Al Gore's Car Company to get $529 Million in taxpayer money...

[lib2DaBone]

...cars will be built in FINLAND. Why not build cars in the USA? And why isn't the MSM Asking these questions?
-------------------------


Gore-Backed Car Firm Gets Large U.S. Loan

WASHINGTON -- A tiny car company backed by former Vice President Al Gore has just gotten a $529 million U.S. government loan to help build a hybrid sports car in Finland that will sell for about $89,000.

The award this week to California startup Fisker Automotive Inc. follows a $465 million government loan to Tesla Motors Inc., purveyors of a $109,000 British-built electric Roadster. Tesla is a California startup focusing on all-electric vehicles, with a number of celebrity endorsements that is backed by investors that have contributed to Democratic campaigns.

Fisker's Karma hybrid sports car, above, will initially cost about $89,000.
The awards to Fisker and Tesla have prompted concern from companies that have had their bids for loans rejected, and criticism from groups that question why vehicles aimed at the wealthiest customers are getting loans subsidized by taxpayers.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125383160812639013.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLTopStories

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. So Al Gore should spend all of his money here and nowhere else?

We don't make anything here anymore. I find that sad. But I don't see how it's Al Gore's fault. He is saving the planet, not just the USA :shrug:

[NightWatcher]

3. he's not "saving the planet" he's a venture capitalist cashing in on "green"

I know he's the untouchable golden calf of DU, but call it like it is. He's making money (nothing wrong with that), but that is what he's doing.

[Schema Thing]

9. But he is saving the planet.

[Warren Stupidity]

12. clueless bullshit

KPCB's investments in green technology may eventually pay off, or not. They are hugely risky, which is why that 'venture' word is used. Meanwhile part of this risk they are investing in is to create, through private/public funding, an electric vehicle transportation infrastructure in the bay area. They are actually doing something to change things and putting their money up to do it.

[glitch]

22. LaRouche despises Gore.

When I went to a talk by John Kerry in Seattle there were LaRouche tables out front earnestly criticizing Gore.
Apparently Kerry and Gore are interchangeable to LaRouche.

[karynnj]

30. Was that at the book tour event, where Kerry said LaRouche was nuts

The closest thing to fireworks came during the Q&A. When a woman confronted Teresa with the charge that global climate change is a fraud, Teresa patiently held her ground and cited the science. When the questioner continued to pursue her point without acknowledging Teresa's, Kerry interceded. It went something like this…

John Kerry: May I ask you a question?

Confrontational Questioner: Global warming…fraud…conspiracy…blah, blah, blah.

JK: Fine, may I ask you a question now?

CQ: Fraud…conspiracy…petition…blah, blah, blah.

JK: OK, may I ask you a question now?

CQ: Fraud…conspiracy…genocide…blah, blah, blah.

JK: Do you represent Lyndon LaRouch?

CQ: Yes.

JK: Lyndon LaRouche is nuts.

That last line is verbatim.

http://upper-left.blogspot.com/2007_04_01_archive.html#5407625119872943689

[glitch]

59. Yes, it was the book he co-wrote with Teresa, This Moment On Earth. I was at that talk! :) nt

[karynnj]

75. I went to two NYC book events

The first was with Teresa and they were fantastic. I think he has as much use for the LaRouche people as Barney Frank does.

[glitch]

100. I am with them on that :) nt

[Hannah Bell]

40. 1/2 billion in public money = "risky'. let me know when gore goes to

the poor farm.

[Warren Stupidity]

46. 200 mill from the VC firm is at risk

did you miss that part? But what exactly is your point? Should Gore not invest in Green Tech? Should he instead keep his money parked in safe low risk managed investments? Why is his putting his money where his mouth is some sort of crime? Did you even bother to check out what KPCB is up to? It seems they have a plan to jump start electric vehicle technology and infrastructure. Why would that be a bad thing?

[Hannah Bell]

49. let me know when gore goes bankrupt & is forced to give up his house.

[Warren Stupidity]

50. Why is that important to you?

Do you have a point?

