How Israel Screens For Terrorists....You'll like this.

[monmouth]

http://www.onejerusalem.org/2010/01/how-israel-screens-for-terrori.php


Perhaps not PC but I do like their safety record. If your nose gets out of joint with a few questions, that would be your problem I'm thinking.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Kind of like how Woolworths screened their lunch counters back in the '50s.

[JuniperLea]

3. Everyone knows that only brown people blow up planes...

I can only imagine what they used to do at Woolworth's lunch counters! The horror!

[ProdigalJunkMail]

24. yeah...cause there are no brown Jews... n/t

[jkshaw]

34. Sammy Davis, Jr. was a Jew

He converted to Judaism a few years after a near-fatal accident.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

41. there are tons of Jews from that part of the world

that you would be hard pressed to tell from a christian or a muslim also from that area...they don't screen based on race...they screen based on behavior and other things...

sP

[varelse]

57. Did you watch the video at the link

the words RACIAL PROFILING are used. They screen on ethnicity and religion. That's what the video is about.

Racial profiling is considered discrimination in the US and is illegal. That is one among many reasons I am thankful for our Bill of Rights - it applies to everyone, not just to one religious or ethnic group.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

61. i fly to and from israel...

i have been pulled aside for 'additional screening'...for 45 minutes...i am a white guy...traveling on business...i don't exactly meet what you seem to think the racial profiling is about...

sP

[Violet_Crumble]

66. And if yr an Arab or they realise yr a supporter of the Palestinians it's much longer than that...

Anyone who tries to insist that profiling doesn't happen is kidding themselves...

[varelse]

70. Again, did you watch the video from the OP?

They don't exactly talk around it.

[invictus]

95. +1

[varelse]

58. Or like how traffic cops across the nation still screen drivers today

:(

[Jim Sagle]

63. Actually not at ALL like that. But hey, you knew that.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

79. Actually, no, it's pretty much exactly like that.

And you like it because you're into that sort of thing.

[invictus]

96. +1

[YOY]

2. I know the Air Marshals...I have a good friend who is a high-up there.

We do not have the budget or the numbers for them to be on every flight...and the budget would be astronomical for this if we tried. The Israelis do have the money. Shit...they get money from us so they have the money.

As for the other stuff...

[northzax]

20. no, they have many fewer flights. and almost none internaly

remember, this is the security on the state airline, there's only El Al, not ten different airlines flying between 500 different airports. and with conscription, a nice base of multi-lingual people to use.

and you know where else the interview tactic is used? Schipol. I've been through it. obviously not perfect.

[SharonAnn]

25. Israeli security handles every airline flight to and from Israel. Not just El Al.

When I flew TWA there I was questioned on both ends by several Israeli security agents.

I was a young woman, traveling alone, not Jewish, not affiliated with a church group or tourist group. In other words, different from the usual passengers.

They were very polite, asked me questions about why I was going, where I was going, asked to see my tickets and travel itinerary printout.

It was OK.

Also, in Israel, anytime I entered a building that would have multiple people present (concert, department store, restaurant, etc.) all my carried pieces were searched. Purse, tote bag, etc. Just SOP because everyone's bags were checked.

[TwixVoy]

30. So you didn't get a full anal probe in the back room like the muslim behind you

so it must all be sunshine and roses since a nice white person like you got told to "move along". Must be just as easy for the "extra screening" non-whites get to enjoy.

[YOY]

49. That's what I insinuted...

n.t.

[proteus_lives]

4. We should be copying them.

30 years and no incidents, takeovers or what-not? It works and should be the standard.

[spanone]

5. so if they have one incident they have as many as us

[whatchamacallit]

14. There it is

Pre 9/11, we had various hijackings, committed by various people, from various parts of the world, for various reasons. Post 9/11, even one failed attempt results in a change of life for all of us.

[dysfunctional press]

62. they have WAY fewer flights every day.

we have nowhere NEAR enough sky marshals to have one on every flight.

[proteus_lives]

72. That's true.

I can't think of a situation for that other than the creation of a Sky Marshals sub-agency. And that may be too much of a boon-doggle.

[bik0]

6. Makes too much sense - will never happen here.

The PC crowd won't stand for it.

[marmar]

16. "The PC crowd"

:eyes: Please don't forget to tip the driver.....

[devilgrrl]

97. How about the feigned outrage/make shit up crowd?

How would you handle it?

[Bluebear]

103. "The PC crowd won't stand for it." -- asscarrot.

