Save the "..eating healthy is too expensive" bullshit....

[tyne]

along with the "...focus on jobs instead of obesity".

Bananas can be found for 37 cents a pound. That's less than a buck fifty a bunch. You can buy a big bag of apples for less than 4 dollars. Large bags of frozen berries....cheap.
HUGE bags of fresh/frozen veggies are there for you if you plop down $5(most of the time less).


Frozen chicken breasts and and other lean meats are easy to find at less than $2/pound.

"Michelle should focus on jobs instead of this obesity crap". Bullshit. This is a perfect platform with perfect timing. We can chew gum and walk at the same time. A healthy sustainable economy (jobs) goes hand in hand with a healthy populace.

[Zoeisright]

1. That's true if

the store in your neighborhood carries those items. Lots of stores in poor areas don't carry them.

And lean meats require preparation. Do you realize that severe depression, which I think afflicts many of the very poor, is more disabling than end-stage heart disease? It takes a lot of effort to get to a store that has these items, then get into the kitchen to prepare them.

Just because you can do it doesn't mean everybody can.

[tyne]

14. Well...

I live in tropical Idaho...so maybe that's why bananas are really cheap here *satire*. My mid-size grocers sell bananas for 37 cents a pound. I might have to drive 3 miles (Costco) for an even better price.

Lean meats require preparation? What does that mean? Fatty meats don't require preparation? Does that mean that you have to cook a chicken breast but a fatty hamburger...not so much?
Also, they are finding that what we are (or aren't) eating is one of the leading factors of depression.

And if I can do it....most people can.

[freeplessinseattle]

70. not quite the point

a lot of poor people don't even have a car so rely on neighborhood markets, which are often marked up phenomenally (there have been studies done supporting this mark-up), especially for perishable items.

Then they have to often walk home from the bus with a heavy load, so which is lighter, a bag of apples or of mac n cheese?

(and if it matters this post is from a person religious to the point of distraction about my about my own weight since I was a teen-but admittedly counting calories has always come easier to me than counting pennies)

[bettyellen]

80. most poor people have cars and Costo memeberships on what planet?

[K8-EEE]

326. I know right?? Plus there are corporate food dives

advertising crap as "healthy" and maybe you grow up in a family that doesn't have knowledge/interest in healthy eating and you might be inspired by the First Lady to take an interest in it.

[Donnachaidh]

124. Costco memberships in my area are $50 a year, and most poor people cannot afford THAT

That fifty bucks is usually used to put shoes on their kids feet or coats on their backs. Memberships in food clubs are a LUXURY that poor people cannot afford.

That being said, many of my neighbors used the free 3 month memberships at Christmas to BJ's wholesale in order to stock up. But even then the warehouse prices are not always the best.

One of the real reasons why this country has so much of a problem dealing with the problems of others is because people make broadbrushed judgments based on their -limited- experience. Just because you can do something in your neck of the woods does NOT mean it applies everywhere else. Not by a long shot.

[closeupready]

337. Can they give up one of their kids for adoption?

:sarcasm:

[superduperfarleft]

340. LOL.

How did I miss this before, that's spot on. :rofl:

[closeupready]

354. You know - bootstraps, stiff upper lip, and all that.

;)

[superduperfarleft]

131. Costco? Seriously?

You are the walking definition of a limousine liberal.

[nadinbrzezinski]

169. You are middle class and cannot see what

is not in front of your nose...

Look I am working class, and unlike you, even though I live near a middle class well stocked grocery store, and have a COSCO membership, I get it. The working poor do not have a car, or for that matter access to a well stocked grocery store.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

342. +1000

[Political Heretic]

348. It's amazing. isn't? The cluelessness of over-privilege.

[WinkyDink]

189. You really have no clue how much farther hamburger goes than a chicken breast?

[Hannah Bell]

211. bananas = mostly carbs. apples = mostly carbs. those "huge bags" of frozen vegetables for < $5

= 2.2#, < 8 1/2 cup servings, i.e. < 2 meals for a family of four.

for starch, potatoes, noodles or dried legumes are cheaper.


It's possible to eat healthy on a budget, but bananas, apples & frozen vegetables aren't exactly it.

btw, have you checked out where cheap frozen vegetables are being sourced from lately?

yes, china.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

341. Go to an inner city grocery store some time then lets talk.

[KittyWampus]

21. Michelle Obama's program focusing on obesity includes that PRIMARILY.

And this addition of adding "depression" shows just how far some DU'ers will go to find fault.

[laughingliberal]

29. Thank you for that. As a sufferer for life, I know there are times when making a sandwich or pouring

a bowl of cereal has been almost more than I could manage. Sure we'll see the amazing compassion of DU come out on this post, though.

[amandabeech]

246. No kidding.

I'm the one who says that Michelle and her husband should focus on jobs first.

I then said that Michelle could do a lot more good by sticking to the gardening meme and expanding it to community gardens.

A few years back, the NYT food person (I forget her name) tried to come up with healthy meals for a month worth of food stamps for a family living in the South Bronx. It was impossible, and I don't think that things have changed that much.

[peace13]

48. I would imagine that part of the program will be getting the kids involved in food prep and clean .

This would be a big help to a parent with debilitating depression. My SIL did not have depression but she had 6 kids in nine years. This woman bought Campbell's chicken noodle soup by the case. I often thought if she could throw a turkey in the oven once a month they could have plenty of protein and bones for soup. She could have put apples in the cellar and potatoes by the bushel there. Nope, potato chips, chicken noodle soup. It was so sad. If the kids would have been encouraged to help, who knows what would have happened?

[msanthrope]

137. 6 kids in 9 years? She didn't have time to make homemade soup---

Funny, though, how your post doesn't mention the father of the children, and his failure to nourish his children properly...

[peace13]

161. Fundy family, southern Ohio.

Daddy's job was to whoop the children and send them running to mommy's skirt. He was an ass who quit his job whenever he got too uncomfortable. My SIL's job was to listen to him as head of house and birth the babies that god sent her way. Both of these parents were responsible for these children but the men of that god don't have to cook. Women's work you know.

[brooklynite]

73. Stores (in poor areas or not) sell the food their customers want...

The key is that un- and under-educated customers don't know anything about nutrition, and their only exposure to food choices is what they see on TV. Hence the need for an education program to help people make informed choices.

As for the "requires preparation" argument: I can put together a meal of meat, two vegetable and starch, all from fresh (or unprocessed ingredients) in 20 minutes. All you need to do is learn a little about food types, herbs and cooking times.

[Cal Carpenter]

128. No, stores sell what will make a profit

unless it's a co-op that's the whole point of a company in this capitalist economy - to make a profit.

If stores were selling what people wanted, why is advertising one of the largest industries in this country?

Why are there no grocery stores in so many poor, urban areas? Not because poor, urban people don't need/want a variety of food, but because there's not enough profit to be made.

It makes me sick to see so many supposedly left-leaning people blame the victims on this topic. Have you every been to an emergency food pantry distribution? Have you seen the looks on people's faces on the rare occasion that their bag of food is filled with fresh produce? Most people don't want to live on overpriced crackers and cheese from a can or half-rotten bananas (which is what you find in inner-city 'convenience stores'). I don't know of anyone who wants to raise a kid on that kind of food.

The paternalistic 'oh they need to be educated on good food choices' is a load of shit for people who have no choices.

[CTyankee]

138. Everybody in this country could use some nutrition literacy!

Nutrition is everybody's business. However, medical care until very recently never included it. the medical community scoffed at the idea that food could contain anti-oxidants to prevent cancer.

At the very least, schools could teach the basic food groups and nutrition needs to the kids. the parents could be offered some information also. I'm middle class and there was a LOT that I didn't know when my kids were little. I routinely gave them apple juice instead of water, for instance. They ate only white bread for a long time. And I overcooked vegetables instead of learning to steam or stir fry. Nobody starts out knowing everything.

Having greengrocers come into inner city neighborhoods would probably take some subsidy from the government but it could provide jobs for inner city residents as well as provide good food. It can be done.

[goclark]

140. Excellent!

[Cal Carpenter]

201. There's no question that nutrition education is far outweighed by

advertising for crappy food, and that better public education on nutrition would be helpful. But that's not what my post was about or what i was replying to.

As far as subsidizing greengrocers in the inner city or other areas now called 'food deserts' (catch-phrase du jour) - there are plenty of nonprofits working on mobile food pantries, community gardens, and other ways of getting good food to people who need it most. However it's pretty sad and pathetic that those organizations have to beg for grants from companies like ConAgra (who are one of the major reasons why our food system is so warped) to get the funding to do it. That is NOT a solution, it is a short-term fix (not to disrespect people doing such work, don't get me wrong) that does not and cannot address the roots of the problem.

[amandabeech]

248. No time for nutrition with NCLB.

It's not on the test.

[bread_and_roses]

186. Thank you!

The arrogance and elitism on display in some of these posts is mind-boggling. Thank the goddess there are many pointing that out.

[Donnachaidh]

193. that's MYTHOLOGY, pure and simple

Stores have been switching over to pre-packaged and processed CRAP for years. Produce aisles have shrunk while frozen food aisles have gone from 80 per cent frozen veggies to pre-packaged CRAP. And BOOZE.

Canned food aisles are switching as well, from simply canned veggies to pre-packaged crap that has little or no REAL nutritional value. And it's all for THEIR bottom line -- PROFIT. They don't give a rat's ass about what their customers WANT or NEED. Their attitude is *tough shit* when asked to make their stores healthier.

[On the Road]

247. If the Produce Sections They Do Have

were hopping, I would blame the stores.

But as it is, produce section tend to be empty and filled with vegetables that have been sitting around because no one is buying them. No wonder they're shrinking.

Half of my average grocery purchase is produce, but there's often nobody else there. It's just not important to a very large of the country.

[gmoney]

99. And there's a time and nuisance factor

I know this is just an excuse, but people talk about how it just takes 5 minutes to cook this or that. More accurately, it takes time to go shopping and get the stuff, takes time to prep the ingredients for cooking, the actual cooking, then the clean up. Even Rachel Ray needs a half hour to prepare and cook anything, and she doesn't have to clean up, or figure out how to make the recipe when she finds out she doesn't have milk or some other key ingredient.

Plus, you need a kitchen with a fridge and a stove and cookware and utensils and such. Or at least a hotplate and a can opener.

So, if you don't have all that stuff, or you don't feel you have time, fast food will win out. If you have a buck to spend on food, you can get half a pack of tortillas, or you can get a piping hot burrito with meat, cheese, sauce, etc that requires no prep, and the only clean up is throwing away the wrapper. Or yes, for your buck you could maybe buy a couple bananas at a convenience store, but it's not as substantial.

Again, I'm not excusing the fast food lifestyle, but it's understandable. Especially if you're only cooking for yourself.

The attitude that "why don't these people just buy groceries and cook healthy meals?" is a little like "why don't these people just find jobs?"

It's not always that simple.

[we can do it]

171. If You Bought the Ingredients You Could Make Quite a Few Burritos Cheaper

unless of course, you don't realize that you are going to eat more than the one meal this week. The convenience factor is just another brainwashing people have fallen for. Here's what you can get at Aldi's 1-2 lbs tortillas around $1, refried beans- 3 cans $2, salsa $1, cheese $2.75 lb, carrots, 69 cents/pound, several meats/chicken under $2 lb, bananas 49 cent/pound, peanut butter $1.49. 6 bagels $1.50, canned veg 2/$1.......sorry -its just another excuse

[Donnachaidh]

195. not everyone in America likes or wants burritos

:shrug:

[we can do it]

234. so make something else, its not rocket science

yeh good amurkins luv potato chips and hot dogs, which evidently cook themselves or magically appear where you are, with no time involved in getting them. did you even notice the other things in my list just as examples?

[Donnachaidh]

254. most if not all of your list is not what everyone likes

but you go ahead and get huffy, and automatically accuse others of wanting chips and hot dogs, just because of a difference of opinion. So mature. :eyes:

[Name removed]

270. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[we can do it]

272. AGAIN, It Was Not An a List of Everything Available at a Store TRY Reading

[Scout]

274. i thought you didn't fucking care? :rofl: n/t

[we can do it]

276. I Don't

[dustbunnie]

279. Not everyone in America likes or wants fatty liver disease.

:shrug:

Telling people how to avoid some of these awful and debilitating diseases might help some, and may at least educate younger people who aren't getting the info at home. Why is that so terrible?

[we can do it]

300. Because They Just Don't Want To Hear It

[Maru Kitteh]

216. Oh FFS. How many working single moms have the lesiure time to open a burrito factory

in their kitchen just to please the awesomely superior keyboard warriors of DU?

[we can do it]

232. OH puleeze- I make myself a couple in about 2 minutes in microwave

FFS yourself- does single mom have a transporter to transport her and kids to shitty fastfood joint? and how long does it take to stand in line at the shithole? i work and feed myself, on a daily basis- its much fsater to pikup stuff for a few days than to go out for every meal, unless you have a time machine and star trek transporter...any more STUPID excuses? get off your high horse.

[Scout]

236. hahahahahaha "get off your high horse" hahahahahahah n/t

[Whisp]

307. o FFS is right. why do some of you insist on eating crap and feeding it to your kids.

I worked a long stressful day and had to come home to make a decent meal for my kid. It didn't take all that much effort, why do some of you make it sound like it does. a fast stir fry with brown rice (rice I made on the weekend in bulk to have during the week fast), soup! real homemade with leftoever thrown in from the fridge,... nothing fancy but no fuckin stupid big macs or burritos except as a special treat once in a while.

and ys I was dog tired and the dishes sat around fro a while sometime, big deal.

and no god damn soda pop. water was all i served with some juice as a treat here and there. yeh, call me a mean mom and my child is still suffering from it.

fuck! the stupid is thick in this thread and i'm sure to be called a limousine liberal for this whacky post.

[Maru Kitteh]

328. If the shoe fits.....

You had weekends off. How nice for you.

[Whisp]

332. how do you know how much time I had off from what? n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

347. Well, unlike you I based my post on what you wrote about yourself.

You on the other hand engaged in personal attack and started screeching at me asking me why I "insist on eating crap and feeding it to your kids." - a statement you had fuckall basis for.

The funniest part?

