I'm so mad I'll never support another Dem---Really?

[Robyn66]

I have been noticing the Republican talking heads are all excited about 2010. They think that there is going to be another "Republican Revolution" and the Democrats will LOSE BIG and they will be well on the way to getting congress back.

I would love to sit back and enjoy how delusional they are, because what person with a brain could vote for a Republican? THey have aligned themselves with the tea-baggers and town hall disrupter's, not to mention the gun nuts. Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh are their spokes people and they become more outrageous and revolting every day, so WHO in their right mind would vote for them?

And then I watch yesterday's Health Care hearing and watch the Democrats allow Grassley get away with quoting the Heritage Foundation and Lewan(sp) group "statistics" and making other outrageous statements without jumping on him. And it makes me very angry.

I have become extremely frustrated with the apparent lack of spine the Democrats have shown on Health Care (as well as other issues) and their not just standing up to the bullies that are the Republican Party.

But in spite of that, will I no longer support the Democratic Party? Will I stop voting for Democrats even if they are pissing me off.

The answer is a simple "no"

Oh, I will haunt my congress people with letters and phone calls and make sure my voice is heard but I will always vote Democratic because we lived through 8 years of the alternative.

I am sure I will get plenty of abuse for saying I will be in "lock step" with my party but after 8 years of George W Bush and almost 8 years with both houses under Republican control, I think we all should have learned our lesson.

I wonder what kind of world we would be living in right now if Al Gore were president in 2000? If people put their country over their own personal ideology and there was no question of who won?

I wish people would understand that this is bigger than they are. Become an activist for your cause but don't allow this country to back slide into Republican darkness because your are going to take your ball and go home. I really hope when it comes down to it, people won't stay home and will vote Democratic because the consequences are just unthinkable if they do!

[sinkingfeeling]

1. I will do everything in my power to see the Democrats retain control of the country's

agenda.

[Tippy]

7. So will I...

Why so quick to throw the baby out with the bath water? It makes me so angry when people jump the gun and post nonsense...You want the likes of the birthers running thei country..I SURE DO"T

[unpossibles]

11. agreed! I'd like to think that anyone who lived through the Bush years

has come to face that the "worse of two evils" can be really, really awful! I'm not calling Gore evil, btw, just stating that everyone was mad at the Dems and was saying that Gore was no better than Bush, etc. I'd like to think that anyone with a brain soon realized that Bush was in fact so much worse, that it made me register as a Dem and drop my long-held Independent status (even though I had fairly consistently voted Democratically since I was 18).

There are SO many issues at stake and which illustrate the large differences between the two parties that it's hard to imagine anyone buying into the "they're all the same" bullshit, especially since it's the mantra of the Republicans/"Libertarians" right now who wish to distance themselves from their own toxic policies!

[Robyn66]

39. Thank you!

I hope that is the majority opinion!

[Xenotime]

30. As will I. Any other path is unacceptable.

[Robyn66]

41. The worst part about the Dems in my opinion

is they just don't know how to fight as dirty as the Repubs, their minds just don't work that way. Maybe its becasue most of them have too much respect for their fellow man to pull the dirty stunts. But maybe I am just an idealist!

[bdamomma]

53. so will I, after the bush regime who wants to see repigs regain power again

they do not care about the American people, if they are not putting anything forward, greedy bastards that they are!!

Plus does anyone want to see the rich getting richer, and tax cuts made permanent.

[Barack_America]

2. People are angry at Dems for acting like Republicans.

I don't see why this should give Republicans cause for celebration. Other than decreased voter turnout, that is.

[el_bryanto]

3. Decreased Voter Turnout is something for Republicans to Cheer about

The more people vote the harder time they have.

Bryant

[joeybee12]

62. Why else is voter suppression their top priority?

Democracy is not their friend.

[Hannah Bell]

4. besides the fact the dem president is well-spoken & has cute kids, how much different is it?

serious question.

we're still in iraq & afghanistan, & escalating.
economic situation: still bad, & nothing in the immediate future looking to change that.
healthcare bill being designed by pub central.
still making war noises at iran.

[cali]

8. It's different. Just the appointment of Sotomayor, to name but one thing

that's very different. Not to mention the far, far less belligerent foreign policy toward Iran and other nations. But hey, if the only thing you ever read is the idiot propagandist rag, wsw, no wonder you think Barack Obama is no different from bushco.

[Romulox]

12. Huh? "far, far less belligerent foreign policy toward Iran..." !?!?!

:shrug:

[cali]

14. yes. a far less belligerent foreign policy as regards Iran.

