Toyota: yes, we have a problem, but we're selling you the car anyway, good luck

[DainBramaged]

Toyota’s “reputation for long-term quality is finished,” said Maryann Keller, senior adviser at Casesa Shapiro Group LLC in New York, a strategic adviser to the auto industry. “People aren’t going to buy Toyota's, period. It doesn’t matter which model. What’s happened is sufficient to keep people out of the stores,” she said in an interview yesterday.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=a1JINUGjNGNM


People here have slammed GM and Ford for the nine+ years I've been here, and a few times because of my defense of the Domestic auto industry and the UAW and my passion, I was almost tombstoned. No one believed me when Toyota mishandled the engine sludge problems from the last part of the 20th century into the current decade, and they poo pooed the frame rust issue on the trucks. Now they have a SERIOUS problem and today they admit they have been selling cars in the US with an engineering defect and did NOTHING to correct the problems in the Prius models sold before January 2010. Their concern isn't for You the customer, it's only for their profit margins.

Try and tell me the quality of my Chevy isn't as good as your Toyota.

[8 track mind]

1. I was wondering when you would show up ;)

I think this is just the tip of the iceberg with Toyota. There are probably more defects lurking in the background.

[vadawg]

2. i think we are going to find engineering defects across all the auto makers

i doubt that only toyota suffers from errors in their designs, will be interesting to see what shakes out of it, personally i will still buy toyotas as i have never had any problems with them.

[DainBramaged]

3. There will be massive fines placed by the US and there will be very embarrassing moments

during the Congressional hearings. The other shoe hasn't dropped yet.....

[madokie]

4. Or my Fords

I'll put them up against any of the foreign brands any day that aren't actually built by ford, mazda comes to mind.

[old mark]

5. VW has been doing business this way for years - riding on their old

reputation, selling unreliable cars, ignoring customers.


mark

[ingac70]

12. VW's biggest problem...

is there are hardly any mechanics that know what they are doing on their products.

[old mark]

43. We had a Passat that was in the shop for 3 months-Factory guys,

computer programs, etc - no one could get it running. we had it towed to another dealer, got $300 for it in trade- on a used Hyundai.

That was my 5th VW - never again.


mark

[bullwinkle428]

15. I've seriously considered buying one of their diesels for years, but

there are just WAY too many horror stories about how utterly incompetent the dealer network is, with no real effort on their part to make things better in any way.

[sendero]

130. A few years ago..

... we wanted to buy a used (1-3 years old) Jetta TDI diesel.

We noticed that every one that was for sale had already had 2-3 owners.

This made me curious so I started looking closer. Long story short, most late-model VWs are crap, in the shop for major repairs in their first year or two.

The diesels are even worse.

It's too bad, I've driven a Passat and a Jetta and I love the way they drive. But I don't have the time or money to deal with a car that needs frequent repairs.

[old mark]

137. I love the way they drive, too - I wish I had had more time driving it and

less time with it sitting dead in the street.
Repairs are frequent, breakdowns are unexpected and fixes very costly.

This was my 5th VW - never again.

mark

[8 track mind]

120. and the parts ane not cheap either. n/t

[Statistical]

6. For Chevy isn't as good as my Honda.

:hide:

[Vinca]

7. I've driven Toyotas for the last 25 years and I intend to keep buying them.

In all those years I've never had a problem with any of them. In fact, the current RAV is 8 years old and going strong. As Don Rumsfeld said about the looting after the invasion of Iraq, "Stuff happens."

[vadawg]

8. +1 yup they are machines, machines sometimes go wrong or have unforseen issues

ive never had a single complaint about any toyota ive had and ill be buying another one in the next month or so, at least thats what my wife has told me...

[Romulox]

55. If Tylenol had killed 20 people, there'd be a national hysteria.

But since a Toyota is a big sunk cost, the risk will have to be rationalized away.

"ill be buying another one in the next month or so"

You mean if the government allows them to be sold to you, right?