[Hannah Bell]

51. "risk"

[Warren Stupidity]

52. Again - do you have a point?

[Hannah Bell]

53. "taxpayer money" + "risk"

[Warren Stupidity]

54. The VC firms capital is at risk.

Gore is a partner, so some of that capital is his. 'At risk' does not mean 'you lose your house' it means 'you lose your investment' if the investment fails, and VC investments fail all the time. It is how our system works. People invest in stuff. The higher the risk, the higher the potential upside, but also the higher the probability that you lose every cent you put in.

I'm sure you know all this. So what exactly is your point, other than mindlessly claiming that Al Gore (who you also note has a big house) is not risking anything?

[Hannah Bell]

62. gov't money is more than double al's vc firm's capital.

[Warren Stupidity]

65. yes? so what?

That makes the at risk investment around 750M. All of it is at risk.

[Hannah Bell]

68. "risk" for who?

[alarimer]

58. These are luxury cars no one but the rich can afford

These are not vehicles for the masses and never will be.

[Warren Stupidity]

60. The first two vehicle models are indeed high end

the intention is to develop the manufacturing base in order to lower the cost. 40K is not a 'luxury car no one but the rich can afford' unless you also consider all of the following to also be luxury cars no one but the rich can afford:

Audi
Infiniti
Saab
Ford Mustang
BMW
Dodge Challenger
Nissan 350-Z
Mercedes
Toyota Highlander
GMC Sierra 1500
Chevy Siverado 1500 Hybrid
Chrysler Aspen
Buick Lucerne
Lincoln MKS
Volvo S80
Acura TL
Chrysler 300
Lexus GS
Nissan Armada
Honda Pilot
GMC Yukon
Ford Expedition
Nissan Pathfinder
Chevy Suburban

and on and on and on

Seems like a huge array of vehicle models chasing a vanishingly small customer base.

Or perhaps 40K ain't what it used to be back when it was a lot of money. 40K is high end mass market.

[Rex]

85. So someone connected in politics gets a lot of money to help start

a start up company. Tell me again why this is news? Oh right, a liberal did it! Ha! Liberal HATE capitalism! :sarcasm:

[Warren Stupidity]

102. Again - the OP article is misleading bullshit.

This is not "Al Gore's car company". Al Gore is a partner in a VC firm that has invested in Fisker, they do not operate Fisker, they are simply investors. The federal money is a loan to help finance R&D and manufacturing here in the US, and these loans are being given to lots of green technology initiatives, even ones Al Gore is not connected to. Plus they are LOANS. Nobody is being given money.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Even so, why does he have to spend all of his money here?

The OP is just a silly attack on Al Gore, who is at least doing SOMETHING to address a serious problem.

[Hannah Bell]

41. it's not *his* money.

[Romulox]

19. Al Gore *claims* to be both a "free trader" and an "environmentalist".

He doesn't even seem to understand the incompatibility of his own positions. He's as crass as any "new" Democrat, and not nearly the hero he is made out to be, that's for sure.

[lunatica]

28. And your proof is where?

[Hannah Bell]

42. ,

[johnaries]

80. Have you ever been to Belle Meade? That's only an average

sized house, there. Not very impressive at all.

[Romulox]

105. Undisputed history? Al Gore was the admin's point man for NAFTA, MFN for China.

He argues for increased environmental regulation at home, and "free trade" with regimes abroad which observe little or no environmental regulations whatsoever. :wtf:

[girl gone mad]

83. +1

Sad to see liberals defending this.

[lunatica]

27. You're wrong

If he were making SUV gas guzzling he'd be doing what you claim. He is saving the planet by putting his money where his mouth is.

[Lagomorph]

45. I thought he is spending our money...

It's a government loan, your money. He's building cars to compete with American made cars. So what's wrong with funding innovation in America? As broke as we are, what the fuck are we doing lending money to people who take it offshore? I thought that was a bad thing for our economy. I thought we got pissed about some of the bailout money going offshore.

[Warren Stupidity]

47. it is an american company.

try reading the article itself, not the bullshit headline, and the many comments that explained why the headline is total bullshit.

[Lagomorph]

74. An even better reason to oppose it. It's Elitist.

The awards to Fisker and Tesla have prompted concern from companies that have had their bids for loans rejected, and criticism from groups that question why vehicles aimed at the wealthiest customers are getting loans subsidized by taxpayers.

"This is not for average Americans," said Leslie Paige, a spokeswoman for Citizens Against Government Waste, an anti-tax group in Washington. "This is for people to put something in their driveway that is a conversation piece. It's status symbol thing..."

