Date Rape Drugs, Is there Really Such A Thing?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

DU has left me confused and now I'm not so sure.

What if the victim, out of a sense of shame or whatever, elects to not press charges? Should drug-induced--even alcohol induced--date rape be prosecuted?

[slackmaster]

1. Yes, there is a very popular one that has been used for thousands of years

It's called alcohol.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

2. Yes, but if a woman is plied with alcohol to the point of incoherence does that allow...

... any male in the room to have free legal rein to sex with her?

[slackmaster]

4. No

Of course not.

[Orrex]

7. Of course. If she's drunk beyond the ability to speak, then that must qualify as informed consent.

I understand that there area apparently some at DU who think that drunkenness implies consent, but these people are stupid and wrong.

[Beer on a stick]

10. Could you please rephrase that question? It's.....

to over-the-top stupid for me to consider as it's currently worded.

[seabeyond]

14. maybe for you. and good on that. unfortunately, recently, there was a movie with a girl

so drunk unconscious. a guy is fucking her. at one point he realizes she is out cold. he starts talking to her, and she slurs.... whyya stoppin.... and passes out again

he continues on fucking her

unconscious

and that is ohhhh so funny. there were those on du that said it wasnt rape

she gave her consent

[Beer on a stick]

16. People who base hold legal opinion based on movies are, well.....

beyond the point of help from people who don't.

[seabeyond]

18. it was a discussion. giving opinion. that is all.

people that make up arguments well..... are a waste of time?

[LisaL]

19. Oh for crying out loud.

How can you base anything on a movie clip?
It's ridiculous.

[seabeyond]

21. who is basing shit on shit. a discussion. opinions, thoughts. wtf. nt

[Odin2005]

36. That was a disgusting thread.

:puke:

[Hepburn]

38. +1....n/t

[seabeyond]

12. at what point does courts decide too much? i would hope this would be soemthing we teach sons

to have the integrity and character to not use another person in this manner. for it to be considered a society norm that we are better than that.

instead of promoting fuck them any way you can

[rd_kent]

29. No, of course not.

But what if she plies HERSELF with alcohol to the point of incoherence and a man in the same state of incoherence has sex with her?

[seabeyond]

32. then you know.... sheeeeit happens. lesson learned. i have never understood

how we can point a finger at a guy as drunk as the gal adn say he is the one responsible.

but i guess it may bottom line to

a girl has to own up allowing herself so shit faced she has no control
a guy has to own up to repercussions of being so shit faced he has no control

so be it the girl raped or the guy prosecuted, it might behoove youth to think about getting so shit faced

we say they are old enough for responsibility of drinking, driving, sex. then there that responsibility sits

[LisaL]

3. It will not be prosecuted if she doesn't go to the police

in first place.

[Brickbat]

5. I can't tell if you're being sarcastic, rhetorical, or serious, so I'm going to answer this straight

-up. Yes, if a prosecutor thinks there's a case, charges should be brought. Rape is a crime not only against the victim, but against society. And the justice system is about justice, not about the victim.

[beyurslf]

6. Yes. GHB.

[Beer on a stick]

8. Rohypnol, GHB, Ketamine, etc... Yes, Virginia, there really are DR drugs

W/out the cooperation of the victim, it's practically impossible to pursue charges, but you're seriously asking if rape should be fucking prosecuted?

WTF?

[LisaL]

9. Unless the accused pleads guilty.

[Beer on a stick]

11. Yes, but that's a HOADC.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

15. On the contrary I think rape should be prosecuted...vigorously

But many--not all, maybe even a minority but still many--seem to think that drugging a female and then having sex with her when she is unable to consent is somehow *shudders* OK.

I'm not very old but I've read that how in olden days a woman that got drunk and was raped was considered to have been "asking for it" and I'm not sure if the world has suddenly time-warped back into a darker age.

[Beer on a stick]

17. Why are you 'not sure' if we've warped back to such a time?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

20. Call it incredulity.

I see it. I can't believe it but I know what I'm seeing.

It's very distressing. Women have had to fight very long and difficult roads to not be treated as the sexual chattel of men. Yet, this forum is awash in people seeking to minimize the drugging and sodomizing rape of a minor child while forgetting that the larger context.