[whatchamacallit]

7. So what would be the first question at our airports

"Are you a christian?"? Thanks for the oh-so progressive WSJ piece on the virtues of racial profiling. :puke:

[Flaneur]

8. All you darkies get in that line over there.

[burning rain]

31. Israel has Falasha Jews, black & of Ethiopian origin, in addition to....

dark-skinned Yemeni Jews who look like Arabs of the region, among others.

[TwixVoy]

35. And one of the racists questions even admitted to in this propaganda video is

"are you a jew?"

If the answer is yes you get told to move along. If the answer is "I'm a muslim" you are subject to a full anal probe at the agents discretion. Just like how america should be, right buddy?

[burning rain]

40. I'm not aware of Islam being a race.

.

[TwixVoy]

42. oh I'm sorry mister white man

Your big brain outsmarted me. I forgot the other question "Are you white?"

[burning rain]

53. "White" or whatever other skin color isn't the issue.

There are Muslims of all races and ethnicities, including lily-white Muslims. Not surprising given that Islam's a missionary religion.

[ProgressiveProfessor]

60. Its not, and most muslims are not semetic...many people forget that in their righteous indignation

[Violet_Crumble]

84. No-one at DU has ever claimed Muslims are semitic...

They've claimed Arabs are. Are you getting confused between Muslims and Arabs?

[ProgressiveProfessor]

87. Many claim muslims to be a darker skinned racial group and call anti muslim feelings racist

[Sebastian Doyle]

9. Thom Hartmann was discussing the Israeli method this morning.

He sees it as more psychological profiling than racial profiling. I've never been to Israel so I don't claim any first hand knowledge of the system. On paper it sounds better than this ridiculous system the Chimp gave us, but it also allows the prejudice of whomever is doing the screening to enter into how they would evaluate what they consider a "risky" traveler.

[janx]

37. So they ask just what they feel like asking?

Doubtful. ;-)

[Sebastian Doyle]

56. No, from what Thom said, they're trained to ask some specific questions

The theory being that someone who doesn't have any alterior motives would be able to answer them without being agitated or whatever.

As I said, I haven't seen it done myself, just taking Hartmann's word for it. He's correct at least 98% of the time, so probably on this too.

[dysfunctional press]

64. they also have nowhere near the same number of planes/passengers to deal with.

it would be VERY difficult to do here what they do there.

[Sebastian Doyle]

67. It would take far less time than fucking X RAYing everyone in the airport.

Probably less than the useless bullshit they're already doing, to be honest. (taking off your shoes, etc.)

Or in my own experience, the TSA flunkie with "short guy syndrome" who decides the tallest guy in the line (which would usually be me) is going to "respect his authoritah", and is singled out for no valid reason.

[dysfunctional press]

68. a big part of their system is having an air marshall on EVERY flight.

it's simply not doable here.

[Statistical]

69. Why not?

The average flight involves dozens of people (from baggage handlers, ticket agents, TSA screeners, flight attendants, gate crew, flight crew, fuelers, cleaning crew, staff to provision the plane, air traffic controllers, inspectors, mechanics, flight surgeons, etc).


Would it take a lot of sky marshalls? Sure. But it currently takes MILLIONS of people to make the aviation system work.

It is like saying we could NEVER eat bread in the united states? Do you have ANY IDEA how many bakers it would take to feed 300 million people? That is why we have been eating raw wheat for last 200 years. Simply IMPOSSIBLE to hire enough bakers to bake bread for every American.


Another way to look at it. Figure a sky marshall works 40 hours a week, 30 of which are on flights.

30 * (52 - 4 for sick/vacation/holiday time) = 1440 flight hours per year. Average flight is say 2 hours = 720 flights.

720 flights * average of 100 tickets per flight = 72,000 protected tickets per year.

Say marshall's salary is $60,000 per year. To pay for it via a surcharge on tickets would be <$1 per ticket.

Can we do it with current number of marshalls? Of course not. Could we protect Amercia's streets if we reduced number of Police nationwide to 20,000? Of course not.

[dysfunctional press]

73. cost and training.

average flight time of 2 hours?

flight time starts when the plane pushes back from the gate, until it pulls into the gate on its arrival.
no way is the average flight time 2 hours.

air marshall pay ranges from 58K-84K

there are over 10,000 daily domestic flights in the u.s.- and that doesn't include outbound/inbound international flights.

air marshalls would need to be accomodated when they overnight away from home

right now, there are air marshalls on less than 1% of the flights in the u.s.

[Statistical]

77. Exactly. There are CURRENTLY less than 1% of the marshalls needed.

The Marshall program should be expanded 100x fold. Maybe not in one year but a 10 year plan to gain 100% coverage in a decade is not impossible.