[DainBramaged]

9. And I've driven a Chevy since 1966 and proudly contributed to the DOMESTIC auto industry.

And I've never had a problem with any of them (except the race motor in the 1970 SS/EA Chevelle which lasted 8 seconds due to a rod that turned out bad and I still have the remains of one piston on a shelf above me) but that doesn't count........

[Vinca]

13. I tried to support the domestic auto industry, but it didn't work out.

My first car, a used Oldsmobile, stalled on a hill and rolled backward, barely missing a police cruiser. About 1975 or 76 I bought a new Pontiac. About a half mile from the dealership it stalled and I had to call a wrecker to haul it back to the garage. After several incidents like that, it was traded for a new Ford truck. It didn't run too badly, but the thing had an odd rattling sound. Turned out the guy who was supposed to tighten the bolts that held the bed on the truck must have been having a bad day. The Ford was traded for a Toyota and the problems have been: a flat tire after running over a sharp object and a dead battery after 100,000 miles.

[DainBramaged]

16. Oh well, life goes on without you............

You can tell me all you want about the horror stories of decades past, but to NOT give the Domestics a chance today is just ignorant.

[CanonRay]

17. I went to look at a Chevy model

The engine was made in China. The trans was made in Korea. The car was assembled in Canada. How the hell does this support the doemestic auto industry?

[TheCowsCameHome]

20. Is that true?

Wow, that's interesting. Not much "domestic" there.

[DainBramaged]

21. Could you tell us what you drive, or are you simply defending Toyota?

“It was an experiment to see if G.M. could use its facility in China to take costs out of a vehicle.”


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/business/worldbusiness/26chevy.html

[JoeyT]

126. Actually they do have parts from around the world.

I remember being pissed when I was working on my Lumina one day how many of the parts came from other countries.
The starter is what I was replacing. The starter that was Made in Mexico.

I wouldn't put my Chevy up against my Honda or Toyota. But that's only because I got lucky and got a CRV and RAV-4 that were from really good years. And Luminas are kind of crappy. (Especially the brakes.)

[DainBramaged]

132. You do realize how long ago they stopped making Luminas, don't you?

And you woudn't put your more than a decade old Chevy up against a modern Honda? Of course you wouldn't, that would be like comparing a Pinto to a Mercedes..........


:eyes:

[JoeyT]

134. Yep.

The Honda is only 6 years newer.

My Dodge truck is newer than the Honda. I wouldn't put the Dodge up against the Honda either.

[DainBramaged]

135. Then if you KNOW how old the car is and how dated the engineering is

why knock the brand?

[JoeyT]

138. Because it isn't as events happen in a vacuum.

Sooner or later every car company has a really crappy car.

Toyota's response is what makes it so bad.

[DainBramaged]

90. I see you didn't respond to my first question, let's try again

or where you simply trying to prove something to the invisible Toyota fan?

[Romulox]

54. "faith based purchasing decision". nt

[emilyg]

82. So will I.

[David Zephyr]

116. +1

.

[Kokonoe]

10. At least three of every 100 Lexus accelerated in 2007

During a little-noticed 2007 inquiry, investigators found that at least three of every 100 Lexus ES 350 owners in Ohio reported experiencing unintended acceleration
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35228196/ns/business-washington_post

[TheCowsCameHome]

11. Most manufacturers have had problems somewhere along the line.

Toyota today, someone else tomorrow.........

[vadawg]

18. yup it will be interesting to see what the anti toyota people say when its ford or checy on the line

next time, i dont think anyone can succesfully engineer out all faults and quirks in vehicles without at least a couple slipping through..

[blue_onyx]

32. Of course other companies will have problems

There is, however, a double standard given to the US auto companies. It's annoying that the Toyota loyalists spent much of last year trashing the US automakers. Now, their opinion has shifted to, "Oh, well all companies have problems." Why wasn't that same consideration given to the US automakers' past quality issues?

"it will be interesting to see what the anti toyota people say when its ford or checy on the line"

I don't know...maybe they'll avoid those threads, just like most anti-domestic people have avoided 99% of the recent Toyota posts.