I was responding to some other poster who seemed to think that everyone in the world has the facilities, time and means to set up a burrito factory in their kitchen and advocating said factory as a healthy ideal - and then you spit at the world how proud you are of yourself because you didn't feed your kids "no fuckin stupid big macs or burritos except as a special treat once in a while."

[Whisp]

349. just pisses me off that people are whining that Michelle is talking about food

which apprently she has no right to even tho obesity and poor eating habits are a national problem, - and her wagging her fingers in everybodies face to shamr them.

what gigantic morons would piss and moan about this.

[Maru Kitteh]

350. I am VERY happy about what the first lady is doing. We need to have this conversation.

We need to figure it out because our food is killing us, and disproportionately, it's killing our poor.

I just get mad when people assume that people who live in the rest of the country have lives like they do.

Millions of people don't have a car.
A shocking number of people live without things like electricity and working appliances.
Many do not have a way to get bulk purchases home or anyplace safe to store them.
Many rural folks and many inner city folks find themselves in the same boat - the only store they can get to doesn't sell much food at all, and ALL of it is grossly overpriced.
Working moms, most of whom live in poverty (the REAL kind), often have to commute umpteen hours a week and work 2 and 3 jobs with very bad hours. Some people here want to give them a lecture about not spending enough time over the stove doing food prep on top of the crushing burdens they already bear.

Somebody here suggested that everybody could just shop at Costco.


My ire was directed at the OP that says that the poor have no excuse for not having fresh produce and abundant healthy food at hand. That's an elitist attitude born in oblivion.

Crushing poverty is real in America, and it has consequences.

I think you and I are probably on the same side. I'd like to think so.

Peace.

[Name removed]

259. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[CTyankee]

135. Getting greengrocers in poor neighborhoods is one of Michelle's goals.

Making sure they take food stamps is important. Adequate public transportation to and from supermarkets is important. Nutrition literacy is important. Here in New Haven we have a nice Shaw's supermarket in the inner city. It has a beautiful produce section and lots of fish and chicken. It also hires local residents to work there. It was important that our city talked Shaw's into coming in that neighborhood.

[dysfunctional press]

257. when i lived in chicago i bought my produce at the store in the crappy neighborhood.

it wasn't as pretty as the fruit and vegetables at the chain store- but it was just as nutritious and a whole lot cheaper.

there are LARGE produce stores in LOTS of the poor neighborhoods in chicago.

[Qanisqineq]

344. very true

"Do you realize that severe depression, which I think afflicts many of the very poor, is more disabling than end-stage heart disease? It takes a lot of effort to get to a store that has these items, then get into the kitchen to prepare them."

Thanks for pointing that out. Severe depression often paralyzes me to the point where I am unable to do anything. I know how much easier it is to just open a bag of chips, or eat other junk food instead of preparing a healthy meal when depressed.

[Donnachaidh]

2. bananas at 37 cents a pound? WHERE? Certainly not MY area

Basing your rant on your own shopping area is just ignorant. Last shopping trip in my area bananas were going for 68 cents a pound - close to double what you claim. And I *do* shop around looking for the best price.

Same applies to all the other price claims. :eyes:

[KittyWampus]

24. Lentils, rice and onions cost pennies. I did the math and I live in an area where prices are gouged.

[havocmom]

69. Lentils up from 59 cents a pound to $1.89 a pound in two years where I live.

Wages up ziltch. Now. $1.89 IS cheap for good protein, but people have to spend time cooking them and when trying to balance schedules for two or three part-time jobs(plus commute time for most, and that can mean bus schedules which can add an hour or more each way per job) a lot of the working poor don't have time to cook.

Yes, we can eat better for less (IN SOME PARTS OF THE NATION) but cost of food is not the only cost for getting it into bellies.

As to OP's assertion of banana prices... I have not seen that price in over a decade. Fruit? Fresh veggies? Perhaps affordable in some major cities, but don't count on low prices elsewhere. You probably understand that, being in an area where prices are gouged. I know that situation. Sadly, so do millions of others whose wages have not come close to keeping up with the real cost of living simply.

[laughingliberal]

30. I'm in Nevada and bananas are around the price you stated here, too. nt

[lame54]

57. &.49 a pound is the best i've seen

[Retrograde]

111. $0.89 a pound yesterday

at the mid-range store I was at - but avocados and artichokes were on sale, and they have a good selection of reduced-price meats. I shop various places depending on where I am at the time and what I'm looking for: one element of eating frugally is knowing how to use ingredients when they're available and inexpensive. Another is caring about the result and the people who are going to eat the stuff.

[we can do it]

174. Ohio Does, Often Cheaper, Too- at quite a few Stores, Where Do You Shop?

[Donnachaidh]

190. north of Metro Atlanta

And even with local produce (not bananas, obviously) - prices are high and climbing.

[we can do it]

278. Wow, Do You Have Any Farmers Markets? There Are Quite a Few Around Here

[Donnachaidh]

310. not locally -- all of them are south of the city.

:shrug:

[we can do it]

312. That Sucks, They Are Usually Good and Inexpensive

[katsy]

3. The President will focus on jobs.

FLOTUS has her project and it doesn't interfere with POTUS' job.

Can you imagine the poo the gop would fling if Michele interfered with policy making?

Agree with you. This is the perfect battle for our First Lady.

[spinbaby]

4. Let me tell you a story

At the Interstate exit where I get off to go home every day there's a gas station I stop at now and then. They have a little convenience store stocked with drinks (including milk) nasty pre-packaged stuff, stale bread, beef jerky, etc. There isn't a fruit or vegetable in sight unless you count the filling in the fruit "pies." They have a prominent sign out front that they take food stamps. Why would anyone using food stamps shop there? Because they live at the beat-up hotel next door, work at the fast food joints a bit up the road, and don't have transportation.

The point being that, yes, you can eat well and cheaply. But only if you have access to decent stores, if you have a kitchen, and if you have time to cook.

[pipi_k]

17. Agree...those are the major roadblocks...

Little to no access to fresh, healthy food, and time to prepare it.

There was a daytime show on TV (haven't seen it in a while) called, "You Are What You Eat" which showed overweight people exactly what they ate in a week and how to eat more healthy foods.

One of the main problems is that a lot of people don't even realize how much garbage they're packing away unless/until it's all laid out before them (I'm assuming they kept a food diary for a week first). Some of those people were faced with such huge piles of trashy, disgusting food they ate that they actually cried.

OK...so the host (Dr Jillian) shows these people new ways to eat. Great.

But the major drawback is that food preparation is time consuming since it's prepared fresh each day from fruits and vegies and maybe some lean meats, but mostly tofu, etc. Plus you'd almost have to shop for fresh at least three times a week.


If I had a personal chef who didn't mind doing all that, hell...I'd gladly eat healthy too.

:)

[Bettie]

35. I'm a very good cook, but I've never

been able to make tofu palatable. The texture just disgusts me.

I've tried sauteing, broiling, stewing, stir frying....it is just mushy and gross.

I'll stick with my chicken and veggies.

Not everyone is cut out to be a vegetarian.

[pipi_k]

110. I only used it once, in a stir fry or something

along with a few pieces of real chicken.

You're right.

No matter what you do to tofu, you can't fix the texture of it. For me, it was sort of like eating a hunk of pork fat, only without the good taste.

blech

:puke:

[K8-EEE]

327. I make the BEST TOFU!!! "Pressing" is the secret

Press out the excess water (an easy process involving weighting it down between kitchen towels or paper towels) then you can fry it up crispy, sautee it, do a number of different things and it has a great creamy texture inside.

You can't just cut it up and throw it in the pan, that's how people get the "wet sponge" tofu that doesn't absorb any of the flavors you are cooking it with.

My fave tofu sauce is peanut butter, soy sauce, garlic/chili sauce and a little hot water, great with steamed brown rice and broccoli with stir fried 'fu!!

[KittyWampus]

27. and eliminating "food deserts" is a primary goal of MO's program.

[spinbaby]

43. There are plenty of those

Other countries take good food for granted. We really have to go looking for it.

In Germany I found that the typical complementary hotel breakfast included raw vegetables, fresh fruit, and cheese. The only sweet item to be found was jelly for the toast. Compare that to the typical breakfast offered by American hotels--sugared cereal, sweet rolls, bagels, etc.

In Japan, you can pick up a tasty, nutritious box lunch at any train station.

[havocmom]

72. EXACTLY!

[dustbunnie]

82. And then there are the other stories about the poor in parts of Vermont...

or Plattsburgh, New York, where the obese family drives up to the grocery store, fills the cart with junk from top to bottom... not one piece of fruit or vegetable in sight. The mall food courts filled with people who are so obese they can barely walk. So, your story isn't the only one. There are people who are obese because they like food that tastes good, and eating is their only entertainment.

Yes, there's often an issue for inner city people having access to grocery stores, but these are not the only people suffering from obesity. Actually, poor city people who manage to move into an immigrant neighborhood often have it great (relatively speaking). People of some ethnicities bring their excellent, healthy eating habits here and cheap markets open up in their neighborhoods.

[japple]

87. Yup. Lots of folks in my (rural) area do their grocery shopping

at the dollar stores. I think most of the canned fruits come from China and the other foods are packaged items like macaroni and cheese, ramen noodles, peanut butter and canned soups. An elderly friend of mine shops there alot because she can get large cans of canned apples and fruit jams (from China) for about $1.00. Of course there are no fresh or frozen fruits and vegetables.

Many folks in urban areas don't have access to large chain supermarkets and must buy their groceries at small neighborhood markets where prices are higher. I live in a rural area and have to drive 25 miles (round trip) to the nearest Kroger. There is a dollar store about 3 miles away. Many of my neighbors do their shopping there. Many of these neighbors come from families who once grew and preserved their own food, including vegetables and livestock, and wild-harvested fruits, berries, and game. Now, they just go to the dollar store.

[spinbaby]

130. That hit a nerve with me

My father in-law LOVES to shop at the dollar store because he loves a bargain--it has nothing to do with transportation or money. He's 85 and in deteriorating health largely because he eats crap--packages of cookies, tubs of gumdrops, etc. He thinks "vanilla" fake Oreos from China are healthy because they're not chocolate. I keep taking him food but it doesn't help. Lately he's started hoarding the crap from the dollar store so there are towers of packaged crap piled in the kitchen. It's probably a lost cause.

[Tailormyst]

150. He's 85

I would suggest just letting him eat what he wants and to enjoy the years he has left. Don't waste any time or stress yourself out over it. If I make it to 85, that is what I would want my family to do.

[spinbaby]

164. He's eating junk because it's a "good deal,"

not because he likes eating it.

[nadinbrzezinski]

181. Just a guess

like my dad he went through some really rough spots... so let me guess money (and deals) matter more than actually doing what is right for the body.

Yep, seen it...

I understand, trust me.

[Maru Kitteh]

220. He could be suffering from depression. Can you talk to a local agency on aging?

He's so lucky to have you there at least trying to look out for him. So many elderly do not - so a great big :hug: to you. You are awesome!

Depression is hugely under-diagnosed in the elderly population. Changes in eating behavior are big red flags. I can probably hook you up with more information if you'd like.

I hope everything goes well for you and your FIL. Best wishes!

[japple]

205. I'm wondering if those foods from China are safe. After the petfood

with melamine and tainted baby formula, etc., I'd be wary of eating anything from China. Of course, I'm wary of eating anything from giant food producers here in the US as well. I cook mostly from scratch, grow and preserve some of my food, and buy from local producers when possible. But I don't expect my friends who shop at the dollar store to understand. All they see are the "bargains."

In addition to the prices, I think a lot of elderly people buy pre-packaged stuff because it's easier. If they fill up with cookies and snacks from the dollar store, they're not too hungry at meal time and will be more satisfied with a bowl of soup or cereal.

[japple]

88. Duplicate post-- deleted

[NYC_SKP]

5. Who said that about Michelle?

What a dork!

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[laughingliberal]

36. Well, that was uncalled for on their part

However, I also don't like these bash the poor, depressed, and time challenged among us threads, either.

[KittyWampus]

41. one reason I never gave Rachel Ray grief, she got the concept of "30 minute meals" into our

collective consciousness :)

As for depression- I've found when I am on an "upswing" and accomplishing more it's a good idea to make food and prepare it ahead then freeze it for when there's a time crunch or I am feeling "bla".

Also, crockpots. Soooo easy to put a bunch of stuff in there, turn it on and get delicious results using not greatest cut of meat or barely acceptable veggies.

[laughingliberal]

47. Those are all good ideas

I'm just not okay with shaming people over food choices. During my time working as an RN in home health diabetic teaching and instruction on diets for heart disease, etc...were a big part of my job. I found it best to approach this with great sensitivity and patience and absolutely 0% judgment of those patients.

[Missy Vixen]

244. So, question

How many of the economically disadvantaged have a crock pot? I see them on sale at Target and other department stores for $25 or so. A good rice cooker is $25.

Maybe it would be a nice thing if some of those who are convinced it's so easy for a single mom or others who don't have a lot of disposable cash donated a brand-new crock pot or rice cooker to the local food bank, and let them decide who would get it.

It's an idea.

[we can do it]

303. Garage Sales, Estate Sales, Craigslist - Cheap, Older and Possibly Made In USA

[nemo137]

351. GoodWill/Salvation Army/resale shops usually have them for pretty cheap, too.

They are a lifesaver, too.

[JNelson6563]

6. I agree.

I am a single mom with a teenage son (the kind that can eat a lot). Buying bagged fruit and frozen veggies is inexpensive and healthy. I buy meat that's on sale and make liberal use of my second-hand slow-cooker to turn cheaper cuts into tasty, tender dinners.

In the winter one-pot dinners are a favorite and very inexpensive to do, not to mention easy on the schedule. I can throw everything into the pot and head out to work. When i am home at end of the day, voila! The house smells great and dinner it ready. And only one pot to wash. A little salad on the side, a little bread and a glass of milk and we have a healthy dinner that was cheap and easy to make. Don't forget there's likely to be left-overs that make for a nice lunch.

When I am shopping, it's when I consider buying processed (unhealthy, often empty calories) that I see my food bill going up too fast. Put that stuff down and buy some real food and you will see you spend much less for much better.

