Tasers gaining widespread acceptance, but Tarrant County sheriff bucks the trend (Texas)

[Heidi]

Ft. Worth Star-Telegram
Posted Saturday, Oct. 10, 2009

Tarrant County Sheriff Dee Anderson appears to be the lone holdout among the state’s largest metropolitan law enforcement agencies in refusing to issue Tasers to his deputies.

Sheriff’s departments in Bexar, Dallas, Harris and Travis counties use the weapons that deliver an electric shock. Locally, more than 10 police departments — including Arlington, Dallas/Fort Worth Airport and Fort Worth — have trained their officers and equipped them with Tasers.

U.S. Customs and Border Protection is one of Taser International’s latest clients, and the Texas Department of Public Safety is seeking to add Tasers to its arsenal as well.

<snip>

Anderson said the risk-reward factor was key in his decision not to use them.

"My concern has always been that someday there would be an officer who might cause the death of someone with one of the Tasers," he said. "If you have a less-than-lethal option in your hand and you end up causing the death of someone, I felt that it would put the deputy in a tough spot."

Before making his decision, Anderson conducted his own research, studied the stun guns and followed local cases where they were used. In cases where people who have health issues or who have used alcohol or drugs, Anderson found that the electric shock could be deadly. In the end, he decided against seeking funding for them.

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[BlooInBloo]

1. Breaking: Terrorists love torture devices.

Good for that sheriff, though.

[Name removed]

8. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

2. law enforcer that think things thru. that is always a good thing. good for him. nt

[MagickMuffin]

3. He's my Sheriff, I've never voted for him though he is a republican and he came from Arlington PD

But I have to say this about his decision on this issue :applause:

However, I'm disappointed in the TDPS decision. The TDPS are horrid as it is, they are extremely "Authoritarian" as it is now. Just think how much more they will abused this new found power :cry:

[cabluedem]

4. Good for this sheriff! Its about time to stop Tazer use. nt

[ezgoingrl]

5. Talk about a refreshing turn of events!

n/t

[vadawg]

6. sounds like a good idea until one of his deputies gets badly hurt or killed

the taser is a tool that when used properly is unmatched for ending violent encounters (apart from putting acouple of .40 in someone) I wonder how the rank and file are going to feel if they lose an officer...

[DefenseLawyer]

10. Cops never use the taser in place of the gun.

They use it in place of the baton or the boot.

[vadawg]

11. yup i know that, the point was its the best thing to stop violence other than going to my glock

its just a tool like any other...

[DefenseLawyer]

12. Well that's the problem

The "idea" behind the taser was to have a tool to use non-deadly (or at least much less deadly) force in place of shooting someone in certain situations. In my experience I rarely see situations where an officer could have used his gun where he used his taser instead. If he feels the need to shoot, he'll shoot. I'm not saying that is a wrong judgment, only that the taser doesn't reduce the use of deadly force. In reality the taser is employed in places where an officer would have traditionally used non-deadly force anyway. Instead of tackling somebody or whacking them with the stick, they hit them with the taser. And unfortunately, the taser more often ends up killing someone than traditional nondeadly force and because it's easy, it is employed in more and more cases for no force was needed at all.

[vadawg]

13. i disagree with you, the taser is deployed daily all over teh country

and with succesful outcomes, im all in favour of my using the taser when dealing with a violent subject rather than wrestling them to the ground or getting in a lugging match with them, theres just to much chance of me losing. Its easy to say cops dont need the taser, they should be able to fight better etc etc etc but out in the real world fights are not like th movies, and if i lose a fight i could end up losing my life...

[seabeyond]

14. this is a real duh. if the situation escalates to losing an officer, pull the fuckin gun

instead of a taser.

that is what the gun is for

but no... you want to use a preceived guilt for a preceived situation to use a tool that is abused and can end a life, in a non threatening situation

[vadawg]

15. lol okay heres the scenario, i stop you, you get violent, i can

A use the taser and the fight is over, B try to restrain you physically, we get into a fighting match, i lose, you take my weapon and im dead. Its not as easy as i know the situation is life threatening right from the onset, things escalate. The point is the taser is the best tool for stopping the fight right at the onset, what you call non life threatening is easy to say sitting on your computer but on a country road at night how the fuck am i to know that the situation especially whne you start to act violentlyis not going to end in my demise....

