Martin Luther King Would Have Loved the Teabaggers, Not Called Them Racists

[Omaha Steve]

http://www.truthout.org/100409B

Friday 02 October 2009

by: Mike Elk, t r u t h o u t | Perspective

A few weeks ago, I attended the teabagger protests in DC. The thing I noticed the most about the folks there was that, for the most part, they were friendly, nice, hardworking people. Sure, there were some crazies; sure, there were some racists. For the most part, though, they looked like the type of folks I grew up with in the labor movement, coming to DC to enjoy a protest and spend the rest of the weekend taking in some monuments and museums. These weren't rich suburbanites; the teabaggers I saw were mainly poor people, whose trip to DC were probably the only the vacation they would be able to afford this year.


While we may not agree with the teabaggers, they are not all crazy. (Photo: ajagendorf25 / flickr)

Growing up in Pittsburgh, I had known many poor white people, but they all seemed to vote for Democrats because they had manufacturing jobs and were union members. Gradually, though, the unions - which were a means of educating people about politics - evaporated under the anti-union policies of Democrats and Republicans alike. I saw more and more strong Democrats turn Republican as they began to distrust a Democratic Party that took away their jobs with policies like NAFTA and one after another massive corporate giveaway.

Even recently, my own grandmother, a lifelong Democrat, admitted to my mother that she was unsure about health care reform because of the "death panels."

Is my grandmother some sort of stupid, racist, teabagging reactionary? I think not. This is the woman who, after all, told me stories about how she was called a “Mediterranean n**ger” growing up and was sympathetic to the experience of African-Americans. But has my grandmother been lied to by Democrats and Republicans alike and seen her standard of living decline over the past 30 years? Sure. And has this led my grandmother to the point where she is so confused about what to believe that she simply doesn't trust government because, mostly, what government has done is hurt her over the last 30 years? Without a doubt.

As Sara Robinson argues in her must-read piece analyzing the rise of the teabagger movement among working-class Americans:

No democracy in history has ever survived with our current levels of inequality. There's no reason for the middle and working classes to trust anything about a system that's so clearly rigged to suck money straight out of their pockets into the tax-free offshore bank accounts of the wealthy - who, of course, turn right around and use that money to buy off our government, so they can suck up even more of our economy for themselves.

People are confused. They are angry, and they have little faith in government.

FULL story at link.

[BlooInBloo]

1. Truthout - check. White folks saying what MLK would have done - check.

[Hannah Bell]

7. cause white folks can only understand white folks, & black folks can only understand black folks,

women only women, men only men, asian only asian, gay only gay -

we live in a world of competing & mutually incomprehensible "identities" - so say the fraudulent purveyors of identity as substitute for class politics.

[BlooInBloo]

42. No, because white folks have a long and glorious history of making shit up about black folks...

And somehow - MAGICALLY - it practically ALWAYS serves the interests of white folks.

Or shorter: white folks lie.

This white guy has seen it way to many times, and doesn't mind telling the truth about it.

[The Straight Story]

47. And black folks have a history of stealing things in my hood

So therefore all of them are suspect.

Same logic IMHO.

[BlooInBloo]

57. hahahaha!

[ismnotwasm]

90. You know

That is a particularly fucked up comment. Truly.

I'm white and I used to steal things in the hood. Wat up?

[The Straight Story]

117. Exactly my point

You cannot judge a whole group by the actions of some.

[Hannah Bell]

48. oh, you're a white guy telling us what black people think too? irony alert.

fwiw, i know a number of black people who agree with me. & i imagine there's a range of opinion among blacks, same as with any identity grouping.

so they don't need you telling us what "they" think. it's just what you think about what "they" think.

[BlooInBloo]

56. I missed the part where I did that.

[Hannah Bell]

75. did you? not surprised.

[cali]

66. yes, yes. only white people lie.

it doesn't get much stupider than that.

[H2O Man]

164. Gracious.

I find myself agreeing with both Boo and you.

Attempting to take ownership and to indeed manipulate certain historical figures' messages is a human quality, not tied in any manner to the shade of one's skin. The current context in this country, however, tends to allow certain groups more access to spreading disinformation and misinformation, than other groups.

From the paintings of the blond haired, blue-eyed Jesus, to George W. Bush visiting King's grave, there are numerous examples of white skinned people doing this. But, another interesting example comes to mind, with Minister Malcolm X. Towards the end of his life, while he was in transition, more than one white person called him a communist. At the same time, many black militants viewed him as selling out -- odd, considering how little money the man made. But, interestingly, after his death, a number of people who imagined themselves as the cutting edge of socialist-communist activism attempted to claim Malcolm as their own. And these weren't just white folk: plenty of deluded black and brown-skinned "revolutionaries" made the same false claims.

Now, that isn't to say that Malcolm did not express some interest in mixed economies, including some strains of socialism. Both Martin and Malcolm definitely did.

However, in terms of the OP and the tea-baggers, that is simply an example of a confused person, attributing her own being on Martin. Did King advocate public demonstrations? Yes, those that offered an avenue to non-violent progress. Would you find many King supporters among the tea baggers? I certainly can't say for sure, but it seems rather unlikely. Would King have spoken with them? Sure. He believed in speaking with everyone, even his enemies. Would he have supported them? Highly unlikely, though he would support their right to protest. The author simply found herself applying her beliefs on King, not an uncommon human behavior.

[ismnotwasm]

95. I love this comment from Alice Walker's Mom

from "In Search our Mother's Gardens"

"Well I doubt if you can ever get the true missing parts of anything away from the white folks," my mother says softly, so as not to offend the waitress who is mopping up a nearby table; "they've sat on the truth so long by now they've mashed the life out of it"

[Treo]

63. How come no one's called this guy on his racism? NT

[Hannah Bell]

76. how's that?

