Regardless of your opinion on Polanski...

[dogknob]

A bunch of Americans with "threatened" Swiss bank accounts got the Swiss to selectively enforce a law that has been in effect for the last 12 years for the specific purpose of creating a wedge issue to divide and distract liberals.

Meanwhile, the Cons continue to sabotage Health Care and quietly move to control (as in Pest Control) progressives in the media and on the Internet.

They have, with impeccable timing, dropped the "nuke" of wedge issues into the liberal debate in an attempt to divide us. People, there's a reason the NFL outlawed the "wedge" play decades ago. It subverted the entire game. This is no different. These creeps will do anything to get their way, including trying to sucker the Obama Administration into a "with-us-or-against-us" on the subject of pedophilia. Bullshit.

Polanski will be extradited and our judicial system will do its job. Give this astroturf flame war a rest and get back to stuff that actually matters... please.

[Frank Booth]

1. How is this a wedge issue?

Are they trying to separate the pedophile-supporting Democrats from the non-pedophile-supporting Democrats? Is the first branch large enough to make a difference?

[dogknob]

2. More like a sick, non-existent twig

If we have learned anything from Beck, Limbaugh, Bush et al. It is that facts are irrelevant. Merely associating progressives with pedophilia is enough... just like associating ACORN with election fraud. ACORN IS associated with election fraud. They saw it and reported it. This makes them "associated" with election fraud.

Years ago, the National Enquirer called CPS and reported Roseanne. By law, CPS had to open an investigation. When the Enquirer subsequently reported that Roseanne was under investigation by CPS, she couldn't do a darn thing about it.

Our resources as progressives are limited and the Cons know this. The Polanski issue is a carefully crafted astroturf waste of time.

The guy who de-rec'd this earlier is a troll. Who else would de-rec a post encouraging progressives to recognize this as the "Free Bird Seed & Anvil" diversion that it is?

[Democracyinkind]

3. Your first line makes absolutely no sense. If you knew Switzerland, you wouldn't make such claims.

[dogknob]

4. You sound like Arthur

"... If you knew Switzers like I know Switzers... Oh... Oh... I need a drink!"

Enlighten us, oh great pontificator! Or marry Liza against the wishes of your billionaire father. Just do something for God's sake!

[Democracyinkind]

5. You're the one making claims. Unlike America, meddling with a prosecution is serious business here.

Please source your claims. If this is so obvious and true, why has no one more trustworthy than you written about this?

the rest of your post... uncalled for... billionaire father? you're getting more delusional, post by post. I wonder if you're one of the 4% of Americans who could actually locate Switzerland on a map...



But on topic. You wrote about some Americans who got the swiss to arrest him. Provide me with names, links, dates and procedures. I'm very interested in your investigated facts and I'll bet my paper would run a story on it. So please enlighten me, great unriddler of discernible reality that you are. Or maybe what you wrote is just another bullshit conspiracy that doesn't need proof since it's so obvious? Like the jewish cabal running the world?

[dogknob]

8. You never saw Arthur?

The Liza joke was a joke.

A lot of very wealthy people feel "threatened" by progressives and the fact that they are now being taken very seriously. The Polanski case, regardless of my personal feelings about it, is being used to distract people who would otherwise be discussing much more pressing issues. The cost of getting a new, high-profile celebrity trial is worth the investment for these creeps.

Rachel and O'Donnell were right not to cover it tonight and I hope they continue not to cover it. As I pointed out, Polanski will be dealt with, but it is worth neither the attention nor the vitriol I have seen here.

As for Switzerland, my hypothesis is admittedly conjecture. But Switzerland's track record has been to follow the money. Their "neutrality" did wonders for dental work (gold fillings extracted from corpses) and fine (plundered) art back in WWII. Why enforce this law against this person now? He's been back-and-forth between France and Switzerland many, many times since 1997, when the Swiss first signed the extradition treaty.

Follow the money. That is all this is about.

Source my claims? I can't afford a Swiss bank account OR health care. Source yours.

[Democracyinkind]

11. Mine are sourced. The important date is 2005. He didn't enter by plane in 2005-2009, so he didn't

get arrested.

Nazi Gold - granted; but that doesn't prove anything besides from the immorality of Swiss Banks. By the time an actual investigation was made, these bankers didn't kill it, but co opted it and complied with it.

