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"Eat This Birthers": Obama Related to all but one US President!

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Blue State Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 06:04 PM
Original message
"Eat This Birthers": Obama Related to all but one US President!
From the mouth of babes (with the help of a grandfather who has studied Presidential genealogy for the past 60 years) comes this shocker!


SALINAS, Calif. -- A seventh-grader and her 80-year-old grandfather are allegedly the first people to discover that President Barack Obama is related to all other U.S. presidents except one.



BridgeAnne d'Avignon, who attends Monte Vista Christian School in Watsonville, traced that Obama, and all other U.S. presidents except Martin Van Buren, are related to John "Lackland" Plantagenet, a king of England and signer of the Magna Carta.



http://www.ksbw.com/news/21404492/detail.html#">NBC Affiliate KSBW

And from a Christian School no less! That's got to hurt!

Would you like some ketchup with that placenta Ms. Taitz?



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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
1. Then they're all illegitimate!
Anarchy!!!!
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Blue State Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Gem in the comment section on link...
"In a related story, Fox News declares Martin Van Buren the greatest president ever!"

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joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. Wonderful!
And it's not made up...I bet they do tonight!
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #2
41. But...but...he was a... a... **DEMOCRAT**!!!!
:wow:
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Jack Rabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. I suppose we're all descended from the collateral branch of a blue blooded family
Edited on Wed Dec-02-09 06:10 PM by Jack Rabbit
Noble males had a terrible time keeping their pants up.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #3
19. almost all Irish are descended from Niall of the Nine tails, a ferocious
king who had about 64 kids. Cool, no?
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. I once read that a full 1/3 of Europeans
are descendants of Charlemagne. It points out a fundamental flaw with genealogy: living vicariously through some accomplished ancestor is fapping personified, Jagoff. Go out and make your own mark in the world and stop trying to bask in the reflected glory of a famous forebear.
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Blue State Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Please explain the "Jagoff" reference?
Is there a Mr. Jagoff that wrote this article you are referring to? I only ask because you may have misread, mis understood, or misplaced something on or about this post.
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Cirque du So-What Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Not you
I was referring to those who try to garner some glory from some accomplished ancestor. I've seen it countless times, and I stand by my assessment that they're jagoffs.
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Blue State Bandit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. Gotcha. And you are right. I've seen it as well.
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tblue37 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #4
9. One _Harper's Magazine_ statistics page said that there is a 1 in 200
Edited on Wed Dec-02-09 06:44 PM by tblue37
chance that a male alive today is directly descended from Ghengis Khan.

Obviously the odds are better for Asian men than for Western European or Native American men, but still, to average out to 1 in 200--that's quite an astonishing number.
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theoldman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 06:21 PM
Response to Original message
5. That's nothing, I am related to Adam and Eve.
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TroglodyteScholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
12. And I to Micky Mouse. n/t
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. That's nothing, I am related to Adam and Steve.
:D
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MissMarple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 06:24 PM
Response to Original message
6. Many Americans are related to the Plantagenets. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. Wow. You sound just like them.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 06:12 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. I can't believe I am reading this by a DUer
it's good we have someone on the board with such, er, "important" concerns

(walks away shaking head in disbelief)
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 06:40 AM
Response to Reply #26
32. An actual birther
hiding out on DU! Stealth Republican!
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JustinL Donating Member (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 06:15 AM
Response to Reply #22
28. the identity of his father is irrelevant to his qualification for the presidency
Besides, the document he provided lists the name of his father: Barack Hussein Obama Sr.

The Schwarzenegger argument is equally laughable. The birthers are claiming that if someone obtains an office after fraudently misrepresenting themselves as meeting a qualification for the office, then the qualification is negated. What is the legal basis for that claim?
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #22
29. how could he have been born in Kenya when the record of his birth is in Honolulu? (nt)
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #22
42. "Probably"?!?
"if he's got nothing to hide"

BWAH HA HA HA

I always wondered about you, but now I know.
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-04-09 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
45. Dammit! I missed all the fun, and most of the deleted messages.
Well, that one's had a pizza due for some time now. :)
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Hekate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 03:09 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. The proof has been provided long since. I don't know why any DUer doesn't know that.
The State of Hawai'i Department of Health has rather properly denied birthers the opportunity to just go physically rummaging around in everybody's files looking for a way to disprove what has already been proven. You know that's what the birthers want, because they've been pretty explicit about it.