...Fisker's top investors include Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, a veteran Silicon Valley venture-capital firm of which Gore is a partner. Employees of KPCB have donated more than $2.2 million to political campaigns, mostly for Democrats, including President Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton, according to the Center for Responsive Politics, a nonpartisan group that tracks campaign contributions.

I don't see how this is going to benefit the average American or the Democrats. It will, however, give the rich an opportunity to look greener than you or I.

[Touchdown]

91. You bold quote a right wing anti-tax group who smears Dem contributers.

... then you ignore the fact that these dollars are not going to the luxury cars already in production, but new more affordable models. The loans are to build the mass production infrastructure and get hunderds of thousands of cars on the road, as opposed to just the 500 sports cars that Tesla has made.


It's not elitist. Reading The WSJ is.

[Lagomorph]

93. I read everything

Information shows up where it shows up. Left, right, foreign & domestic.

Then it gets vetted.

If it holds up to vetting, I tend to accept it as usable, if not authoritative.

Nice reactionary move on your part. Very extreme right wing of you.

[Touchdown]

94. Work on that vetting process a little more.

You didn't read me nearly well enough to decide which wing I'm on.

[Lagomorph]

95. You attack me, you attack the source....

but where is yours? Give me the numbers on how many $90,000 luxury cars are sold to the public, rather than governments and corporations. Show me this market for hundreds of thousands of these cars.

[Touchdown]

96. I attacked your source. I fought back against your attack.

Big difference there, Pal.

On your vetting... You need to vet the fact of whether you read the article at all, or you fell for the misdirection the Wall Street Journal was playing.

The money is not going to $90,000 cars. It's going to build an infrastructure to build thousands (mass market) of $40,000 hybrid or battery electric cars, as well as battery plants and drivetrain factories. That fact is deep in the body of the article, not in the headline or what the OP had pasted.

What the average % of $4k cars are to others, I don't know, but I would say it's significant, since I see 4 SUVs for every small car where I live. Most SUVs are/were $40,000+.

[Lagomorph]

98. OK, you got me here.

Fisker said most of its DOE loan will be used to finance U.S. production of a $40,000 family sedan that has yet to be designed.

I totally skipped over that. I was working with this.

Production is scheduled to start in December, with about 15,000 vehicles a year expected to hit the U.S. market starting next June.

Many of the 1,500 people who have made deposits on the Karma are former BMW and Mercedes owners who want an environmentally friendly car without sacrificing luxury, Mr. Fisker said.

He said he pitched the Karma to Mr. Gore at an event hosted by KPCB last year, and that the former vice president almost immediately submitted a down payment for the car.

I didn't like the numbers I was seeing. Just the same, I've never bought a car above the $20,000's and could never afford a car in the $40,000's.

[spanone]

2. it is NOT al gore's company.

[Buzz Clik]

5. Snark. Time to dust off the accusations about Al Gore's zinc mine (that he didn't own)

[karynnj]

31. sanity - finally

Gore is simply one of the investors. The reason this article calls it "Al Gore's" is to create the appearance of a conflict of interest where there is none.

[Sanity Claws]

4. Al Gore doesn't control that company

It is not his company and he is not an officer or any kind of manager of the corporation.

He is an investor in an organization (of which he doesn't have complete control) and that organization invested money in the car company. That investing organization does not control what the car company does.

Blaming this on Gore is a stretch of the imagination.

[xchrom]

6. when did al gore acquire this company?

and did anyone tell fisker?

[Buzz Clik]

7. What does it mean to be "lib2DaBone"? Koolaid drinker? Bones are necon? Just asking

[Traveling_Home]

8. U Friggin' heretic - how dare you question manbearpig reality nt

[Warren Stupidity]

10. Oh bullshit

Is this right wing bullshit saturday on DU?

"Fisker initially will use a US$169.3-million loan from the manufacturing program for engineering work in Michigan and California to get the Karma ready for delivery by next year. In the second stage, a US$359.4-million loan will be used for production of the Nina model, intended to sell for as little as US$39,900 after a federal tax credit, Fisker said on Tuesday.

