We need a "Greater Depression"....

[Postman]

for anything to change for the better...

Apparently the last collapse wasn't extreme enough for there to be any significant change for the better.

Banks are back to their casino schemes gambling with life ins. policies and soon, cap and trade...the bubble has been re-inflated. Obama's looking at how he can escalate the war in Afghanistan and Congress is passing bigger and bigger spending bills for wars and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan while ignoring the solutions for health care and job creation.

As if that weren't enough, they're ginning up the next war with Iran on flimsy evidence of WMD. Where did we hear that before?

Perpetual war to deflect attention from perpetual poverty....

I didn't vote for this...

[Odin2005]

1. That's a really nasty attitude.

People that push failure so they have a blank slate usually screw themselves.

[Teaser]

4. +1

.

[AllentownJake]

5. slow race to the bottom or a sudden crash

Does not matter, it is happening.

[The_Commonist]

8. He probably watched "The Postman" one too many times.

I think it would be better to change things without an even bigger disaster.
May not happen, but it's worth trying...

[Postman]

14. So do I. I don't see it happening...

The time to regulate Wall Street was when they had their hand extended for a bailout - didn't happen.

[MercutioATC]

23. In the words of Dr. Phil, "How's that working for you?"

The OP (though tongue-in-cheek) states an accurate (if not incredibly original) view.

The American people just don't care...even when experiencing the worst economy is 25+ years.

[MercutioATC]

16. It's realistic

I don't think the OP "pushes failure", it makes a statement on the corruption of the system, the willful ignorance of the American people, and the idea that nothing short of cataclysmic events will cause the people of this country to take responsibility for their future.

[Postman]

19. Thank you.

Old wine in New bottles is not what I was hoping for last November....

[MercutioATC]

24. De nada

There are a lot of ideologues here.

I don't regret my vote. McCain would have been worse. That said, I'm both appreciative of Obama's marketing campaign and disappointed that it was pretty mush just a marketing campaign.

[HughBeaumont]

31. That's easy for someone with a six-figure income 7 years away from retirement to say.

For the rest of us who aren't as fortunate, that's our livelihoods. A person's success, health and future is completely tethered to how gainfully they're employed. That's the way it is. How exactly does the clueless American public or the economy on which they depend (and vice versa) recover with NO MONEY and no prospects for future development??

[MercutioATC]

36. 6 1/2 years, actually...but that doesn't change the facts stated in the OP.

Regardless of how much I (or anybody else) makes or how close we are to retirement, the OP addresses the willful ignorance of the American people and how even a serious economic recession has failed to spur them to take responsibility for their futures. I believe it's a valid claim.

[HughBeaumont]

38. Uh . . . people with master's degrees are getting fired through no fault of their own.

We're talking teachers, traders, financial analysts, IT workers, marketing specialists, etc. I don't know, did these people "not take responsibility for their futures"?

I'm just not getting how you do that. Do classes on fortune telling and luck come into play? Are there any seminars on how to save money with a wage that hasn't risen in real dollars in decades? Is there a forest of money somewhere that we can pluck from to PAY for these multiple trips to college, which our overworked selves have so much time for?

And politicians . . . let's see, the last Democratic president we elected loved deregulation, listened to people like Phil Gramm and supported free trade and job offshoring. Should we have re-elected Bewsh the First or put Dole in office?

It's classic victim-blaming. A president cannot control the actions of corporations. Money talks and bullshit rides the Space Shuttle.

[dionysus]

55. will you volunteer yourself and your entire family for crushing poverty? otherwise you're a hypocrit

[MercutioATC]

60. Why? Because I believe that the average American has become irrationally apathetic?

Traditionally, people of means WANT everything handed to them. I'm neither a person of means nor a person who wants everything handed to them. What I am is somebody with a decent job who has spent time looking past the rantings of the talking heads so I can make informed opinions...and anybody can do that.

Look, most people in this country are like baby birds. They want to sit in their nest and have their sustenance delivered to them pre-digested. That being the case, they pretty much suffer the consequences of their actions. As a populace we've become soft, which we could get by with in good times...but we can no longer afford that kind of apathy and/or blind trust. People need to start thinking for themselves.

[dionysus]

65. i think you're dodging that a bit. if a depression is what it takes to wake people up, would you

be for it, knowing it would effect everyone, even you? (everyone except except the uber rich that you want to suffer, they won't feel a thing)

[MercutioATC]

76. "Want"? No, but I think it's inevitable.