It seems as if the revolution has become merely revolting.

If Polanski was a Wallstreet broker we'd be howling that his wealth should not be counted as a boon to his defense.

If Polanski was a priest we'd be screaming that he should not be allowed to hide behind his (s)institution.

But because he is a well-monied brute hiding behind the institutions of art far too many forget that a crime against WOMEN has been perpetrated. Not just any crime but a VIOLENT crime.

[seabeyond]

27. i have watched it escalate the last decade. clearly for us all to see.

this is not an all of a sudden event.

[seabeyond]

26. it has time warped. we can get a handle on it. or it can feed on itself and grow

to the detriment of all.

it is not to any genders advantage.

[CBGLuthier]

13. If you are REALLY that confused

It says more about you than DU.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

22. I cannot, for a moment, consider...

...that the founders of this forum would act as apologists for the drugging and forced sodomy of anyone of any gender at any age.

In fact, I believe if they ever became aware of such a thing they would notify the proper authorities. Yet, so many seem willing to excuse such behavior and so I am confused as to who are the misplaced individuals here.

[JonQ]

23. Depends, is the person an artist,

or merely a commoner?

[Nuclear Unicorn]

24. EXACTLY!

Far too many people seem content to sacrifice women and children on the altar of art and/or correct politics.

In an effort to achieve a classless society we have bred a society without class.

[nolabear]

25. Not only is there such a thing, but they leave worse scars

emotionally than if the victim had been aware of what was going on (within boundaries, of course. Rape is always traumatic and physical harm heightens the trauma). I've seen clients who have been date raped. Not only is there doubt as to what happened but guilt over having been duped, gotten drunk, been in such a situation, etc. For the victim it's often easier to know what happened and to know what DIDN'T happen. Giving someone a drug or taking advantage of them as simply an object for sexual or aggressive gratification is unconscionable, in my opinion.

[Ms. Toad]

31. Absolutely true

and, although not relevant to this particular question - but along similar lines, I have worked with women who were the victims of an interrupted rape who are far less emotionally healthy afterward than those who survived a completed rape. Those whose rape was completed aren't left to imagine what might have happened (or what might happen the next time) if there had been no interruption.

[rd_kent]

28. Very situational......

two people that willingly use booze or drugs and intoxicate themselves to the point of no self-control, no.

But one person that is sober or slips a drug into someones drink without their knowledge, yes.

[Orsino]

30. How badly do you want a rapist to remain free and/or untreated? n/t

[JesmanVA]

33. It's very situational.

Is it not?

[cherokeeprogressive]

34. Alcohol and Quaaludes worked for Planski. Worked so good in fact, he had a 13 year old's ASS.

I don't think she would have been anxiously awaiting having his cock in her ass, at 13 years old, if it weren't for drugs and alcohol. Do You??

I'm not confused at all. Plying females (I had originally typed WOMEN but Polanski's victim doesn't fit that term) with alcohol and drugs isn't anything new. The only thing that's changed is the drug of choice.

I remember when MJ was accused of plying his little boys with "Jesus Juice", that in California using alcohol or drugs to diddle a minor, or just fuck 'em in the ass, could get ya life without parole if convicted.

Here, read about Polanski's victim's ordeal in her own words... start at line 15.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/polanskib14.html

[Odin2005]

35. WTF, there are posters saying there is no such thing as date rape drugs?

:crazy:

[Brooklyns_Finest]

37. Consent

Why do people always assume that in these cases there is a drunk woman and a sober man involved? In my experience, back in college, many casual hook ups happened at some stupid party where both people are drunk.

I have had the occasion (once or twice), where I woke to someone I assumed I had sex with (okay, I know I did), and regretted it. If I was sober I know I never would have done her. Yet, I do not feel as if I was violated. Well, I did feel ashamed of myself and a little violated, but i should have never put myself in that situation.

I agree, if one party is sober and the other is drunk, then it might just be a sexual assault. However, I think it rarely goes that way.

Flame me if you like.....

[Buck Feck]

39. The OP is a Guy!

I'll wager money on it! Asswipe!