Saying we can't do that would be like the US is suffering from a crime wave and the analysis shows it is because there are not enough cops. We only have 1% coverage. Saying 100% cover would requires hundreds of thousands of Police Officers. Of course it does. The US is very big place.


Even a sky marshall program expanded 100 fold would be a negligible cost compared to the entire US aviation operation.
Think of it this way; 1 plane = 1 sky marshall.
1 plane = 7-10 crew (flight crew + cabin crew).

If we can manage to fund, train, and pay for 7-10x as many aviation crew members we can fund and train a single sky marshall per plane.

If the cost and logistics are impossible to put a single security officer on each plane how do we manage every day to launch 10,000 aircraft each with a pilot, copilot, and cabin crew?

Flight crews are a negligble cost in aviation compared to fuel, planes (including interest), and landing/gate charges.

[MaxPlancker]

105. Because air marshals are not the solution

For three reasons. Reason one: Airlines already have 100's of air marshals on board every flight. They are called "passengers". Reason two: Once a bomb carrying terrorist, regardless of appearance, makes it onto a plane its game over anyway. Reason three: Terrorists, regardless of appearance, will always be a step ahead because they are not constrained by reasonable standards of behavior.

When you are dealing with someone who is willing to die to accomplish their goals you are reduced to a very small set of responses, none of which we, as a nation, are willing to employ. Until that changes we, as a nation, need to acknowledge that and accept the consequences.

[whatchamacallit]

10. Luckily for Israel all their terrorists are dark, swarthy, and muslim

this wouldn't have helped too much with Timothy McVeigh.

[Obamanaut]

18. I can't recall Timothy McVeigh having to pass through airport security

on his journey with the truck. Did I miss something?

Enough of the bombings/shootings directed against US targets have been by swarthy, middle-east connected (in some way), with Arabic sounding names, and often with what appears to be a two - three day growth of facial hair to warrant just a bit more of profiling.

Perhaps the US could take some pointers from Israel.

[whatchamacallit]

19. Dark or swarthy with "Arabic sounding names"... Think now, what US president would fit that profile?

WTF has happened to this place???

BTW, just because McVeigh's plan didn't happen to include an airplane, it doesn't nullify the point.

[Obamanaut]

21. Do presidents go through TSA checks on the way to board AF1? nt

[whatchamacallit]

23. FAIL! (n/t)

[TwixVoy]

27. The fu**ing point

is that a person who you would otherwise like to see subjected to a full anal probe at the air port due to his skin color and name can actually be a GOOD DECENT PERSON. But apparently that is lost on you.

[whatchamacallit]

32. His question is pointless

would it be ok to profile senator Obama, or candidate Obama? Or is it just for poor nobodies with muslim names?

[invictus]

93. +1

[janx]

43. The Israelis aren't concentrating on skin color.

That's the point.

[TwixVoy]

44. Oh ok

So concentrating on religion is better.

[janx]

48. From what I saw in that video, the emphasis is on where the passenger

is coming from, where the passenger is going, and why.

[Name removed]

55. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

74. Yeah, there are no Jewish terrorists motivated to kill by their religious views. Just ask Rabin.

Oh, wait...

[Bill McBlueState]

99. how do you propose the passenger's religion

be ascertained?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

54. There were plenty of white German jews gassed during the holocaust.

:shrug:

[bik0]

52. Current security protocol dictates that we all get anal probed...

You never know who could be packing PTEN in their undies...

Women, children, young and old. White, black, brown, yellow. Everyone is equally capable and has equal motivation to blow up the plane. No one should be spared the inconvenience of the anal probe. It wouldn't be right.

If everyone gets extra screening then it can't be called "discrimination" or "racial profiling". Everyone is presumed and prejudged to be a terrorist until proven otherwise by the anal probe.

[LeftishBrit]

33. Also plenty of Israeli Jews are dark and swarthy, and some even have Arabic-sounding names

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

22. "I'm not saying that all black men rape white wimmin..."

"but enough white wimmin have been raped by black men that maybe they should clear out of town by sundown..."

[Raineyb]

88. Yes you did miss something.

Whether the ignorance is by accident or design has yet to be determined.

[JCMach1]

82. Ummm... You have obviously never met some of the many red haired, blue eyed

Palestinians and Syrians...

[TwixVoy]

11. What kind of propaganda bull shit is this?

If you are naive enough to believe that the ONLY extra "inconvenience" a muslim gets is "1 or 2 questions" you probably would have belonged to the same group of fools who believe "separate but equal" was actually equal 60 years ago.

I notice once again a bunch of WHITE DUers who feel they should get special treatment from minorities support this idea.