Another thing I don't get about this theory. The UBS story is so old. What would there be to cover by now? as you know, those folks that the US really was after (5 mill plus) have more or less all been dealt with. Also, there is a new treaty, so this particular form of tax evasion in Switzerland for Americans is gone... what^s the cover-up about then?

By the way. You could afford a swiss bank account (free, no fees) as you could afford health care (mixed system where we would pay for you if you couldn't.)
Switzerland is a pretty progressive country, if you disregard those corpses in the cellar. One thing that is true about Switzerland though, and that I can guarantee you: It is probably the county with the most uncorrupted prosecution/law enforcement system in the world, and cases of meddling with investigations or making false arrests would be unheard of in this country. THe cops would whistle blow, the airport authorities would, and the court would release Polanski right away if there was even the slightest proof of such dealings.

Just saying. It's suspicious to me too, but I don't really see a conspiracy involving my ex colleagues at the airport and the justice minister of Switzerland.

and no, having grown up in Europe mostly, I totally missed Arthur, whatever that is. No offense taken. I find your post intriguing.

[dogknob]

16. Arthur...

... was a very popular film here in the states in the 80s starring Dudley Moore & Liza Minelli.

I was not accusing anyone of making a false arrest. Polanski is a fugitive from U.S. justice. I am a comedian and not a journalist, as you are, so my job is to chuckle at the remarkable coincidence and openly mock my fellow countrymen who flame each other about pedophilia. Pedophilia is an atrocity, but we Americans are collectively suckers for a well-timed, high-profile celebrity trial. We can't afford good writing anymore, so we invented the "reality show."

The Polanski Kerfuffle is a very-convenient distraction at a very critical point in American history. It is my moral responsibility to remind people that it is a criminal case, like any other AND NOT something for us to fight about. The people who deny 20% of health insurance claims and strive to obfuscate the progressive media WANT another tool to divide progressives.

In comedy, timing is everything. In crushing opposition, everything is apparently acceptable. A lot of hard work and sacrifice went into ousting the junta from our government and we can't let what is ultimately a non-issue be used to facilitate its return.

[Democracyinkind]

20. Structurally speaking, I agree with what you say. I really like what you write.

being only "half american" and having mostly grown up in Europe, I must say that the Polanski case is getting an odd treatment from my european point of view. I'm not much a fan of generalizations, but America sure has a problem with sexuality. And yes, it would be easy for anyone to exploit that problem to create another irrelevent endless debate on sexual morality. Just look at what happened on DU. It's crazy.

So, since I am warming up to your theory, one could check WHO in the US provided Switzerland with the flight number and date. Maybe the guy working in the DOJ (or on whatever level that information was past on, I guess DOJ since it's and international thing) is a Con and smelled a chance for distraction of the important debates. I could buy into that because assuming someone in the DOJ is more partisan than patriotic doesn't seem outlandish to me. Maybe someone should check that.

[dogknob]

22. Never happen, my friend

The metric system was too hard for us and we are outlawing Evolution and teaching "Inquiry Math."

Someone in the DOJ being more partisan than patriotic? I recommend another American film, "Network." There are no countries to be patriotic for, just corporations. The idea of nations is as much a distraction as this Polanski thing.

[Democracyinkind]

24. Your preaching to the choir here. Network was good.

I've had my fair share of American culture and living in America, although it may not be that apparent, what with my lack of knowing about Arhur...

Still, there are allot of people working for the DOJ who don't have a clue about what your write, so their percieved allegiance is for the USA and they woudln't just go rogue, that's what I meant.

While I agree with what you write structurally, indivudually things tend to be more complicated. Either way, this should be an easy issue to draw specific conclusions from - find the guy and anaylze his actions.

[Ghost Dog]

6. I wondered if high-powered Swiss aren't dropping a hint here

(to France, US and others...) that they might have plenty of 'inside info' and opportunity to turn in plenty of high-powered nationals of those countries who may have been taking advantage of Swiss, er, 'generosity' until now... (edit: unless they get a presidential pardon, for example, like one Marc Rich).

Polanski, like many others, even has a 'second home' in Switzerland, I hear.

Indeed, 'why now'?