Instead, the birth certificate that we have all seen online and in print is exactly what anyone else will get if they were born in Hawai'i and ask for a copy of same. The Dept of Health has gone electronic and has changed the form. Forms change over time and from state to state.

Furthermore, as is customary, the Health Bureau placed a birth announcement of the Obama baby in the local newspaper Births, Marriages, Deaths section, along with the Haae, Staley, Raymond, Arakawa, Takahashi, Brown, Caberto, Clifford, Walker, Durkin, Nagaishi, Kamealoha, Earnest, Chun, Waidelich, Simpson, Liu, Wright, ah! there's Obama!, August 1961 was certainly a busy month on O'ahu, and Hatchle, and Wong babies. Congratulations to the happy families and proud parents. In the middle of the column are two separate ads for Kaneda's Luau Supplies, no doubt because of the local custom of throwing a huge first birthday party called a baby luau.

Photocopies of that have been put online as well -- how very odd that a baby with a completely unique name would be suspected of not being the POTUS of the same completely unique name.

My kids were born in Hawai'i (1975 and 1978) and their birth certs look remarkably like Barack Obama's. My daughter lost her original and the replacement has less information on it. :shrug: Big deal.

Hekate

One of the many links to the Honolulu Advertiser 8-13-1961 Health Bureau Statistics column
http://buzznewsroom.com/politics/obama-1961-birth-announcement-from-honolulu-advertiser/ click on the image to make it larger.
and of course there's always Snopes
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/birthcertificate.asp
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
JustinL Donating Member (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 03:57 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. what is the relevance of the name of the hospital or the name of the doctor?
The document he released lists his place of birth as Honolulu. Case closed.

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 06:13 AM
Response to Reply #23
27. hey, he showed it--where were you?
Edited on Thu Dec-03-09 06:20 AM by ima_sinnic
absolutely unbelievable. are you also sending money to Orly Taitz? :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :wtf:

on edit: just reread your post and see you say "I don't know where he was born." DU becomes more and more entertaining, in a surrealistic way, every day. Sometimes I feel I have entered the Twilight Zone.

I can only ask: WHY don't you know where Obama was born? as with all birthers, nothing will ever satisfy you, will it? Only a time machine that could travel back to 1961 and enter a delivery room at the moment of birth would convince you, wouldn't it? THat's because those who are threatened by a "foreign-looking" black man (OMG, the horror!!!) will never accept that he could actually be elected to and serve in the highest office in the land.

Please pursue this, though. Orly needs you!!
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 06:43 AM
Response to Reply #23
33.  "The birthers are kooky but
Edited on Thu Dec-03-09 06:44 AM by Enthusiast
no kookier than some people on the left"

Lost your cover, your camouflage, and betrayed your true identity. Take a hike freeper.
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JustinL Donating Member (439 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #13
25. any "proof" he gave the birthers would be dismissed as a forgery
You and I both know it.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
31. Stealth Republican alert!
If you don't mean what you are saying you should use the little "sarcasm" smiley.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #31
43. the elusive tombstone has been hovering for years for that one
but never seems to get delivered
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #13
40. Hawaii did prove it. They're the ones with the documents.
Try to keep up.
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kestrel91316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
14. I've got that Lackland dude in my ancestry, too. FWIW, lol.
I gave up on European genealogy - it will take several lifetimes of work to fully trace all my AMERICAN ancestors alone. I casually did a little peek at the Europeans I have traced so far, and when I found 17 lines of descent from Charlemagne, I sort of threw up my hands and walked away from it. Too many names. Too confusing.

