ALL SOUTHERNERS: LBJ, MLK, John Lewis, Rosa Parks, Andrew Young, Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton&Al Gore

[ddeclue]

For those who are geographic bigots towards the South let me point out the following to you:

1) People MOVE. The people who live in the South today are NOT same exact set of people who live here today that lived in the South 50, 100, or even 150 years ago. That simply isn't so. There has been a huge migration of Northerners to the South and of Southerner to the North and of people moving around in general. Your post is ignorant for this reason alone.

In Orange County Florida for instance, more than half of the currently registered voters today were NOT registered to vote here as recently as the 2000 Gore Bush election. Try to find a "native" Atlantan. :rofl:

2) YES the South had slavery and segregation but the South gave us not ONLY slavery and segregation but the heroes that ended them:

a) Abraham Lincoln was a Kentuckian by birth,

b)Martin Luther King Jr. was from Atlanta Georgia as were
most of the leaders of the SCLC which lead the Civil Rights movement - John Lewis, Andrew Young, and Ralph David Abernathy were all Southerners.

c) Rosa Parks was a Southerner.

d) Lyndon Baines Johnson who through sheer force of will pushed through the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1965 - was a Southerner and a Texan.

While we are on the topic - the North was also complicit in slavery in that Northern ships hauled Southern slaves and Southern cotton and tobacco and Northern mills weaved Southern cotton into textiles to ship around the world. Lincoln came to understand this point if you've read the Gettysberg Address or his Second Inaugural. Slavery and Segregation are AMERICAN sins, not merely "Southern" sins.

3) The South has given us three ot the last four Democratic Presidents: Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton and Al Gore, Jr. ( :P )

4) Your complaining about "God" as though it were only a "Southern" phoenomena is ridiculous - Apparently you missed the Irish Catholic funeral mass of one Edward Moore Kennedy recently. A lot of people believe in God and they aren't limited to the South.

5) FYI: While you are "God bashing" - I would point you to men like Martin Luther King, Jr. and James Earl Carter - one of whom was a minister, the other is a deacon in his church. I'd say they did some pretty good things despite being "handicapped by religion".

6) Holding the current residents of the South responsible for things that they had no hand in and were not responsible for (Jim Crow laws) just shows you to be prejudiced and ignorant.

Grow up and stop smearing us all with your overly broad and bigoted brush.

"There is no Negro problem. There is no Southern problem. There is no Northern problem. There is only an American problem." - Lyndon Baines Johnson, 36th President of the United States, 15th of March, 1965

[BlooInBloo]

1. True - there have most definitely been a number of wonderful southerners....

Now if only we could get that to be the *average*.

[Fire1]

25. Ditto. n/t

[Hosnon]

61. Yes, Bloo, your bigotry against the South is well-known. nt.

[BolivarianHero]

2. You're missing a lot of the good stuff...

Ann Richards
Jim Hightower
Ralph Yarborough

A lot more for progressives to brag about than the neo-liberal DLClintons.

[Are_grits_groceries]

13. Add Judge Frank M. Johnson Jr. nt

[jmondine]

56. Let's not forget Bill Moyers

[jmondine]

57. Also Willie Nelson and the Dixie Chicks

[jmondine]

58. And Louis Armstrong

[Dawgs]

3. Don't forget about the millions of other Democrats, like me, that live in the South.

We're not all bad. :hi:

[CurtEastPoint]

12. And like me, too! We're here! n/t

[Lars39]

4. There was one more migration pattern....

after WWII there weren't many jobs in the south, so a whole slew went north. They lived there 20 or so years and then came back...usually with their minds broadened quite a bit, too.

[supernova]

7. We also now have significant Spanish-speaking populations

That definitely didn't exist 20, 30 years ago, even. It's definitely changing the racial/ethnic dynamics.

[proteus_lives]

5. Great Post!

Fuck all the region bashers and state haters! There is good and bad to every place.

[supernova]

6. A lot of us progressives live here

rather than migrate to more liberal climes because:

1) Hey, they're family. We love them and want to be near them even if they make us crazy over politics. :P

2) We have a genuine desire to lift the livability, and quality of life in our home stomping grounds.

3) We really enjoy such pastimes as watching the seasons, being in tune with the rythmns of nature. And know both how to rig up my laptop to my TV to watch movies, and how to make home made preserves.