[Treo]

83. The poster

Is essentially saying that a white person can't speak for or understand a black person. At least that's what I got out of it. In doing so he's classifying by race. Is that not . by definition, racism.

[Hannah Bell]

87. which poster?

[Treo]

88. First responder NT

[armyowalgreens]

129. Because it isn't worth the hassle.

That poster is incapable of admitting fault.

[NWHarkness]

2. The teabaggers may not all be racists

But they are all willing to accept racism as a tactic, if it advances their interests.

It's a difference without a distinction in my opinion.

[Treo]

51. All generalizations are incorrect NT

[Orsino]

3. Okay. But how many, really, are saying they're all racists?

And how does the author's grandmother's mre uncertainty make her a Teabagger? :shrug:

[Truth2Tell]

4. You lost me at "Martin Luther King would have..." nt

[Taverner]

172. Yes...why don't we ask what Alister Cromwell would have said...or Elivs...

[Forkboy]

5. Not buying it, sorry.

[Solomon]

142. Here's what bugs me about the constant attempt to portray

these people as "normal". Why would they join in with people who are obviously racist?

I'm not giving them a pass. They have no problem using the racists for their own cause.

[Forkboy]

148. That's how I see it.

This thread is a mind fuck. :crazy:

[Hannah Bell]

6. mlk would have organized them, not called them "racists". in fact, it's

probably why he was murdered; his plans to organize a multi-racial 'poor people's movement'.

identity politics = dead end, just fodder for the ruling class's 'divide & rule' strategy.

[Truth2Tell]

11. He would have had to throughly re-educate them

before he could have organized them.

I don't think the teabaggers of today, much like their Jim Crow predecessors, would be of any use to a real "multi-racial poor people's movement."

[Hannah Bell]

20. you assume people's opinions & inclination to action are stable, unless subject to

"re-education".

that must be why commies become wingers & wingers turn to commies.

if someone was successfully organizing the poor, the working class, the indebted, the unemployed to improve their situations, i assure you, many of those folks you're calling "racist" would be there.

[Forkboy]

23. "many of those folks you're calling "racist" would be there."

And many of them would still be racists.

[Hannah Bell]

26. some would, so what? it doesn't excuse the "party of the little guy"'s failure

to organize the working class or remedy their situation.

it's just political cover for the failure to do so while pursuing policies benefiting the rich mostly.

[Forkboy]

33. I agree with your post, not with the idea that MLK wouldn't see the racists as racists.

[Hannah Bell]

46. i'd say he had a bigger vision than most. his focus was never on demonizing his opposition,

but in showing the justice of his cause & drawing people into it by moral example.

i doubt he'd waste much time calling people names.

but name-calling seems to be the entirety of the dem "social justice" vision these days.

[intheflow]

114. I know! I hate the name-calling!

It's like we're morphing into that which we hate most. Scary.

[leftstreet]

127. +1

[dionysus]

151. the teabaggers would have lynched MLK einstein. jeeesus h on a pogo stick.

[subcomhd]

165. purposeful or are the ruling class just part of the same paradigm?

Or both?

WWGS?

What Would Gramsci Say?

[rvablue]

8. I wish this guy would ask his grandmother why she thinks there were no teabaggers

only a mere 9 months ago.

In general, people's way of life hasn't changed, and the amount of taxes they're paying certainly haven't gone up.

Things were just as bad now, more or less, as they were last summer. Why is it, then, there were no teabaggers last summer? Last spring? Why did they sit silent under GWB, while the rich got tax cuts, and the rest of us got nothing?

Why?

Very surprised to see this on TruthOut, actually.

[uberblonde]

18. Mike Elk is a union organizer.

The whole premise of organizing is based around building a coalition grounded in COMMON cause, not on looking for differences. And Democrats better learn this, or we're going to lose it all in the mid-terms.

Bravo, Mike!

[Omaha Steve]

44. Well I'm glad somebody besides me got it

Thank you.

[Raineyb]

112. Lots of us GET it.

We also consider it a lot of bull.

There's nothing more annoying when someone pretends to have authority on what MLK would think then declares that whatever thing it is they don't care for would not be favored by MLK.

Utter rot is what it is.

[Hannah Bell]

120. while *you,* otoh, know *exactly* what mlk would think.

we can judge by what he did in life. your guess has no more cred than mine except to the extent it can be supported by evidence from his life.

[Raineyb]

123. No. But then *I* am not the one making the claim. That would be you.

Most people aren't so arrogant as to claim to know what a man who was dead years before they were born would think.

That's the difference between your post and mine.

[Hannah Bell]

128. i'm claiming what he *actually DID do* while living was organize a

multiracial poor people's campaign, not sit around giving press releases about how racist woking class white people were.

You call that "arrogant;" i don't much care.

[FlaGranny]

132. You need to go back and look

at some photos and footage of MLK marches and rallies. Particularly check the signs people are carrying. See the difference? MLK marches bore no resemblence to teabaggers.

[Hannah Bell]

133. please point out where i claimed a teabagger rally was equivalent to the march on

washington.

straw.

[FlaGranny]

135. You didn't - you said MLK would approve

of the teabaggers. He wouldn't. They are 2 different animals, as is perfectly shown in the kind of demonstrations King did as opposed to the teabaggers. MLK would certainly approve of their right to protest, but certainly not them or their message.

Edit: Just in case - King's signs asking for freedom and equality. Teabaggers' hateful signs equating the President with Hitler, monkeys, etc. I very much doubt MLK would think pictures of the president as a monkey or Hitler were NOT racist or that sentiment that somehow the president is "foreign" is not racist.

[Hannah Bell]

161. please point out where i said mlk "would approve" of teabaggers.

more straw.

[FlaGranny]

176. Okay, you're right - you said "LOVED" - not approved.

I think LOVED is a stronger word than approved, though. God - reaching much?