Fisker's Karma model is to be assembled under contract in Finland, with about 65% of the car's parts to be produced in the U.S., said Russell Datz, a company spokesman said. Those include a motor supplied by General Motors Co. and batteries from Ener1 Inc.'s EnerDel factory in Indiana, he said.

Read more: http://www.financialpost.com/news-/energy/green-energy/story.html?id=2032377#ixzz0SDhwVLS8

That is the first part of the bullshit. This is a US company and ALL of the initial money is being spent right here in the US. SOME of the production work will be done in Finland.

Now for this being 'Al Gore's car company' Al Gore is a partner in Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers and KPCB, a huge and famous venture capital firm is the major backer of Fisker and is investing heavily in a project to transform the San Francisco Bay Area into a pilot project for an electric vehicle supporting transportation infrastructure. Fisker is not Al Gore's car company.

[tjwash]

20. Every Saturday is RW bullshit Saturday here lately.

I'm surprised they didn't start with the zinc mine / inventing the internet bullshit.

[kristopher]

11. Bit of a conflict in the article...

While the right wingnut, Murdoch owned WSJ article leads with the sentence you put in bold, "A tiny car company backed by former Vice President Al Gore has just gotten a $529 million U.S. government loan to help build a hybrid sports car in Finland that will sell for about $89,000", if you go a bit further that looks to be completely contradicted:

"DOE officials spent months working with Fisker on its application, touring its Irvine, Calif., and Pontiac, Mich., facilities and test-driving prototypes.

Matt Rogers, who oversees the department's loan programs as a senior adviser to Energy Secretary Steven Chu, said Fisker was awarded the loan after a "detailed technical review" that concluded the company could eventually deliver a highly fuel-efficient hybrid car to a mass audience. Fisker said most of its DOE loan will be used to finance U.S. production of a $40,000 family sedan that has yet to be designed.

"It's the ability to drive significant change in fuel economy across a large market segment" that swayed the department to approve the Fisker loan, Mr. Rogers said. "We got quite excited."

Henrik Fisker, who designed cars for BMW, Aston Martin and Tesla before starting his Fisker Automotive in 2007, said his goal is to build the first plug-in electric hybrids that won't sacrifice the luxury, performance and looks of traditional gas-powered luxury cars.

The Karma will target an exclusive audience -- Gore was one of the first to sign up for one. Mr. Fisker says all new technology starts out being expensive. He pointed to flat-screen televisions that once started at $25,000 but are now affordable to the mass market.

The four-door Karma, powered by a lithium-ion battery, will be able to run solely on electric power for 50 miles, and will achieve an average fuel economy of 100 mpg over the span of a year, the company says. Production is scheduled to start in December, with about 15,000 vehicles a year expected to hit the U.S. market starting next June..."


That article is nothing but an attack on the pending energy legislation by fossil fuel interests.

[lib2DaBone]

14. My mistake.. he doesnt "own" company..only has money invested..

Not an attack on Al Gore... still in all... why not make the cars here instead of Finland? Just asking.. not that we need jobs?

[kristopher]

15. Did you even read the article? You STILL have it wrong.

Matt Rogers, who oversees the department's loan programs as a senior adviser to Energy Secretary Steven Chu, said Fisker was awarded the loan after a "detailed technical review" that concluded the company could eventually deliver a highly fuel-efficient hybrid car to a mass audience. Fisker said most of its DOE loan will be used to finance U.S. production of a $40,000 family sedan that has yet to be designed.


What part of that don't you get?

[G_j]

17. may still have time to edit... nt

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

18. And how successful will they be creating and selling $40,000 cars. A disconnect to

what most people can afford.

[Warren Stupidity]

23. The general idea is to seed and jumpstart the technology.

Over time, as efficiencies of scale kick in, prices will drop. If you are joining ranks with the OP's rightwing bullshit in assaulting Gore for actually doing something positive to change our technology infrastructure, you should be ashamed of yourself.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

32. And I have assaulted Gore how? I was just questioning how many people

could afford a $40,000 car. That was part of the underscore in the post I was replying to, as if $40,000 was a great bargain.

Personally, I believe that the new crop of green cars that will eventually make their way to the market, including the electric car, should have heavy government subsidies and loans provided to consumers to make them affordable for as many people as possible. This way we get a true head start on saving the environment.