[vadawg]

34. honestly i dont really care what other people drive, at work i drive fords and dodges

at home i have toyotas, at a purely vehicle level it makes no difference to me if there is no more saturns sold, or if GM becomes the biggest car company on the planet, for me its all about having the choice to spend my family's money on what my family wants and needs, and for you to have the same ability..

[divideandconquer]

Toyota make the USA weaker economically and thus hurts all Americans

[divideandconquer]

51. Toyota make the USA weaker economically and thus hurts all Americans

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[blue_onyx]

41. Just last week...

one of the people I remember from the GM/Chrysler bashing last year was still saying that Toyota makes the best vehicles one could buy (while still bashing the US automakers). I guess some people don't let facts get in the way of their opinion.

[DainBramaged]

91. Drat, I guess too many sensitive folks around here

they want to play but the kitchen is a wee bit too hot....

[TheCowsCameHome]

45. Has the GM dealership you work for ever sold or serviced a new or used Toyota?

Or any other non-domestic make or model vehicle?

[Romulox]

56. *Everybody* is killing two or three dozen people with sudden acceleration problems these days guys!

The human mind is a strange and bizarre thing, no?

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DainBramaged]

19. Hear hear

:fistbump:

[Brickbat]

22. I'm hoping people see Toyota's true colors.

I can't believe anyone would buy one of those ugly pieces of crap, even if they are made in factories powered by unicorn farts and staffed by workers who make cars out of the goodness of their hearts. :eyes:

[Jennicut]

23. I own a Honda CRV and am happy with it.

But honestly, the reliability of a car only matters for the current models, not just past reputation. Toyota messed up big time and people lost a lot of confidence in them. My husband and I own another Honda, a Civic. But he also drives a Ford Escape at work and loves that. We are open to American cars in the future.

[Kalyke]

67. You'll love your CRV until the air conditioning goes out to the tune of $3,000.

Or until the brakes fail or until the wheels fall off or until it catches on fire:

http://www.autoblog.com/2004/12/10/hondas-crv-problems-persist/

My sister-in-law just bought one of these because, unlike you, she won't even consider an American car despite what we told her my former CRV-owning co-workers said about them.

[Jennicut]

112. It was given to me for free. My Grandmother bought a new CRV and gave me her old one.

I was incredibly lucky but I was also able to give my sister in law my old car (a Civic) because the transmission went on her Kia. The brakes were replaced right before I was given it. It has 55,000 miles on it and it is a 2002 model. For free, I would take any car. My entire family is a bunch of Honda freaks so that influenced me but really, I am ready to try an American car after this one goes.

[JoeyT]

127. Mine is the same year as yours.

And has long since crossed the 300k mile mark. The only non-maintenance repair I've had to do was replacing the distributor cap/rotor.
Wish I could say that about my Chevy car. Or the Dodge truck I use for work.

[Jennicut]

131. I think my Grandmother barely used it, LOL.

[madrchsod]

24. front suspension parts and misaligned welds on left front suspension

there`s a point where a company becomes to big where they can not control quality and toyota reached that point several years ago.

it`s no big surprise that ford and gm is kicking toyota`s ass in quality and mpg. now it`s up to toyota to convince people they can produce a quality car for the masses.

[1gobluedem]

25. Here we go again

You can love your Toyota all you want but why can't you admit they're NOT PERFECT? There has been a massive media love affair with Toyota ever since they began price dumping cars in California in the 1980s to get a foothold here, never mind the losses they took. So YOU have never had a problem with Toyota and that makes everything that's coming to light irrelevant? They had to recall nearly four million vehicles. The NHTSA had to make them stop selling eight brands (yes, that's right, that was not 'voluntary' on Toyota's part). They KNEW there were brake problems with the Prius and shipped them out anyway.