[Raineyb]

166. Organizing does not mean one has to include

people who hold up racist signs in your movement. And the tea baggers are the modern day equivalent of the people holding up signs declaring the righteousness of segregation. MLK didn't join with them. They would have to repudiate their prior thinking and join MLK. Yet another difference you seem incapable of comprehending.

[hfojvt]

21. the rest of us got nothing?

That's a ridiculous thing to say.

[Hannah Bell]

28. that there are powerful, connected forces funding & promoting this "movement" doesn't mean

everyone participating in it is powerful & connected or shares or knows about the agenda of the backers.

[Luminous Animal]

30. Because a mere 9 months ago...

there was no organized movement (including the media) to harness their anger.

[Omaha Steve]

9. I'm sending the author a link

Lets see what he has to say.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

10. Martin Luther King would have been shot by the Teabaggers.

Essentially, he was.

[VMI Dem]

12. +1.

[GMA]

15. Oh, come on.

Posters on this site should be better than that.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. Teabaggers should stop being crazy racist losers.

[GMA]

22. What

makes them losers? Know any of them? I do, and like the original poster says, these are decent people. That they're angry doesn't make them crazy.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. Well, being racists makes them losers.

Calling themselves teabaggers while being ignorant of the meaning of the term makes them losers.

Going to teabag rallies makes them losers.

Losing the last election makes them losers.

Not being able to get over the last election makes them losers.

"I do, and like the original poster says, these are decent people."

OP's wrong. These people are scum.

[GMA]

27. Wow. Harsh.

And so deeply thought through.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GMA]

34. Why...

does thinking that there are good people on both sides of the issue make me a troll? I signed up last week after perusing the site some, and I've been really interested in a lot of the discussions, but yesterday, after seeing so much thoughtless mud-slinging, I wasn't coming back. Thought I'd try one more time. You guys aren't open-minded or out for real discussion, and you're more angry than you were before the election. It makes no sense.

[Forkboy]

36. LOL

You guys aren't open-minded or out for real discussion, and you're more angry than you were before the election

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. Are those real tears? Or just Vicks?

[GMA]

39. Definitely Vicks.

He's not as good at bringing tears to his eyes on cue for the camera as former President Clinton was. Come on, is everybody here this silly?

[Forkboy]

45. Nobody alert on this one for awhile.

:rofl:

[Le Taz Hot]

137. What's to alert?

:shrug: Clinton DID play for the cameras. All politicians do.

[Raineyb]

113. Racists by definition are NOT good people.

And tea baggers are damn sure a racist lot.

[Rude Dog]

124. Tell me...

How much are they paying you to post this used-up drivel?

Because I'll double it if you'll shut the fuck up.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

32. Awwwwwww!

:nopity:

[Forkboy]

29. LOL..."decent people".

I'd hate to meet your idea of assholes.

Enjoy your stay.

[The Straight Story]

49. Are those pics from DU over the past 8 years?

People called us 'haters' for not agreeing with the president too, not to mention for the many comparison's we made to hitler.

[Forkboy]

52. Amazing watching people defend teabaggers.

[The Straight Story]

53. Amazing watching people use the same tactics before and then condemn them later (nt)

[Forkboy]

61. The poster I was responding to called them "decent people".

I showed otherwise. Deal with it.

[The Straight Story]

73. And I think we are/were decent people too, and so are many teabagger types I know

Saying they are not decent people simply because of their comparison of Obama/Dems to Hitler/Nazis just does not fly with me because many on the left did it for years.

Maybe they are not decent people for other reasons,but using that reason just does not wash.

[DutchLiberal]

157. Which concentration camp has Obama set up? Oh, wait, he's closing the one Bush had set up!

[Le Taz Hot]

138. You cannot possibly make the claim that EACH and EVERY

teabagger is guilty of carrying or agreeing with those signs. You would have to interview each and every one and document it to be able to make that claim. It's exactly the same thing when we go out and protest, say the Iraqi war, and the anarchists (usually only about 12 or so) come in and start tearing things up. Do they represent the anti-war demonstrators? Nope. And when that does happen and the media happens to be there, what do they focus their cameras on? The disruptors. In the same way I don't see where all teabaggers believe the racist signs that these few individuals are carrying and I have no reason to believe that the media is concentrating on those few racist signs.

I've talked to teabaggers. Guess what? We have a LOT in common with them. They're losing jobs, we're losing jobs. They're losing their homes, we're losing our homes. They're losing their health care, we're losing our health care. They're scared shitless and political interests and money are "showing them the way." Of course they're being used, but no more than we are being used by the Democratic party.

This inane name-calling is counterproductive and a complete waste of time and time is something we do not have the luxury of wasting.

[Forkboy]

149. If people knowlingly side with obvious racists to futher a goal...

..then those people deserve to be lumped in with said racists. YOU may have a lot in common with them, but I don't. Ask these people why they can't protest for what they want while NOT teaming up with a bunch of racists. Being used is no excuse. If they can't see the ugliness that's STANDING RIGHT BESIDE THEM them fuck them. You have sympathy for them if you want. I don't.

This inane name-calling is counterproductive and a complete waste of time and time is something we do not have the luxury of wasting.

I'll spend my time as I see fit. If your time is that crucial why waste it on DU talking to a bozo like me? There's work to be done!

[dionysus]

152. they're just misunderstood, good christian folks is all.

:rofl:

[DutchLiberal]

156. The fact that they hold up signs calling Obama a "lying African" comes to mind...

Or asking for birth certificates. Or picturing Obama as Hitler. Or having pictures of Obama and a monkey side-by-side.

As if you don't know. You're one of them!