Whether the focal point is personal responsibility or government regulation or business practices, the worst recession in 26 years doesn't seem to have changed anything substantive. The actions that led us here are still in practice. To expect an improvement is just silly.

Ever have a neighbor kid that races his car up and down your street? Ever hear somebody say "He's not going to slow down until he kills somebody."? They're not hoping for somebody's death, they're making an observation based on somebody's past (and continued) irresponsible behavior. Nowhere in the OP did the author call for a major depression, he simply said that it'll take a major depression to wake people up...because a really bad recession apparently has had almost no effect.

[dionysus]

52. We Need a Greater Depression isn't pushing failure? what does he have to do to push failure in your

eyes? say "JESUS CHRIST I HOPE AN ASTERIOD OBLITERATES THE EARTH!!1!!!!!"?

[MercutioATC]

62. It's a commentary on what it would take to wake people up.

If you're taking it as an advocacy for economic collapse, that's your issue.


The OP opines that it will take economic ruin of truly cataclysmic proportions to get people to shed their apathy...as evidenced by their cattle-like response to the worst economic downturn in 26 years.

[Orsino]

70. Not unlike calling for wars of liberation.

Sure, you might succeed in bringing democracy...to the survivors.

[AllentownJake]

2. Don't worry

We are going to get it.

[dionysus]

51. by now you guys seem to romanticize or even promote this shit. classic.

"i hate the administration so i want another Great Depression!!1!1!1 WAAHHHHHHHHH!!1!1"
:eyes:

[Deja Q]

66. Well, can't they depress themselves?

[SOS]

58. Indeed we are

The Wall Street vultures and their lackeys on Capitol Hill will not stop until they have taken every last penny off the American citizen/worker.
Eventually, the entire system will collapse once it has been robbed beyond saving.
In 2008 they managed to hold it together with scotch tape, but next time Wall Street implodes due to it's own greed, there won't be enough taxpayer money available for a bail out.
The health system is expected to collapse by 2018.

The worry in the coming systemic failure of the US is what will come after that.
Somehow I think it will more resemble Pinochet's Chile than today's Norway.

[Teaser]

3. kinda selfish of you

to wish suffering, more joblessness, and malaise on the good citizens of this country just so you can get your political jollies.

[Postman]

7. KMA

It's tongue in cheek.....

Where's the "change"?

[Teaser]

10. been there, done that and it tasted like crisco last time too.

and btw, you know and I know that It wasn't tongue in cheek. Lying just makes you look small and weak.

[Postman]

15. Keep defending the status quo...

Obama is a huge let down even if you still want to adore him...

[HughBeaumont]

33. You're, like many . . MANY posters here, barking up the wrong tree.

Your problem is with the solidifying of corporate rule, which Obama has no choice but to play along with. Money is power. Message backed by money is power. The money behind the message is ubiquitous. During the Failure Fuhrer's reign, their media channels were looking for just about any damned excuse to prop the do-nothing king up, reality's cold smack to the jaw notwithstanding.

Have we seen ONE positive message about Obama and his policies since he's arrived? How many times have we seen Fox doing their usual Red-Baiting at the SLIGHTEST hint of any sort of policy, resolution or idea to left of Milton Friedman being suggested? Why is it SO arduously difficult to get a resolution put on an issue that would spread even a miniscule modicum of fairness (the "public option", which is about all you're going to get in the U$A) between the citizenry and their overlords?

It's because the Corptocracy DOES NOT WANT it that way. They want it THEIR way - "I get everything. You can TRY to get something, but I'm going to do my absolute godDAMNdest to either take it from you or make sure YOU DON'T GET it."

And their media conveys this message, but in the kindest and most fairy-tale way possible. Our country is filled with weak minded people who share the same brain that will follow and defend this message while not noticing the buckshot wounds on their feet.

Just ask the last president who tried to reign in corporate power where that got him.

Oh wait, you can't, because he's taking a dirt nap in Arlington with his brother, who likely would have done the same thing.

[Postman]

43. So Obama can't bring corporate change because he'd take a dirt nap?

Is that what you're saying?

If the power of corporations are at that point then we have no government worth saving.

[HughBeaumont]

47. Yes.

I'm in 100% belief he would be. And it hasn't been "our government" in a long while. Proof positive is the fact that progressives haven't received one damned SMIDGEN on anything in 29 years. Stagnant wages. Non-diverse economy. Invasion of privacy. Dubious elections. Wars at the expense of everything else. Jobs offshored. Degrees devalued. Negative savings rate. The only industrialized nation with no universal health care.