Just wait until all you WHITE FOLKS get a free pass in your special whites only line only to find one of your white christian "pro-lifer" or "I can't stand a black man as president" friends decides to make a political statement by blowing up a plane now that he gets a free pass for being white and christian. You WHITE FOLKS always seem to have good "pro life" christians blowing up abortion clinics and federal buildings. A plane isn't a big step up from that.

[whatchamacallit]

17. Sporting an Obama avatar ta-boot (n/t)

[Eric Condon]

29. I agree with your point completely

but you should know, I'm a white guy and I don't have any pro-life or Obama-hating "friends."

[Rage for Order]

71. You seem to have quite a bit of rage against WHITE FOLKS

You might want to consider some psychotherapy to determine the root cause of your anger

[Hannah Bell]

81. thanks, dr. freud, for the internet diagnosis. you seem to have a case of

narcissomindreaderism.

They have drugs for that nowdays, you know.

[invictus]

89. +1

[Scurrilous]

12. Like it?

The South Africans love it!!1!


South Africa slams El AL for stringent security checks (12/15/09)

<snip>

"The flight route between Israel and South Africa is in danger of being cancelled, El Al airline said on Monday.

The Israeli airline was criticized by the South African government for its stringent security checkups, as documented on a South African television research show.

A reporter with a hidden camera filmed an El Al security guard allegedly discriminating against dark-skinned passengers at the airport check in.

As a result of the broadcast the South African government issued a request that Israel change its security procedures in the country, which El Al has denied on the basis that they are part of the company's flight regulations."

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1135011.html


El Al security officer deported from South Africa (11/20/09)

http://www.ynet.co.il/english/articles/0,7340,L-3808129,00.html

Foreign Ministry attempting to solve diplomatic crisis following TV program revealing Israeli airline's 'racist policy'

<snip>

"The South African authorities several days ago deported a security officer working for Israel's El Al airlines, who is employed by the Israeli Embassy in the country and has a diplomatic passport.

The authorities issued an ultimatum to Israel, saying that if an arrangement on the employment of El Al security guards is not reached by the end of the month, they would all be deported from South Africa.

The Yedioth Ahronoth daily has learned that the Foreign Ministry immediately sent out a team of diplomats to South Africa to negotiate the matter, in a bid to have security guards stay in the county in favor of El Al's Johannesburg-Tel Aviv flights.

The affair began about two months ago, when Jonathan Garb, who had worked as a security guard for El Al for 19 years, was fired. In an act of revenge, he revealed the Israeli airline' security methods to a prestigious South African investigative television program.

"We classify people on a racist, ethnic and even religious basis," he claimed. Garb said that during his training he had been sent to Israel for advanced studies and was hired by the Israeli security services. "We trained with weapons at a secret base where the special Israeli forces train. We used guns and submachine guns in face-to-face combat."

The program also sent a Muslim investigator with a hidden camera to El Al's security check station at a local airport. Within seconds, the man was stopped by an El Al security guard, who was later deported from the country. The program's reporter accused El Al of having a racist policy, of deceiving the South African authorities and of seriously violating the constitution."

[TwixVoy]

13. No no this can't be true! LIES!

No no this can't be true! Didn't you watch the 3 minute in depth propa.... I mean information video about how much dark skinned muslim folks just LOVE this process??? You know, the one that had a bunch of WHITE people telling you how much they like it and the fact they only have to deal with "1 or 2 more questions"?

[Name removed]

65. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zhade]

75. Pffft. What would dark-skinned South Africans know about racial profiling and discrimination?

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:

[Raineyb]

15. People who try to justify racial or ethnic profiling are usually those who

are not likely to "immediately attract suspicion." It's not magnanimous if the odds are that YOU aren't going to be profiled.

[TwixVoy]

26. "Perhaps not PC but I do like their safety record"

But monmouth - I thought you just posted this for informative purposes? But here you are saying "You'll like this".

So which is it?

[TwixVoy]

28. Crickets.... knew it

Don't have the balls to admit his true feelings. Just like all racist cowards.

[invictus]

91. +1

[invictus]

92. +1

[janx]

36. This sounds like psychological and international profiling.

As mixed as the world is, (an Asian from Holland, an Arab-American, etc.), not only would it be morally wrong to profile that way--it would be inefficient.

That's not what this video is portraying.

I'd also like to say that Israel is doing something that our TSA is not. It's thinking ahead. Our TSA merely reacts: Shoe bomber? SHOES! Underwear bomber? X-RAY! etc. I've always wondered why the TSA couldn't be a little more creative and less reactive.