[Raffi Ella]

8. Hear Hear!

This born and bred Southern Democrat thanks you for the post :toast:

[SIMPLYB1980]

9. I'm glad you made this a post on its own.

:toast:

[Oregone]

10. Per capita, it would seem the region produces more horses' asses

[jesus_of_suburbia]

11. Some people think the south in 2009 is like "Gone With the Wind".

Great post, K&R!

[mamaleah]

14. I am not from the South, but thank you!

I have some family deep in Georgia and it is truly beautiful there. I'd move in a heartbeat to there.

Thank you also for this: I'd say they did some pretty good things despite being "handicapped by religion".

I do not know what is stronger around here.....hate for the south or hate for religion.

[DCofVA]

15. My favorite President, Thomas Jefferson, was from my state, Virginia

I consider him to be the first liberal President.
But, as far as Florida goes; I've never thought of it as a part of the South.

[liberaltrucker]

16. Having recently relocated to PA from AL, I can say

that James Carville was right. Politically, Pennsylvania is Pittsburgh
and Philadelphia, with Alabama in between. Not denigrating to either
State, just a fact. I have, however, taught my SO how to cook collard greens!

:)

[Chulanowa]

17. A few points...

The people who live in the South today are NOT same exact set of people who live here today that lived in the South 50, 100, or even 150 years ago.

It was a mere decade ago that I was in school in the south. While you're right, it's not the same people, fact is the same history is taught. I dunno about other states, but Alabama still teaches its students that Antebellum days were fair and something to be cherished, that the Civil War was "Tha Wo-ah uv Nuthurn Uh-greshun," that Reconstruction failed due to blacks being incompetent, and that the Ku Klux Klan was mainly interested in going after white "carpetbaggers" and "scalawags" - terms that I am certain are still in use in the curriculum. The result is the same - a sense of southern exceptionalism, northern "unfairness" and a longing for the golden age when black people were only allowed to say "Yassuh massa suh!"

Now not all southerners buy into this, of course, this is still the product that's being sold, and enough people do buy it, or parts of it to be a problem. Enough that "The Southern Strategy" is remaining viable and productive for Republicans, in spite of all the decent people living there. And the thing is... It's current residents of the south who keep sending these racist, ignorant Southerners to Washington, electing bigoted, stupid politicians to head their own states, and filling up local committees and schoolboards with pearl-clutching, vapor-catching fundamentalists.

of course not all southerners are bad - I'm one (living in Washington now, though) and all my relatives are as well. However it's pretty damn obvious that all the "good" people are busy picking their toenails or something, because there's something rotten in the state of Dixie.

[ddeclue]

19. Another anecdote heard from... you don't get to generalize about an entire region

based on your little slice of experience.

Your post is simply ignorant of larger truth.

[Chulanowa]

24. Actually, no

The way Alabama works is that its textbooks and curriculum are state-wide. That is, the shitty textbook I was being taught from in 1999 that portrayed the KKK as valiant heroes defending the south, was in use in every public High school in the state. If i understand correctly, Mississippi and Texas both use the same statewide textbook system.

Anecdotal would be me basing my post off the time I spent in a mixed Korean / Guatamalan neighborhood in Atlanta in 2003.

Anecdotal would be me saying, for example, "I think LBJ was a great guy, so everyone in the south is above criticism" - Well, no, actually that would just be STUPID, not anecdotal. My bad.

[ddeclue]

26. No you are judging everyone in the South based on your personal experience= anecdotal.

[Chulanowa]

32. How desperate are you to be vindicated?

As I pointed out three times, I'm quite certain there are plenty of decent people in the south. I'm also certain I'm related to at least a few of them. I cast no judgement on people as a whole, I just point out two things.

One, the educational systems in at least one state - and very possibly others - seems very biased against people who aren't ignorant troglodytes, and seems to encourage that sort of mentality from an early age.

Two, despite there being plenty of intelligent, decent people in the south, ignorant bigoted dumbfuckistani politicians keep on getting elected. There's three possible explanations for this.
1) The good, decent, intelligent people elect Dumbfuckistanis as the "lesser of two evils"
2) the good, decent, intelligent people are painfully outnumbered and outvoted
3) The good, decent, intelligent people are in the majority but don't vote

You can scream and wail all you want, but I think you'll have a hard time making a case that education in most southern states is top-notch, or that the region is famous for all of its amazingly thoughtful and progressive politicians.