It would be lovely if we could get out of 2 unnecessary wars and subsidizing the military industrial complex and do something finally useful to help our planet.

[Warren Stupidity]

33. You aren't going to have a 20K electric car until you have lots of 40k cars

And yes, it certainly seemed as if you were jumping on the Evil Al Gore theme of the OP. If you weren't, my mistake. The complaint of 'its for an 89000 car' was another pile of bullshit. The federal loan guarantees and the funding from KPBC are both aimed at building mass production consumer electric vehicles. You don't get there overnight. 40,000 is on the high end of mass production consumer vehicles, but is on the high end and not out of line with other high end mass production vehicles.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

39. Thanks for your insight and BTW... I adore Al Gore and you were

definitely mistaken.

[blue_onyx]

76. That brings up something interesting

When GM said the Chevy Volt plug-in hybrid would cost $40,000, everyone on DU went crazy criticizing them. But someone simply questions the affordability of a $40,000 car from a non-GM company and that makes them a right winger. DU seems to often lack consistency.

[Warren Stupidity]

77. 'Everyone' - 1. I think the volt is a great idea.

And GM used to have the capital to bring it into production. Maybe not any more. You go find my post crying out against the volt.

I suspect the same people who are fixated on the initial cost of new technology here were also having the same upset over new technology in the Volt.

[Touchdown]

103. Make that -2. I think the Volt is cool!

I just wish they'd make the 2 door sports coupe the concept car was. Maybe if the 4 door is successful, they'll make a second model.

[BREMPRO]

70. exactly- Tesla (USA) is working on an affordable electric sedan and the funds

should help them get it to market sooner. I don't know why american funds are going to a foreign company- that doesn't seem on the face of it a good idea. I also don't get why so many are shitting on Gore- who has been the single most influential public figure in getting the world to pay attention to the dangers of global warming. Of course he has money invested- he wants the technology to SUCCEED and gives away alot of the money he earns. Why all the snarking on Gore here?

[Warren Stupidity]

78. It ain't a foreign company. The OP is total bullshit.

It is an american company. All the R&D and at least 65% of the parts are made here. Google it. Or even read the OP's article, which can't help but contradict its own headline.

[BREMPRO]

81. I didn't notice it was WSJ- built in skepticism radar was off.

WSJ is always right slanted and not a reliable source. I see now it's a CA based company. so wtf is with the Finland reference? you are right about the contradictions. they appear to be saying Gore had influence on the decision- then later that he didn't. These two companies have the most advance domestic based electric car technology and R&D so it makes perfect sense to give them funds to help develop affordable sedans. The whole elite thing is just thrown out and then later put in context with how tech development and economics works. the original poster really should have checked the source before launching this misleading op piece.

[Deja Q]

36. I didn't read the article but I did read your response...

thank you. :)

though you did mention the E-word, "eventually"...

[Warren Stupidity]

25. Read your own damn article, which contradicts itself about where the jobs are.

Some work assembling vehicle will be done in Finland. All of the design work and the majority of the production is being done here.

None of your points are valid. Nothing. Try again. Total failure.

[Romulox]

16. More taxpayer money used to outsource jobs. Hurray for the "free market"! nt

[Warren Stupidity]

24. try reading some of the posts explaining why the OP is full of shit.

[NNN0LHI]

21. Wall Street Journal?

Jesus Christ ...

Don

[GoCubsGo]

34. Yup. Murdoch's rag.

Not surprising they're trying to create controversy where there is none.

[Uzybone]

26. Al Gore invented the internet

is this 2000 again?

[Uncle Joe]

29. You got two points wrong in your piss poor commentary.

1. It's not Al Gore's car company.

2. It will be built in the USA, "production" is a big word but it means the same thing as the word "built."

"Matt Rogers, who oversees the department's loan programs as a senior adviser to Energy Secretary Steven Chu, said Fisker was awarded the loan after a "detailed technical review" that concluded the company could eventually deliver a highly fuel-efficient hybrid car to a mass audience. Fisker said most of its DOE loan will be used to finance U.S. production of a $40,000 family sedan that has yet to be designed.

"It's the ability to drive significant change in fuel economy across a large market segment" that swayed the department to approve the Fisker loan, Mr. Rogers said. "We got quite excited."

[Deja Q]

38. We're all running more off of emotions these days.

Not hard to do, unfortunately.