If this were domestic automaker people would be out for blood and it's unlikely the company would survive the PR hit. But Toyota apologists -- many of whom would be smirking and saying "I told you so" were this a domestic company -- just shrug it off. "But I love my Toyota!" Is it because they can't blame the unions for this?

I have had two Ford Escorts, two Ford Tempos, a Ford Contour, a Chevy Malibu, and currently drive a Dodge Caliber. Other than routine wear and tear I've had little to no trouble with any of them. I, too, am sick of the slams the US industry has to endure while Toyota has a had a free pass. I'm glad to see the love affair is waning.

[vadawg]

27. lol dude you do realise that you feel the same way about fords as i do about toyota

its called brand loyalty you have never had a problem with ford so you will keep buying them, im the same with toyota, if ford have an issue tomorrow would that mean you would never buy another ford, i feel the same about toyotas, the thing i do appreciate and understand is that not every design fault or defective part gets caught before a number of vehiccles hit the roads and all conditions. So ill say it again i love my toyota and will probuably be buying another one in the next month or so..

[divideandconquer]

28. Toyota is anti-union and therefore hurts middle class Americans

Toyoya has long been one of the most evil corporations out there. from mob ties, to price fixing, to slave labor, to fixing california cars check engine lights to not work, to million of cars with sludge problems they first blamed customers for and then had to be dragged kicking and screaming to fix, on and on

[LanternWaste]

42. A multinational corporation is a multinational corporation

A multinational corporation is a multinational corporation. It would be the height of absurdity to tell myself that Company A is more righteous in in stewardship of the planet and its commitment to a sound product beyond a certain cost/benefit ration.

Each of your aforementioned examples can more than easily be applied to any number of multi-national companies masquerading behind an American flag. They are obligated to serve the board and the shareholders, nothing more. Everything else (even our beloved borders, apple pie and parades down Main St.) is secondary regardless of company location, nationality of employees or consumer brand-love.

[NNN0LHI]

48. Are you suggesting that my local Ace Hardware store is the same as Walmart?

That is ridiculous. Ace Hardware could have adopted the Walmart business model of slash and burn but they didn't. Toyota did. Thats why we have 10% unemployment and all the "good" jobs for our next generation are guarding pipelines in Iraq.

Don

[LanternWaste]

61. Post hoc ergo prompter hoc...

"Thats why we have 10% unemployment..." Post hoc ergo prompter hoc.
10%+ unemployment is the result of numerous policies, both corporate and governmental. To lay the blame for that at the feet of one and only one business model is I think, rather short-sighted. Validating for one's own argument maybe, but still shortsighted.


Again, I can find examples of "bad corporate conduct" on either side of the ocean. If I were to suggest that that AT&T were a paragon of virtue as compared to Telemex, I would be climbing the heights of absurdity.

[jmowreader]

85. Ace is a bad example for this as is True Value

Ace and True Value are buying associations--iow franchises.

[divideandconquer]

49. Are you anti-union?

[LanternWaste]

60. One has little to do with the other...

One has little to do with the other...

[divideandconquer]

70. And how is that? The big 3 are mostly union cars, Japanese mostly not

[divideandconquer]

71. And how is that? The big 3 are mostly union cars, Japanese mostly not

[divideandconquer]

72. And how is that? The big 3 are mostly union cars, Japanese mostly not

[bird2]

30. 1gobluedem is right

1gobluedem likely doesn't buy a car only based solely on quality, but how the manufacturer treats its workers and follows the rules of fair play in industry. U.S.-based auto manufacturers treat their workers fairly and play by the rules when compared to Toyota, Honda, Kia, Hyundai, etc.

It all comes down to how much you're willing to see other people and your own country suffer simply so you can get what you want.

1gobluedem is loyal to Ford not just because of quality, but because it's a much better corporate citizen in the U.S. than Toyota, etc. are. Toyota owners apparently don't place as much value on those things, and that's selfish (and unpatriotic, I might add. Hope you're not a flag-waver, too, because if you are you're a hypocrite.)