[Le Taz Hot]

136. Most of us are.

We do have our share of "special" cases, as does any site. Several are on this very thread as a matter of fact. Take them with a grain of salt and focus on DUers who can debate a point without ad hominum attacks. And, btw, welcome to DU. :hi:

[jeffbr]

13. Where's his birth certificate?

Yeah, the birth certificate, not the certificate of birth.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[hileeopnyn8d]

92. I saw that too

I thought maybe I just misunderstood. What a strange thread.

[TwilightGardener]

93. I thought it was a joke.

[jeffbr]

14. del dup

[GMA]

17. And

he might have refrained from calling them teabaggers. Please.

[HughBeaumont]

59. We'll stop calling them teabaggers . . .

. . . when they stop fucking calling us or ANY Democrat these following ridiculous and nonsensical canards:

"Socialists" - Really? Stop using mail. Or driving on highways. Or going to libraries. Or using public parks. Or taking busses. Or drinking water. Or sending your garbage to the curb. Or supporting the troops. Walk the walk.
"Communists" - In 2009? Absolutely idiotic. Like a hypercorporatist nation like the U.S. is going to adopt a half-dead ethos because a Democrat is in the White House. By the way, here's a clue: no one under 45 except the most weak minded cares or falls for this "insult". Red-baiting has no emotional resonance to us. Anyone who uses this term in 2009 instantly loses the argument.
"Tree Huggers" - Lame.
"Hippies" - Lamer.
"Fascists" - Uh . . . that would be Republicans (or centrist appeaser neolibs). "Corporate power is vaulted, labor is suppressed"? . .. now which party does that sound like? COME on. COME on guy.
"Marxists" - What's wrong with the Marx Brothers?
"Blame America First" - You know, because we're infallible. And always the good guy. Pay no attention to that torture, butchering and dismemberment of children and women behind that sandstorm.
"Terrorist Helpers" - Er, I . . . what?

[cynatnite]

19. This article reminds me why I quit going to truthout years ago. n/t

[Doctor_J]

24. The teabaggers think that King Glen and Limpballs are on their side

they're really, really stupid

[ThePantaloon.com]

35. Look at the SIGNS! They ARE racist or crazy or ignorant

I completely disagree with you. The Teabaggers are either (1) racist, (2) crazy, (3) ignorant, or (4) some combination of the three. We have at least 30 signs on our blog, including ones that say, "BURY OBAMACARE WITH KENNEDY" or "JESUS DIDN'T HEAL THE SICK FOR FREE, OBAMA," or "THE ANTI-CHRIST IS LIVING IN THE WHITE HOUSE."

[GMA]

40. That there are some...

crazies doesn't make them all crazy. I thought the rules here said don't paint with broad brushes, and avoid personal attacks.

[hileeopnyn8d]

80. LOL!

I don't think the rules of DU say anything about not broadbrushing right-wingers.

[gleaner]

38. Based on what I have heard of ..

Dr. King's words and his life works, I don't think he would have been too fond of the tea baggers. Dr. Kings life was about securing equal rights and security for people of all races and about helping the poor to gain more of a piece of this country than the power structure was willing to give him. He helped people. He wanted the government to do more to help people. He offered solutions to large problems instead of living to create more grief.

The tea baggers are a bunch of thugs who are dedicated to keeping people from having any sort of help from the government and keeping the rich happy while the drive the poor and middle class to extinction. Dogs can give the same impression as the tea baggers. Really nice and friendly, but if you turn your back on them they'll bite your ass off.

[GMA]

41. Based on what you've heard?

What happened to spending a little time checking facts on both sides of an issue? There's so much whining here about how right-leaning the media is, why would they publish so many inflammatory pictures of protesters if they're sympathetic to them? I had loved ones in DC, and they weren't crazy.

[HughBeaumont]

64. What, you mean like covering the 9/12 Footshooter Parade from beginning to end . . .

. . . also giving it over three months worth of free promotion and airtime prior to that day?

Oh yeah, that same "leftist media" completely brushed off instances of 100, 200 and 450 thousand people at several anti-war protests in DC during Bewsh's second term. Never gave us the promotion either. They also jumped over themselves to call the election for the Failure Fuhrer in 2000 even though all of the Florida votes weren't counted properly.

[gleaner]

101. Well everyone is entitled to think....

what they want, but it doesn't make it true.

What I "heard" was what I lived through. I'm a Boomer. I remember the civil rights movement and Dr. Kings speeches and seeing people who now remind me of your good old salt of the earth tea baggers setting dogs on people who came to demonstrate peacefully for equal rights as citizens. I heard it all, and I saw the pictures courtesy of a media which was not yet slanted badly or corrupted; long before the only place you could get relevant and factual information was on a few cable channels and the internet.

I'm a Quaker too, which will not have much meaning to you unless you know our history of activism, discussion, peaceful demonstrations against injustice and civil disobedience which accepted jail as a consequence. The media publishes the pictures of the tea baggers because they sell. Money has become the new deity or hadn't you noticed?

How you personally feel about a person or a group of people does not represent what they actually contribute or the validity of what they are doing. I loved my father, but he was one of the worst bigots I have ever known. The fact that he was my father didn't make his ideas right.

Now may I suggest too you that you spend some time fact checking. You don't know what I have seen or heard in my life, and you don't know how I feel about something or why unless I tell you. I would call that jumping to conclusions. Like making assumptions not based on facts in evidence it is a very faulty way to make moral judgments of me or anyone else. Why don't you look at the divisiveness the tea baggers have brought into the body politic? Why don't you check out both sides of an issue? In other words, hold yourself to the same standards you want to hold everyone else to. People who don't do that usually find themselves looking like fools.

You don't know what Dr. King was thinking either. You only have his words and actions to go by. It seems fairly clear that you haven't done very much digging there, or anywhere else for that matter. Just because you like how someone presents themselves doesn't mean that they are good people. Even Ted Bundy made a great first impression. That was why he was such a successful serial killer. People decided on very short acquaintance that he was a wonderful guy and let their guard down a few minutes too soon.