Like I said, I have my hands full with 380+ years' worth of Americans.......
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
15. Anybody who does genealogy research KNOWS
that you can go thru the evidence and link yourself to anybody you want. What is real research is linking yourself to the facts. Not what you want the facts to be.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
AnnieBW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-02-09 10:58 PM
Response to Original message
18. "Prince John" of Robin Hood fame
BTW, King John "Lackland" Plantagenet was the "Prince John" who was attempting to stage a coup against Richard the Lionheart in the Robin Hood mythos. He had five legitimate children, and a whole bunch of illegitimate ones. So, obviously, he spread his DNA around. :D It must have been pretty good DNA, to have his descendants survive the Black Plague.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
30. "Would you like some
ketchup with that placenta Ms. Taitz?"


:rofl:
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
34. Republicons will luv them this
since they are SO into elitism...
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DailyGrind51 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
35. Remember, he and Cheney are distant cousins!
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #35
38. cousin of bush's, too. also truman & johnson,
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
36. obama is fairly closely related to several presidents,
almost every president is.

Besides which:


Common Ancestors: Frances BURDETTE + Burr HARRISON (1637)
--------------------------------------------------------
|				 |         
Thomas(1665)+Sylvia		Sybil(1669)+Thomas                  
HARRISON     SHORT		HARRISON   WHITTLEDGE
|               |                         |
HARRISON       HARRISON             WHITTLEDGE
+ BARNES       + BULLITT              +OVERALL
|                  |                       |
HARRISON           BULLITT              OVERALL
+   POWELL          (3)                   (4)
|         |
POWELL     POWELL     
(1)        (2)



(1) = 6 generations to Brit Hume
(2) = 5 generations to Katherine Hepburn
(3) = 4 generations to Dorothy Stimson Bullitt, Seattle
philanthropist
(4) = 8 generations to Barack Obama


4.  OBAMA Line:  Ancestor Thomas WHITLEDGE shows up in the
historical record in Prince William County, Va. in the
neighborhood of the Hugenot Brentown Grant.  In 1710 he
received part of a 900-acre piece of land.  

His son William migrated to  Kentucky with wife Frances
OVERALL.  She was his cousin.  According to one descendant,
"The Whitledges and Overalls have married each other so
many times that they are known as country cousins". 

The WHITLEDGES began their migration to Kentucky in 1775, when
brother Robert WHITLEDGE went to Kentucky with Daniel BOONE.  

Boone's "Boonesboro" (of which Hume ancestor Levin
POWELL became trustee) originated as a business deal.  In
1774, Richard Henderson of North Carolina formed a land
speculation company (The Transylvania Company) with other
prominent North Carolinians.  They "bought" 1/2 of
present-day Kentucky, 20 million acres, from the Cherokee.  

The purchase was illegal, since at the time law forbid private
land purchases from the tribes - the right was reserved to the
government & crown.  The Company hired BOONE to blaze a
road into Kentucky for future settlers (who would buy land
from the Company).  

However, in 1776 the Virginia General Assembly negated the
Transylvania Company's authority.  This is when POWELL became
trustee.  In 1778 the Company's claim was declared void.

Many Virginians migrated to Kentucky during this era, among
them Abraham LINCOLN's father, Thomas & his parents.

By 1782, the entire WHITLEDGE family was in Kentucky.  In
1792, Revolutionary War vet John OVERALL Jr. & wife
Frances nee WHITLEDGE were in Bullitt County, home of the
BULLITT ancestors.  Their son Robert's wife Annie Browning was
a descendant of early Kentucky settlers, Revolutionary War
veterans, & a Chief Justice of the Virginia colony.

In 1850 Robert's son George Washington OVERALL is on the
Kentucky census with his extended family, farming with six
slaves.  On the 1860 census, he & his nuclear family are
farming with 1 slave.  

His wife, Louisiana DUVALL (1823), was a 3rd
great-granddaughter of the wealthy Huegenot immigrant Mareen
DUVALL of Maryland.  VP CHENEY & President TRUMAN also
descend from him, & by 1800, their various related
ancestors are all in Kentucky.