JFK tried to reign in steel and defense interests prior to his demise. He averted what was certain to be a 150-million + casualty nuclear war proposed by his generals. I think 11/22/63 was a message, not a security slip-up.

This is why I believe a second Great Depression will not happen. Letting the shit hit the fan TOO much isn't good for Big Business. Let alone over-the-top anger from the hoi-polloi, sooner or later, even the nuttiest of them is going to need customers, and those Malaysian & Chinese wage slaves ain't got the pockets for substantial profits.

[Greyhound]

46. The corporations are merely the current system/facade for the parasites that have screwed us

since forever.

[izquierdista]

11. Sounds like an observation to me

As in "this addict still hasn't hit bottom".

I was hoping that Obama could be the interventionist and get America off it's militaristic, fossil-fuel crack-pipe right away, but apparently he is waiting for the addict to smoke up all the rocks he has left before he starts "treatment".

[onehandle]

6. Nader said that we needed Bush elected in 2000 to reawaken the left.

Yeah. That was helpful.

[Teaser]

12. people don't learn.

.

[Postman]

21. For the most part , he was right....

But the people that needed to be reawakened are the Middle....and that didn't happen until things got soo bad they elected Barack Obama.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

9. What we need is a campaign finance law.

Despite misdirection, members, not the leaders for obvious reasons, from both parties agree.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. we needed that a long time ago.

[MilesColtrane]

17. The old "we've got to destroy the village, to save the village", hunh?

Otherwise known as the Nader philosophy....

[NNN0LHI]

18. They must think we are forgetful?

[NNN0LHI]

20. Are you still comfortable financially Postman?

[Libertas1776]

22. Imagine if we had

another Great Depression under this presidency, then what would the people do, probably vote Republican in some sort of reverse parallel thingy to people voting Dem after the 1929 crash to spite the Repubs. Of course, since their would be no FDR like figure with Repubs, we'd really be up shit creek as they would only fuck up things more. Another Great Depression is the last thing we need.

[Postman]

25. Where are the jobs?

Not everyone goes to college to be CPA's....

There's a vast workforce out there that used to work the factories that produced things of value, that payed a living wage, that created a Middle Class.

Those jobs are gone and the Middle Class is shrinking.

What FDR had back then to help him get us out of the last Depression was a manufacturing base that was able to employ all those people.....

Why was that allowed to be off-shored?

[Libertas1776]

26. You're right

we have destroyed the middle class by outsourcing our most valuable manufacturing jobs and consequently ripped out the very back bone of this country and now we're "flopping around" like some helpless invertebrate.

[AllentownJake]

32. Got news for you

The CPAs are hurting right now too. This is the first recession that has crept into the upper middle class and they are none to happy about it.

[HughBeaumont]

35. Because rich greedy men suck the llama's ass.

I'm just not getting how that's Obama's fault. This problem is 45 years in the making and is much larger than any politician (although their aiding and abetting the theft whether willfully or under coercion didn't help matters).

[Postman]

41. It's not Obama's fault. But the Democrats are just as guilty.

And I don't see Obama reigning in Wall Street.

[ecstatic]

27. Thank goodness you're not in charge

:eyes:

[Mari333]

28. It would help if there were Dems with spines rallying the people

like Grayson. so far, there are only Dems who sit and do nothing and collect windfall profits from lobbyists.

[SIMPLYB1980]

29. Foolish. nt

[cali]

30. sick.

and there are too many like you.

[Swede]

34. How old are you?

Great Depression? Then you'd know suffering and wars.

[Deja Q]

67. I'll place bets for the 0-15 range...

:hide:

[Javaman]

37. ahh the classic scorched earth policy of rebuilding.

the clean slate mentality of destruction.

YOU. DON'T. HAVE. A. CLUE.

do you honestly know what a depression or even what you term a "greater depression" would be like?

Not eating for several days. Wearing the same clothes on your back for days on end because 1)you don't have money to clean your clothes 2) if you have a clothes washer, you fear using it because it would drive up your electric bill 3) you sold all your other clothes so you could get money to eat.

Not only not having a job, but the hope of getting one in the next 3 years is a pipe dream.

the incredible level of mental depression that would blanket this nation, the likes of which is even hard to define in rational terms.

Poverty with a gigantic capital "P". You think there are homeless now? Google pics from the great depression for any of the major US cities. You will see hundreds of people sleeping on the streets. I'm not even going to get into the massive hoovervilles. That's a whole other tragedy.

Charities running out of food. Food riots. Frozen bodies on the streets in the winter.
The value of the dollar basically non-existent.

Good lord, do you even know what you are saying?