[seabeyond]

16. you should be angry at the many many fellow officers that used the taser as a fun toy against 14 yr

old HANDCUFFED girl cause she said fuck on halloween night to an nonuniformed police. or tasered the young woman that didnt get out of car fast enough for him, in a school zone after dropping kids off cause she was in jammies or tasering a guy 19 times until dead.

with your attitude, to use as a tool, nonleathal (though it takes lives) is the very reason for the backlash. you see it as an easy answer to whip out and use, because of what might happen, someone didnt jump to you command fast enough so inflict pain, why waste your time.

it is the officers that abused this toy

and it is the officers that created the environment where police chiefs are now looking twice at the "tool".

be angry at your fellow officers. but i gotta say, by your very own opinion and expressions of the use of the taser, you would have me concerned pulling me over.

[vadawg]

17. why would you be concerned, as long as you didnt decide to fight me

then you would get the lecture, or if needed the ticket. i got better things to do than have to go to court to defend my actions, but if you decided that you were going to put me at risk or any of my fellow deputies then i would use force on you, and i would have no second thought on it, but seeing as i pull over a lot of people when im on the road and the vast majority go with no problems whatsoever teh chances of me having to get physical with you lie totally within your control.

[seabeyond]

18. i had a cop call house the other day asking for money. he identifies adn says"dont worry, you arent

in trouble". and laughs, at his joke.

no fuckin shit i am not in trouble, ha ha. arent you the funny one. call my home and try to place me in a position of weak.

listen to you

it is a self righteous need for power and control over the other. it ooozes off some officers. and it raises the hackles. but then, having done your job long enough, you really know what you are doing all along.

it is a game.

and i dont play

[vadawg]

19. no idea what the heck this has to do with me stopping you on the street

or how that stop is going to go, i always laugh at the broadbrush stuff as well, if i told you that i had to draw my weapon on a hispanic male with a machete the other day does that mean that every hispanic male is carrying a machete????

[seabeyond]

20. of course it means nothing to you. a behavior raises the regular joes irritation. the police

know they are doing it. and they do. so ha ha.... you think being cute and i say fuck you. only in a way without a cuss. now YOU are irritated and escalate some more. cause after all, i am to be intimidated, know my place.

there are police that adopt an attitude, and if one doesn't lower eyes, put tail between leg, submit enough....

because the perk of the job for many police is to have that sense of control over another human. to have the power and the recipient submit. and if they dare not be intimidated, then they are at fault and what comes their way as a repercussion for not submitting is all the excuse a cop needs.

i hear it in you. that is why i would be wary of you.

by god, we had all better know our place, not ruffle your feathers, lower our eyes and then we can be on our way.

taht man was asking money FROM me. yet he put me in a catagory of nothing more than a criminal, or perspective criminal. ya.... it is offensive to me. now i am irritated. and i dont respond or react with a smile. what is your next step?

[vadawg]

22. okay heres the survival guide to dealing with the popo the world over

dont give us any reason to fear for our own safety, if the cops being an ass, go along for the ride, complain later, if you are being arrested comply and fight it later in court, dont ever think its okay to fight the cop on the side of the road, either he is going to kick your ass or worse, or your going to win and a choice to make of either running or finishing him off... i deal with people who are assholes every day, i get teh attituse, cursed at called a racist everything, but if i let it all get to me i would be in court every fucking day and do nothing but write reports....

[Shell Beau]

43. What I will say is that none of us know what cops go through on a daily

basis. Unless you are a cop, or have walked in their shoes, it is easy to say what they need to or should do. I could never be a cop myself. I am thankful for the good ones that we have though. They have a very tough and thankless job. They may have chosen the job, but it doesn't make it any easier. I hate tase guns. But I think they can be useful in certain situations. They are abused, and that is the sad thing. If they were always used as I believe they were intended, it would be a non-issue.

[seabeyond]

21. and you casually ignore all the cases where it is the COP that abuses the toy. causes you to be

in the position that you are in. why arent you angry at your fellow cops that abuse. that dont wait to actually being threatened but use it to punish because the girl didnt become sudmissive. taser her because they wanted to put her in her place.

taser because they are using it as punishment for a crime they preceive, and generally to their imbalanced feel of power. ego.