OVERALL daughter Susan shows up on the Missouri census of 1880
married to Christopher Columbus CLARK, farmer. CLARK was born
in Missouri in 1846; his father was also a Missouri farmer. 
His mother, Elizabeth DAVIS,  was a relative of Jefferson
DAVIS. 

Citizens of Missouri had been divided on the issue of the
Civil War.  Consequently, several state militias were
organized, some for the Union, some for the Confederacy. 
CLARK fought 51 days of active service for the Union in the
69th Regiment of the Enrolled Missouri Militia.

In 1910 CLARK's daughter Gabriela is on the Kansas census
married to Harry ARMOUR, a traveling salesman for a coal
company.

In the 1920 census the ARMOURs are living in Wichita, Kansas. 
The household includes father-in-law Christopher Columbus
CLARK, ARMOUR daughter Ruth (19), her husband Ralph Waldo
Emerson DUNHAM (26), & the couple's two children.  The
youngest is Stanley DUNHAM, President OBAMA's grandfather, 
nearly two years old.

Harry ARMOUR is listed as an "oiler" in the oil
fields.  Son-in-law DUNHAM is listed as "auto
mechanic" (possibly a not-so-common occupation in 1920,
12 years after the introduction of the Ford Model T.) 
Inexplicably, the "Occupation" column for the
widowed Christopher Columbus CLARK, age 74, reads "own
ship".  

DUNHAM's father Jacob was in Witchita too.  He is variously
listed as a "drug manufacturer" or
"pharmacist" in the same period.

Ruth ARMOUR committed suicide in 1926.  In the 1930 Kansas
census, her widowed husband Ralph W.E. DUNHAM is living in his
father's household in Witchita, working as a druggist.  Father
Jacob is now listed as a "physician" (v. earlier
listings as drug manufacturer & pharmacist).

Ralph's children, Ralph Jr. & Stanley, are living with
their ARMOUR grandparents in El Dorado, Kansas. Harry ARMOUR
is now a "Pumper" holding an "oil lease". 
Daughter Doris, sister of deceased Ruth, is a stenographer at
an "oil company office".

According to President OBAMA, the oil lease was with Standard
Oil.  It's not clear what happened between 1920, when Harry
ARMOUR was a Witchita-based "oiler," and 1930, when
he was a Standard Oil leaseholder in El Dorado.  

In 1915, drillers struck oil in El Dorado, & its
population boomed from 20,000 to 40,000. "Within weeks of
striking oil on the Stapleton, representatives of oil
companies such as the Carter Oil Company, an affiliate of
Standard Oil; Empire Oil, an affiliate of Cities Service; and
Gypsy Oil, an affiliate of Gulf Oil; began flooding into El
Dorado, looking for landowners who would lease lands for oil
exploration."  

The El Dorado field became the most productive single field in
the US.   

The public record doesn't elaborate on how ARMOUR acquired the
land in El Dorado that he leased to Standard oil.  However, it
appears the family did well during the Depression years.

ARMOUR's grandson Stanley Armour DUNHAM would grow up to
marrry Madelyn PAYNE.  In 1930, her family lived near El
Dorado, in Augusta.  Her father, Rolla Charles, was a
bookkeeper with an oil company.  Other family members are
listed as "oil drillers" in census data.  Madelyn's
grandfather Charles PAYNE, 68, was a Kansas City cattle
dealer.  

(Interestingly re the cattle connection, Stanley DUNHAM's 3rd
great grandmother was Catherine Goodnight, second cousin once
removed of Charles Goodnight, cattle dealer & pioneer of
the Goodnight cattle trail from Texas to New Mexico. 
Catherine was also a first cousin once removed to President
Truman's great grandmother, making Truman & Obama 4th
cousins, four times removed.)
  
Though Augusta & El Dorado are less than 15 miles apart
& both families worked in the oil industry, PAYNE
supposedly met DUNHAM in Wichita at a big band concert in
1940.  She would have been about 17, he about 22. He was a
furniture salesman.  They married the same year, right before
Madelyn's HS graduation - without her parent's knowledge, some
sources say.  