[Uncle Joe]

44. Emotion is one thing, false witness is another. n/t

[Deja Q]

35. K&R to compensate.

At least it's hybrid, but if Gore really was serious, he'd think about getting taxpayer money to subsidize useless shit like buses or consumer automobiles.


(you know, where the majority of improvements can be made)

[Uncle Joe]

48. Gore is serious and this is only one segment albeit a critical one to evolve.

His work and that of his like minded allies continues all all fronts of promoting green technology, but one size doesn't fit all and many needs will be addressed.

I have no doubt more will be coming.

[Nikki Stone1]

37. $529 Million in taxpayer money? Why?

?

"This is not for average Americans," said Leslie Paige, a spokeswoman for Citizens Against Government Waste, an anti-tax group in Washington. "This is for people to put something in their driveway that is a conversation piece. It's status symbol thing."

[Warren Stupidity]

43. First the WSJ and now "Citizens Against Government Waste"

Why? because without subsidies and support we will not have a 21st century green transportation industry. Instead we will either continue to boil the planet with our gas guzzlers, of which we have something like 250 million, or cede this emerging technology to other nations that will invest in their future, or more likely: both.

We spent 800 billion or so, so far, with more to come, on a freaking useless harmful criminal war in Iraq. We continue to spend 100s of billions on military adventures and useless military crap every yesr. We bailed out Wall Street to the tune of at least 1,000,000,000,000, for which we got nothing including no new regulations to prevent Wall Street from repeating what they just did. But invest 500,000,000 in our future? Heck no, that would be an outrageous waste of taxpayer money.

[Nikki Stone1]

55. Why is that money being spent on luxury cars and not the 15-30K cars that most of us can afford?

That was what I was asking, of course, if you read the complaint in the blurb. Condescending answers just make you look like you need male enhancement meds.

[Warren Stupidity]

63. you quoted rightwing anti-tax bullshit here and you expect respect?

and then you insult my penis?

Nice.

Ok, having answered your same STUPID QUESTION elsewhere in this thread at least 8 times, here is the WHY again: the cost of usable electric cars, even with subsidies, is too high to sell them for 15-30K. So, if you think that this is a promising personal transportation technology for the future, one that can wean us off of our 250,000,000 gas guzzlers, you have to invest in developing a manufacturing base so that over time, with economies of scale, the cost to manufacture will come down enough so that a usable electric car can be sold in the 20K range. If you do not make that investment the manufacturing costs are unlikely to come down anytime soon.

[Touchdown]

92. How fast would you be banned if you took her penis insult

... and flipped it around to the inadequate size of her rack? My guess. 10 minutes.

Typical she didn't respond.

[Warren Stupidity]

101. I considered responding in kind and came to the same conclusion.

Instead I think I attempted to engage on the issues, and as noted, got nowhere.

[BlooInBloo]

56. Oh goody! Another chance for DUers to make up bad things to believe about Democrats!

[Warren Stupidity]

61. We are very good at it.

It is our specialty. That plus not being able to read an article that isn't very long and completely contradicts itself, or read any of the numerous responses pointing out how the OP is total bullshit.

Plus we have an I Hate Al Gore contingent here, just like over on FR, only smaller.

[alarimer]

57. Why is either of these companies getting any money from the government?

Especially if they will not be building them here. And they are in no way affordable for the average person, so I am not sure how this actually helps the environment.

[Touchdown]

89. Because they are building them here. Article is BS.

Wall Street Journal. Murdoch's Rag. There ya' go!

[lib2DaBone]

64. My bad. I should have never suggested that we build cars in the USA.

I thought that if tax money was paying for this.. maybe we should get some jobs out of it. Obviously... I stand corrected.

[Warren Stupidity]

66. or you should read your own link

[Touchdown]

90. Those cars will be built in the USA. Nissan got $1.6 Billion from the same funds.

Nissan's will be built in the USA too (Tennessee). Don't believe The Wall Street Journal! Limbaugh is a columnist there!.

[JI7]

67. i knew this would be full of misleading info

and if Gore just wanted to make money there are many ways he could easily do that and make more than he is now.

[Junkdrawer]

69. The OP took a WSJ hit piece and then moved it further to the right...

adding even more lies.