[vadawg]

23. you know something i leave all that concern to others, to the courts etc etc

im getting to the point were i realise its worthless to try to explain any use of force on DU because no one hear actually wants to understand mayby why stuff happens. Its like everyone already knows all the answers and it dosent matter what the evidence might say, and no one ever wants to hear why the cops react in certain ways to certain situations...

[seabeyond]

24. i think that is a two way street. the post above to me.... your post to me, telling me how to

behave is totally talking past me in the very attitude i am talking about. none of it is relevent to me. none of it means a damn thing to me. i am a middle aged female, upper middle class, with little lawbreaking going on (i speed, always have, always will and will pay when caught). that is it. nothing more.

yet... you talk past the issues and lecture me on behavior to not get my ass kicked on the side of the road

i am your supporter. i am the one that has stood behind cops, supported cops all my life. and i see real issues in police forces that are ignored as they say, .... done talking. no one wants to hear where we are coming from so fuck em

that is exactly what the issue is today and why people like me are not supporting cops.

not gonna hurt me. but is going to hurt police force. is HURTING the police force.

i am NOT the criminal. quit treating me like the god damn criminal. quit treating every person you come into contact with like a god damn criminal. and we wont treat every cop like a power hungry ego driven asshole.

you guys have created the atmosphere you live in. YOU guys as a whole create this. YOU guys are the ones to fix it. we the people can help, but we cant if you dont own your part.

you think i am the enemy. i am not. i am the one that WANTS to support you

[vadawg]

25. i hate to tell you this, but at this exact moment i have a block of females in front of me

a number of them fit your description to a t, one of them is here for assault on a police officer and she looks like somebodies mom, do you have any idea how dangerous a roadside stop is for a cop from other vehicles to the actual subject themselves. I cant afford to not think you may not be the lady standing in front of me in the block when i pull you over as my life could depend on it. You see unlike you who for some reason thinks that violent criminals are like movie bad guys with waxed mustaches etc etc i see violence every day coming from all types of people so i know firsthand that anyone i come into contact with could be the one that means i dont get to go home.

[seabeyond]

26. nah.... you have your world you create, and that is what you want so you will continue

to make it be. it supports your needs.

done

enjoy your world.

[vadawg]

27. rofl, you enjoy yours too....

[Brooklyns_Finest]

31. Damn

Now you are scared of middled aged white women attacking you? Unfortunately, I know a few cops personally, and even they wouldn't make your last argument. I mean really, why get in to a profession where you are afraid of everyone you deal with?

[vadawg]

34. lol nothing to do with being afraid its being smart, how many murderers do you think are out there

who are middle aged mothers, think about it every group on the planet has its psychos and killers, talk to your friends the cops they will be able to tell you of someone from every demo you can think of who went nuts or was a stone cold killer or an EDP.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

36. Off subject

I have two friends who are in law enforcement. I grew up with one and worked with the other. One is an NYPD detective, she is actually pretty cool. Her family is full of criminals, so she has a good understanding of what and who real criminals are. I haven't asked her, but I don't think her main priority is worrying about middle aged suburbanites attacking her.

I used to work with the other guy, but he left our agency to work for ICE. He is also a real cool dude. He can't stand the LAPD (I used to live in LA). Apparently, LAPD does not like ICE for some reason. What I find funny about my friend is that when we go out for drinks, he wants to take his firearm with him. I'm like for what? His big brother is even more annoyed by this and tells him to leave that shit home. We laugh at him about the gun thing; we think that him having a gun really makes him feel powerful for some reason.

I am pretty familiar with law enforcement. I am a security specialist for a large government agency. As a job function, I have to deal with Federal Protective Service and OIG daily. I really appreciate what those guys do. However, I am pretty sure that none of these agencies are issued tasers to do their jobs. Why is it different for the local PD?