[vadawg]

31. so your willing to pay a lot of money for something that dosent fit your needs just because its

union made, im sorry but where i spend my dollars goes to where i get what my family needs not what makes me think im saluting the flag so to speak.. i guess next time i take my toyota into the dealership i need to check to make sure that the mechanic and receptionist etc are all americans as well...

[bird2]

33. why does your family "need" a Toyota more than a U.S.-based company car?

[vadawg]

37. tell me why should i need to buy a vehicle built in mexico or parts from china more than a car built

in japan or germany, the simple reality is that i set what i need a vehicle to do, then you look at the vehicles on the market and then using your experience and what you like and your budget you go out and buy. Simply put i like toyota trucks and have never had an issue with them so ill continue to buy them, same as if i want a car i like BMWs..

[Kalyke]

69. Ford manufacturers several cars right here in the good ole USA.

Wayne Assembly Plant: Ford Focus

Michigan Truck Plant: Ford F-100, Ford Expedition, Lincoln Navigator, hopefully Ford Ranger, hopefully Mazda Truck

Dearborn, MI Truck Plant: Ford F-150

Avon Lake (OH) Assembly: Ford E-Series, Ford Transit, hopefully Ford Transit Connect

Louisville (KY) Truck Assembly: Ford Super Duty, hopefully Ford F-650 and F-750, hopefully Ford LCF

Louisville Assembly Plant: More Ford Focus, Ford C-Max, hopefully Volvo C70, hopefully Volvo C30, hopefully V30

Chicago Assembly Plant: Ford Taurus, Ford Explorer, Lincoln MkS, hopefully Mercury Sable, hopefully Mercury Mountaineer, hopefully Ford Explorer Sport
Trac

Oakville (WA) Assembly Plant: Ford Edge, Ford Flex, Lincoln MkX, Lincoln MkT

Kansas City Assembly Plant: Ford F-150, Ford Escape, Mazda Tribute(CX-5), hopefully Mercury Mariner

Flatrock (MI) AutoAlliance Plant: Ford Mustang, Mazda 6, Lincoln MkR, hopefully Mercury Cougar

[vadawg]

93. yup but none of them fit my needs....

[1gobluedem]

35. There are NO domestic autos, that fit your needs? I don't buy that

To answer your question, though, YES I willing to pay more at a lot of places. I'm willing to pay more for something WalMart sells for less because I don't approve of WalMart's personnel policies. I'm willing to pay more for organic vegetables at the Farmers' Market, instead of buying them from Kroger, because I want to support local farmers. I'm willing to pay more for a car built by a union worker because I want someone who is supporting a family and cares about his job assembling something I use every day instead of some minimum-wage earner who doesn't care if I live or die in something he built. I'm willing to pay more in taxes to have my trash and recycling picked up by someone who makes a decent living because they won't carelessly scatter trash along the street. I am willing to pay more to invest in MY community, not outsource my money to another country because MY community and MY country happen to need it.

Damn right, I'm willing to pay more.

[DainBramaged]

38. Domestic cars DO NOT cost more than ANY japanese car

Why is it with all of their supposed technological prowess, Toyota can't make AL of their gas guzzling models more efficient? Why is the Land Cruiser no better than the Tahoe or Suburban? Why isn't the Rav4 better than the Equinox or comparable Ford? Throughout their entire lineup model for model against GM and Ford?


'It's because just enough is good enough for them and the stupid American public buys it hook line and sinker.

[vadawg]

40. never said they cost more, just that why spend $40,000 on something that dosent fit your needs

or $30,000 or $20,000. no idea why you read it that way..

[vadawg]

39. whether you buy it or not, there was simply no domestic vehicle that suited our needs

and as we are loyal toyota owners we gave them the first option for what we wanted and the FJ fitted into what we were looking for and after two years it has more than performed what we have asked of it, so much so that my wife wants one for a run around and school runs...