This post belongs on FreeRepublic and not DU.

[lib2DaBone]

71. Baloney.. why do you feel the ned to pile on? I agreed with you..

[lib2DaBone]

72. And that would be how?

[flvegan]

73. Fisker is also putting in a 40,000 sf facility in Michigan, I believe.

That Karma is badass. Good for them.

[roody]

79. The US fucked over Al Gore. He owes it nothing.

[johnaries]

82. Gore has always said that Green makes economic sense.

Yes, he is on many investment boards and is a consultant for many companies to help them save and/or make money by going Green. He uses a lot of the money he makes to help spread his message and invest in Green technologies and initiatives:

Gore has been involved in a number of environmental activities since 2004 when he co-launched Generation Investment Management, a company for which he serves as Chair. The company was "a new London fund management firm that plans to create environment-friendly portfolios. Generation Investment will manage assets of institutional investors, such as pension funds, foundations and endowments, as well as those of 'high net worth individuals,' from offices in London and Washington, D.C."<180> A few years later, Gore also founded The Alliance for Climate Protection, an organization which eventually founded the We Campaign. Gore also became a partner in the venture capital firm, Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers, heading that firm's climate change solutions group.

Gore's involvement in environmental issues was later the subject of a few awards. It became the subject of a 2006 documentary film An Inconvenient Truth. This film won the Academy Award for Documentary Feature and <181> became the subject of the book, An Inconvenient Truth: The Planetary Emergency of Global Warming and What We Can Do About It. The book won a Grammy Award for Best Spoken Word Album in February, 2009.<2> Later, in 2007, Gore was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, which was shared by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, headed by Rajendra K. Pachauri (Delhi, India). The award was given "for their efforts to build up and disseminate greater knowledge about man-made climate change, and to lay the foundations for the measures that are needed to counteract such change."<182> Gore and Pachauri accepted the Nobel Peace Prize in Oslo, Norway on December 10, 2007. He also helped to organize the Live Earth benefit concerts.

In 2009, Al Gore told the first Times Smith School World Forum on Enterprise and the Environment that urgent action is needed for a problem not faced before and that the Obama administration has taken huge strides towards tackling climate change: “Within one month of taking office President Obama secured $80 billion for renewable energy and green infrastructure and then just two weeks ago the House of Representatives passed the Waxman-Markey Bill also known as the American Clean Energy and Security Act which for all of its flaws does put a price on carbon and is very much a step in the right direction."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_gore

And don't forget his revolutionary concept in new interactive media, Current TV. And let's also not forget his selfless efforts in evacuating patients from NO after Katrina.

His contributions - both monetarily and otherwise - are enormous. He walks the walk, despite all the RW bullshit.

[HughMoran]

84. Wall Street Journal hit piece posted here with feeding commentary?

:wtf:

[DainBramaged]

86. I got the same douche chills as you over this thread......

[donheld]

87. This from Rupert Murdock's rag

[Touchdown]

88. Convenient that WSJ left out who also got loans.

$5.9 Billion goes to Ford.
$1.6 Billion goes to Nissan.

The fact that Nissan received more money that Fisker and Tesla combined, shows me this is a call to action looking for an outrage, even though their EV production will go to Smyrna Tn. and not Japan.

For the "rich cars" people on this thread. None of Tesla's money is going to be spent on the current Roadster which only has a production of 200 a year or so. It's going to be put to mass produce this...



It is $50,000 (Model S), but what the money is going to be spent mostly on is a drivetrain factory (so they can diversify and be a drivetrain supplier as well), battery pack plant, something really needed across all EV production as Tesla's motor/batteries is already in use in over 500 cars and field tested, and a final assembly plant in the US, so that 50,000 plus Model S can be produced per year. Tesla also promised that they would have a $30,000 car for sale before 2015 with the help of these loans. Daimler's Smart Car is the first non-Tesla car to get Tesla's drivetrain and battery pack.

Likewise, the loan to Fisker is not going to their $80,000 car, but to a newer model he's designing for $40,000. The $80,000 car is assembled in Finland, the "loan" model will be built in The US. It is disingenuous for WSJ to place a picture of the $80,000 car on it, say that's it's built in Europe, then contradict their own headline in the article. The model the loan is for has no picture yet.