This isn't a judgment of the people - I have no idea what the cause of these conditions is - but the conditions are pretty damn clear.

[ddeclue]

48. You are the one who is in need of "vindication"

You are taking one example and generalizing all things "Southern" from it.

Nothing could be more ignorant and narrow minded.

:eyes:

[LanternWaste]

31. Could you cite the text book?

Could you cite the text book? I'd like to take a look at it.

[Chulanowa]

34. I wish. I've been trying to find it for months now

Ever since I picked up "Lies My Teachers Told Me," I've been trying to find the damned thing. Google's not been too helpful. I search for textbooks in Alabama and what I get is several stories about hte bible study textbook that got approved a while back

[newblewtoo]

68. I thought some of your previous

argument looked familiar. I recently started reading the 2007 version of "Lies My Teacher Told Me" by James W. Loewen. He presents some interesting cases. I will have to re-read the entire thing just to go through all the footnotes.

For a more complete look at Johnson I would recommend Doris Kern Goodwin's biography. After reading that book I began to think of him as "Texas Crude".

[Dappleganger]

45. +2

[jesus_of_suburbia]

22. Textbooks in AL call the Civil War "The War of Northern Agression" ........ Are you sure?

Are you sure about that?

I can't imagine that.

[Chulanowa]

27. "As it is called by some..." to be specific

It's been ten damn years and I mostly spent the time drawing up Magic decks. :rofl:

Also? George Wallace blocked the school doors because he was a firm believer in keeping the federal government out of the state! True story! *cough cough*

[ddeclue]

28. And Lyndon Johnson invited him to the White House and summarily spanked his ass.

I guess you ought to learn more about the 1960's before you spout off.

[Chulanowa]

35. Ah, your point?

I'm perfectly aware of what went on with that mook, ddeclue. I simply figure the comment was obvious enough that I didn't need to include the :sarcasm: tag.

Apparently not.

[ddeclue]

47. MY POINT: A Southerner was the one to fix Wallace's little red wagon.

:eyes:

[Chulanowa]

65. Texas is not the South

Sorry. The South stops in Western Louisiana. On a generous day Arkansas can come play with the South. But Texas has to hang out with Oklahoma.

[appamado amata padam]

18. As a Southerner who moved up North, I have to agree with

the points in this post. I've seen parts of New Jersey that look like Mississippi. Each different community has its own positives and negatives, which often may be perpetuated (or reversed) by only 51 percent of the voting population, and this population can change pretty quickly.

Some bashing of states may be taken in jest, but when people get serious about it, that is just dumb and counterproductive. To depict an entire state under one stereotype is often just a cheap and convenient attempt to compensate for the weaknessses in one's own arguments.

[BlooInBloo]

29. The difference is: that's *average* for MS, while it's *exceptional* for NJ.

[appamado amata padam]

43. I'll try to phrase my point differently -

For some reasons I'd rather live in NJ; for others I'd prefer MS. I did not allude to any specific "it" or "that" that is average or exceptional. It might be something good, like quiet two-lane highways shaded by great leafy trees, or something bad, like generations of families chained to grinding poverty. My point is that no state is simple enough to be judged strictly by the average.

There are progressive groups that are working in deep red Southern areas. Often they do not get much publicity, because they don't get much coverage from local media, and their stories don't get amplified to the national level.

I live in New York City, where there is a sizeable population of immigrants from all over the world. My impression is that while yes, on average, the South may be lagging behind in ways that are familiar to us, human failings are just part of the equation, wherever people may be from. Those in deep-blue states may congratulate themselves on how great they are, but they would be avoiding the big picture.

[Omar4Dems]

39. "I've seen parts of New Jersey that look like Mississippi."

Cotton fields? :shrug:

[Chulanowa]

40. Well, the Pine Barrens do closely resemble large stretches of the Gulf Coast...

But I kinda doubt that was his point.

[Dappleganger]

46. Not only that, but in many areas there is class warfare

that otherwise in the south bears out as racism too. Let's face, bigotry of ALL kinds SUCKS.

[CherokeeDem]

20. Another Democrat from the South Here!

And not even a Dixiecrat! Thanks for the quote from Lyndon Johnson, spot on. Honestly, in the words of Rodney King..."Why can't we all get along?"

I suppose that bashing a group of people or a region of the US or the world serves to make the basher feel superior. Somebody needs some self-esteem.