[Romulox]

17. That's funny, because in MY version of reality, Obama is ramping up tension against Iran

in the UN Security Council, backstopped by a barely veiled threat to set loose the Israelis. :shrug:

[cali]

18. that's because you haven't been paying attention

and there was no "barely veiled threat to set loose the Israelis". Obama's administration has reached out to Iran and pushed the idea of dialogue. The language employed by the Obama administration is quite different than that used by bushco.

[Romulox]

20. If I can quote you: "Bwahahahahahah"

:eyes:

[ShortnFiery]

10. Renditions and secrecy continues unabated along with drone-type summary executions

within other soverign Muslim countries.

Yeah, they hate us for our freedoms. :crazy:

[Ineeda]

5. Well said. I'm with you. n/t

[TreasonousBastard]

6. Idealists kill me. We gotta have 'em, and the rest of us share...

a lot of their thoughts, but when it comes down to action they'll fuck it up every time.

Dealing with husbands, wives, kids, parents, neighbors, co-workers, bosses, employees, salesmen, customers, strangers in a line... Everything in life is compromise, and even then sometimes you lose. And don't get mr started about how irrational some people can be even if you try to deal with them.

But, somehow, electing a few more Democrats and we no longer compromise? We refuse to accept reality? We actually expect a Senator facing a difficult re-election to do what WE think is the right thing even if most of her state disagrees? We refuse to believe another Senator is serious when he asks questions about costs?

It must be nice to live a simple life where all questions have true or false answers and all decisions have only one possible choice.

[Hannah Bell]

23. "most of her state disagrees" = political cover.

[kctim]

54. Yep. Dems are now the ones calling for everybody to get in lockstep

[Robyn66]

56. Its not about being in lockstep

its about looking past your own personal feelings to keep Birthers and Tea baggers from being elected. Work against blue dogs to get progressive Dem's elected. Maybe its about the lesser of two evils when the evil is truly EVIL. Maybe you could live with yourself by abdicating the responsibility but I couldn't.

[kctim]

58. I was responding to TB

The reality is that Dems must work together.

I also agree with you that people are silly for saying they won't vote Democratic again simply because of the blue-dogs. I'm a moderate, so of course I realize the birthers are a VERY small fringe and mean nothing, and there is no way in hell I am going to work against a moderate Dem to get a progressive elected. So tell me why, if I am constantly told by progressives to either agree with them and do what THEY want or leave the party, why isn't that being told to be in lockstep? Sounds alot like the 'you are either with us or against' line the Dems used against Reps to label them as locksteppers.

WHAT is evil and WHO is evil varies from person to person and the ONLY way I would be abdicating any responsibility would be for me to vote based on your fears instead of MY reality.

[Robyn66]

65. I want to apoligize

for saying if "you want to abdigate responsibility" I didn't mean YOU specifically, I meant "you" in the broad sense.

[ShortnFiery]

9. Wake up and smell the truth of our corporate duopoly.

Sure, one is kinder and gentler ... but the end result is still the same - feed the Corporations! :grr:

[Echo In Light]

15. True. And I fear another False Flag to help 'coax' the public back to embracing the Right

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. “Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone.....

“Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, you may cherish the sweetest reflection that your vote is never lost." --John Quincy Adams

I have no problem voting 3rd party when the Democrats pursue Republican policies for political gain. The "not as bad", "lesser of two evils", argument is what keeps us stuck in a corrupt system.

[Silent3]

31. How often has voting for a 3rd party gotten us out...

...of a corrupt system? Can't think of much of anything since the rise of the Republican party and the fall of the Whigs back when Lincoln was elected.

I wouldn't say never, ever vote third party, but your radiant, upright inner sense of conviction simply doesn't translate into real-world results most of the time. People voting for Nader in 2000 led to eight years of Bush, and led to Democrats who have decided to lean right to grab some of the roughly 50% of the electorate who voted for Bush, not to Democrats who have leaned to the left to pluck off a few voters from the 1-2% who voted for Nader.

The message you think you're sending with your vote will seldom be received with the intent you invest in it. Voting is best when it's calculated and strategic, not when it's an expression of wild-eyed idealism. No, there aren't a bunch of people out there waiting for you to make the first move so they'll feel more comfortable in this election or the next to vote the way you did.

For third party candidates to be successful, you need not only very widespread, very deep dissatisfaction with the two major parties, you need that dissatisfaction to be united, not fragmented. There's at least as much right wing discontent (and it sure is noisy!) as there is left wing discontent at the moment, so we're nowhere near ideal conditions for voting for Greens or other more progressive independents to be very successful, either in the short term or for some imagined long-term benefit when "the bastards" get "your message".

Now, if what you want out of voting is to feel smugly self-righteous while the world goes to hell around you, so at least you can say it wasn't your fault... well, that's different.

[Hannah Bell]

34. Dems are in power & The world's still going to hell. So why give them money to send it to hell?

Maybe if the mom & pop donation spigot turned off, they might pay some attention.