Julie

[Raschel]

78. I agree.

I started eating whole foods after I was diagnosed with breast cancer.

I find I spend about the same or less. I don't always follow it perfectly, but rarely do I spend money on empty calories like cookies, pizza rolls. I'll buy them once in awhile but not often. If I want sweets, I try to bake my own, avoiding all of the junk that's in store bakery, and it's usually cheaper!

[seabeyond]

7. less than $2/pound. ... easily? really. i have never seen under $3.39lb

where do you live.

i am all for eating healthy. and we do. i am also very much into finding go buys and pounce on them when i see them. i am not into creating an illusion for people to live in order to lecture.

reality is, food has drastically gone up per quantity we receive. it is not easy for many

[cali]

26. yikes. I live in the sticks in northern vermont

and I buy chicken breasts all the time for 99 cents a pound. Anyway, I disagree with the OP because it's all about education and persuasion.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seabeyond]

37. no way. wow. i have seen GREAT deals at 2.99 and that was like a year ago, two.

bought lots, seperated and froze. but financially i can buy big packets to end up with a deal and seperate for more than one meals.

[MercutioATC]

28. Boneless chicken breasts $1.99/pound here in Cleveland.

Apples $1.49/pound.

...and that's at one of the more expensive grocery stores.


I know that food prices vary, but the OP's claims are pretty in line here.

[laughingliberal]

38. Huh, $1.99/lb for boneless chicken breasts is what the stores here put them on sale for

Sometimes, I see whole fryers on sale for $.99/lb. And that's the cheap store.

[Jamastiene]

282. Chicken Breasts are ON SALE for $2.60 a pound this week here in my hometown.

That's half price though. Chicken breasts are normally $5.20 a pound.

http://foodlion.mywebgrocer.com/Circular.aspx?c=55441&n=4&s=73067203&g=90e7e681-ccd5-4e76-8829-d894be92efb6&uc=7B35461

[laughingliberal]

319. Seems like they're usually somewhere over $3/lb here if not on sale

Truthfully, I don't even know cause I never look at them unless I see they are on for $1.99. My husband loves chicken breasts and it's a stretch to get them at $1.99.

[seabeyond]

40. hm.... again, i am all for buy deals and healthy but i have the cash to buy those deals

going to store today. gonna look more closely at prices. i try not to, cause i get pissed, need the stuff and then dont buy.

[we can do it]

180. Its Pretty Common in Ohio, Seems Weird That Its That Expensive in Texas

[noamnety]

185. Their prices were accurate for my area.

Hamtramck (Detroit): boneless skinless chicken breasts are 1.77 per pound. http://www.bozekmarkets.com/
(Their ad says all month, but their ad prices are generally semi-permanent.)

Even at the chain stores prices have been oddly cheap for the last few years. I am making a turkey next week that I got at krogers at thanksgiving for 29 cents a pound. Krogers has regularly had 10 pound bags of chicken leg quarters for 59 cents a pound - meaning you can gorge yourself on over a pound of plain boiled or baked chicken for less than a single taco bell tostada.

Aldis has bananas for 39 cents a pound - I know that price because I buy them for my classroom all the time. I feel bad, kids were asking for bananas on Monday but the ones I bought on Sunday are still too green to bring in. I pick through for the smallish bananas because it's coming out of my pocket and I'm trying to feed as many kids as possible, but I'm looking at those bananas right now, I spent $1.74 on 18 bananas.

[seabeyond]

207. i am going to definitely pay attention when i go to the store today. nt

[noamnety]

213. I recommend looking to ethnic markets in your area.

If you are in Texas, maybe there are some Mexican markets. Explore them. When I lived in California, I bought produce at a place owned by a Vietnamese couple. In the Detroit area, ME or Polish is easy to find. I find that foods from other cultures tend to be a little less processed, and it's reflected in what they sell and how it's priced (what's considered a staple).

I buy anything that's the same or cheaper at local ethnic markets because I'd rather support them than a big chain CEO, and I pay differently at the small markets. I go out of my way to pay cash at those places even though it costs me a little more to pay cash, whereas I'll charge at a grocery store because I don't care as much whether a big chain has to pay the credit card fees.

[GoCubsGo]

218. Here, too.

My town got an Aldi a year ago. I paid 35 cents a pound for bananas a few weeks ago. (I like them BECAUSE they have the small bananas.) The prices on produce vary week to week, but they are almost always less than the grocery store. It's a shame the inner cities don't have them. It's not uncommon for them to have grape tomatoes for 89 cents a pint.

We also have a chain here in the Southeast called Reid's. They have some really good prices on meat and produce as well. Their produce selection is better than Aldi, and sometimes the prices are better, too. One of the reasons I like them is that they have a marked-down produce shelf. (I am not too proud to buy marked-down produce if it's in reasonably good condition.) They have meat prices that are even cheaper than what the OP listed. 39 cents a pound for family pack chicken leg quarters, 89 cents a pound for pork shoulder... Even better prices if the meat is about to go out of date. I am not much of a meat eater, but they are the place to go when I want to cook up a pot of chili verde. If only I could get avocados at four for a dollar like my dad in Phoenix can.

[we can do it]

283. I Was Told These Prices Are Fictious, But I See Michigan Is Pretty Much Like Ohio

[Bettie]

8. Generic mac and cheese costs about 40 cents a box

...and will feed more than one person.

Ramen noodles are ten to twenty cents a package.

To you, four dollars may not be a lot, heck, it is not a lot to me, but I recall when Ramen was about the only thing I could afford. Though, I do recall splurging on a small jar of peanut butter once in a while too, to add some protein to the mix.

I'm lucky, my DH has a good job and I am able to stay at home with my kids and serve then nutritious meals (which contain veggies that the reject with extreme prejudice). Some moms are not as lucky as I am and do the best they can.

Beating people up for being fat or even a pound or two over a perceived ideal is wrong and stupid and really, there are better places to focus. How about homelessness? Jobs? Nope, the fatties are the best place to focus because they are the real problem in our country, the number one problem.

Yeah, right.

[KittyWampus]

32. A bag of lentils, rice, onions costs pennies per meal and feeds for several meals.

There is a world of difference between being overweight by a pound or two and being obese.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

92. But that assumes that you know how to cook from scratch

or have someone who can teach you.

[arthritisR_US]

136. Lydia, there are some really good web sites out there with recipes and

instructions on how to prepare. It can seem quite daunting at first but actually it's pretty basic and I make huge batches of things and freeze them. I sure know how you're feeling because it initially struck me that way and I HATE to cook :-)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

148. I do know how to cook lentils and rice, but your suggestion to just look things up

on a website isn't necessarily feasible for someone who is second or third or umpteenth generation poor.

[nadinbrzezinski]

175. Ok here is a question to you...

how many working poor HAVE a computer?

There is this technology gap that is quite real as well.

[arthritisR_US]

214. I misunderstood. I thought she was referring to herself. So, in reference to

your question I see your point and apologize for my obtuseness. :cry:

[nadinbrzezinski]

215. No problem,

just that many of us tend to look at life from our point of view... and things like this are hard at times.

I for one am glad that they are finally trying to do something about them food deserts, but on top of that people will need to learn what to do with that food. Detroit is a good look into this. Yes, some local farmers markets have risen from the ashes of abandoned housing, as well as community gardens, but they have issues with teaching people lost skills.

[arthritisR_US]

233. I can't believe how much I learn from DU. It's so easy to get caught in a Narcissistic cocoon but

then I get introduced to others plight and it's a much needed awakening, I thank you all for that:-)
There were several years when I didn't have two shillings to rub together. Going through chemo, radiation and surgeries all I had to rely on was Government assistance. At least now I can work again and although money is no different than before when I couldn't, I am tackling one debt at a time. I only explain this so you'll understand that I'm not some rich wench at the end of a keystroke. :blush:

[CTyankee]

141. Some of the packages have cooking instructions on the back.

If you look for those, then you're set to go. I don't have fancy cooking utensils but I can cook beans in a pot with some water...

[Lydia Leftcoast]

149. Yes, but if you haven't been alerted to the possibilities of lentils and rice

then you're going to walk right past them in the store.

Education is the key.

[CTyankee]

157. Yes, education is the key...

[we can do it]

183. How Bout the Library, Its Still Free, Lots of How To Books

[Scout]

191. and have a kitchen, pots and pans, utensils... n/t

[we can do it]

299. Most People Have These Things. This Isn't Just About the Homeless

[csziggy]

324. County Extension office have programs to teach people to cook healthy for less

Here is the description from our local office:

Expanded Food and Nutrition Education Program (EFNEP)

The Expanded Food and Nutrition Education Program (EFNEP) was designed to help limited resource families improve their diets through nutrition education and to help them stretch their food dollars. EFNEP teaches a series of FREE nutrition classes for eligible adults. The classes are taught by trained program assistants and can be coordinated to fit into your organization’s schedule – once a week, several times a week, bi-weekly, etc.
EFNEP shares ideas on:

* Ways to eat healthy
* Tips to save money on food
* Low cost, easy to prepare recipes
* Safe food handling

Here is the link to the national program: http://www.csrees.usda.gov/nea/food/efnep/efnep.html

It is designed to assist limited-resource audiences in acquiring the knowledge, skills, attitudes, and changed behavior necessary for nutritionally sound diets, and to contribute to their personal development and the improvement of the total family diet and nutritional well-being.
Adult EFNEP

Through an experiential learning process, adult program participants learn how to make food choices which can improve the nutritional quality of the meals they serve their families. They increase their ability to select and buy food that meets the nutritional needs of their family. They gain new skills in food production, preparation, storage, safety and sanitation, and they learn to better manage their food budgets and related resources from federal, state, and local food assistance agencies and organizations. They also may learn about related topics such as physical activity and health. EFNEP is delivered as a series of 10-12 or more lessons, often over several months, by paraprofessionals (peer educators) and volunteers, many of whom are indigenous to the target population. The hands-on, learn-by-doing approach allows the participants to gain the practical skills necessary to make positive behavior changes. Through EFNEP, participants also experience increased self-worth, recognizing that they have something to offer their families and society.

In the same way that the County Extension offices taught rural families how to grow, prepare and store healthy food decades ago, they now seem to trying to help urban families improve their lives. Of course, this is the only way the Extension Service will stay relevant but it is a good role for them.

[Maru Kitteh]

224. lentils, rice, onions, lentils, rice, onions, lentils, rice, onions, = LET THEM EAT CAKE

[gmoney]

226. That sounds like a pretty icky cake.

:)

Someone posted elsewhere "Unless Life hands you sugar and water, your lemonade is gonna suck!"

[GoCubsGo]

42. Nobody is beating up people for being fat.

I guess you are not aware that the biggest strain on our health care system is from obesity-related illnesses. Are you going to take care of some of the children whose parents drop dead from diabetes or a heart attack at age 40? That is already happening now. Half the people I know are on expensive blood pressure pills and other medications that they wouldn't need if they weren't overweight and did some exercising. Many of them are on medication for arthritis, which was caused by their joints being worn out from carrying all that excess weight. That is what is driving insurance cost through the roof. You don't think that is a "real problem"? Seriously???

Mrs. Obama is trying help create a system where everyone can get healthy food. But, it won't happen until the people themselves start demanding it, rather than passively making do with shit like ramen noodles and boxed macaroni and cheese. Many people CAN afford healthy meals, but they eat the crap because they don't know any better. I know middle-class people who were in their 40s before they ever tried broccoli. And, it wasn't because they had no access to broccoli. These are the people Michelle is trying to reach. She is not beating them up. She is trying to educate them.

[we can do it]

187. Thank YOU!

[Raineyb]

261. I don't think that the accusation of beating people up for being fat was directed

at Mrs. Obama. But it damn sure fits for a good number of people posting in this thread.

[dustbunnie]

96. Where I lived when I was poor and struggling, I couldn't afford the corner store mac 'n cheese.

It was $1.35 a box. Chef Boyardee mini raviolis over $2.00. Chips - forget about it. Ramon noodles get you hungry again in an hour. And for the $1.35 box of mac 'n cheese I could get a bag of rice or lentils that made for several meals. Even without throwing in meat or chicken or something... just doused it with hot sauce.

[GoCubsGo]

9. Thank you.

Michelle is not President, so it's not her job to focus on jobs. That is what her husband and Congress are being paid to do. Obesity IS a huge problem. It is the biggest strain on our health care system, and anything that can keep people from dealing with those insurance company leeches should be welcomed, not ridiculed.

May I add that a pound of lentils costs about a buck, and provides five or six servings of protein. The same goes for other dried beans. And, they're even healthier than chicken breasts.

[asdjrocky]

10. You've never lived in a bad neighborhood, have you?

People make these statements all the time and they don't realize that there are now entire "zones" in this country of plenty where the closest grocery store is miles away. No kidding miles.

You have to learn to walk a mile in someone else's shoes.

[lxlxlxl]

23. they are pretty oblivious...also advertising and convenience is pushed in these areas

take urban nyc...most apartments dont have big enough kitchens to handle real cooking or food storage. I dont have a working freezer in my apartment

also we've been subjected to years and years of fast food advertising whose success has created the ability to deliver cheaper faster food than ever. why go to the store if a bucket of chicken is $4 on the corner.

responsibility is a two way street, but dont think for a second that fast food and advertising has no part in this problem

[KittyWampus]

34. You didn't even read about MO's actual program, did you? She focuses primarily on eliminating

"food deserts".

YOU have to learn to actually become informed before spouting off.

[asdjrocky]

158. And once that is done, feel free to jump all over poor people for not eating healthy enough.

Some of the people around here just crack me up, so obvious they've never had any real finical problems or lived in a really poor neighborhood, and yet, they all have no problem at all telling us the ways of the world.

YOU have to learn that not everyone lives in your world before you spout off.

[dustbunnie]

217. There are lots of people with financial problems who eat shitty food and are not obese.

That's because they don't have the money to buy enough food to get fat. There are lots of people who are obese who don't live in the inner city and are not forced to buy from the corner convenience store. (When I was poor, I couldn't afford to shop there. I had to schlep on the subway or drag my granny cart to the groceria.) There are plenty of people who can afford to eat reasonably okay but don't because of lack of education. Why shouldn't these people be helped? Just because you can't reach everybody, does that mean NOBODY gets help?