[Democracyinkind]

9. Not that I am convinced by the official line, but it is possible.

As long as he didn't take a plane to travel into Switzerland, it is entirely possible that he wasn't asked for ID by authorities in the last 4 years. Obviously, no one would have an incentive to point him out to the authorities or force them to make the arrest. Walking through customs is another thing though. There's no conspiracy there, he got his passport checked - and the bells went off because of the 2005 warrant.

I'd need to see proof of him entering by plane thru Basel, Zurich or Geneva in the last 4 years in order to take the "why now" question serious. Why now? Exactly because this is the first time that he walked through customs at an airport in Switzerland since 2005.

If you have other info, I'd love to know.

[dogknob]

13. You may or may not have a point there...

... but think of all the "real news" that got ignored during the OJ Reality Show.

The U.S. brand of justice will be served for better or worse in the Polanski matter. I'm pointing out that big money has a big interest in creating a new distraction and pedophilia is an effective way to do it. Don't let it distract you. Comcast is trying to eradicate the progressive media as we speak. They beat the FCC in the U.S. Court of appeals on the "owning more than 30%" issue and they are systematically dropping MSNBC from their basic cable service, leaving low-income Americans with Fox and, now, "OJ - The Next Generation."

[Democracyinkind]

14. Ok, I know this isn't fair: But given your theory, your thread means success for the cons.

The thing with cover-up news I get, and I believe that these things are pulled to some extent. But the amount of meddling it would take to get Polanski arrested makes this case rather unlikely to me.

Polanski was arrested on Saturday (GMT) ..(??) .... is his arrest still making headlines in the US? the headline time is already over here.

and this weekend was slow news, minus the elections in germany and stuff.

[dogknob]

17. Yes. It is still big news here.

Our media, for the most part, are the lapdogs of those who installed the Bush Junta.

[Ghost Dog]

15. Well... Found this:

...

Bern says it acted in accordance with a mandate from the United States, which told them the number of the flight and its time of arrival in Switzerland. A spokesman from the Swiss justice and police ministry said this was standard procedure.

...

Switzerland had signed its current extradition treaty with the US in 1990, and it has been in force since 1997. The treaty contractually binds authorities on both sides to apprehend anyone sought by the other. An international warrant for the filmmaker's arrest was issued in 2005 for the crimes, which are not covered by the US statute of limitations.

"Of course, you can always handle things differently," Moreillon said. "One could have perhaps told Mr Polanski that his presence was not wanted in Switzerland, all the more so because he was coming for a festival. But strictly legally speaking, Switzerland unfortunately didn't have an option."

Swiss Justice Minister Eveline Widmer-Schlumpf said there was no political influence or "any pressure whatsoever" on the part of the Americans to have Polanski apprehended.

Although Polanski has travelled to Switzerland in the past – he has a chalet in Gstaad – this was the first time that Swiss authorities knew exactly when he would be coming onto their soil, she said.

"I can assure you that this was simply a question of law enforcement," the justice minister told Swiss television on Sunday night. "This case happens to concern a very famous person but it doesn't matter how famous you are under Swiss law."

Polanski has stayed for three months this year in Gstaad, it was disclosed.

The Blick newspaper found that "laughable" and alluded to the July 2008 arrest of Hannibal Gaddafi, the son of Libyan ruler Moammar Gaddafi, on charges he beat his servants in a Geneva hotel. In this case the Swiss government has blamed the Geneva authorities "for not allowing Hannibal Gaddafi to get away with abuses", it pointed out.

"The Americans have said the Swiss government has been 'extremely cooperative' and that really hurts," said Blick, adding that Switzerland had allowed a guest to "fall into a mean trap".

In an apparent allusion to the recent UBS tax fraud case in the US, it commented that people are "extremely cooperative" when they want to make up for past errors.

The Basel newspaper, Basler Zeitung, wondered why the Swiss authorities had acted as they had, pointing out that "what was possible for Polanski in Berlin, Cannes, and Venice – accepting awards – doesn't work in Zurich."

"Certainly there were ways to warn him before he came. The Swiss film scene is right to be disgusted and to speak of a 'slap in the face of all cultural artists in Switzerland'."

/... http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/front/Polanski_arrest_cues_mixed_emotions.html?siteSect=105&sid=11279980&rss=true&ty=st

Edit: so, a specific "mandate from the US", at this time, when there were clearly plenty of earlier opportunities to pick him up at any frontier point (the Swiss road and rail and air frontier police are very alert, in my experience) or at home in Gstaad.