[LeftishBrit]

38. Is it the 'profiling' that improves safety, or the general security-consciousness and alertness.

And just to note that whatever 'profiling' the Israelis do, they can do random checks on anyone.

I'm a very pale female, and I've been body-searched before travelling on El Al, in a random check.

In fact real security IMO implies being prepared to check *anyone*.

[TwixVoy]

39. All the scared white folks on this thread though

Want standard questions at the air port that include "Are you a christian?" and "are you white?".

Poor scared fools. The founders on this country would spit on them. Willing to surrender OTHER PEOPLES RIGHTS so they can feel safer in their small racist minds.

[Socal31]

51. Are they better or worse

than the people who keep using "white" as derogatory?

[TroglodyteScholar]

98. +1 n/t

[janx]

45. I agree with you though I haven't been through there. n/t

[howard112211]

46. The "one or two more questions" line is bullshit.

They harass the hell out of some people there.

[lukasahero]

47. Ethnic profiling? That's your answer?

Well, hey, I'm guessing it's not YOUR rights that would be violated so why not, huh?

[dixiegrrrrl]

50. IBTL...!!!!!!!

[varelse]

59. Yes, my first thought was to alert on this

then I decided to watch the video first and make up my mind.

[Bonobo]

76. America's "equality" is nothing more than ritual lip service.

We pretend to be "equal" but we are not.

We perform rituals so that we can tell ourselves that we are an egalitarian society, but we are not.

Subjecting an 80-year old lady AS WELL AS a 25 year old man from Yemen to a strip search in the name of equality -in order to 'prove' to yourself that you are color blind is nothing more than self-satisfying patting of your own back. It's stupid and it's bulllshit.

And you all know it.

[janx]

78. Agreed. n/t

[jillan]

80. I think I would rather be asked alot of questions than have to finance body scanners at all the

airports.

I can't believe I am saying this - but it sounds like a good system...and obviously works.

[Taitertots]

83. I guess the Israelis have figured out

Terrorists who would target Israeli airliners are most likely:
Muslims, young men, and from certain regions


Searching old ladies, children and the disabled is probably not the most effective ideas for stopping terrorism.

[nadinbrzezinski]

85. After 9.11 they offered help and advise

Our airports said, thanks but no thanks. It is costly... and personnel intensive.

OTOH places like oh Mexico City Airport gladly accepted the help.

Our airlines hate the fact that they have to pay higher airport usage fees.

There are other things we DO NOT do that other places do.

Also other places do not assume a break up of the Stupid, aka the failure of human systems. We do.

So to be honest, the two times I flew out of Ben Gurion Airport I felt safer, and every time I fly out of Mexico City I feel safer... and it has nothing to do with... shoes on x-ray machine. And I do not assume that them foreigners cannot do the job... nor do I assume that failures are impossible.

[Nye Bevan]

86. Smart system. Thanks for posting.

You get to keep your shoes on, and your belt; 95% of people are done after 3 questions, and they haven't had so much as a bombing *attempt*, ever. I wish our TSA could be this smart.

[invictus]

90. Nice propaganda there. Israel's racist system is inappropriate for a secular multi-ethnic nation.

[invictus]

94. Under Israel's racist system, Barack Hussein Obama would have been stripped searched every time ...

... he flew as a private citizen.

[StrawDog44]

100. Not Here

Would never happen here. ACLU would never allow it.

[devilgrrl]

102. "ACLU would never allow it."

[Bluebear]

104. I stand with the ACLU.

[sofa king]

101. It happens here, too.

Back when I had long hair in the '90s, I was "randomly selected" for special attention on virtually every flight I took, (and for that matter when I had to go to Capitol Hill I had someone shadowing me every step of the way there, too). They'd lose my bags every other flight, too, just like they "lost" Mo Atta's bag on the morning of September 11 (his baggage may have actually missed the connection, which I believe happens much more rarely than airlines simply tossing the baggage of scary-looking people into a storage room for a few days).

I flew to New Zealand for a many-day trip with nothing but a fishing vest and a carry on bag. The officials at Dulles were pissed, I think because they had to search me for ten minutes instead of simply "losing" my bag as they usually did. They lost my fellow traveller's bag instead. He's scary-looking, too.

Try it yourself. Try growing your hair out (if you're a guy), or dying it an unnatural color, like green, and then take a flight with checked baggage. But be sure to put everything valuable on your person, because that's all you're going to have left when you land.

Edit: I should add that it is only a matter of time before people fitting the "correct" profile are coerced into doing the bidding of that tiny segment of the population that actually wants to do harm and doesn't fit the profile. Some white male is going to bring down an airliner, and it will be the press that notices that his wife and kids aren't home and haven't been seen for weeks.