[vadawg]

38. probuably because the feds dont have to deal with someone on a dark country road alone at night

or answer calls froma barfight, or have to respond to reported screams coming from a home, if you cant see the difference between the job a fed does and the patrol officer does then i can see why you dont see the need for a taser. As to why someone carries his weapon all the time, i dont know his story but i am armed 24/7 due to my having been greenlighted by criminal street gangs, your friend may also be in danger due to his job and not prepared to talk about it.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

39. I see the difference

I grew up in the inner city and know what cops have to deal with. I just don't like the way most cops are rigid in their way of thinking and not willing to see the other persons point of view. I was also in a Marine reserve units in Buffalo and Albany, NY. We had a lot of local cops in our unit. So I knew these guys on a personal level. I was always turned off by their level of arrogance and self righteousness.

What I did learn is that the only time a cop will tell the truth about another cop is when they have to deal with another force. Example, my old company commander was a NY State trooper. Decent guy, I guess. The Albany PD guys in our unit hated the State Troopers. You want to know why? It was because the troopers would not give the local cops a break when they were stopped for speeding or DUI, etc.


That is all I have on this subject.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

28. Find another job

If you can't do your job with the tools you are provided, then find another job. I say tasers are a tool to keep fat and lazy cops who could not pass the detective test on the streets.

[vadawg]

30. lol okay rambo, im sure that you can take anyone down with just a stare...

[Brooklyns_Finest]

33. How long has tasers been used?

Seems like your brothers in blue did just fine using verbal commands pepper spray and batons prior to the implementation of tasers.

[vadawg]

35. lol and you dont think getting hit with a baton wasnt dangerous

or that being beaten by the brown or blue wave wasnt dangerous, lol you really cant be serious if you dont see how there are dangers inherent in any physical altercation.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

37. True

But a cop understood the seriousness of using a baton on a person. Would a cop use a baton on someones grandmother or 14 year old kid? Probably not, but it appears as if they will use a taser on these types of people. Like I said earlier, there are better and more sensible ways of defusing a situation.

[Tim01]

40. * Laughing AT you*

Are you in high school?

[DefenseLawyer]

29. I can tell you many many examples

where the taser was used to "gain control" of someone that was already under control. I had a client that suffered an epileptic seizure while driving and was in an accident. Paramedics arrive, he's still seizing, they figure it out. Cop comes to "investigate" the guy in the ambulance, doesn't know what's going on, guy kicks the cop (involuntarily). Pissed off cop tazes the guy.

Guy takes an overdose, concerned family calls police when he doesn't answer the phone. Police come in find him semiconscious in his bathroom, lodged against the door. Cops demand he open the door. He's unable to respond. Cops think he is belligerent (not aware he is out of it). Finally push the door in. Pissed off cop tazes the guy.

You see the theme here. Pissed off cop tazes the guy, or kid or old lady. Happens all the time. That's the issue. Cops using this sometimes deadly force to punish people who piss them off. You can't seriously be arguing that tasers are only used when someone tries to fight an officer. It's too easy to use, it is used indiscriminately and it kills people.

[vadawg]

32. on the other hand you cant argue that only pissed off cops use the taser

once again do you have any idea how many times the taser is used a day all over the world, ill state it again its a tool that when used is the best fight stopper there is, will it be misused yes of course it will, do other people misuse tools and get people killed? of course they do, but you are never going to get me or anybody else who actually has to deal with the idiots we come across to agree that the taser has to go. We have different opinions on it because we see different results, you see your clients, i see the dude who would probuably be able to kick my ass totally taken out of the fight, its to do with different perceptions.

[TexasObserver]

42. If you want to know why so many citizens figure most cops are bad, read your posts.

You see, most cops don't use the same measurement as citizens. To us, a good cop is one who does what we tell him to do, and who realizes we are his boss, not the other way around.

Just like I expect a waitperson to take my order or a teller to handle my deposit, I expect you to do your job without abusing citizens. And I'm the judge of what is reasonable by you, not you.

If you want to live in a police state, where you don't have to answer to us, there are several in the world that would have you.

[ipaint]

7. Rank and file citizens seem to be getting tired of losing fellow citizens.

Good for the sheriff.

[Zix]

9. a REAL policeman.

more of him, please.

[TexasObserver]

41. Ft. Worth is one of the more conservative areas of the state, too.

Ft. Worth is home of Texas Christian University, which should be named "Texas Upper Class Christian but can't get into SMU or Baylor University."