[1gobluedem]

44. Tell me what your needs were

And let's see.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[vadawg]

53. if im on your ignore that must mean i owned you at one time in a discussion

as that seems to be the posters technique, if he cant win he ignores. kinda sad

[vadawg]

50. 4 wheel drive, hoseable interior, 5 seats, good ground clearence,

locking diffs, good offroad capabilities, not a jeep, and something that was fun to drive. there are some basics

[ieoeja]

99. In other words, an SUV.

And for an SUV you turn to ... Japan?!?

[vadawg]

100. no an suv with locking diffs, good offroad capabilities, and hoseable clean on the interior

so for that suv i turned to japan, for the suv that met what i wanted i turned to japan and ill turn to japan again shortly for another one..

[bird2]

46. vadawg: a question

"...as we are loyal toyota owners we gave them the first option for what we wanted and the FJ fitted into what we were looking for..." I read this to mean the Toyota dealership was your first and ONLY consideration because you say you went there first and found what you wanted. So if your shopping stopped there, how did you know there was no U.S.-based company car that fit your needs?

[vadawg]

52. no its the way it was worded my wife is an internet bunny, she researches like hell

but i wanted to go towards a toyota from the start as ive had nothing but positive results from them, and it just so happened that both of us like the FJ a lot.

[Romulox]

59. You might ask her to Google "sudden acceleration", since she seems to have missed it in her research

:hi:

[vadawg]

64. seeing as it was two years ago and dosent effect the FJ then there is no need to worry about it

but thanks for the heads up... ill tell her to check on it before she buys another one in the next month or so...

[Romulox]

66. Um, the subject is your family's ongoing safety, that's an ongoing concern even AFTER your purchase.

It's silly to pat one's self on the back about being an informed consumer when you've picked a defective product, in any event. It's difficult to understand how you don't see this. :shrug:

[vadawg]

83. lol so even though there have been no issues with the FJ i should be scared

wouldnt that apply to me having a ford exploder as well or a chevy malibu or any other car that isnt having issues.

[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Romulox]

78. He's only getting away with bragging on his FJ because DUers don't know what it is...

Japanese version of the Hummer, bought for similar purposes.

I wonder if his has the snorkel accessory? You know, for those cross country trips to Stuckey's. :silly:

[1gobluedem]

79. No, no it can't be. Toyota ONLY makes fuel efficient small cars

That US based companies were too stupid to manufacture.

:sarcasm:

[DainBramaged]

80. A real economical driver hey........

:patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot: :patriot:


If he wants to see what a real truck is like, he should have bought a Domestic, but these folks like to pretend they're the king of the countryside while they sit in traffic......

[NNN0LHI]

81. I once mentioned I drive an Explorer which is based on the Ford Ranger and I was damn near skinned

This good old boy brags about his behemoth based on an M-1 Abrams tank platform and everyone is thrilled and high fiving him because its a Toyota.

Strange world we live in.

Don

[vadawg]

84. yup ive got the snorkel simply due to living 4 miles of the paved roads

and the dust from the dirt roads gets into your rngine real easy unless you move the intake, also got heavier tires due to the stock tires being punctured, oh and i carry two spares due to punctures. jackass you seem to project that everyone lives in the suburbs and has no use for off road capabilities... i think once you get out of the cities and into the mountains all you see in every yard is a 4x4...

[Romulox]

86. LOLOL. Now I *KNOW* this is a put on. (Hint: real life is a not a PS3 game). nt

[vadawg]

87. obviosley you dont live in a very rural area, but a lot of the appalachia has dirt roads you know

so having the ability to cross creeks and keep dust down is a good thing...

[Romulox]

94. Dude. Living 4 miles from a paved road is not the same thing as running Paris to Dakar.

I'm sure you cross a LOT of unforded creeks in that thing. :silly:

[vadawg]

98. some when they flood and wash out the dirt roads but as you seemed to miss the main reason

its to help keep dirt outta the engine, you know by moving the air intake up and out of the dust...