GM and Chrysler got no money because they were going through bankruptcy restructuring. They will probably be eligible for the loans soon, and I assume that GM's loan will be bigger than Ford's.

[glitch]

99. "Disingenious" is being too kind. And people need to understand the difference between "loans" and

"grants" on this thread, crikey!

Thanks for the information the corporate media should have clearly provided. :hi:

[Romulox]

106. Reports all say the Nissan monies will be spent on a line in JAPAN. nt

[Touchdown]

107. Not the reports I read.

The US government will loan 5.9 billion dollars to Ford Motor Co. and 1.6 billion dollars to Japanese automaker Nissan to invest in improving the fuel economy of their US-built vehicles, officials said Tuesday.

http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/23062009/323/photo/government-loan-1-6-billion-dollars-nissan-invest-improving-fuel.html

Ms. Cischke said the financing would be applied to improving the fuel efficiency of more than a dozen Ford cars and trucks, including the Focus, Escape, Mustang, Taurus and F-150 pickup.


Nissan’s $1.6 billion will be applied to retrofitting its Smyrna, Tenn., plant to build the company’s forthcoming (and as yet unnamed) electric sedan. Construction is expected to start in late 2012.

Nissan was projecting production capacity of 150,000 vehicles at the plant. It will also build a second plant for batteries in Smyrna, with an annual capacity of 200,000 battery packs. “This project will expand our Smyrna plant and that’s great economic news,” said Dominique Thormann, a senior vice president at Nissan North America.

Nissan, which has been aggressively pursuing partnerships to build charging networks for its electric vehicles, was the only foreign automaker to get financing in the first round.

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/06/23/us-technology-loans-for-ford-nissan-and-tesla/

[Romulox]

108. "Initial manufacturing is said to be scheduled for late this year or early in 2010 at Nissan's Oppam

"Initial manufacturing is said to be scheduled for late this year or early in 2010 at Nissan's Oppama plant."

http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/1021771_2012-nissan-ev-electric-car-to-be-revealed-august-2

The cars are scheduled to be imported into the US starting as early as next year, but Nissan is saying that these cars may be produced in Tennessee by 2012.

They got the money right upfront, however! :shrug:

[Touchdown]

109. I know it costs $2 on iTunes, but Dan Rather interviews the CFO of Tesla

and he explains how this loan works. It's been more than a week since I've seen it, but essentially the loan works as a reimbursement program for money the company already spent. I'm not quite clear on the actual details, but I'm sure Nissan's loan is structured the same. The Government will pay if the initial investment meets the standards set forth in the loan program.

I read your link, and they are under the impression there's only one car. Nissan's Oppama plant is building the Leaf, which is described in the article. On my NYT link, it said that Nissan is working on a "yet unfinished 4 door sedan model" which will be built in Tenn. Your article is from June, and we know what the Leaf already looks like. A 5 door hatchback.

Further down on your article is this... The DoE loan guarantees will go not only toward US manufacturing of the 2012 Nissan EV, but also toward production of the vehicle's high-capacity lithium-ion battery--which might later be supplied to other firms beside Nissan.

I don't think they are allowed to spend this money on their Oppama plant or the Leaf (unless Leaf production moved to Smyrna). Just like Fisker isn't allowed to use the money for his $80,000 sedan (except for the technology) or Tesla to use their's on the $110,000 Roadster. Tesla's Model S and a $40,000 Fisker "Nina" auto will be though.

Dan Rather Reports Podcasts on iTunes, listing 63.

[earth mom]

97. Go Al! I'm glad you are creating something great to help the environment with that g'ment loan.

Instead of doing what the banksters did with taxpayer money-screwing the people, hoarding the money, giving out huge bonuses and figuring out ways to screw the people some more!

Go Al! :yourock:

[Touchdown]

104. Dan Rather Reports did a much more accurate show 2 weeks ago on this subject.

It isn't free, but it's available to buy on DVD or get on iTunes. I looked on Hulu, but there's nothing there for it.

He's much more informed than these fuckers at WSJ are.

DVD store.
http://hdnet-store.stores.yahoo.net/danrare.html

iTunes links for podcast. it's $1.99 per podcast. episode 63
http://www.hd.net/danrather_epguide.html

I suggest checking out his other eps. This is a very informative show.