Hope springs eternal, anyway.

[Silent3]

42. Because we're at least going to hell more slowly...

...than if Republicans had won the last election.

[Hannah Bell]

44. i don't think so, actually. i think it's full speed ahead. i don't see one bush policy direction

that isn't still being implemented.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

35. I'm not sending a "message" with my vote.

I'm voting for what I believe in. Politicians aren't entitled to my, or anyone's vote because they belong to a particular party. They have to earn votes by their deeds and principles.

Because the system we have is corrupt doesn't mean that I have to participate in it and, therefore, perpetuate it.

Speaking of "real life" did your single vote change the results of any election you voted in?

[Silent3]

40. Of course no one is "entitled" to anyone's vote.

Who said anything about entitlement?

And as for "single votes", single votes obviously seldom have much impact in and of themselves. But memes about how people vote effect many votes, and as a meme, "voting for what I believe" sure sounds grand and noble, but combine that with the larger effect of other people buying into that meme, with utter disregard for voting as a strategic rather than idealistic act, and you get things like Bush winning in 2000.

Gore was not "entitled" to a single vote that went for Nader. We'd probably have been a lot better off, however, if he got those votes anyway.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

46. I'm not an idealist.

And, I can argue that people buying into "the lesser of two evils", "not as bad", meme is exactly why we have a corrupt system of politicians running a government based "strategic thinking" rather than on principles.

As to Nader voters winning the election for Bush I can argue that Democrats voting for Bush was the deciding factor rather than the Green vote. And, indeed, Gore was not entitled to a single vote and he failed to convince some on the left to vote for him.

[Robyn66]

57. Well that's certainly one way of looking at it

I look at it as a whole group of people who were so preocupied with their personal agenda they decided to throw the country away for it.

What happened to this country and our personal freedoms makes me very angry. I know there are a lot of people who are pissed that Obama hasn't fixed everything in the (a little over) 8 MONTHS he has been president. How quick some are to give up on him.

I WANT IT ALL NOW!!! That is what I hear from a lot of people. Well grow up. It took 8 years to get us here, its going to take a little time to get us out. And if you didn't support the Democratic Party in the previous elections, you can take some of the blame on yourself for where we are today.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

59. Humbug.

What is your personal agenda? Don't you use it when you vote for the Democrats because you think that will help the country?

I am pissed at Obama and I didn't vote for him precisely because I saw him as a "not as bad" moderate who would keep to the status quo for his personal agenda.

I'm not taking the blame for anything. I voted against the corrupt system that has been, still is, and will remain, in place until/if the people, or events, force it to change rather than giving it the biennial rubber stamp.

[Robyn66]

63. My personal agenda?

That is simple. Not seing another George W. Bush elected. Doing everything in my power to have a president who attends security briefings so we don't have another 911, or keep us from going to war for a lie. My personal agenda is NEVER AGAIN!

[Robyn66]

64. There were quite a few "single votes" that changed 2000(nt)

[Robyn66]

52. I agree with you with one small qualification

By voting for a third party candidate based on personal ideology, and allowing... say a George W to be elected in 2000, you may as well be voting Republican. And this may sound harsh but I think they need to accept their part of responsibility for what the Bush administration did for at least the first four years. I'm sorry, I don't mean this in a smug way but I never voted for anyone who was in favor of the war. I think its sad that we had a chance of avoiding 911 and Iraq and we lost it because of a third party candidate. Not a pretty thought but my opinion.

[KharmaTrain]

16. This Issue Should Be Win-Win...

Yep...seems like some wish for their pony and since it hasn't been delivered, they're ready to "show" the rest of us with some battle cry of jumping ship or withholding support. And to what end? So that a self-fulling prophecy of a rushpublican resurgence is fulfilled? To detach completely from the political forefront and weakening the chances of any real reform for years and generations to come? Those who expected the world, especially Washington to automatically change last January, you deserve to be let down...there was too much damage done, too many fires to put out...and an unwieldy political system and establishment that seize upon weakness. To get things done, it takes time and being able to play the game...something that is being designed over 4 and 8 years. There are going to be bumps and not everything will be to one's liking, but its far better than the alternative of a rushpublican administration.

The healthcare issue is already a winner for Democrats if they play it smart. The ultimate win will be President Obama signing a bill with a Public Option that can is sure to be popular and will be a sign of real change and accomplishment. If reform fails then Democrats need to paint those who obstructed..and do it in a bright light. Yes, this includes some "conservodems" or "blue dogs" but the majority needs to be directed at the rushpublicans who offered no alternative and were more than happy to let people die or go bankrupt to protect insurance company profits.