[tXr]

21. Bashing of any kind is unacceptable and counterproductive.

[depakid]

23. Yep- the South's a real bastion of progeressivism

and has been at the forefront of every positive movement to improve Americans' lives throughout history....

[Warren DeMontague]

30. And don't forget these guys:

Oh, and Mike Mills is an Atheist, too.

[supernova]

33. Or these guys

[Omar4Dems]

36. Anyone who hates the South has never had REAL pecan pie

or REAL ice tea! :9

[Chulanowa]

38. As if

It's all about the blue crab. I keep telling people, "The South" doesn't start until you hit Montgomery, and there is no "deep south" until your toes are touching salt water.

[Burma Jones]

37. You make some points

However, looking at current statistics regarding educational attainment, the South performs very badly. Maybe as even more Northerners move South, things will get better.

Perhaps these regional differences will disappear.........and what many of us hope is that the country will look more like Vermont than Alabama........

[ddeclue]

53. On the other hand, most of NASA's major centers are located in the South

as well as many top tier universities:

NASA JSC
NASA KSC
NASA Marshall
NASA Stennis
NASA Langley

Georgia Tech
Duke
Emory

come immediately to mind.

That said, this is not the point of the person who posted they were a "South Basher" - they weren't singling out education, they were labeling all Southerners as "racists".

[Burma Jones]

59. Well, labeling all southerners as racist is damnedably stupid.......

My Mom, born in Indiana, worked for years at NASA JSC

My Dad, also born in Indiana, picked up his Masters at UNC Chapel Hill and his Doctorate at Tulane.

My youngest brothers, twins, were raised in Wilmington, NC, one went to NYU for film, the other to UNC Chapel Hill for biology. They both live in Brooklyn and are doing quite well in their respective fields.......

Of course, I detest Duke, but that's just from having lived on the UNC Chapel Hill campus as a kid.....:)


Now, excuse me, I'm making Burgoo and Cornbread for Dinner........

[AspenRose]

41. With regards to the post this is referring to

I do not believe the poster in question was intending to smear ALL southerners. I do believe his ire was NOT directed at those who would have been victimized by the institutions of slavery and Jim Crow, but rather at those who would have advocated for a continuation of it.

So I don't think the southern Civil Rights leaders you listed above would have been included in that person's "broad brush" statement.

You can ask him for yourself, though.

Take a deep breath and realize that there will be some you will never be able to convince, for whatever reason.

And should you decide in blind rage to take a swipe at me, too: I was raised in Texas, my family is from Texas. And as a woman of color, I probably see a different side of the south than you do, and personally couldn't get out of Texas fast enough. That said, however, I believe the most in-your-face racism I've ever encountered personally was in Indiana.

[BlooInBloo]

42. Of course it isn't smearing *all* southerners. But by pretending it *is*...

They get to get their outrage on.

No different from "Obama hates white people".

[ddeclue]

50. OP Title "I will admit it.. I am a South Basher" - pretty much covers everything Southern.

:eyes:

[BlooInBloo]

52. No it doesn't. That's why the word "all" and its relatives exist.

[ddeclue]

55. YES it does Bloo and you can get over your bias.

They post was broad brush and you know it.

I could point out there is also the word "some" which the poster failed to use.

[Hosnon]

60. In many contexts, "all" is implied.

Example: "I hate fish!"

If I hear something along that line, I assume they mean "all" unless otherwise stated. After all, that's why we have the word "some" and its relatives.

ETA: My post is as tangential as they come. I haven't even thought about the particular instance discussed in this thread.

[AspenRose]

62. Go ask him what he meant.

I did.

[backwoodsbob]

51. Californians passed prop 8

of course thats not to pass judgment on ALL californians

[BlooInBloo]

54. Dogs have 4 legs...

Doesn't preclude the existence of some 3 legged dog out there (poor puppy!).

[ddeclue]

49. No he was pretty explicit that he hated all things "Southern".

[Dappleganger]

44. K&R

Generalizations suck, especially in this day and age when people move where the jobs are located.

[Odin2005]

63. That is exactly why South-bashing is stupid.

[Number23]

64. Kicked and Rec'd

[Jetboy]

66. The South has a lot of great music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taZ22C1NVdA

And great food too!

[Daphne08]

67. I presently live in California, but I was born in the South.

I lived most of my life there, and I can't wait to move back.

I miss my home and my family.

Is there yet another thread slamming the South on DU? I've seen too many over the years.