I don't know... there are lots of people who have cancer and will die. Should we not treat others so the terminal patients won't feel bad, or to be "fair"? The whole idea of not helping any obese people and their families because some people live in inner cities and don't have access to cheap markets makes about as much sense IMO.

[asdjrocky]

231. Who said don't help?

We need help. Give us stores in our neighborhoods, then people can complain all they want about what poor people eat.

The closest grocery store to my neighborhood is far away, and a lot of poor people don't have a car.

[dustbunnie]

241. That is an issue for some people, but not all.

Obesity is a much bigger problem for low income families who can afford to buy junk food and do so because A) they lack education B) they lack motivation to eat better because no one taught them how many health issues are in store for them C) Junk food and a DVD is Friday night entertainment for people who can't afford to go out. Some of these people can be helped by a few initiatives and what Mrs. Obama is doing is commendable IMO.

Getting grocery stores into some neighborhoods is another issue. But I don't see anyone complaining about what poor people eat.

I'm seeing far more complaints by people who don't want ANYBODY to see ANY PSAs or get any info at all because there are people out there with no refrigeration or who are depressed and what... seeing a PSA on television with 30 seconds of nutritional information is going to "hurt" them?

Edited to add: I saw some of the Canadian initiatives in action over Christmas. A few of the television ads are incredibly good and certainly enough to make one think no matter what your financial backround. Plus, they're on often enough to provide balance to the Pizza Hut and drink massive quantities of Coke ads.

[noamnety]

286. How is she going to do that? (nt)

[zipplewrath]

45. Please WALK that mile

I'm all for walking a mile in others shoes, I just wish the "others" would walk that mile. It will go directly to the larger subject. Obesity is about diet AND exercise.

If there is a legitimate criticism of the OP, it is that it assumes the asssets in the home required to leverage these ideas exist. Assets like refrigeration (including freezer space), cooking facilities, trasnportation and the time to do the shopping and cooking. My wife used to work with extremely low income families. She would do alot of teaching about shopping and cooking "smart"(she's a good cook, she's been offered professional cooking jobs). She could do pretty well until a certain economic level was reached. Once you get to the point that utilty bills aren't getting paid, and landlords don't fix broken appliances, it gets pretty hard to guide them to good diet/food prep choices. Shopping every day (because of a broken fridge)is onerous for many and a transportation nightmare as well.

[mrs_p]

46. time is a major asset

mom left for work at 430am and got home ~6pm. we kids had to learn to cook if we wanted breakfast, lunch, and dinner before she got home.

[zipplewrath]

50. Absolutely

I took public transportation to and from work for 2 years. Made my work day a good 2.5 hours longer. When I finally "broke down" and got a car, I was amazed at the amount of time I saved. Not only was the "commute" shorter, but I could run other errands on the way to/from work. If you walk around Manhattan long enough, you begin to notice that the same kinds of stores repreat themselves over and over, often within 10 blocks of each other. The reason is because people who walk to their morning commute want to be able to run their errands going/coming to work or other trips on public transport. Otherwise it takes up a lot of time to "run errands". There is a reason that people want cars. It saves time.

[asdjrocky]

160. Thank you.

I'm always surprised, and I guess I should not be, at the suburban blindness that goes on here.

Sometimes I feel like it's a real "let them eat cake" attitude.

And you'll notice, the op did not take it upon his/herself to debate the op.

[Dorian Gray]

116. That is true

and there are certainly obstacles in ensuring that everyone has a nutrition filled diet, but I appreciate that the FL is doing her part in educating people about health and nutrition. People can still choose whether to apply the information as they wish.

[CTyankee]

144. Our city made it a priority to get a major supermarket chain to open a store

in an inner city neighborhood. It has gorgeous produce and nice meat and fish counters. It is on a main thoroughfare and I used to stop in on my way home from work downtown. It was convenient for me. The store also provided jobs for people in the neighborhood who might have not had the opporunity or had no car and this way they could walk to work. It's great but it took some real determination on the part of the people in our city who cared...

[asdjrocky]

162. I think you just gave me something to talk to my city council about.

Thanks. I'd love to know more about how this was done.

[CTyankee]

177. There was an OP Ed piece in the NY Times back when it happened.

That was right after Clinton signed the bill to end welfare as we knew it. There was a need to give jobs to inner city mothers. That was the impetus. You can google it. It was a Shaw's supermarket in New Haven, CT.

[hobbit709]

11. Frozen items are great

if you have:
1. Plenty of freezer space
2. Don't have to worry about the electric bill.
3. Have the time and knowledge on how to cook.

Most Americans expertise in cooking involves taking it out of the bag or box and putting it in the nuker.

[freeplessinseattle]

76. and aren't taking the bus on a warm day and walking far

great list btw, enlightening to some.

[donheld]

109. .

:thumbsup:

[CTyankee]

142. Actually, microwaving veggies is pretty nutrtional.

I do it just with plain, frozen vegetables as we have to watch our sodium and fats.

[winyanstaz]

212. I have heard that microwaving vegetables kills all the nutrition.

I dont like the way the microwaves feel when a microwave oven is on (yes I can feel them) so I have thrown out my microwave and I only cook from scratch now.

[Codeine]

289. Microwaves just heat the water molecules.

They aren't hurting the nutrients any more than another heating method would, and without a pan of water they may actually help maintain the quality of the food.

[amandabeech]

250. Maybe Michelle could mention that you can take frozen veggies out of the bag,

put them in a bowl or plastic container and nuke them for five minutes.

They are easy to prepare, really, but very few people seem to know that.

Keeping frozen food or ice cubes in your freezer also helps keep it cold and reduces your electricity cost. Once you freeze the stuff, it acts like an old-fashioned ice box.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

12. yeah man!

All those studies linking poverty to nutritional intake and obesity? Garbage compared to your andecdotal analysis of the local grocery store! Congratulations, genius: you have in a single stroke dis-proven decades of research from the UN, the FDA, The American Dietetic Association, and thousands of well respected Universities! There's no getting past your razor-sharp insight, dude!

Seriously, do you realize that your statement is just as f**king stupid as denying global warming because of a snowstorm? Please, do a little real research before you make any further ridiculously ignorant proclamations; you are embarrassing yourself.

On edit; just to be clear about this, I work with nutritionists who volunteer in inner cities, First Nations Reservations, Appalachia, prisons and other corners of this country where the people have been forgotten, abused or just plain beaten down. Obesity and starvation are directly tied to poverty and education. Period. You may not think that Michelle should focus on jobs but your statement about food is just plain fucked.

[amandabeech]

252. What I actually posted, was that Michelle should work on gardening so that people

who don't have jobs or are working for peanuts could save money and eat better.

A lot of people are having financial problems and a garden is a good place to save money.

I still believe that focusing on obesity takes away from her gardening initiative which I think is more important right now. A simple message is the best.

I agree with those who have insinuated that the obesity issue is something of a class-based meme right now. I've seen a couple of posts here on DU where the poster attempts to discredit a media story by calling the person at the center of the story, "fat." I think shows you what the latest pre-occupation is among the cognoscenti. I also think that Michelle should have left her daughters' weight out of it.

I also advocated that she get involved in community gardens in cities. I first read about them when I lived and worked in the NY area back in the '80s. The gardens were in the South Bronx and many were cultivated by seniors who still remembered how to do it.

I also think that her husband should get out of the vending machine issue and focus on jobs.

Vilify away!!

[OHdem10]

13. Where?????? not here.

May I suggest that if Michelle worked on Jobs. The Media
Narrative would be Hilary is back! Then the attack would
be---she was not elected.

Michelle has been very smart to stay away the issues
belonging to the President.

[Jennicut]

15. I have no problem with Michelle focusing on obesity

but there are many neighborhoods in America that have less then ideal places to shop at. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarket_shortage This is a good place to look at some issues as to why there is a shortage. The lack of land and cost of it (more expensive in big cities) is a big reason why there is a lack of supermarkets.

[Mari333]

16. ooooo. this should get good.

:popcorn:

[sui generis]

18. I see this every single time I get groceries

The thriftiest shoppers using their coupon smarts to buy extra bags of chips, soda, candy bars and total crap food. I kid you not I've seen a mom with four kids buy hotdogs, macaroni mix, and cases of fully leaded soda and chips, chocolate milk in the jug, and bags of candy, ramen noodle packs and the quadruple box of pop tarts, and it wasn't halloween or pre-game, and fill up her grocery cart with the crap.

Not a single veggie or even remotely healthy thing in the basket - and it's extremely common at least here in Texas to see horrible nutrition choices.

I think it does come down to education - I buy a weeks worth of groceries at a time and feel guilty if I get brownie mix once a month or splurge for whole milk instead of low fat. When I see what somebody's going to feed their brood of kids waddling through the store with them, for the next five or six nights, it really is disturbing because that "education" is also learned by those kids. It's what Mom buys, it must be good.

I dunno - I grew up in a house where we got a two litre bottle of Tab once a month if Mom splurged and it was GROSS, and flat after the second day, so I've never taken to sodas or even sweets. My Dad grew up on a farm and none of us ever had the luxury of claiming we didn't like a particular veggie, so to this day there are none that I won't eat - a meal for me is veggies, and a little bit of meat.

Every once in a while I might splurge and make some rice or pasta but I've just gotten used to veggies as "main" course with meat as the side. Best part of leftover veggies, once a week or so I shred everything into chicken stock, run a blender stick through it, add a dolop of milk or sour cream and some fresh peas or corn after fifteen or 20 minutes on the burner and voila, a lovely crunchy mixed veggie chowder so nothing goes to waste.

It's been a lifetime habit - and it's kept me lean and trim and fierce all these years, without ever being hungry or on a "diet".

Mobama is right, start early.

[KittyWampus]

39. I think it's education but with an understanding that people can essentially become addicted to crap

High salt, sugar, fat content in the food you eat creates certain physical effects that can cause a person to want more of same type of food.

This involves chemicals in the brain and hormones that regulate body's sugar levels, for instance.

[we can do it]

192. Its Is an Addiction, and People Defend the Habit the Same as any other addiction

[Codeine]

290. +1

People aren't eating shit because they have no other choices (with a few exceptions, obviously) but rather because they really, really enjoy consuming shit. They like fatty, salty, sugary, low-nutrient shit food. They enjoy eating it in disgusting quantities and are profoundly unconcerned with health.

[blueamy66]

202. Great post.

Sounds alot like my life/experiences.

I learned at an early age....guess I was lucky. We weren't poor, but we weren't wealthy either.

I cannot stand soda...maybe some Sprite if my stomach is upset.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[handmade34]

20. I am thrilled that Michelle Obama has taken on the cause

...much needed and a big job to take on. I will not argue with you about cost. I can eat well on a few dollars a week because I am vegetarian, love rice and beans and know how to cook. The problem we have here is not necessarily cost. Is is seriously altering the way some people think about food and nutrition. My experience is that people are pretty testy when it comes to suggesting that they can eat better or it might be healthier (or better for the environment) to cut down on meat. Access is another problem. In many neighborhoods and communities you can't find fresh, nutritious food even if you have the money.

Processing and corporate production of our food source is the biggest obstacle to eating well. Most low income kids' diets are most likely 90% processed, high caloric and low in nutrition. The solution lies in drastically changing the way most people get their food, look at food, eat food and the environment in which they eat it. That is one huge job.

[GoCubsGo]

49. Exactly right.

And, the food corporations will not change their ways unless the people demand better products from them. That includes those with low incomes. I think Michelle is trying to push them into speaking up and demanding better for themselves.

[stray cat]

25. I think her husband - some guy name Obama - is working on job creation

Of course Michelle can talk about the need for jobs and how people should work but do you really think thats going to help anyone?

[nc4bo]

33. Frozen bags of berries cheap? Small bag of blueberries were about $5 w/o tax

that's not cheap. 16 oz frozen blueberries were $8.99. Canned fruits are out of sight with canned peaches and fruit cocktails close to $3 for a large can.

Can definitely find deals of frozen veggies but apples and oranges are ridiculous and the quality is usually mealy apples and tasteless oranges. Banana deals can usually be found.

Can find deals on bulk meat packs and 40 lb. cases of chicken just not at Walmart or neighborhood grocery stores.

I really feel bad for those who live in inner cities and who are unable to reach better deals on (and better quality of) healthy foods.

[mrs_p]

44. we should also take into account

calories/cent... apples and bananas cost more per calorie than does a box of mac and cheese. for example, say for instance a $3 lb of apples has ~5 apples - 5 apples at 80 cal/each gives 400 calories. with the same money, someone could buy 3 boxes of mac and cheese - each having ~3 servings at ~250 cal each - so a whopping 2250 calories for the same price. growing up poor, i would rather (and did) spend my dollar on three boxes of kraft mac/cheese or a package of hot dogs than five apples.

that said, i think ms. obama is doing a great job. obesity is a multifactoral problem that involves unfair subsidies of many industries and neglect of others, poor wages, lack of local farms, etc. awareness is a great thing for michelle and i certainly applaud her. other issues still need to be addresses, however.

[Bettie]

54. Exactly the point I was trying to make

Thanks, you have made the point much better than I could.

[hlthe2b]

51. I have worked on this issue. You are grossly misinformed if

you think the most impoverished areas of any city or throughout the more rural areas of the country necessarily have ready access to the variety of healthy foods that you describe. Not to mention that an increasing number of poor or recently unemployed (former middle class) are now living in motels and can hardly store HUGE bags of fresh/frozen veggies, frozen chicken breasts and other goods--that is, if they can cook at all in these rooms.

Add to the problem that many children have no safe means of walking to school and some have no safe place at all to recreate and thus that poor diet with no exercise becomes a destiny of Type II diabetes. Add to the fact that one needs a certain level of education to know HOW to eat healthy. When you are really poor, your concern is stopping hunger--especially in your kids. Unfortunately, the cheapest foods are also the most calorie dense. If you are counting every penny--that then becomes your focus.

As, I said, I have been dealing with this issue on a public health level and I haven't even started discussing the issues for the elderly. It is far more complex a problem than you describe. We tend to look at the situation and potential solutions through our own perspective--those that would fit our own situation. Unfortunately, for those MOST at risk, those circumstances are quite different. But, I do agree with you that this is a VERY IMPORTANT problem for Michelle to focus on.