You only have 42 posts, so welcome to DU.

[Shell Beau]

43. How can anyone know what MLK would've done or thought?

[Hannah Bell]

54. the fact is he was organizing a multiracial coalition for economic justice immediately before his

assassination.

presumably it represented his then-current thinking.

[Shell Beau]

55. Well a lot has changed since then. Not enough obviously, but

I have no clue what he would think or how he would feel. I can't imagine anyone else does either.

[Hannah Bell]

70. whatever.

[Shell Beau]

71. Whatever?

:shrug:

Can anyone ever know what a dead person would say or do? Why the "whatever"?

[Hannah Bell]

74. i know what he was doing when he died, that's close enough for me.

"In 1968, Martin Luther King Jr. and the Southern Christian Leadership Conference (SCLC) organized the Poor People's Campaign to address issues of economic justice, specifically for sanitation workers to receive a $9 per hour minimum wage rather than $1.70.

The campaign led to a worker's strike and a march in Washington, D.C. demanding economic aid to the poorest communities of the United States.

The march originated in Marks, Mississippi. From there, Dr. King crisscrossed the country to assemble "a multiracial army of the poor" that would descend on Washington – engaging, if need be, in nonviolent civil disobedience at the Capitol—until Congress enacted a poor people's bill of rights. Reader's Digest warned of an "insurrection".

Prior to the completion of the campaign, Dr. King was assassinated on April 4, 1968."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poor_People's_Campaign


Your imaginary mlk - the one who didn't get assassinated & is alive today - never existed. The one who lived was organizing multiracially for economic justice, & was killed for it.

[Shell Beau]

77. Did you really post that last statement? Good God how desperate

does that sound. Because yeah, I really believe that. :eyes: Posting such ridiculousness has got to be counterproductive.

My point is he is dead. Long gone, unfortunately. No one knows how he would feel today. You can certainly assume he would be for equal human treatment. He died promoting equality, but to go so much further to assume he would be for the teabaggers, well that could be a disservice to his memory and legacy. We don't know how he would feel, and to say anything more is just a big fat assumption. Don't speak for the dead.

[Hannah Bell]

81. we know how he felt when alive. he risked his life to organize a multiracial

coalition for economic justice. that's the historic fact, which you seem to wish to dissolve by reference to your imaginary mlk, living today, who was never assassinated while he was organizing a multiracial coalition for economic justice.

[Shell Beau]

97. Um, ok. Thanks for the history lesson.

:eyes: I can't believe some people are for real.

[Hannah Bell]

103. it's crazy to believe mlk was killed for threatening the economic status quo.

more rational to believe he was killed by some random "racist".

uh, ok.

identity politics = capitalist profits.

[Shell Beau]

110. You believe whatever it is you want to believe I said or meant sweetie.

Assume what you want. If you got anything other than no one can know how MLK would feel today IF HE WERE ALIVE, then you way over-analyzed anything I said. It is really so simple.

[Hannah Bell]

121. i'm not your sweetie. he's not alive. he won't be alive. it's counter-factual, therefore

your "point" is irrelevant & trivial.

we know what he did WHEN HE LIVED.

He organized a multi-racial coalition for economic justice.

& he didn't run around making PR statements about "racism" in lieu of organizing real people, unlike some of the leading lights of today's democratic party.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. Teabaggers aren't interested in economic justice.

Or anything multiracial, for that matter.

[Treo]

62. And you know this because......? NT

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

65. Because they're against health care for the poor.

And in favor of tax cuts for the rich.

What is this? Did I fall down some magical rabbit hole and land in a wonderful land where people are completely incapable of recognizing the obvious.

Do you know the earth is round and revolves aroud the sun, Treo? Just checking.

[Treo]

67. I'm not cool W/ single payer

and half my family is illegal aliens. You were saying ?

[armyowalgreens]

130. I'm assuming you like socialized medicine then, right?

[Treo]

147. Nope

I must have got my terminology wrong. I worked for the goverment for 14 years they could screw up a wet dream. I don't want them anywhere near my healthcare. apparently this makes me a racist "teabagger"

[Rabrrrrrr]

118. It's like the fucking twilight zone in here - but this was the 50th anniverary of the show

amazing how many people are in here defending the teabaggers as decent, nice regular folk who just want to put a stop to the national debt.

:eyes:

fucking hell.

Is there a full moon tonight?

[Blue_Tires]

141. yeah...DU is good for a couple of good WTF threads per week...

but once every couple of months we get something hall of fame worthy like this....

[redqueen]

153. The full moon was Sunday.

So that wouldn't explain this influx of dumbasses / trolling shitheads.

And it sure woulnd't exaplain the batshit crazy dump linked in the OP.

[malletgirl02]

50. Jumping the Shark

It looks like DU may have jumped the shark.

[Treo]

60. I am SOOOO going to get flamed

I've said before on this website and I'll say again that your average "tea bagger" (yeah that's they way to open a dialog W/ these people insult them sexually) would fit right in on DU I went to a teaparty here in the Springs last April and they were bitching twice as loud about the Republicans as they were about Obama. Bottom line they're scared to death that if America keeps spending money it doesn't have we're all going to go broke.

IMO it's the extreme fringe on both sides that is stirring up the trouble and passing insults back and forth doesn't help. Neither does it help when some one (Like, fer instance Moi) shows up on DU and expressed a view point that isn't lock step W/ the current groupthink or ,God forbid , admit you own a gun and the DU witch hunters come out of the wood work and start screaming FREEPER!!!!!!

[ellie]

68. Where were they

when bush was spending trillions on his pet war? I don't recall any protests by these patriots! God forbid spending our money to help our citizens.

And they were bitching about the repukes because the repukes in power aren't conservative enough.