[thunder rising]

19. I might vote for them, if I have the time, but no public option means no Thunder Rising donations

[TexasObserver]

21. Never has Democratic control of the presidency and congress been so wasted.

That's the sad truth. Given the majorities and the victory, it is outrageous that we are so far in a hole right now. Blame has to be laid on Obama, for his lack of leadership. As for Reid and Pelosi, they're both incompetent.

It will be a miracle if we don't lose half of our margin in both houses of congress next year. And Obama has himself and his weak ass ways to blame.

[SeaLyons]

22. Sadly, I totally agree with you..

it's truly hard to believe. :scared:

[Hannah Bell]

24. they're quite competent. they're doing what they're supposed to.

the bidding of their funders.

[TexasObserver]

25. Being bought and being competent as an elected official are mutually exclusive.

When loyally representing their electorate is an element of the job, lacking it is a critical failure.

They may be competent at stealing, or at being bought, but not at representing faithfully their constituents.

[Hannah Bell]

28. loyally representing the electorate has never in US history been an

important element of the job.

only representing a segment of the electorate, the rich & connected segment.

small-town politics mirrors national politics, except in small towns the big shots have to be somewhat nicer to the little shots.

cause they live close by.

[TexasObserver]

29. You're being officious.

Stop assuming you know History better than others here.

[Hannah Bell]

32. so? it's a free country. or....is it?

[timeforpeace]

37. I agree that it's a competence issue. They appear quite incompetent.

[Hannah Bell]

45. incompetent at what? has it occurred to you that the policy they're getting is the policy they want?

[dysfunctional press]

26. sorry- but i'm not buying it.

continuing to participate in this charade of a democracy only prolongs and justifies it.

let the republicans continue to widen the wealth gap, and eventually we'll have a much-needed revolution.

[Robyn66]

66. What kind of revolution is that?

What kind of realistic position is that to take?

So let me understand you. You think its a good idea to either stay home and let a Republican win, who as of now means tea bagger, birther, extreme right winger, anti choice, anti gay rights, pro tax cuts for the wealthy.

In the "hope" that the American people will rise up and revolt? Do you realize what could really happen?

The poor will get poorer
The middle class will disappear
Health care will never be reformed
and that's the least of it.

People will suffer and die. Will it be that extreme at first? Probably not. Maybe it will only be a relatively small segment of the population that will be destroyed before the country wakes up again. But when the next Democratic majority takes over and things are even more screwed up and things aren't solved within the first 6 months the cycle will start again.

I am not saying President Obama is Jesus Christ, maybe he will turn out to be a terrible president. I doubt it, because I think he has done pretty damn well so far. But I am definitely reserving my judgment for at least a year. I think that is only fair.

[frogmarch]

27. I am, and will

always be, a Democrat. I become disheartened from time to time - including now - but I will always vote, and my votes will always go to Democrats.

K&R

[bdamomma]

55. me too, always have voted democratic.

the repigs have shown themselves to be really disrespectful to the American people on numerous times.

[ddeclue]

33. Oh tell your straw man he can bite me.

and I'll be looking Dems to primary these creeps who take are time, money and effort and then ignore us when something important comes along. Hell I might even run for U.S. Senate in 2012 in FL in the Democratic primary just to be a pain in the ass to Senator Nelson and give my fellow Democrats a liberal alternative to kabuki dancin' Bill.

Doug D.

[Javaman]

36. So many people are quick to forget 8 years of stupid*. nt

[timeforpeace]

38. Yes but would he have been stymied with big majorities in both houses?

[Robyn66]

43. Certainly not

And the major frustration is they are not stimied with minorities in both houses! The Dems need to start acting like the majority they are and start steamrolling their agenda through. They also need to get the Blue-dogs in line. One thing the Republicans depend on are the Democrats turning into a circular firing squad.

[BlooInBloo]

47. What we need is more AND better Democrats. One without the other is useless....

That's where getting credible primary challenges comes in.

And electorates that are better than CT's.

[Robyn66]

48. Very true

And who could honestly look themselves in the mirror if they helped a birther get elected? I know I sure as hell couldn't sleep at night.

[BlooInBloo]

50. Yep - we need to figure out a way to keep the "more" part, while improving the "better" part.

[Matariki]

49. And work to elect true progressives in the primaries. n/t

[Name removed]

51. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sebastian Doyle]

60. "what person with a brain could vote for a Republican?"

None, of course.

But all they need are the people without brains, lies and distortions from the corporate whore media, and some help from Diebold/ES&S/Sequoia, etc.

[butterfly77]

61. My senators and congress people are all right but...

others in my state aren't,but angry as I get to see some of the other senators both nelsons. and all who voted against the public option if I were in their states I would have second thoughts and would be working on someone to vote against them.