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Molly Ivins would be very upset at how our party caters to the religious right.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 12:53 AM
Original message
Molly Ivins would be very upset at how our party caters to the religious right.
Edited on Sat Oct-31-09 01:12 AM by madfloridian
I think of her often. In fact it will be 3 years in January that she left us. I see how we are fearful of including abortion rights in health care, how we are allowing public tax dollars to go to failing religious schools which become charters instead of our strengthening our public schools. She would have a lot to say.

I wrote this in January, but it is true today.

I wrote it at that time because the appointment of a party chairman who thinks we need to speak openly and publicly about our religion has my dander up. He is even against civil unions, against a woman's right to choose her medical care. Also the choice of a minister for the inauguration who feels women are inferior to men and who considers gays and lesbians to be living in a sinful life style...infuriates me.

Molly never spared words.

Here is one of her columns from 2004 about mixing religion and politics. I found it at a blog called No More Apples.

I long ago learned to shy away from the stink of sanctimony. We are all familiar with pietistic hypocrites and spiritual humbugs wearing dog collars. I doubt that the clergy is more afflicted with canting Pharisees than the legal profession is with sleazy chiselers, but neither type is exactly rare.

..."Two hundred years of not terribly rigid separation of church and state has given us one precious gift. As a quote attributed to James Madison (never been able to find the correct citation on it) put it, "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries." Religious strife is still soaking the soil with blood, isn't it, in Kosovo and elsewhere. To the extent that politics should be based on moral and ethical considerations, of course it has religious foundations. But dragging God into partisan politics is a sin.

Is it Christian to cut money for Head Start? Is it Christian to cut poor children off healthcare? Is it Christian to cut old people off Medicare? Is it Christian to write memos justifying torture? Is it Christian to cut after-school, nutrition and AIDS programs so multimillionaires can have bigger tax cuts? Historically, the Bible has been used to justify some stupefying crimes, including slavery and genocide. I see no indication that we are any better at divining the Lord's intent now than we ever were.

Ruining God's reputation

As regular readers know, I call upon the Lord rather frequently myself, often for patience in dealing with those who presume to speak in His name. To whatever extent each of us is affected by religion, I suppose we inevitably bring that into the public sphere. But I seriously question the wisdom of doing so in any organized or deliberate fashion. Drag God into politics, and you'll ruin His reputation in no time


Molly once talked to Bill Moyers about Texas Republicans and Christianity.

PBS transcript from 2003

MOYERS: I want to put this on the screen, so our viewers can see it. And then you tell me if it's true or not. These are the words of a state representative from Houston named Debbie Riddle. Quote: "Where did this idea come from, that everybody deserves free education? Free medical care. Free whatever? It comes from Moscow. From Russia. It comes straight out of the pit of hell." Now, do you know that that's true or not? Or is that just a work of fiction?

IVINS: No. That's absolutely true. That's one of our finer state representatives, not fully au courant on where the idea of free public education comes from.

MOYERS: You're talking about people who won the election. Republicans hold every statewide office in Texas now. They wouldn't be acting like this, would they, if they didn't have popular support?

IVINS: The Texas Republican party has been completely taken over by the Christian right. You're not looking at any kind of old-time Republicans. You're not looking at like, Poppy Bush Republicans, or people you would think of like that. These people really believe that public institutions should be destroyed. They're trying to destroy the schools. They're trying to destroy the welfare system. They don't think government should be used to help people.

And it's really not because they're mean. They really think that government is bad. And that we should be doing all this on our own, through the churches.
Well, the fact that that's not doable, that it's impossible, that it's an absurd proposition, is not something you can talk to these people about.


She speaks out again on people who force their religion into public life. From a 2005 column.

Molly Ivins column at Free Press.org

I have said for years about people in public life, "I don't write about sex, drugs or rock 'n' roll." If I had my druthers, I wouldn't write about the religion of those in public life, either, as I consider it a most private matter. Separation of church and state is in the Constitution because this country was founded by people who had experienced both religious persecution and state-supported religions. I think John F. Kennedy's 1960 statement to the Baptist ministers should stand as a model of how public servants should handle the relation between religious belief and public service.

Nevertheless, we are now beset by people who insist on dragging religion into governance -- and who themselves believe they are beset by people determined to "drive God from the public square."

This division has been in part created by and certainly aggravated by those seeking political advantage. It is a recipe for an incredibly damaging and serious split in this country, and I believe we all need to think long and carefully before doing anything to make it worse.

As an 1803 quote attributed to James Madison goes: "The purpose of separation of church and state is to keep forever from these shores the ceaseless strife that has soaked the soil of Europe with blood for centuries."


I wonder what she would have to say about Rick Warren giving the invocation at the inauguration.

But on the signal issues of the religious right he is, as he himself has said, as orthodox as James Dobson. And as inflammatory. Warren doesn't just oppose gay marriage, he's compared it to incest and pedophilia. He doesn't just want to ban abortion, he's compared women who terminate pregnancies to Nazis and the pro-choice position to Holocaust denial.


I am sure she would not remain silent if she were here to see the socially liberal chairman of the party being replaced with an admitted social conservative.