[Treo]

69. Were you there?

They were bitching because the repukes ( that's the way to get the other side to hear what you have to say) were spending too much money. As for Bush's war Where were you? I didn't see any huge protests in my hometown.

[fascisthunter]

106. home town... no we were in DC and NY

many other cities actually around the World, but that corporate media ignored most of it, and when they did mention it, they made up low numbers. Unlike the tea bagging goofey numb-nut parade which did get plenty of attention, all co-ordinated by rich right wing pricks, to make the movement look as legit and popular as possible.

Money can buy lot's of things, but it is all bought, and never legitimately earned. That's what makes it so weak, and doomed to fail in the end.

[ellie]

108. We aren't talking about me

YOU said that the teabaggers were recently protesting the government spending money. I asked you where they were during bush's reign. Did you ask any of them where they were?

[subcomhd]

169. The ones in our town wanted to know

where Obama's birth certificate was and were certain he is a Muslim and a Communist. Why should I give a fat rat's ass whether they "hear what I say?" What I had to say to them, I said in the voting booth last November. They heard it and THAT is why they are pissed.

[hileeopnyn8d]

102. If you haven't noticed

this message board has a name, and that name isn't Ron Paul Rules, or Galt's Gulch, or FreeRepublic.

There's a huge range of opinions here, but it is the Democratic Underground, and as such supports Democratic Party principles as well as progressive ideals. Notice I listed those separately because some Democrats aren't very progressive.

I'm not going to call you a freeper, but I'm curious as to whether you consider yourself a liberal or even a Democrat. You seem opposed to so much that we don't even think twice about, and go out of your way to defend far-right stances.

You don't have to answer, btw.

[TwilightGardener]

72. Um...no. Not sure that a group of folks dedicated to opposing EVERYTHING

that would help lift up the working class and poor, of ALL races, would have merited "love" from MLK Jr. Their reflexive hatred of anything the Obama administration proposes isn't "oh, we're so scared, we don't trust the government, we're so downtrodden..." Because these were most likely the same assholes that voted for Palin/McCain and cheered the Iraq war, had NO problem with the Cheney administration blowing all our money, racking up a huge-ass deficit, and borrowing from China to kill people who never even posed a threat. Government was A-OK when an old white GOPer was in charge, now it's pure evil, even though little has really changed (so far). This is pure bullshit.

[Hannah Bell]

79. you start from the assumption the folks involved are all

"dedicated to opposing EVERYTHING that would help lift up the working class and poor" - your conclusion follows from your false assumption.

[TwilightGardener]

82. That's funny, because the little rallies and town hall protests are basically about

making sure nobody gets anything that might come from THEIR tax dollars, no matter how much it might benefit them in their own lives. That's the whole point of the "movement", besides a healthy dose of racism and casting doubt on the legitimacy of our President. If you can show me a positive suggestion or idea from the Teabag set and their leaders Beck and Limbaugh that might truly help the common man, share it.

[Hannah Bell]

85. it's funny you know why every one of those folks might support an anti-tax

message. i know a number of such folks, & some are even relatives. your blanket characterization is far from the reality.

[TwilightGardener]

91. You can be FOR lower taxes and not be a teabagger. Teabagging

rolls the anti-tax sentiment into a much larger package of negativity, suspicion, "fuck you, I've got mine" sentiment, and hatred. And I'm still waiting to hear what positive things the teabaggers stand FOR.

[Hannah Bell]

94. yes, & you can be *for* ending war without going to demos, too.

demos draw the most active. their overall opinions, however, aren't homogenous.

your blanket characterization is little different from labeling all anti-war protestors "commies". or these days, "anarchists".

[TwilightGardener]

98. Your analogies are a little off. If I said all Republicans are teabaggers,

that would be inaccurate. If I said that all teabaggers are racist, that would be inaccurate. But the simple fact, that you seem unable to deny, is that they exist as a group solely to oppose THIS President and his policies, no matter how helpful they may be to their lives. This group did not exist until last spring. They did not organize against President Bush, despite his big-spending/anti-little-guy policies. Why do you think they are so mobilized now? Why are they so easily swayed into believing incredible, outrageous lies about this administration? And for the THIRD time, WHAT are they doing that is POSITIVE in terms of helping the underclasses? Sorry, teabaggers are fucking haters, greedheads, idiots, and losers. They all invariably fall into one of those categories. I will never let people convince me that they're "decent". Just because I know some of them, just because they aren't eating kittens, just because they might hold a job or go to church or put their shopping carts back in the right place, doesn't mean they're "decent".

[Hannah Bell]

100. The simple fact that you seem to ignore is that the views of the leadership

aren't identical with the views of the rank & file who may have joined a demo only because it was the only "movement" there was that seemed to address *any* of their concerns.

The second fact you seem to ignore is that you're making blanket generalizations about everyone involved in teabagging, & others on this thread are indeed dismissing them with blanket labels like "racist".

The third fact is that the OP message is "why aren't the dems out organizing people?" they're *not*, so the dismissal of any real grievances rank & file teabagger types might have with "they're just racists" rings increasingly hollow.

[TwilightGardener]

111. Protesting against this President for daring to propose health care reform,

because of the fear that some "welfare queens" somewhere might get something they don't "deserve"... hating the President because he is "STEALING OUR LIBERTIES"... believing that our President really wants to kill off old and retarded people... comparing him to Hitler, calling him socialist, calling him a Muslim, saying he is not a citizen, calling him a Kenyan... do the Teabaggers do these things, or do they not? For the FOURTH time, please share with us the POSITIVE things they stand for, the concerns they have for ANYONE except themselves, the sort of thing that would make MLK Jr. sympathetic to their "cause", as the OP suggests. You know what, never mind. Defend pondscum all you like, I'm tired of your devil's-advocate game. Good night.

edit to add: by "OP" I mean the Truthout article, not Omaha Steve.