[Democracyinkind]

18. Note on your edit: Swiss road and rail police only search certain corridors.

It is no problem to enter Switzerland by train or by car without getting your ID checked. In fact, it is more likely to enter Switzerland by car/train without being saerched/asked for ID than it is to get yourself searched. For me, that's the point.

But one snippet is interesting: It was the US that provided the flight number and the date. So at that point, Swiss authorities LEGALLY HAD NO CHANCE BUT TO ENFORCE THE AMERICAN REQUEST. Not arresting Polanski after recieving specific details from the americans would constitute a grave breach of the 1997 treaty.

And Ghaddafi is irreleveant for this case - there was no international warrant on Ghaddaffi, he beat up his servants in a Swiss hotel and they figured they won't take shit from him in Switzerland since there are laws here so they called the cops. We didn't arrest Ghaddaffi out of a political move, in fact, politically it was a disastrous move, and it was condemned by politicians. But that's Switzerland, politicians have no say over specific police actions, and they certaintly can't give someone a call and have them arrested or released. So Ghaddafi is more of a case against the theory that the Polanski thing is rigged.

[dogknob]

19. Nice work.

Personally, I couldn't care less about Polanski. The last films of his I actually liked were Rosemary, Macbeth and Chinatown.

As far as "extremely cooperative" goes, it is nearly impossible to prove a case of selective law enforcement and not be labeled a "conspiracy theorist."

The divisive distraction this "incident" provides is a tool for our right-wing-dominated media to use in their efforts marginalize progressives here in the U.S. Unlike wherever Democracyinkind lives in Europe, bullshit and irrelevant distractions are staple foods here.

Probably the reason DK scoffed at this initially. If allowed to serve the purpose the Cons intend here in the U.S., the Polanski affair will serve as another reason for the rest of the world to laugh at us.

"Ha ha... they almost got their culture into the 21st century, but they stopped to watch 'OJ - Part Deux'"

[Democracyinkind]

21. My initial hesitation had to do with plausibility. Now that it's clear that the US started this

it is more probable to look at it from this angle.

As I posted above: Someone should check WHO in the US provided the Swiss authorities with the flight data. Whoever that was, might have had sinister motives. Indeed, he could have selectively let Polanski be trapped this weekend. This is plausible beacause now we are not talking about a grand conspiracy involving several layers, but just about the right person(s) in the right place at the right time.

[dogknob]

23. Who?

John Dean, after 35 years, finally presented hard proof of what Nixon wanted from the Watergate break-in... and it turned out to be what everyone suspected, DIRT! By the time this Polanski thing is over, whatever damage is meant to be done will be done.

[Democracyinkind]

25. See, I never bought that Nixon ordered Watergate. at least not in the way it was finally carried out

So point taken: History is never written deifinitly. Couldn't agree more.

Oh. and come visit Switzerland - it's a nice place, despite the bending over and all.

[Ghost Dog]

26. It's a beautiful place,

and an object-lesson in true participatory democracy. :thumbsup:

[Democracyinkind]

27. and a true lesson in the limits of democracy :-)

good and bad is always just a step away from each other.

[dogknob]

28. Agreed.

I'm going to bed. I'd love to visit Switzerland. The only place I've been to in Europe is Denmark.

Thanks for turning a potential flame war into a lively, intelligent discussion.

[Democracyinkind]

29. Ok., sleep well - thanks to you too. Anytime you're here, let me know :-)

I was expecting a flame war too, so this has been a healthy experience for me too. thanks.

It's time for Trollenberg Terror now... I'll write you when I've seen it ..

[rve300]

7. Yes, the Swiss have a long history of bending over.

I would love to see a source for all of this. Please put a name to "they".

[dogknob]

10. I have no access to Swiss banking records

I feel fairly safe in assuming that none of us do. The Cons are trying to work pedophilia into the national debate because getting people to bring guns to Presidential speeches isn't enough.

[Democracyinkind]

12. the Cons don't have any say in Switzerland. The people do.

That is, for 99% percent of things.

I really don't wanna claim superior knowledge but being familiar with the Swiss system of policing/prosecution it is rather hard to imagine where the Cons could have stepped into this one.