydro]

74. Lol!

Thanks for pointing that out.

[Hansel]

54. Good post. Thank you.

The percentage of really hateful people is very very tiny.

The cable media has bent over backward to make it seem like they dominate the country, but in sure numbers they pale next to the total population of this country. And all states share in the misfortune of having hate filled idiots as their citizens.

I posted a story a few minutes ago on racially motivated brutal beating of an autistic Black teenager and his uncle that happened in a decidedly multi-cultural and blue suburb of Minneapolis, Minnesota this week. It's not exactly a hotbed of red necks.

[lynne]

76. This incident doesn't appear to have anything to do with race -

- Clay county is 93% white so odds are high that a white man is the perp. Sparkman was white, as well. A rope is far more quite than a gun and, with the unavailability and price of ammo, a rope is cheaper, too.

Yes, agree that the percentage of hateful people in the U.S. is very, very tiny. Too bad that the media focuses on that minority.

[Deja Q]

64. This isn't about that susan atkins creature who killed Sharon Tate?

[varelse]

67. First of all, this California native supports you, and all other peaceful, law-abiding Kentuckians

and second, stereotyping and "broad brush" smearing are supposed to be against the rules here.

California has its deranged killers too - folks hailing from the home of Charles Manson, Richard Nixon, and Ronald Reagan can't be pointing too many fingers, after all.

[Joanne98]

75. Okay. Just don't ask me to lay off Michele Bachmann!

You'll have to take her away from my cold dead hands.