[Hannah Bell]

122. "Protesting against this President for daring to propose health care reform"

is spin. as is the rest of the crap about welfare queens, etc.

if dems don't deliver to the working class, you can spin to kingdom come. it won't help.

[G_j]

78. They aren't standing up for their rights.

They are expressing anger, frustration, bitterness and hatred.

They are just like anyone else, in that being working class in this country, sucks.
Martin Luther King followed, first of all, the star of love. In that sense, he certainly would have tried his very best to love them as people.
He would have been as disturbed as most of us, by the premise of their "activism".

:puke:

MLK also thought the government could raise the boats of the poor, and level the playing field. Besides having a completely opposite ideology, his greatest foe was hate. He would not have loved the teabagger movement. It is centered around anger, and a not so veiled hatred. It makes me wonder if the author had actually gone back and refreshed themselves on MLK Jr's writings and actions?

:think:

(IMHO)



Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Hate multiplies
hate, violence multiplies violence, and toughness multiplies toughness in a descending spiral of destruction....The chain reaction
of evil--hate begetting hate, wars producing more wars--must be broken, or we shall be plunged into the dark abyss of
annihilation.

**

Like an unchecked cancer, hate corrodes the personality and eats away its vital unity. Hate destroys a man's sense of values
and his objectivity. It causes him to describe the beautiful as ugly and the ugly as beautiful, and to confuse the true with the false
and the false with the true.

Martin Luther King, Jr., Strength To Love, 1963.

[bullwinkle428]

115. The teabaggers ARE standing up for rights - the rights of

the uber-rich and powerful multi-national corporations!! Doesn't that count for something? :evilgrin:

[RagAss]

84. Who Marched with a Rifle at Selma? Jesus, read a history book !

[Hannah Bell]

86. care to respond to the issue raised in the op?

[RagAss]

99. I did.

[Hannah Bell]

104. no, you didn't.

[Forkboy]

105. Would someone argue with Hannah already so she can get her fix?

[Hannah Bell]

107. is this a discussion board?

[Forkboy]

109. Please someone, I beg of you.

:rofl:

[Shell Beau]

154. Haha

:rofl:

I even got a history lesson! Did you know that MLK is dead? Apparently I didn't.

[Raine]

96. Sure they're not all crazy or racists but they're dupes

and stooges being used by the crazies and the racists, making them scared of their own shadows.

[bullwinkle428]

116. Guilty of "RANK, WILLFUL STUPIDITY" - KO has never been more accurate in

a "Special Comment"!

[Arkana]

119. Pretty sure Dr. King wouldn't have liked the threats of violence

against the first black guy President.

[New Dawn]

125. MLK would not have supported reactionary thugs, like the teabaggers.

However, Hitler and Mussolini would have.

BTW, if people really oppose the neo-liberal policies of the Democratic Party's right-wing leadership, then why support the GOP which wants the same thing (or worse)?

[TheKentuckian]

126. MLK would have organized the teabaggers?!? WHOA!!!

Are you saying he would have lead laissez faire klan rallies?

or

Are you saying he would have been mobilizing these same folks for economic injustice? If so then I think you misunderstand either King or the teabaggers. Below are some excerpts of what Dr King was going for, you tell me how to reconcile that with...

He maintained that civil rights laws were empty without "human rights" — including economic rights. For people too poor to eat at a restaurant or afford a decent home, King said, anti-discrimination laws were hollow.

Noting that a majority of Americans below the poverty line were white, King developed a class perspective. He decried the huge income gaps between rich and poor, and called for "radical changes in the structure of our society" to redistribute wealth and power.

"True compassion," King declared, "is more than flinging a coin to a beggar; it comes to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring."

King's economic bill of rights called for massive government jobs programs to rebuild America's cities. He saw a crying need to confront a Congress that had demonstrated its "hostility to the poor" — appropriating "military funds with alacrity and generosity," but providing "poverty funds with miserliness.

There is such a thing as irreconcilable differences and I can't think of many belief systems more at odds than later day (or any day for that matter) MLK and the teabaggers. The point has been asserted and rehashed often but never explained. What in creation would King do with this assortment of the willfully ignorant, racists, secessionists, wannabe tax evaders, suckers, Reich Wingers, and assorted kool-aid drinking morons?

[Confusious]

131. Yes, we should reach out to working folks

But teabaggers are not your typical regular hard working middle class and lower class Americans.

Trying to convince these people would waste time that would would be better spent working on changing minds that CAN be changed.

Maybe MLK would have reached out to these people. Would he have gotten anything back? I think not.

[Hannah Bell]

134. by "reach out" what's meant is create an alternative to teabagging.

the dems, unions, & affiliates organized a lot of people with a lot of hope & energy for obama's campaign & inaugural.

once he got elected, what did they do with all that hope & energy? build on it? no. ignored & squandered it.

[hileeopnyn8d]

145. But a majority

of the teabaggers are anti-union as well. Sure, they're somewhat okay with the teachers union & police and firefighters, but they demonize all the others.

[NYC Liberal]

139. I would give a shit about the teabaggers if they had done ANYTHING

for the last 8 years. Because it was during the last 8 years that these enormous deficits were run up.

It was during the last 8 years that we spent over $1 trillion dollars on a war that was based on lies and should never have happened.

It was during the last 8 years that our economy was destroyed.

It was during the last 8 years that the Republicans squandered a surplus.

It was during the last 8 years that what they supposedly are complaining about, namely, a higher tax burden for the middle and working classes, was put into place.

It was during the last 8 years that we saw the largest expansion of government in history.

It was during the last 8 years that the conservatives (and more specifically, Bush) -- not the liberals -- illegally wiretapped American citizens without warrants, threw people in jail and denied them their rights (no access to an attorney, no speedy trial, no confrontation of accusers, no gathering witnesses favorable to their defense).

Where were they? Nowhere.