Stanley PAYNE entered the army, & Madelyn worked in
Boeing's Wichita plant building the B-29 bomber.  PAYNE was
apparently stationed at Ft. Leavenworth for at least part of
the war; Madelyn gave birth to daughter Stanley there in 1942.
 

Fort Leavenworth is known as the "Intellectual Center of
the Army." During WWII, "an accelerated course was
taught at the Command and General Staff College. In the 27
wartime classes, approximately 18,000 officers, including Air
Corps, Navy, and Marine personnel, received general staff
training. These officers filled critically needed command and
staff positions in the divisions, corps, and armies, or in
similar units of the Air Corps and Service Forces."

Interestingly:

"Stanley’s older brother Ralph Emerson Dunham,
great-uncle to Barack, landed at Normandy's Omaha Easy Red
beach on D-Day plus four. [11][12] Before the Invasion of
Normandy, the brothers once met accidentally while Stanley
went in search of rations at the Hotel Russell in London,
where Ralph happened to be staying."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e0/Hotel_Russell_on_Russell_Square%2C_London_-_April_2007.jpg/300px-Hotel_Russell_on_Russell_Square%2C_London_-_April_2007.jpg

The Hotel Russell was allegedly a center for British
intelligence during WW2.

When Stanley left the service as a sergeant, the couple lived
a migratory life for about 18 years, moving from Kansas to
Oklahoma (1948-51), Texas (1951-52), Kansas again, California,
then Seattle/Bellevue (1955-60), with Stanley working as a
furniture salesman at each stop.  

This periphatic furniture-selling lifestyle doesn't seem to be
one that would provide a comfortable income, yet their
residence when Stanley Ann graduated HS (1960) was on Mercer
Island, even then a toney address.  The record says Madelyn
had previously helped support the family with restaurant work;
in Washington she became vice-president of a local bank. 

As soon as Stanley Ann graduated from high school, father
Stanley "got a better opportunity" in Hawaii.  The
family moved in 1960. Stanley Ann started at the University of
Hawaii. Madelyn started at the Bank of Hawaii the same year,
working her way up to VP in 1970.

Barack OBAMA was born August 1961.  Soon afterward, OBAMA Sr.,
son of a participant in Kenya's independence movement, moved
on to Harvard, but Stanley Ann didn't.  They were officially
divorced in 1964, & he returned to Kenya to work as an
economist in Kenya's Ministry of Finance.    

In 1967-72 Stanley Ann was in Indonesia & married to Lolo
Soetoro, also the son of a father involved in his country's
independence movement who was an army geologist at the time.
Soetoro eventually became a Mobil Oil consultant on government
relations. Stanley would go on to work for the Ford Foundation
& USAID on microcredit & other projects.  

The years of Stanley Ann's residence were in the immediate
wake of the unrest that brought Suharto to power in Indonesia,
in which both the Ford Foundation & the CIA are alleged to
have played a role.

In his book, Obama says Lolo Soetoro was conscripted to
"fight communist rebels" in the coup period.

That would likely be this:

"An attempted coup on 30 September 1965 was countered by
Suharto-led troops.[3] Suharto took control of the army, and
the coup attempt was blamed on the Indonesian Communist Party.
An army led anti-communist purge, killed over half a million
people, and Suharto wrested power from Indonesia's founding
president, Sukarno. He was appointed acting president in 1967
and President the following year."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suharto
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:45 AM
Response to Reply #36
37. russell hotel pix
Edited on Thu Dec-03-09 07:46 AM by Hannah Bell
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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
39. Our presidents are descended from bad King John????
Please remember that he only signed the Magna Carta because he was forced to.
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4_TN_TITANS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-03-09 09:51 AM
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44. Dynasty, anyone? n/t
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-04-09 07:36 PM
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46. K & R,,,,
Proof that we don't get to pick our presidents.
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