[Romulox]

101. Thats ridiculous. It's a "Look at me! I race RALLEEEE!" accessory. You have a Hummer-san. nt

[vadawg]

103. lol yeah okay obviously you have no idea what you are talking about

or about the road conditions in the mountains of VA and WVA.... its obviously just a hate toyota screed, im sure that my FJ and extollation of its virtues will better drive its sales than your anti toyota crap....

[Romulox]

102. I don't believe a word of what you post, btw. I'm now POSITIVE this is a put on. nt

[vadawg]

104. tell you what why not ask around about what its like to live in a mountainous area

that has primarily dirt non county or state maintained roads and ask people who live on them what they drive and you will see its all 4x4,s some may have a cheap runaround for when the roads are not bad but no one is without 4x4 for when you need it... not sure what part you think is a put on, i think its well known on DU that im a cop in VA and that i live out in the mountains, a quick search of my posts in the past will show this as will my love of my toyota FJ...

[Romulox]

105. So post a pic of the FJ with the snorkel, cause I think it's a parody that you're mounting.

:hi:

[vadawg]

106. lol well as im in the county jail at the minute its going to be hard

but i can tell you that i bought the snorkel from a place in winchester VA same as my roof rack, my FJ came from darcars in Silver spring MD, i upgraded my tires to nitto terra grapplers, i also got myself a hilift jack ( a neccesity when you go offroad) which i do a lot of in my job....

[Romulox]

107. So post it in the next 24, with a sheet of handwritten paper that says "Hi Romulox!"

And I really hope you aren't posting all day on the taxpayer's dime! :hi:

[vadawg]

108. lol yeah im on a county computer sitting watching about 60 drunk and crazy guys

its either post online or have to talk to the crazy guys. couple of issues with the pic thing, i dont have internet at home (they wont come out to me) im off until monday morning and trust me i will be working the roads after all the snow we are getting, probuably driving my FJ you hate to pick up essential personnel for the local hospitals. But my FJ looks a lot like the one in the pic, its yellow but a hell of a lot dirtier.... and with a lot more dents...

[Romulox]

133. What a surprise that the guy with the big talk is full of excuses! Faker. nt

[TheCowsCameHome]

109. In jail? It wasn't quite quick enough to outrun the revenuers, eh?

Sorry, I couldn't help it.

[vadawg]

111. rofl, funnily enough i just made some nice ginger ahem wine, got a real kick to it as well

but no today im working in the jail for my sins...

[TheCowsCameHome]

113. It'll be there waitin' when you get out.....

[vadawg]

114. dude i get to go home in about 40 mins then im off for three days

had enough of the snow already and probuably i am going to be digging snow all weekend again....

[Obamanaut]

115. Dude! At work in the jail and playing on the computer? Who is

monitoring the inmates for pohibited acts?

[vadawg]

119. my rookie is getting blood shot eyes hes watching them so closely

plus we have cameras on the blocks and mics but its still impossible to notice everything..... but criminals are snitches like you wouldnt believe if it gets them an extra cookie or they dont like the guy...

[Obamanaut]

121. "...still impossible to notice everything..." And even harder if the

attention is focused on an internet forum.

[vadawg]

122. nah not really, as all im here to do is fix shit if he fucks up, its his post

im just sitting with him in case...

[JVS]

96. That thing is hideous.

[vadawg]

97. but it works and thats what matters, this truck has had no problems getting me home whatever

if i was buying for looks id get a BMW or Mercedes, but for practicality this thing rocks, its not brilliant on the pavement but on mountain roads its a fucking joy to drive and effing fun...

[DainBramaged]

89. I See some people who like to claim the high ground aren't happy with some of our posts

poor baby.......maybe they should stay out and argue where they have a little bit more knowledge....

[FarCenter]

88. Doesn't seem wise to buy a car from a union factory, where managers and workers are adversaries

It might have worked when cars were simpler products.

But it seems like a chancy proposition for a very expensive, high technology purchase.

[1gobluedem]

92. Oh come ON

Give me one example where union workers decided to compromise the product they were building because of an adversarial relationship with management. That's what strikes are for.