You won't have the choice of whether to pay a bill or to eat. You won't have enough to do either.

A short story from the great depression as related to me from my uncle.

"I waited on line for a bowl of thin soup for 6 1/2 hours. I hadn't eaten in 3 days. I got to the door and they turned me away because they ran out. That is the depression."

The effects of a depression on the individual are virtually endless.

Is that what you want? Do you honestly want to put the entire nation through something like that? Or are you like many people, pissed off at the greedy and want them to get the business end of grief? I would love that myself. But the very last thing I want is a "greater depression".

[HughBeaumont]

39. And you know what there still WAS after the depression?

Greedy. Rich. People.

They weren't affected by it ONE iota.

The lower 95% got the shit end of the stick and the wealthy .. .. well mostly got away scot-free.

I'm not even sure why people want a doomsday. It's never going to happen because the wealthy would be hunted like bison. This would turn into a free-for-all dystopia we wouldn't even want to imagine in our worst nightmares - because environments like that are more likely to get taken over BY a totalitarian government . . . the kind Dick Cheney wanted.

[Javaman]

40. +1 Exactly right. nt

[gkhouston]

42. I think the people who want a doomsday either don't truly understand what

it would be like or somehow imagine themselves coming out on top of the heap. True adolescent fantasy stuff, with no follow-through.

[dionysus]

56. no other way to put it, the people advocating this shit are blithering, clueless morons.

what else can you say? trying to romanticize another Great Depression fromt he comfort of their keyboards....

:shrug:

[cali]

63. and morally bankrupt.

[Subdivisions]

44. Who here denies that, in order to clear out the worthless debt being held by banks, that

debt must be defaulted and removed from the books?

[dionysus]

50. you gonna fuck everyone who's not riddled in debt so some people can get their bankruptcy cleared?

[TxRider]

45. That's exactly what the teabaggers wanted you know...

It's a pillar of their belief system.

No bailouts, let the fake financial system crash and burn or else we'll just have to go through it again. You go out on a limb with high risk, you pay the price if the risks don't pay off.

Free market capitalism means nobody is too big to fail. Bailing out the banks and insurance companies was slitting the throat of our free market system in their minds....

Their outlook is that now that the huge bankers know they have no risk of failure, that mommy government will always bail them out, they will only take on more risk and depend on the government to back them up if their bets fail again.

[scheming daemons]

48. Another "let it fail" loser..... yawn

[dionysus]

49. now i've seen it all. cheering for the country to collapse in crushing poverty. fool.

[cliffordu]

53. Then you are hopelessly naive.

[Ozymanithrax]

54. Ballpark figure: How many children should starve to death for this change to the better?

I mean, if you want a greater depression, you need to think in terms of human life.
I 100,000 children starved to death enough? Too much? Too few?

[HamdenRice]

57. Complete and utter foolishness and madness. Thrilled to unrec this garbage.

Yeah masses of people starving will make things better.

Idiotic.

[PVnRT]

59. Yeah, misery would be good, as long as you get proven right

Of course, another depression would only affect the wealthy. Everyone else would be fine.

[dionysus]

74. i love it how these clowns think it'll take down the rich. they'll buy everything dirt cheap while

ppl are starving to death.

[Throd]

61. I hope every third American starves to death

Only then we would finally get serious about doing the right thing.

[dionysus]

69. then, and only then, shall the kucinich juggernaut rise from the ashes and lead us to a new day!!11!

[Deja Q]

64. And you have proof that Ahamaneedadate is faking it, because........?

[trueblue2007]

68. you're a RETARD. No we do NOT need a great depression

we do not need MILLIONS OF HOMELESS and THOUSANDS of deaths.

What you said has got to be the STUPIDEST thing I've ever seen posted on DU.

My gosh....have some HUMANITY!!!

[dionysus]

71. the rich will survive it and the poor will starve to death. YOU REALLY SHOWED THEM!!1!!!!1!!11

:eyes:

[Initech]

72. The difference between the first depression and now is one thing:

Between 1930 - 1940, EVERYONE realized we were being fucked and worked together to change that. Do you really think the teabaggers would cooperate with us in the event of such a catastrophe? Fuck no!

[closeupready]

73. oops

wrong thread

[jinto86]

75. To get the change you want

You need Democrats to come to power with a budget surplus, control of both branches of government, and no lame duck President. This is the closest you have ever come but that whole budget surplus thing is your downfall. People don't want to spend for the change you want when America is 2 trillion dollars in the red for this year. Raise taxes or lower services and you might get there, if not :shrugs:.