She would write a whole column about how 40 Democrats are trying to stop health care reform because it is not anti-choice enough.

She would ask why taxpayer money in Florida is going to rescue failing Catholic schools when money is desperately needed for public schools.

She would flat out ask why DADT and DOMA are still in effect.

And I would be saying as I always did....Amen, Molly Ivins.
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sakabatou Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 01:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. No truer words
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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
2. God I miss that chick
Molly abso-friggin-lutely pinned W's ass the the mat. She and Hightower called that one way early!

Shrub.... meh
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Electric Monk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
3. I wasn't really all that familiar with her until I read "Shrub". She was bang on. I miss her too.
Note my sig line, if you haven't already.

"I prefer someone who burns the flag and then wraps themselves up in the Constitution over someone who burns the Constitution and then wraps themselves up in the flag." — Molly Ivins
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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. O remember Molly warning us of George W Bush in Summer 2000
Did we fuckin listen??? NOT ENOUGH FOR SURE....

Molly....RIP....ya did your best....and besides...they stole the Damn Thing and hid behind the "LAW" ...like the scounrels they are...

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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
5. She is greatly missed...as is that other great lady from Texas, Ann Richards.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. I notice Cecile Richards is president of Planned Parenthood.
Another great lady from TX
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. She was one of a kind - and someone I would have
loved to have met in person. K&R
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. I would have loved to have met her.
:hi:
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 10:20 AM
Response to Reply #6
30. I Was SOOOOOOOO Very Fortunate To Have Met Her Several Times...
I posted something about it below!

And to you "waiting for hope", I'm sorry I didn't use the avatar you made for me, I've never thanked you. I also decided to keep my "power to the people" one because I would love to see that once again be part of our "society" which has seemed to evaporate these days!

I still haven't lost my thoughts and feelings about what "could" have been! Human frailties hurt a lot, but some pay more than others!

Thanks again!

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PurityOfEssence Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
7. Once again, and consistently, I stand up and personally blame Barack Obama
He actively brought religion into politics more than any other major presidential candidate I can think of. Well before the 40 Days of Faith and Family cringefest in South Carolina, he opted to actively court religion and bring it into tactical campaigning as well as justification for policy.

His stated intent was that we shouldn't simply surrender the religious issues to the reactionaries, but the net effect has been to further cram religion down our throats and reinforce the grievous blunder that religion is NECESSARY in politics, not merely useful. Whether "their" God wins our "our" God does, it's still further driven home that this guess is undeniable and endorsed by our government and collective consciousness.

I barf at this, and have since it started becoming more obvious from his campaigning way back when he started his run. Whether he really believes it or not doesn't much matter to me, it's his incessant use of it that does. Still, I give him credit for resisting hosting a prayer breakfast this year; perhaps he realized he'd gone too far.

Religion is simply too dangerous in the public sphere: it can't be argued against, and it doesn't have to justify itself. It is the ultimate shortcut, cheat and evocation of privilege, and it flies in the face of the rationality necessary for pluralism.

Hopefully people will come to their senses about this.

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Fumesucker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 03:56 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. +1
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Bluenorthwest Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. very well said
Obama was the only Democratic candidate in my memory to use openly bigoted hate preacher as part of his campaign, openly preaching against the minorities they don't like under Obama's official banner. Donnie McClurkin, Obama's hand selected master of ceremonies and the only person allowed to speak at events, spoke against gay people at those events, although he held back from his usual declaration of war against us, for, as he said "trying to kill our children". This is a hate speaker as bad as Phelps or Beck, and Obama defended him as a "good, decent and moral" person.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 07:31 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. i found it interesting Obama was quick to throw his long time
Edited on Sat Oct-31-09 07:32 PM by jonnyblitz
friend Reverend Wright under the bus for comments that offended the far right but he had no problems with the ex-gay preacher McClurkin or the other homophobe preacher Warren who he basically honored by allowing him to give the prayer at the inauguration. unfuckingbelievable.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thank you. I never met Molly in person, however we corresponded a bit.
I moved to Texas in 1981 and discovered Ms. Molly when she began writing for the Dallas Times Herald. She was a shining ray of sanity in the North Texas Republican asylum. Her take on politics-especially Texas politics (the "Leg")-was some of the best AND INSIGHTFUL political writing to be found anywhere.

Yes. Molly is sorely missed. And yes, she would not be thrilled to witness what the Democratic Party has become.
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
13. K & R
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colsohlibgal Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
14. RIP Molly
What a great blow it was when we lost this awesome woman.

Religion is fine - in it's place and peaceful - as in we believe what we believe but respect those that believe differently. That said it has absolutely no place in politics in any way. How Molly maintained her sanity in the midst of all the sanctimonious religious zealotry and bigotry in that state I'll never know. Of course most of the south and a place like Utah is not much different.

Insane religious zealotry is a huge problem from inside the country as well as outside the country - people who will do whatever necessary, including commit violence, to force their way of thinking and living on others.

Live and let live, do unto others - all wonderful ways of living your life, but the religious nuts have twisted God and Jesus (who in reality was a flaming socialist who sided with the poor and disadvantaged)into petty, vengeful types.