This is about conservative hatred of Obama for not fixing in 9 months what the conservatives took 8 years to do.

Fuck them.

You know, the anti-war protesters are consistent. They've been protesting since 2002, before the war started and when the protests really did matter (not that they don't now), and all through the Bush years ... and are still protesting even if a new guy is in office. I might give these teabaggers a modicum of credit if they were as consistent.

But they aren't. So screw these people.

[Blue_Tires]

140. wrong on several levels...

first of all, the majority of the teabag crowd 40+ years ago would have been the ones using the firehoses...but the biggest fallacy from the author is the failure to realize the frenzied and scatterbrained political makeup of the so-called 'teabag' crowd (whose name is already a misnomer since the original Boston Tea Party was supposedly protesting taxation without representation)...

Let's call them what they are: The "anti-everything-to-do-with-obama" crowd...That is the only true shared belief in this thousand-headed political monster which has elements from the extreme right, the anti-tax crowd, the garden-variety racists who will never accept a black man giving orders, birthers, Ron Paul loons, LaRouchies, Palinites, Birchers, paleos, Pat Buchanan types, fundie social conservatives, neo-nazis, Alex Jones/Art Bell fanboys, and the ones looking out for gun-grabbing UN Black Helicopters...Granted, I'll concede that somewhere in that crowd (but less than 5 percent) are decent, hardworking, non-racist folks with honest issues over the Wall Street bailouts or the deficit, but the author has swallowed the bait and is assuming all the anti-progress crowd is legit in their concerns...

Either way, to think that Dr. King would have embraced that crowd as his own (in the 50s and 60s many of them would have been Birchers) or more importantly, to think that crowd would EVER listen to King (they refuse to respect a black man in the highest office in the land; why would they treat King any differently?) Makes me wonder which universe that author lives in...

[mmonk]

143. Sorry, I just don't see it that way.

[IsItJustMe]

144. Anyone who is listening to people like Glenn Beck, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Hannity, or Coulter and

believe what they are saying are not quit functional. Regardless of how they decide to label themselves. PERIOD.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

146. Those people who MLK treated with love?

They put a bullet in his head. Any they'd do it again, given the opportunity.

[Le Taz Hot]

160. And he would do the same thing --

treat them with love. It's the message the neo-pseudo liberals don't get and never will 'cause it's usuns agin themun - yer either fer us or agin us. Same tune, different millennium.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

162. I'm not quite sure what you're talking about....

But suffice to say that I would rather treat violent extremists with love and federal subpoenas. And as much as I love them now, I would love them even more if they were doing thirty years for conspiracy and not able to harm anyone else.

[Le Taz Hot]

163. This is not about what "you" would do,

it's about what MLK would do.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

177. Last time I checked, he's pretty much still dead...

so it's kind of a moot point.

[dionysus]

150. ROFL!!! them boys is vying with Counterpunch ain't they?

:crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy::crazy:

[DutchLiberal]

155. Yes, Mike Elk, your grandmother IS a stupid, teabagging reactionary.

If she's worried about "death panels", yes, she is stupid. And worse: she's willfully stupid, because anybody who WANTS to, can find out the truth about it in a split-second.

If even a supposedly 'progressive' site like Truthout is legitimizing teabaggers (people with pictures of Obama as Hitler; Obama as a monkey; asking for birth certificates), we're in BAD shape...

[SIMPLYB1980]

158. Well look at this I stay away from DU for a couple day's

and the first post I read is a pile of crap.
:freak:

[Hippo_Tron]

159. The tea-baggers are a vast minority

If they truly represented the views of most working class white people I would be inclined to take this seriously. He makes good points that many Americans do distrust government right now for good reasons and are skeptical about health care reform. But I doubt that most of them are truly concerned about "death panels".

Furthermore I would add that before the Democratic Party went to the right and supported pro-corporate policies, working class white people left the Democratic Party and went over to Nixon and Reagan and that was largely due to racial issues. When they left the party, the party had to find a way to survive without them and the natural reaction was to start courting what used to be moderate Republicans who were turned off by the religious right but don't particularly care about labor or class issues.

[Romulox]

167. Inconvenient truth: there's no money in representing the interests of working people.

Moreover, the Democrats find it increasingly useful to have an amorphous "them" against which to direct the anger of an increasingly fractured coalition...

[VOX]

168. Aw, those sweet teabaggers are just like us...NOT! To these idiots, Obama's an African muslim.

They are fueled by Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, Savage, and the rest of hate radio/cable. If they are so "average," where were they during the eight L O N G years of * malfeasance? :grr:

[Taverner]

170. No - if MLK Jr were around today, this is what he'd say

BRAAAAAIIIINSS.....



----------------------

Forgive me for any disrespect - but this whole putting words into dead people's mouths bothers me.

[TheKentuckian]

174. The OP and a couple of others see working class white people

and think all working class white people have the same wants and goals. I suspect this is all about not wanting to deal with their friends and loved ones being hateful, willfully ignorant, stupid greedy, protofascist, racists or racists sympathizers.

The audacity to claim these folks aren't bigots when they are clearly comfortable with it is crazed. Talking about willful ignorance it takes a load of that to act like these folks want social-economic justice when the principles they are marching for.

[Taverner]

175. I just have a problem assuming what a historical person would say in today's world

People change - remember John Kerry? He faught long and hard to stop the Vietnam war.

Then he ran for president and was afraid to count the votes...

Same person...

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

171. One good thing about this thread it's that it's brought out the "I don't want the government in my

blah... blah ....blah..." types. And yes you sound just like the idiots you're defending.

[Lagomorph]

173. Frankly, I think a lot of teabaggers loved MLK...

Certainly not the white trash racist/sexist baggage that follows them around, but many of them did sign on for equal rights.

America is supposed to be for everybody. You can't make people participate, but they should certainly get a fair shake when they do.