[KittyWampus]

56. Michelle Obama's program focusing on obesity includes addressing food deserts PRIMARILY.

[hlthe2b]

59. She's focusing on the mainstream population...

Every little bit helps, I suppose.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

62. thank you

It is amazing how many people don't seem to understand the inter-connectedness of these issues.

[JNelson6563]

63. Ok, the crappiest areas in the most urban places

Sure, the really poor in the areas where fresh ain't available has been addressed (to death) in this thread. The OP did not address that situation. This is a huge country, bigger than NYC and the like. It is easy to become focused on a certain area and forget there are others.

Many of us do not live in the heart of a big city, we see bad choices (seriously bad) in regard to food all day, every day. There are huge swaths of the country that have pretty regular access to groceries of all kinds. Those of us who live out here in the parts of the country that will never be nearly as important as those in the big cities see people with plenty of money and choice loading up the cart with lots and lots of crap that is much more expensive than real food. These are the people who claim they are obese because of genetics or a health issue and that they "never eat".

Yes, many of us are aware that circumstances for the very poor in the inner cities are basically unchanged since the days of Upton Sinclair's The Jungle, but can we at least talk about what it's like in other parts of the country? We promise not to forget that the big cities and the hardships of those citizens are much more important than the lives and hardships of the rest of us little people who live in the smaller, insignificant places.

Julie

[Book Lover]

65. Agreed, as long as you remember that in

cities, and in places other than where you are, bananas haven't been .39 cents/pound in years.

[hlthe2b]

66. I am not in NYC... I am in Colorado... My population includes

urban poor of all races/ethnicities, predominently Hispanic or Asians areas, AS WELL as RURAL and Mountain communities. Colorado REMAINS a largely rural state especially outside the Interstate 25 corridor. It includes YUPPIES enrolling their children in the best schools in the state and it includes two parent working families of all socioeconomic levels that are too exhausted to cook properly. Even in the "wealthiest, most educated" enclaves, the concern over safety means children no longer walk or bike to school--even where they could. These are not problems limited to one group, one SES level, one urban versus rural area.

I don't know what your point is to me, Julie? I see and deal with it ALL and I address the needs and interventions specific to each situation. The fact is that there are overlaps in the issues... NO matter where you live, you very likely have a combination of these risk patterns and, I would hope, would be open to addressing them ALL. I know it is more reassuring to ignore all but the "poor choices" group, but if we are to make a dent at all, we have to be far more comprehensive. Blaming the obese is not the answer, Julie.

[JNelson6563]

104. You're right, I shouldn't have read whole thread,

then your response and targeted you with my annoyance on the issue that I did.

I too live in a place where circumstances are diverse. Well-off, poor, urban, rural, we've got it all in northern MI. Still, from what I hear we don't have the steep prices Colorado does. In my world I see many who just plain eat too much. Be it good or shitty food, they eat lots and lots. It's that simple, really.

I agree some education can make a difference. It's the kids who really need to learn. Adults tend to take comfort in what they are familiar with. Even if they know better. I have a dear friend who is terribly overweight. Her son is far beyond that, I think he will die young due to his over-eating and she has even touched on it. She sees it in her son, knows what's causing it and yet continues to eat too much and gain even more weight herself. She is fully educated, buys some stuff with an eye to the weight business. Buys skim milk and margarine then makes a box of generic mac and cheese and eats the whole thing for lunch. She can afford to eat what she likes but makes her choice. Her adult son calls her for every issue that comes up in his life and she pays for it (plumbing, car repair, whatever) cause he never has money to cover these emergencies. I have eaten with them all plenty of times to know, the son is spending a whole lot of money on food. The son has a son of his own. My friend and her son will never change, they are already educated on nutrition and choose to eat as they do. Hopefully this third generation in the family will learn enough of about the bad things that happen when you eat as his parents and grandma do, to discourage him from forming the same habits. This is not rare. I remember being out somewhere and there were these two terribly overweight gals and they had this beautiful little girl with them. They were eating a whole lot of something and kept yelling at the little girl to eat, eat more! I wanted to go over and tell the poor child, "no, don't keep eating. If you feel full, stop. Listen to them, you'll end up like them." But of course I did no such thing. I have often wondered over the past 15 years or so since, how she turned out.

Show the kids what can happen, on the inside of the body, and this will be the biggest thing that can help. I imagine you must feel like you're trying to bail out the Titanic with a dixie cup at times with your work.

Julie

[hlthe2b]

113. I do... The problems are diverse and at times overwhelming..

I divide the issue of education in terms of lack of basic understanding versus resistance to acting on the knowledge or modifying current beliefs based on newer information. This dichotomy readily differentiates the "haves" versus the "have nots" and each presents its own set of challenges. (The "overly" educated economically advantaged likewise pose a whole set of unique challenges versus the less educated "have nots" when it comes to childhood vaccines as well). So, targeted education is required for each setting, but in other areas the problems do overlap (e.g., lack of time or perceived lack of ability to cook healthy foods seems to be more universal). The whole issue of CONVENIENCE and its inherent correlation with unhealthy eating, crosses all demographics. The lack of physical education programs poses a problem for all of our schools, given our focus on NCLB and proficiency testing. The risk of sedentary lifestyle from lack of organized outdoor recreational activities or even walking/biking (either from lack of community resources or from societal fears of child abduction) cross all demographics.


I think future threads would be well served to carve off a piece of the issue and discuss in a specific context--making that issue and context clear to all who engage in the discussion. That said, I think it serves a good purpose to flesh out the complexities of the issue for all to consider. There is not one cause nor one solution.

[amandabeech]

268. I see it when I go home to Michigan.

It's tough to change people's ideas about food.

You have to go about it in a very gentle, non-condescending way.

I don't think that starting with obesity is going to be the best way.

Starting with how good vegetables and fruits are for you and your children is a better way.

Making those veggies and fruits easier and cheaper to find and easy to cook is a good way.

[sinkingfeeling]

64. Excellent response.

[liberal_at_heart]

118. +1

[On the Road]

52. If You Go to Any Hispanic or Asian Supermarket

you can see people with huge carts of produce paying half of what a typical US consumer would pay. Unless you insist on organic, healthy eating does not need to be expensive.

It does take more time to prepare, but the results are better.

[sinkingfeeling]

68. Just a question. How do you know it's healthy? Do Asian and Hispanic supermarkets have different

suppliers of raw produce? Do you know if the distributor washes them? Meets USDA requirements?

[Retrograde]

119. one data point

a large national chain catering to Asian customers -99 Ranch- tends to have their produce wrapped and bagged so customers can't paw through it looking for the "perfect" pieces and creating more waste and spoilage for the store. The drawback is that they often sell in quantities too large for a small household to use before some of it goes bad, thereby mitigating any savings. OTOH, their meats and fish are generally lower price because they sell cuts and varieties that "American" customers don't normally want, so they're probably able to get them cheaper. The fish are also whole (but usually frozen), so they're probably paying a lower price per pound than if they got them from the supplier pre-dissected and packaged. The same is true for the little Mexican market I sometimes walk to. (Am I the only one who remembers doing grade school arithmetic exercises about how grocer Smith can bring down the cost of expensive items by mixing them with cheaper ones?).

It takes more time and a little more effort to prepare some of the cheaper cuts of meat than it does to throw a frozen item into the microwave, but you're trading off convenience for potentially big savings (and pig's ears and feet make great soup stocks).

[On the Road]

126. The Produce is Not Healthier

and is generally lower quality, even though it tends to sell more quickly and be fresher.

Hispanic and Asian supermarkets are patronized largely by people whose diet consists largely of fresh produce. You can tell by the shopping carts and how large and crowded the produce section is. Prices are also lower, and buying a shopping cart full of peppers, cabbage, onions, squash, and greens is much cheaper than buying large amounts of packaged food.

When Americans think of healthy eating, they tend to think of high-end food in American stores specifically marketed as healthful. That is indeed a more expensive way of eating.

The biggest obstacles to healthy eating are food habits, which Michelle Obama is trying to change, and the lack of preparation time caused by two-income families and long work hours. That is especially true for working-class families.

Changing other people's diet is hard. I hope she has some level of success.

[we can do it]

197. Don't You Wash Produce When You Purchase It? What About Homegrown?

you mean USDA requirements like how much cow poop is acceptable in hamburger?

[Raschel]

81. Cous cous (or rice) and black beans healthy, quick, cheap.

[Overseas]

53. It's more about dollars per calorie. And stores available in the poorest

neighborhoods. And how much cooking you can do when you're working two jobs.

We subsidize mega-agriculture in fast food ingredients far more than we support other fruit and vegetables.

We also don't seem willing to address the thousands of enticing snack ads we see every day on our televisions. We are not allowed to advertise cigarettes on TV but we see lots of hamburgers, pizza, and other snacks. If TV commercials don't effect public health, why not advertise cigarettes as freely as we do the thousands of products of the billion-dollar diabetes-making snack food industry?

I've even seen sincere discussion about the problems of obesity interrupted by luscious yummy food ads. The guests all discuss the sad state of our lack of control over snacking and then we cut to a happy commercial about yummy quick food. But we don't mention the thousands of pro-snacking ads we see on TV.

[Gman2]

55. I am unable to work, heart failure, and a good cook. I shop at the markdown meat bin

and make stews, soups, and other hearty meals. Fruits, veggies, that are separate, are rare. When you are poor, you must cook like grandma.

[sinkingfeeling]

58. Bananas are selling for $.69 a pound around here. The over-ripe ones are $.39.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

60. so that proves it!

The poor are obese because they CHOOSE to be!

:eyes:

[sui generis]

107. it does prove that everyone here likes to generalize

including my statement just now.

That's all it proves. Aren't there more colors than black or white? Also the opposite of making better food choices is not "choosing" to be obese.

This is hysterical, in the :silly: sense, not the funny sense.

[RobinA]

61. As Someone Who Has Worked

with the poor and neither considers them noble nor reviles them, I have a few observation about this. And I am not saying that there aren't ways around some of this stuff, I'm saying this is the reality of what goes on where the rubber meets the road. People on food stamps and other nickels and dimes we call cash assistance rarely have much money at one time. Frozen chicken breasts and other cooked meals often require other ingredients which cost additional money. A bottle of cooking oil lasts awhile, but you have to have the money to buy it and the chicken breasts and the lentils before you have a meal. You also have to have a working oven. Maybe you do, maybe you don't. That's assuming you can get frozen chicken breasts. Very few Americans, poor or otherwise, live within walking distance of a supermarket. People who don't tend to use the corner store, which aren't generally known for their produce departments.

Many people on the bottom of the ecomonic ladder (not everyone) are living in quite a chaotic environment. They grew up in a chaotic environment. They feed their kids hot dogs (which you can get at the corner store) because their mother or Dad fed them hot dogs. They don't know how to cook lentils or much of anything else. Most of us do not realize how much about cooking we learn from growing up in a household where Mom (or Dad) cooked. We take it for granted. I have found two sets of people (in general) who can't cook. People whose mothers (or Dads) didn't cook meals and people who grew up with housekeepers where cooking food was something dome by somebody else and it appeared on the table.

Bottom line - when you have two bucks in your pocket, do you buy a bag of lentils or a bag of potato chips? I buy chips and so do poor people. I normally have more than two dollars in my pocket and gas in my car to go to the grocery store to buy lentils. The poorer person always has two dollars in his pocket and no car.

[sui generis]

77. but among people who DO have choices

who do have cars and stoves and refrigerators, choices are made that maybe have more to do with addressing cravings than addressing nutrition, and that's really habituated not just from our parents, but from our schools, schoolmates, advertising and nutritional education, and face it, habit.

You're right - it should have nothing to do with poverty or nobility or any combination or lack thereof. Mobama was addressing school age children - not necessarily a class of income or privilege, or lack thereof.

My Mom hated to cook - I was little busybody chef junior whenever my sibs wanted something besides AAFES breaded fish sticks, beans, weenies or what was that mushy canned food glop that claimed to be generic "japanese" that you spread over minute rice and served with dry sesame noodles? **shudder** I still have PTSD from that.

:P

Not mentioned, is that as a military brat I got to do the grocery shopping on the way home once a week, and my parents gave me their liquor and cig ration cards to pick up both for them - so I got to make the produce choices more often than my Mom or Dad, with some liquor and butts thrown in to keep everyone happy.

[Mari333]

67. ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limousine_liberal

[superduperfarleft]

71. Bwahahaha. +1

You nailed it.

"Why can't you get your lazy ass to Whole Foods and make some incredibly obscure dish involving lentils like the rest of us! Geez, it's only 4 dollars!"

[Mari333]

75. I know a woman here in my town who rails against the uber poor

and how awful it is that they eat processed cheese, and how fat they are, and how they shop at walmart.
she goes into chicago and buys her months groceries at whole foods, she owns a bed and breakfast here.
she has NO idea what life is like on 5 dollars an hour or less.
she has never lived that life.

she is also a huge dem supporter, and I call her out on her lack of insight quite often.

[sui generis]

79. wait who made this about the uber poor?

whatever that is?

Bunch of borrowed outrage on behalf of the noble poor everywhere, who can't possibly help the choices they are forced to make.

Mythology, and generalization, all the way around.

Mobama's point was more about people who DO have choice not making the right choice. How did this become a flame fest about the "noble poor", or the über-poor (proper ancient traditional spelling that I just now made up)?

This is silly. All the fluffled ruffled feathers over nothing.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

83. yeah, all those WHO, UN and ADA studies about poverty and nutrition

are just myth. :eyes:

Seriously: did you even think about what you wrote before you posted it?

[sui generis]

100. I'm addressing the god damn OP

get off your fluffy high horses people. I didn't say ANYTHING that was untrue in that context.

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

103. self delete

I'm done. This is pointless.

[superduperfarleft]

86. The OP did by oversimplifying the fact that "healthy eating" is not as easily done

as he/she makes it out to be.

I absolutely support MO's initiative on this, and I hope that it addresses the issues we've brought up.

People aren't criticizing MO on this thread, they're criticizing the OP's gross oversimplification of a complex issue.