[FarCenter]

95. You have a point -- a lot of the vandalism occurs before, during and just after strikes

[quiller4]

62. My spouse worked for years at a dealership that sold Ford & Toyota

He worked the Toyota counter. Before he worked at the dealership we had 3 Toyotas. Now we drive Fords. Need I say more?

[vadawg]

65. i see your anecdote and raise you one golden sasquatch

mine is i drive and i mean hammer the shit out of fords and dodges at work and i still prefer to drive a toyota when it comes to driving my family around... anecdotes mean nothing, everyone has their own preference when it comes to vehicles and washing up liquid..

[1gobluedem]

29. I don't like union busters that close their markets to imports

If there was a trade balance I'd feel very differently. But there isn't. And I don't like how Toyota is trying to push this off on American manufacturing when their engineers designed the faulty parts.

And, for the record, I am not a 'dude.'

[tavalon]

26. I just used Consumer Reports to decide which used car I would look for

I got a Hyundai. I can't give any information on how it might pan out in the long run since we just got it last week.

[Romulox]

57. Did Consumer Reports actually test that vehicle before recommending it? They didn't used to...

at least for Toyotas.

Did you miss the big scandal? :shrug:

[Romulox]

58. How many of these recalled Toyota models were recommended by Consumer Reports without any testing?

:shrug:

[DainBramaged]

75. A lot of folks here refuse to believe CR gave Toyota a pass for YEARS

[DevonRex]

63. The last foreign car we bought was in 1983. And we'll never buy foreign again.

There's a principle involved here. Americans need jobs, the unions must be supported AND all our American-made cars have gotten over 200,000 miles before we had to trade them in. That 1983 Honda? Pfft. Less than 130,000 when the engine blew.

[tblue37]

68. What engine sludge problems? I have a 1995 Camry. Should I be concerned? nt

[divideandconquer]

73. 97 is when it started

<http://www.yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html>

[divideandconquer]

74. 97 is when it started

<http://www.yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html>

[DainBramaged]

76. look it up......

http://www.yotarepair.com/Sludge_Zone.html


Camry 4 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 7/01

Camry 6 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 8/02

Solara 4 cyl. Produced 6/98 - 5/01

Solara 6 cyl. Produced 6/98 - 8/02

Sienna 6 cyl. Produced 7/97 - 6/02

Avalon 6 cyl. Produced 7/96 - 6/02

Celica 4 cyl. Produced 8/96 - 4/99

Highlander 6 cyl. Produced 11/00 - 8/02

[Neecy]

110. Still driving my 1987 Volvo

I've considered trading it in but it's the car that won't die. Engine, transmission are still strong. Body is great with very little rust. Everything works. Not a ton of pickup but it's a great snow car.

If a US automaker could make a car that would last this long I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

[farmout rightarm]

117. God, I miss my old Edsel.

Actually, I don't...

[Obamanaut]

123. In 1959 I double dated to my senior prom in a 1958 Edsel. It was

a very nice ride, belonged to my friend's dad, who let us have it for the evening.

[Missy Vixen]

118. When we're finally in the market for a car, we're buying a Ford

The quality of Ford's offerings right now (and the easier price tag,) convinced us. We were also favorably impressed when we drove a Focus for two weeks last year while my car was getting fixed.

One thing's for sure -- those who don't mind a little engineering defect are going to be able to get a new Toyota at a significantly reduced price...

[Gregorian]

124. Look what I just found.

[DainBramaged]

129. BIG GRIN

:fistbump:

[Mixopterus]

125. Shit

I was going to get a Corolla too.

Now I don't know what to do.

[DainBramaged]

128. Be patient.......

lots of choices out there, Chevy comes out with the Cruze this year, 40+ MPG highway from a GAS engine.........

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

136. That's not why you were almost tombstoned.

People here have slammed GM and Ford for the nine+ years I've been here, and a few times because of my defense of the Domestic auto industry and the UAW and my passion, I was almost tombstoned.

Uh, there's a difference between passion and... whatever it is that you're doing.