I know this, that all the religious mumbo jumbo is holding this country back.

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 02:38 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Nice post. "Religion is fine - in it's place and peaceful"
Amen to that. Respect those who believe differently.

I was raised in the Southern Baptist church, but I don't belong anymore. I don't recognize it right now.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. Nice /Weekend At Bernie's/ post; truth is no one knows what she'd say. n/t
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 01:40 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. Yeah they do,because unlike many in the current Democratic Party, Molly
had integrity and NEVER compromised her Democratic values. Molly didn't cater to the GOP nor did she contradict herself. Ever. Molly Ivins was tried and true and we have few of her kind left. She would have ripped into these crappy plans HCR for their lack of inclusion.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
17. Unrec it over and over....but it is the truth. It is happening.
Just like it did in the GOP.

Same ideology might be just switching parties.

So unrec and criticize, but don't ignore it.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
18. K&R. (nt)
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snake in the grass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
19. We need so many more Mollys.
Excellent piece, as usual.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 08:29 PM
Response to Original message
21. I was blessed with meeting Molly at the 2004 Dem Convention at the Emily's List Luncheon
Edited on Sat Oct-31-09 08:30 PM by flyarm
she hugged me..and we had a wonderful conversation! ..What an incredible woman she was. I had lived in Dallas for many years as a flight crew with an Airline based there..and she was so familiar with so many people I had worked with in my business and with the Democratic party. We had some delightful laughs and colorful conversation!

She is missed ...and she was one of a kind!

fly
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swilton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Oct-31-09 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
22. Religion = Anti-Intellectualism
In America
:kick:

We need more like Molly Ivins

:kick:
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
23. These people really believe that public institutions should be destroyed. They're trying to destroy
the schools. They're trying to destroy the welfare system. They don't think government should be used to help people.


Boy, did have them nailed. Why didn't this damned nation listen to her?
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 01:29 AM
Response to Original message
24. I love Molly.
:loveya:
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phasma ex machina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
25. Calvinist Puritans created America's first public schools in Massachusetts in 1647.
Old Deluder Satan Law promoted literacy for the sake of Bible reading. Throughout history Christians led the world in the creation of institutions of higher learning. Well over a hundred of America's first colleges use "The truth shall set you free" as their motto.
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 09:57 AM
Response to Original message
27. She used to criticize the Clintons for being corporatists, but the WHOLE party is that way!
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
28. Thank You "madfloridian" For Posting This About Molly... One Of My All
time favorites. I was blessed to see her here in my town right before the 2004 election at which time she sort of "conceded" the fact that "Shrub" as she called him just might prevail in 2004! And in doing so, her thoughts about what that would bring to this country.

She didn't look good at the time, but stayed long enough afterward to sign her most recent book. Strangely, she and I had met before as she called Austin her home. Being an Army brat, I spent 6 years in a place called Killeen, TX where Ft. Hood was based, and made frequent visits to Austin. She was never shy and was ever so witty and informative. I still have an old VCR tape where she talked about her stint with the NYT and her demise when she wrote about "Chicken Plucking" in a place in Texas! Very funny stuff, and informative as well. A whole hour on C-Span and it was great!

She, along with Bill Moyers have always been on TOP for me!!

She was such a fighter, but I REALLY wonder what she would be thinking about now! Given that she was just a little older than me, I wonder if she would feel the angst that I now feel. I'm lethargic at best even watching "news programs" these days. Good in some ways because I usually get my household chores done more regularly, and I fit in more reading. Even my time here at DU has gone way down because of all the infighting.

Thank you for remembering Molly and all the links you've provided, they're more than insightful! I also wonder at times how come many of the "best and brightest" left us way too soon! Anyone who ever saw her in person couldn't help but be infected by "how" she made her points and her incredible wit while doing so! I have missed her since she left, and think we sorely need her back!

ONE GREAT. "BAWDY" LADY! I'm grateful to have even been around her at times!!

Thanks again for the MEMORIES and the TRUTH!! You too have been a great inspiration here at DU!!!

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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
29. It's not so much our party any longer as is it more a default position.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
31. Molly Ivins was wonderful.
Young journalists need to step up and emulate her in style and substance.

Molly had the foresight to call the 'Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000' a "little horror".

She also predicted grave results due to the passage of the "Gramm-Leach Act". She said these banking institutions would become "to big to fail". And that is exactly what happened.

The rare journalist of Molly Ivin's caliber should be seen as America's shining stars. But, instead, many are actually trying to become more like Fox News and the Wall Street Journal, serving the interests of corporate America. And this is pathetic.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. Nance Gregg says it far better here.
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
33. I miss Molly Ivins too. She was so precise in her language.
So sad that the right wing push has been so thorough that it even defeated teaching civics classes that instill pride in our nation's separation of church and state.

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Union Yes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 12:15 PM
Response to Original message
34. Molly tried to warn us of BOOOshco. Sadly, not enough would listen to her.
RIP Molly, your still missed.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
35. k&r for the late, great Molly Ivins. n/t
:patriot:

:dem:

-Laelth
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Nov-01-09 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
36. K&R
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