[sui generis]

101. yes, but doing it without applying a lot of critical thinking either

a lot of emotion though. It is silly - we do this a lot here. You can't make an observation without it becoming a judgement in the eyes of people who have a chip to get off their shoulder, and then a flame fest.

It really is silly - and little of the discussion above addresses real issues so much as plays some misguided paladin to either side.

[hlthe2b]

95. Wow... just wow...

If I say more... well, I won't... Your response, though is just plain unbelievable.

[sui generis]

102. what part?

details?

Newsflash, not everybody agrees, but isn't that the point of civil discussion? It doesn't require judgement, and I thought my response was reasonable. What part did you find unreasonable and shocking?

[hlthe2b]

117. that you seemingly have no tolerance to the broader issue

of obesity outside those that impact you directly. We can all sometimes come off as callous from lack of clarity in what we post. I will hope that that is the case.

On edit, I just read your latest additions to the thread. Callous doesn't begin to cover it, I'm afraid. :shrug:

[sui generis]

120. What is there to tolerate?

I mean, I'm observing, not judging.

There is a difference between sentimentality and compassion, but the area between is not necessarily callousness.

I really was focused on MO's message: children need to learn to make better choices and their environment needs to support that.

I suppose the driver was that obesity is bad for kids, primarily, and bad for health care costs, secondarily, but that is also an observation, and not a judgement.

There is a lot of dander and defensiveness on this thread for not really any valid reason other than people like to posture to both sides because it makes them feel better about themselves for whatever reason.

I am tolerant of that, if somewhat impatient.

[hlthe2b]

122. I appreciate THIS post... and your clarification of your purpose

and intent is posting. Some of your previous posts have come across quite judgmental. What you see as "dander and defensiveness" on this thread, I perceive as frustration from those who understand the extreme complexities of the issues. They see many wanting to distill the whole problem of obesity into a 20 second soundbyte solution fitting a relatively small segment of the population while suggesting those who don't fit are personally at blame (too stupid, too lazy, too ... something) for their situation.

[CTyankee]

153. These exchanges have become depressingly familiar and I am disappointed.

Blaming back and forth on a message board doesn't get us very far in addressing a serious health problem in our country. I am glad Michelle Obama is addressing it but we all need to work together in figuring out how to solve it. We can't just shrug and say "there's nothing that can be done" and just walk away. Or worse, start blaming and yelling at each other.

this is one of those issues that induces "policy paralysis" in people. Nothing gets done because each side is too busy quarrelling with the other.

This problem will not solve itself. People's lives are at risk. We wouldn't stand for it if people's houses were on fire and no one came to their rescue. Nobody is born knowing everything about everything. Michelle is trying some pretty sensible ideas to help and she is in a good position to start the ball rolling on a national initiative. I support her 100%.

[blueamy66]

206. But what about the dollar stores?

They are now selling produce here in AZ.

You really don't have to shop at Whole Foods to get healthy food and/or produce.

[superduperfarleft]

210. I've never seen dollar stores selling it around here.

Around here, you go for your spoiled, overpriced produce at the local market, after wading through the crowd of drug dealers standing at the door.

[blueamy66]

227. That sucks.

Sorry.

I can get 3 green peppers for 99 cents or a bag of baking potatoes or 2 eggplant or a bag of carrots....

[superduperfarleft]

239. Hey, they have to start somewhere.

Hopefully that trend will spread east from Arizona, because it would definitely be helpful.

[LeftyMom]

329. The ones here have produce too.

Well, there are two dollar store chains here, 99 Cents Only and Dollar Tree. 99 Cents Only is much bigger- the stores are the size of a smallish supermarket and about half that space is devoted to food. I've found an amazing amount of healthy food there. They have a good if somewhat limited selection of very cheap fresh produce, organic canned beans and soups, pasta and dried beans, spices, and a refrigerator and freezer section where I've found all sorts of healthy stuff (and a lot of crap too, don't get me wrong.) The other chain seems to only have very cheap crap in their much smaller grocery section and no produce at all.

[noamnety]

338. This comment is so foreign to me.

I have never considered lentils an obscure whole foods item. They sell them at my local dollar store. It's a dollar for 10 servings, each serving is 120 calories. 10 cents a serving. It's nothing obscure to cook with. You put them in water. You boil them. Add salt and pepper for flavor, or an onion if you have one. A 50 cent can of tomato paste or chopped tomatoes if you are living it up.

I've lived on both coasts and in the midwest, and it's never been an exotic ingredient to find - it's with the dried beans in every chain store - or like I said the corner dollar mart by kmart. It's one of those things I make sometimes for my classroom because I can make a huge mass of it with carrots and onions if I have those around and feed 20-30 kids for less than 5 dollars. If I don't add fresh veggies, it's less steps, cheaper and requires less ingredients than boxed mac and cheese. And none of the ingredients need refrigeration, unlike mac and cheese, which has been an issue for me at times.

I don't know why some are portraying the mac and cheese as poor-folks food and lentils as some limousine liberal thing. Maybe it's cultural and you grew up in a house where you never heard of them so you assume they are exotic and expensive and only to be found at specialty shops. For many of us, lentils are just a super cheap filling staple to fall back on when times are tough.

[superduperfarleft]

339. I'm not saying that poor people don't know what lentils are.

What I'm making fun of is the attitude that, "Geez, dummy, just drive out to Whole Foods and get fresh vegetables or get a Costco membership and then you won't be poor and fat."

MO's program sounds great, I've already said that, because it focuses on nutrition education and addressing the problem that many inner-city impoverished neighborhoods have, mainly access to choices when it comes to healthy food. On the other hand, you have the OP, who sounds like a complete ass telling people that may only have a few bucks in their pocket to spend their food money on fucking bananas, or a Costco membership.

[noamnety]

345. I don't think the gist of this thread was " Geez dummy just drive out to Whole Foods."

There were a few people deliberately miscategorizing remarks that way, pretending lentils are some exotic expensive alternative to mac and cheese, when in fact they are cheaper per serving and readily available.

I hope MO isn't going to characterize things like lentils as something for exotic rich people in her nutritional education plan. I would have thought that's exactly the thing her supporters are hoping to hear her talk about - to discuss things like this which are often overlooked but widely available and cheap. I don't know why MO's supporters are excited that she will be teaching people there are affordable healthier alternatives, while simultaneously attacking people here for saying there are affordable healthier alternatives.

[Lorien]

74. Bananas aren't a healthy choice for many people, including those with blood sugar

issues.

I have health issues that force me to eat an extremely healthy diet; bananas aren't on my list, neither are cheap meats (hormones and antibiotics-I don't eat any meat any more) GMO veggies don't do me any favors either. If you really want to eat a healthy diet these days that means a LOT of raw organic vegetables, some organic fruits, grains (mostly brown rice) and beans and lentils-those last two are inexpensive. Fresh organic produce is extremely expensive unless you grow it yourself. Things like non organic strawberries can leave toxins in your tissues for years. Those toxins can block iodine absorption, which causes hypothyroid disease-which goes undetected in more than 50% of all people who have it because Big Pharma tell doctors to rely on their faulty TSH tests for thyroid. That, in turn, causes more obesity.Big pharma makes a huge amount of money from people with thyroid issue; they also cause depression, diabetes, osteoporosis, arthritis, congestive heart failure, fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome.

If we really want to deal with obesity we will focus on the monstrous levels of toxins allowed in our food supplies and talk to patients and doctors about the thyroid scam that's causing an epidemic of illness in America.

[jdp349]

84. He's right!

If you think eating healthy means shoping at Whole Foods, that's why it seems expensive.

I live in Manhattan, if I can eat healthy cheaply here than I'm pretty sure you can do it anywhere.

There are three basic dimensions to eating well depending on what you're interested in

1. Calories - Based on your weight, body composition and general activity level you can calculate approximately how many calories you need to maintain, lose, or gain body weight.

2. Macronutrients - Once you know how many calories you need it is a matter of partitioning your diet between fats, carbohydrates and proteins. Again depending on your goals macronutrient partitioning will vary.

3. Micronutrients and general nutrition - Now that you know how many calories you need, and what you daily diet will be composed of you need to actually pick what foods to eat, and consider

If the biochemistry of nutrition doesn't interest you there are a few basic guidelines that you can use.
1.Avoid animal fat, eat lean cuts of meat, chicken, turkey and fish
2.Avoid simple carbohydrates (unless in need of energy for athletic performance) and eat complex carbohydrates
3.You need fat in your diet, it is essential to your health. Eating fat does not make you fat! Try to consume nonsaturated fats, eat nuts like almonds, walnuts or even peanuts, and cook with olive oil rather than butter.
4.Eat lots of green vegetables
5. Fruit is good for you, but don't overdo do it, fruit has a lot of sugar.

All sorts of foods that meet this basic criteria can be obtained cheaply.

Brown Rice - Cheap
Loaf of Whole Wheat Bread- Cheap
Chicken Breast - Cheap
Whole Wheat Pasta- Cheap
Tomatoe Sauce- Cheap
Apples - Cheap
Oranges - Cheap
Lean Beef - Cheap
Olive Oil - Cheap

etc etc

Now I know this sounds like a pain in the ass, who has time to measure everything out and be so precise? Perhaps you need to do that at first, but eventually you can eyeball it, it becomes intuitive and easy. Like anything worthwhile it takes a little work and discipline. I'm in great health, extremely fit and eat well on approx $70 a week or $10/day in New York City.

A healthier population would do wonders reducing health insurance premiums across the board saving the nation a lot of money and a lot of lives.

[Javaman]

94. Check my post. #96. he's wrong. nt

[jdp349]

176. That's an interesting concept

Do you know where I'd be able to find more research on the prevalence of Food Deserts in Urban areas, the number of people that live in such regions and the strict criteria by which a food desert is formally defined?

I've just started looking now and was wondering if you have any leads.

[Javaman]

242. Other than just googling...

I see these stories from time to time. Some are very well researched from a sociological point of view while others are just pushing the ball forward.

It's still a relatively new concept that is being studied. I've only started seeing this term applied to depressed areas without food accessibility with in the last 2 years.

there was a great story that came out of Brooklyn, New York last year. I believe it was in the Bed-Sty area. There were no supermarket chains at all. There was a dearth of fresh produce. So someone started a weekly produce business to truck fruits and veggies right to the neighbors where people can buy directly from the vehicle. The owner thought it would take time for the business to get off the ground. He also figured that there would be a huge amount of spoilage, thinking that people wouldn't be all that interested at first. He sold out in less than an hour.

I will try to find that story for you.

[Raineyb]

296. That's okay so is the person you're replying to.

I have no idea what his idea of cheap is but none of the things on that list was cheap. Olive oil? It's never been cheap. Chicken breasts? If you're lucky you can get the boneless for 1.99 a pound on sale. Lean beef? Nothing cheap about that. I could go on but considering the warped sense of what is inexpensive I don't see the point.

[sinkingfeeling]

129. You're definition of 'cheap' isn't the same for everybody. Many people cannot afford $70 a week per

person for food.

[jdp349]

194. I'm incorrect for another reason I think.

Actually as other posters have pointed out, I’m incorrect currently for another reason, a phenomenon known as an ‘urban food desert’, which I’m currently reading up on.

At $70/week I spend approximately $3640 a year on food.

*Food as a proportion of total expenditures decreased from 15.0 percent in 1984 to 12.8 percent in 2008, whereas apparel and services fell from 6.0 percent to 3.6 percent over the same period.*
Consumer Expenditure Surivey - http://www.bls.gov/cex/ceturnsthirty.htm

So with an annual food expenditure of 3640, given average US consumption patterns it would imply that my income is (3640/.128)= $28437.5 a year, or put in terms of hourly wage, $13.67 an hour.

Again, take into consideration Manhattan Prices. Also consider the quantities of food I consume as a 20 something 210 lb male with a low BF%, about 3500 cals a day.

[we can do it]

203. I Think Its Cheap for NYC- Those Items Would Cost Much Less In Ohio

[Raineyb]

323. You've not defined "cheap" by providing numbers

so your definition of "cheap" at this point means not a damn thing. And as I happen to live in NYC none of those items you've mentioned are at all cheap.

[asdjrocky]

172. And I imagine you have several stores within walking distance where

you can get all that great stuff, right?

Part of this is economics, please try to realize that.

There are people all over this country that don't have the availability to stores that you do. Once distribution is equal, then you may have a point, but when someone is hungry and they don't have a car, they are going to eat what is close and cheap.

[jdp349]

182. I've just learned of the existence of Urban Food Deserts

and I'm currently doing research, I need to crunch some numbers, give me some time. I'm trying to find a good estimate of the number of people affected and a couple other important metrics.

"Part of this is economics" - Trust me, I of all people understand that.

[asdjrocky]

188. Some people have known about them for years.

It's a shame that most people here have no idea what it is to be poor.

And if they have never been poor, the least they could do is try to educate themselves before the spout off.

[jdp349]

196. It's hard to educate yourself about that which your not aware of

that's why I like coming to these boards.

[asdjrocky]

199. Big Bravo from me my friend.

It's all about the dialog.

[asdjrocky]

198. I think your reply shows what a truly good person you are.

Thanks for the dialog.

[we can do it]

204. Luckily (and Surprisingly) We Have Aldi's In Poor Neighborhoods In Ohio

usually right on the bus route, so you can get better foods (though there's quite a bit of crap food available, too)

[fascisthunter]

85. stop with the judgemental crap towards poor folks

you have no idea of what you are talking about. Live in some poor urban neighborhoods and then you'll get a clue as to how simplistic your reasoning is towards those you seem disconnected from.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

89. Reality check for you

Healthy food requires more preparation time and effort than prepared food.

Many poor people live in neighborhoods where the stores don't even carry much fresh food.

Schools have cut required home ec. classes, so if the parents don't know how to cook, then the kids won't learn either.

Give the average uninstructed person a bag of rice, a bag of lentils, a tomato, an onion, and a spice rack, and they won't know what to do with them.

When I lived in New Haven, CT in the 1970s, the New Haven Food Co-op, which was located in an inner-city neighborhood, offered classes in how to cook a healthy meal for (at that time) a dollar.

The three factors working against a better diet for the poor--

1. Accessibility of healthy food

2. Knowledge of how to prepare it

3. Time and motivation

You really need to get out more if you don't think that these are problems.

[hlthe2b]

108. It seems some on this thread want to discuss only the issue for the non-poor

i.e., the mainsteam or ""normal"" population like themselves. What many of us are trying to tell them is that the lines of delineation are no longer so clear, given the levels of real unemployment and job insecurity, the numbers of home foreclosures and loss of transportation. Even if we pick the "mainstream classical middle class educated DUer" the issues overlap--issues of access, preparation, education and TIME.

It seems the goal for some (and i hope it is a minority) is to simplify the issue of obesity to the point that they feel THEY have total control--that it is just a lack of will power or laziness that is making people so obese (and thus THEY THEMSELVES are not at risk). Blaming the obese for their situation accomplishes this for them. Unfortunately, it doesn't do squat to solve the problem which is becoming a National disgrace, given that it has become such a marker for poor health.

[snooper2]

134. You know what's interesting...

In the what you would call "poorer" areas of the DFW Metroplex you might not see a Tom Thumb ( where the prices can be crazy high ), but you will find a Fiesta where I can get produce at about 1/3 to sometimes 1/2 cheaper than Albertsons.

I grew up poor and one of the main things you learned was "Knowledge of how to prepare it" Of course I was also killing and skinning rabbits at age 10 and also helping when a pig was ready for the freezer. Guess you can't learn to do that in downtown Miami :P


Time and motivation...that's a whole 'nother discussion.....

[Lydia Leftcoast]

152. Knowledge is the key

I grew up with a pretty traditional Midwestern meat and potatoes diet, and I didn't discover a lot of new foods till I went to school on the East Coast.

When I came back for my first Christmas vacation, I offered to make dinner for the family. On the menu was a spinach and mushroom salad with eggplant parmesan. My mother did not know that 1) it was possible to eat raw spinach (she'd only ever had the canned variety), and 2) that there were varieties of mushrooms that could be eaten raw. Eggplant was something she had heard of but never eaten, and she didn't know that Parmesan cheese came any way but in a little green can.

So even a thoroughly middle class mom was clueless with some aspects of cooking from scratch.

[eridani]

352. Same here. When I moved from the midwest to California--

--I was utterly shocked to see my landlady putting broccoli florets in a salad. I was scared they might be dangerous to eat if they hadn't been boiled to mush first.

[TransitJohn]

90. We North Americans shouldn't be eating bananas anyway

if we were serious about mitigating our emissions.

[fishwax]

91. well, you're right about her program but wrong about how expensive eating healthy can be

I mean, it's great that you can get bananas for 37 cents a pound, or whatever, but as several other posters on this thread have explained there are other factors for other people in other places and situations.

But that doesn't mean that Michelle Obama shouldn't try to combat obesity, so I agree with you there ...

[Javaman]

93. Sigh...

A little research goes a long way.

http://fooddesert.net/
We define Food Deserts as large and isolated geographic areas where mainstream grocery stores are absent or distant. Our research has demonstrated the statistical link between Food Deserts and worse diet-related health outcomes, after controlling for other key factors.

Absence of grocery stores plague South Side
http://www.chitowndailynews.org/Chicago_news/Absence_of_grocery_stores_plague_South_Side,29370

A city without chain grocery stores
http://money.cnn.com/2009/07/22/smallbusiness/detroit_grocery_stores.smb/index.htm

No Grocery Store of Its Own? Community Takes Action
http://abcnews.go.com/Health/grocery-store-community-takes-action/story?id=9178659

Grocery store deserts
http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2009/dec/23/grocery-store-deserts/

I can provide you with a ton more links if you desire.

[Gidney N Cloyd]

97. Excellent post.

:thumbsup:

[Rabrrrrrr]

98. The amount of fail in that post is.. well, it's Orson Wellesishly huge

:eyes:

Except for your agreement that Michelle should focus on obesity and nutrition - I agree wholeheartedly on that, and I think that really is our nation's greatest issue beyond the immediate needs of the economy and jobs.

[avaistheone1]

105. The examples you give of food prices you give may well be true -

however you would have to shop all day all over a couple of nearby towns to find those prices where I live. Most poor, working class folks don't have time to that. A simple can of beans is $2 in my local supermarket, and a can of soup is almost $3. A healthy whole grain bread is $5 per loaf.

I can understand why 1 in 5 is hungry in the U.S. with our current economic circumstances. Food especially good food is expensive.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

106. When you have $6 to last you five days until payday --

then eating healthy doesn't even enter the picture. I have been in that situation a few too many times over the years. And I have had to scrounge through seat cushions and pants pockets to put together the money I need to get a 99 cent tostada at Taco Bell that will be the one meal I have that day.

There are somedays that, for many of us, eating healthy is a luxury.

[dustbunnie]

114. Eating one 99 cent tostado a day, several days a week won't make you obese.

Neither will eating a bag of chips, if that's all you eat. Even eating an entire box of mac 'n cheese a day won't make you obese if that's all you consume. It is unhealthy in the extreme, but doesn't cause obesity. The obesity issue is caused by people eating unhealthy food in MASS quantities.

A little education can help SOME of the obese population learn to divert some of their food budget into better choices.

[we can do it]

208. I Think You've Got It

a lot of people REALLY missed the point here.....

[dustbunnie]

225. I know. Obesity isn't the biggest issue amongst the very poor.

It's a much bigger issue among those who can afford to eat reasonably well but lack the knowledge that what they're doing to their bodies is going to hurt them. Or they're following in the foot steps of their families. Have gotten sucked into the fast food void. Whatever.

I posted this up thread as well, but I don't understand this mentality of "well we can't help the people who can't pay utility bills or aren't near a market, so let's not even try to help anybody else at all."

[Codeine]

292. This is absolutely fucking key.

Food is not making people obese. Food is not putting you into the electric cart at Wal*Mart. TOO MUCH food is doing that.

People eat mountains of fucking food every day. It's downright terrifying to watch some folks eat. Portion control will solve most people's food problems easily.

[sui generis]

115. this isn't all or nothing though

on the days that you did have more than six bucks, what choices did you make, and why? Even that answer can't generalize to everyone.

Let's just fan the flames, for the heck of it.

"Rich" people (everyone who is non-poor :hide:) can afford gym memberships, glamour mag subscriptions, and wardrobes that look better on fit and trim bodies. Gym memberships ARE a social organization that reinforces healthier body image messages, among the ultra wealthy idle rich who can afford gym memberships, including better food choices and sexual competition for hot chicks, dudes, either, or both.

Therefore, poor people are fat because they don't have gym memberships, not because they're poor. :popcorn: :rofl: That's low-cal hot air popcorn BTW.

This is all so silly. We make the choices we know about and care about. Maybe FAT people are fat because they habitually make the wrong choice or don't care about the outcome of their choices, or even know what the long term outcomes of their choices are.

Note I have been intentionally unPC and not referred to obesity by its clinical name, but that is the ONLY factual or logical error I have made.

Disclaimer: No stereotypes were adequately harmed or exploited enough in the making of this post.

:evilgrin:

[we can do it]

209. There Are Lots of Obese People WHO ARE NOT POOR Incase No One Noticed

[lukasahero]

238. Ssshhhhh

(We're not allowed to talk about that.)

[Missy Vixen]

263. Does that make all of you feel good?

Just checking.

I'd love to see some of the paragons of virtue in this thread IRL; it's the same people showing up in these threads over and over and over again.

You have no interest in seeing the "problem" solved. After all, you sure as hell would have to fix the shit in your own lives before you went after yet another fat person who dared to wander into your line of vision. (Or, God forbid, sat in the seat next to you on an airliner.)

It's unfortunate that there are people on a progressive website that have nothing else to do with their lives than go after the fat yet one more time.

Let me give you a hint: We know we're fat. It's not like you're cluing us in on something we don't already know. When people are so desperate to just fit in, they're willing to take a drug that causes uncontrollable and explosive diarrhea (Alli), have a surgery with a 1 in 200 mortality rate, or generally turn their lives upside down hunting for the holy grail of "thinness", we don't need you to stick your nose in the air one more time and tell us that all we need to do is eat some lentils and run around the block. If there was a reliable way to lose the weight and keep it off, there would be no fat people.

Of course, this will bring out the same names (again,) insisting that it's nothing more than diet and exercise. I have two statistics for you: 95% of those who lose over 30 pounds regain it within five years. That number goes up to 100 percent after that five year period. Here's another: A diet industry that grosses $33 billion a year in the USA. If you don't think there's a link there, you've lost your mind.

Again, don't let me disturb the party. After all, it's FUN to tell other people how deficient they are, isn't it?

:eyes:

[we can do it]

281. God Forbid We'd Want To Help Someone Eat Healthier

and the diet "industry" preys on people, they don't make money if they offer long term benefit. So, instead of getting in a snit, and saying there's no hope, try changing to good foods and move around every day, it does work but it takes time and commitment, not a miracle.

[Missy Vixen]

302. You missed my entire point. Congratulations.

Then again, I think you meant to miss it.

BTW, I eat "good foods" and "move around every day". I wish those on this thread who think the answers are just so easy should spend a week in my body.

[dustbunnie]

308. And because you have health problems that means no one else should get any info.

You sound like you're educated, but in your view, those who aren't shouldn't have any access to information, even if it's just a lousy 30 second tv PSA spot. That's not selfish or anything. Not anything like misery loves company. No, not at all.

Aren't you the person who posted on a past thread that you can't stop eating chocolate when you get your period? I'm pretty positive it was you because I remember giggling when further down you posted again about how you eat nothing and can't lose weight. If you're happy the way you are then good for you. If not, you should do something about it. Or not. Whatever. But to want to deny other people information that can help them affect their own lives is just plain, altogether shitty.

[Missy Vixen]

317. I seem to remember some fairly bigoted comments from you re: fat people

in more than one thread. If you want to go there, dustbunnie, I'm happy to do so. Somehow, I'm not surprised you picked up on that; I'm sure you've spent a lot of time poring over the posts of others so you can hit 'em in the face with whatever you deem objectionable.

Re: chocolate and my period? I was joking. I know that's a foreign concept to you. Then again, a couple of pieces of chocolate once a month is not going to kill anyone.

I frankly don't care about a "thirty-second PSA". What I do care about is the continuing insistence on slapping a Band-Aid on a much bigger problem, and the shaming and bullying that will happen as a result.

[dustbunnie]

336. My comments are not bigoted against obese people.

I work with many obese people and many of my family are obese so I understand the psychology behind many of the issues causing and sustaining obesity extremely well. What I absolutely can't stand are people who shit on every positive attempt to stem the enormous tsunami of ill health and overweight washing over society. You obviously do care about thirty second PSAs or you wouldn't be here slamming everyone left and right. You say there are always the same people who respond "with bigotry" to these threads, and I'll just counter that with the comment that it's always the same overweight people who respond with such aggression, negativity, and personal insults whenever anyone comes up with a plan or a potential solution. Pot, kettle, you know the rest.

[Tailormyst]

322. deleting my original response

You just are not worth the hassle and you have nothing to add to any discussion except nastiness and snark. Fortunately this is the internet and it's easy to make the virtual you just POOF! from my screen.

[lukasahero]

288. Wow - I made what, 2 comments on this thread

And get a 7 paragraph attack on my character? Grow the fuck up.

I believe the post I commented on was that not everyone who has a problem with obesity is poor and that it is a good thing to be able to help those who aren't poor make good choices while also helping those who are have better access to high quality food.

So you ream me for being "judgmental"? Did you read your own post? Because I think there's some judgment being made on your side as well. You don't know fuck all about me.

[Missy Vixen]

304. Ooooh. You told me.

The fat don't need your "help". We're perfectly able to make our own food choices.

Perhaps I should comb your medical records. I'm sure there's a few things you might need some "help" with as well.

>You don't know fuck all about me.<

All I need to know about you (and your buddy above thread) is that you don't think other adults have the capacity to adequately feed ourselves.

[we can do it]

315. From What You've Said Previously You Do Adequately Feed Yourself

no one suggested anything other than what can help people be healthier, no one really cares what you look like online.

[lukasahero]

335. You really need to keep your personal attacks to yourself

I have said nothing derogatory about you. But feel free to have at me. I understand you're angry.

You want to go through my medical records, my personal history? Here - I'll help you out - I have hypothyroidism, Hashimoto's disease, and adrenal issues. I quit smoking 3 years ago. I drink too much wine. My husband has heart disease and my father is currently dying of cancer. I know what it's like to gain weight when you're eating right and exercising. I also know that there are people out there who can't get their numbers under control because they have no access to adequate health care.

I ALSO know that there are people out there who don't have the same access to education that I have and have never heard about the dangers of the food they're eating. What is wrong with wanting to help those people understand that some of the food they're eating is killing them? This. Isn't. About. You. It's about them. The ones who don't have access to information. The ones who can't afford or find good quality food.

You call that "lecturing", I call it "educating". I thought the Democrats were champions of education? Not everyone has the same access to information. The vilification of education in America is killing us. It's pathetic when the Republicans push that agenda. It's evil when Democrats do.

[we can do it]

306. Oh I Forgot To Add,

If someone PAYS for a seat on a plane, they are entitled to the entire seat, so as long as you stay in your own space and out of mine, I see no problem.

and you have never seen me, nor my family so you can stick your poor me attitude.

[noamnety]

145. If I only had 99 cents for a day's food, I wouldn't spend it at taco bell

because I would end up with 20 cents of actual food value.

I'd have a potato (10 cents) a couple boiled eggs (20 cents), some cabbage (20-50 cents a pound), things like that. When that really was the extent of my budget, I didn't spend half of the little I had on fast food prep and packaging. That was a luxury I couldn't afford. For a while I had a stove but my only cooking pot was a single "disposable" 50 cent ez foil pan ... and later in life when I didn't have electricity, my "oven" was a coleman stove on a counter top intended for camping - and another ez foil pan.

[Missy Vixen]

112. I notice that your profile is disabled

I'm wondering where you're getting the food you claim is so cheap.

Your "big bag of apples" statement alone is BS, and we live in the apple capital of North America, Washington state. Apples here are over a dollar apiece, for instance.

I can't remember the last time I saw frozen chicken breasts for less than $2 a pound.

We are lucky enough to have a Costco membership, we shop carefully, and it's still pretty expensive to eat well.

Thanks for playing.

:eyes:

[snooper2]

125. I'm going to scan my receipt from Albertsons and make a thread someday soon

I believe the boneless skinless chicken breasts we got were $1.69lb when you bought the family pack of 8...

Tom Thumb had a huge meat sale this past weekend. I got a WHOLE top Sirlon ( 11.78lbs ) for $1.97 a pound. For less than 24 bucks after carving ended up with-

8 1" steaks..(from the piece of meat you first carve off where the grain runs counter to the rest of the meat)
9 1 1/2" steaks..(from 1/2 the rest of the butt)
one huge roast..(the other half of the butt)
and about a pound and a half of the cuts from trimming to be used for stew/fajitas/whatever wife decides...

so at least six or seven dinners worth of meals and some damn good steaks as well as leftovers for the two of us.

[Missy Vixen]

127. You live in Dallas

Housing prices in Dallas are appreciably cheaper than other areas of the country. You also have a freezer, a vehicle, and the time to get your purchases home from the store and break them up into meal-sized portions.

Those affected by higher prices live on either coast, do not have a reliable vehicle to go to more than one supermarket, or do not have the time or money for a bulk purchase, do they?

[snooper2]

139. The Alberstons down the street, it's about 6 min by foot..

I would say the vast majority of people have a freezer...I wouldn't know anything about prices on either Coast but-

As far as the time is concerned...you bring the food home and break out the portions immediately to either fridge or freeze. At least that's our routine. It took me an hour to cut that hunk of meat but it was my first time and I kept going back to my youtube video with my instructor :P (should have been a 15min job) I see people walking all the time from the Fiesta (down the street the other direction 20min by foot) home with groceries. I guess we are just lucky eh?

I do agree as noted above we need to teach basic food preparation more in schools. I'm in a very diverse community and it seems (mostly folks from India and Mexico) do a lot more cooking from scratch than my European counterparts :)

Generally speaking though you will ALWAYS save money cooking from scratch vs. buying prepared food. And once you start, over time you accumulate more spices, more kitchen utensils and it gets easier and easier.

[tyne]

166. Sorry...

but I live next door to you in Idaho (BTW, it takes me 10 seconds to drive across the bridge from Idaho into Washington). I'm sure some places sell apples for a dollar a piece...but why would you pay that or even go in such a store? Take a gander at your Albertsons flyer. Winco perhaps? How about Rosauers? I bought 2 five pound bags of Chelan apples two weeks ago for 2.50 a sack at their 13 hour produce sale. Nice try. Figure it out....or don't.

BTW2, I just got back from my local mid-size grocer. As I got out of my car....two little kids in their car seats drinking full-on Mountain Dew....10:30 in the morning. Chicken breasts...$1.29/lb. Bananas were 49 cents a pound and they weren't even on sale.

There are ways for people to eat healthier...if they want to. The first step is to stop listening to people who don't think it's possible. And completely ignore those who trash MO for wanting to address the issue.

And what's this..."it takes longer to prepare fresh food over processed"? What....5 minutes more because you might have reach into a drawer...pull out a knife and cut it up? Or maybe reach into a cupboard and pull out a pan?

It's no wonder this country is so obese.

[asdjrocky]

178. You don't even attempt to answer the economic questions many have posted here.

In your world you may be able to get in your car and go shopping, there are millions and millions of people that don't have the access to food that you do.

But you don't want to hear about that do you? Is everyone in your world comfortably middle class? Do you know any poor people? Have you ever?

Answer some of these questions, then we can talk.

[tyne]

219. Will do.

Access to food? Millions have more than I do...millions have less. What does that have to do with trashing MO for addressing obesity especially with our children?

Um yes. I know lots of poor people. The question above still applies.

[asdjrocky]

223. I'm not trashing anyone, least of all the First Lady.

You are trashing poor people for doing what they have to do to survive.

You have a nice day.

[Jamastiene]

285. Exactly n/t

[we can do it]

316. This Is An Honest Question, How Can Someone Be Both Obese and Going Hungry?

Your points are excellent, lots of areas only have convenience stores, overpriced crap sellers, the ones who take food stamps for booze, but charge $2 for a small loaf of white bread. Amazingly in my area, there are some fairly priced groceries (they do not have name brand foods, but they do have fresh food) in poor neighborhoods on the bus line. I notice in a lot of big cities, there really are few choices for groceries, I think this is something most people don't realize.

[we can do it]

228. Apparently These People Can Miraculously Transport Themselves To FatFood Joints

but not anywhere else, too. and did you know that it takes absolutely NO TIME in order for them to do so- so they must have time and space transporters, but no groceries or refrigerators.

[sui generis]

121. is it too late to suggest we all should lighten up

:hide:

I meant, figuratively. :blush: This is not life or death, it's a discussion.

[hlthe2b]

123. Actually, it IS life or death...

Our obesity epidemic is just THAT.

[leftstreet]

132. Excellent! A DU post bashing the serfs, not the owners!

Big UnRec!

[blondeatlast]

133. Sure, if you've got as car and a mega-buying power chain nearby.

Poor people generally have neither.

Walk a mile in their shoes--your opinion will carry more "weight" then.

[tyne]

230. I'm assuming, then,

that if we search, we'll find that the most obese areas of our country will be those who don't have access to mega-buying chains.

Err...maybe we won't. No....I know we won't.

Hello Memphis (and it doesn't include the outskirts or rural).

[Pithlet]

314. Oh Memphis? The city in the state that taxes groceries? That Memphis?

Yeah, that was interesting to find out when I moved here. That makes a difference, let me tell you.

[Xithras]

143. There's another problem as well. A lack of cooking ability.

This is a genuine and growing problem among many of the poorest in our society. We have now raised a couple generations of people who have had no access to healthy food, and so never learned to prepare it. Their "cooking" abilities are largely limited to "Boil water in a pot, pour in contents of box, and stir for 20 minutes". My wife is an elementary school teacher in an incredibly poor neighborhood, and one of the things her school started offering a few years ago were free "Healthy Eating & Cooking" classes for the parents (a well fed child is imperative to a good education). The teachers are volunteers from her school, the Salvation Army provides the kitchens at no charge, and the food is mostly donated. When they first started, they were blown away by the number of people who didn't even know how to use a measuring cup, or who had no idea what the word "simmer" meant. Many of these parents had never prepared a single vegetable for their kids in their lives. Not because they didn't like vegetables, but because they didn't understand the value in doing so, and wouldn't have known where to start if they had.

I do see your basic point, and it CAN be cheaper to eat healthy if you can buy in bulk, but that pre-assumes that the buyer has a place to cook, the ability to do so, and the knowledge to know what to buy and in what quantities. Most of our poorest citizens are lacking at least one of these, and many are lacking all three. Simply having the food available is not enough.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

146. You hit the nail on the head...

Microwaves and fast food have also contributed to peoples lack of cooking skills.
I suppose many schools no longer have home economics classes. Maybe Michelle
should focus on cooking basics. The FOOD channel could provide a program
designed for schools and show kids how much fun cooking can be. Also, early
exposure to cooking classes can translate latter into jobs in the Restaurant
business and other related industries.

[Xithras]

155. It's much better to target those classes at young parents.

Home Ec is great, and teaching kids to cook in a school environment is worthwhile, but it falls flat if the kid goes home at the end of the day to eat a dinner out of a box or that was bought at McDonalds.

The only way to really impact the kids lives is to change what they're eating at home, which means changing the buying and cooking habits of the parents. Doing that requires that we target those services at the parents.

One of the things the program at my wifes school has revealed is that the information generally trickles down to the kids anyway. They've taught about 50 parents to cook since starting a few years ago, and those parents are already passing that knowledge on. The kids wander into the kitchen while mom is cooking, want to help, and before you know it they're learning to measure ingredients as well. That's the way cooking has been taught throughout history, and re-establishing that model is the only way we can hope to fix the problems that we have recently created.

[Tailormyst]

159. Now THAT sounds like the best way to approach the problem.

You should email the first lady, maybe they cold fund that program in other poor communities. Really, you should contact her. What a fantastic program.

[tonysam]

147. Save ME "the eating healthy" bullshit

Michelle Obama NEEDS to focus on real issues, not on bigotry based on body size and promoted by quacks.

[hlthe2b]

154. Spreading that ignorance from thread to thread, eh?

:eyes:

[blondeatlast]

163. Your needle is stuck...

on every song.

[fishbulb703]

151. 6'2", a fit 175lb here. I eat McDonalds and Taco Bell because its cheap.

Just burn the calories you eat and it doesn't friggen matter. I bike everywhere. Sometimes I think the world would be a much better place if we couldn't drive cars.

edit: A 99 cent chicken burrito from taco bell is ~400 calories. Try getting that from veggies.

[Lautremont]

235. Sure, that stuff is cheap,

But then there's the fact that it tastes like ass.

[Scout]

237. what does ass taste like? i've never tried ass. n/t

[Lautremont]

249. Have you ever tried McDonald's?

[Scout]

251. how do you know that McDonald's tastes like ass unless you have first tasted ass? n/t

[Lautremont]

253. I'm a fairly experienced guy, so I've tasted plenty.

And thinking about it I realize the taste is actually far superior to Mickey D's. Next question?

[Scout]

255. no more questions, just curious about how one knows what ass tastes like. n/t

[dustbunnie]

271. Lots of people know what ass tastes like due to the way they run their sex lives.

I'm surprised this is a mystery to anyone.

[Scout]

275. well, surprise! i've never tasted ass! n/t

[dustbunnie]

280. It's common amongst the youth of today to fool around with the lil ole rosebud.

Perhaps that's why "tasting like ass" has become such a popular saying.

[Name removed]

293. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pharlo]

156. Anyone here look at the items in bins designated for Food Pantries?

When you drop in your cheap bags of nutritious brown rice, look at what some others are putting in those bins. The same processed foods many here are denigrating 'poor people' for eating are a mainstay in some of those bins. Think about that. People who need to rely on food pantries for food are not getting the fresh produce that many here are advocating. These people are getting processed foods with good shelf life. Granted, some donations are nutritious - bags of cheap brown rice that many here advocate. But, for the most part, the processed foods donated are of the high calorie processed foods type.

And, it doesn't get much cheaper than a food pantry.

Thankfully, I've never had to visit a food pantry, but I do look at the choices available when I drop in a container of oatmeal or whole wheat spaghetti. And, I'll bet anyone who visits a food pantry is thankful for every bit of food available - whether it meets the criterion of the food nazis here or not.

[we can do it]

165. Its True, But the Obese Have To Blame Someone (no not the few with medical issues)

I don't have time to exercise, cause I watch the teevee for 6 hours a day, and facebook takes up so much time...don't have time to cook, but do have time to sit in a fast food drive thru, have my lawn mowed, snow shoveled, etc.

[tyne]

167. And....

it takes too much effort to google "flat blasting" on Youtube and do routines from my computer.

Boo-friggin-hoo.

[Missy Vixen]

264. I have those medical issues

Shall I wear a sign so you know it's okay?

How about some kind of insignia on my sleeve?

Please. I must know. After all, I'm sure that'll erase every fucking bit of bigotry and prejudice directed towards the fat on a daily basis.

:eyes:

[jobwithout]

273. So let just paint you

The picture of health. My suspicion is that you will die much sooner than the overweight person because you carry so much bigotry and hatred in your heart.

[we can do it]

277. Who's the Judgemental One?

[lies and propaganda]

168. where do you live?

Can be found... Find them for me then darling, cause it doesnt exist in LA County.

[tyne]

184. Here is one...

http://albertsons.shoplocal.com/albertsons/default.aspx?action=entryflash&

darling

Oh and btw, you've got boneless skinless chicken breasts on sale for 1.99/lb so don't be scared.

[lukasahero]

240. That had to hurt.

:rofl:

[Missy Vixen]

266. You're really getting off on this, aren't you?

It must be really, really good for you.

I pity you.

[burning rain]

170. Overeating & abuse of alcohol & drugs are among the few forms of recreation...

accessible to many in the US, whether jobless or overworked and undercompensated, given our pathetic, inadequate social protections (which would absolutely preclude US membership of the European Union). Nothing, however, is more American than reading lectures or giving unsolicited advice to folks of modest means, while not doing a damn thing to improve their circumstances.

[asdjrocky]

173. Barva!

[EndersDame]

179. My favorite meal when I am counting change Black beans,rice,can tomatoes

pickled jalapenos , sometimes I substitute can corned for rice and when I ate dairy I would add some cheap ass cheese. Sometimes I would splurge on a avocado and add that and yes I made this after working a double shift at the restaurant

[KamaAina]

200. Farmers' markets should be included in any such program

more of them, and in areas where they're needed, close to transit and low-income neighborhoods.

[Jamastiene]

269. That could help farmers too.

If farmers could get some kind of mileage subsidy for traveling to those areas and selling some of their food there, it could help the poor in inner cities and farmers in rural areas at the same time. That's actually a good idea.

[SoCalDem]

221. The First Lady's "job" is not really policy-making

and look at all the grief that came along when Hillary tried to get into that sort of thing.

In the US, we expect the FL to adopt some peripheral social-type issues on which to concentrate her efforts.

Jackie Kennedy spiffed up the white house & looked great
Lady Bird had the beautification of America's highways
Roslynn Carter was an advocate for mental health, volunteerism and causes for the elderly
Nancy Reagan was the "Just Say NO" to drugs "inventor"..that worked out well :eyes:
Babs Bush? forgot what she did.. maybe supported the consumption of more oatmeal?
Laura told us to read more..too bad it didn't run off on george

What Michelle is doing, is just right.. she's focusing on things that everyone in the country can do something about, and it can be done without congressional/presidential policymaking.

[tonysam]

222. It isn't bullshit, OP, when MO should focus on real issues

not health food quackery. "Obesity" isn't a "disease" to be cured by "healthy" eating; the "obesity problem" is a reflection of BIGOTRY by people who need to feel superior over others because they don't fit the anorexic ideal.

It is people like YOU who are the problem because of your prejudice about body size and basically ignorance about what causes "obesity"; not the "obese," whatever the fuck that is.

[asdjrocky]

229. You know, she's not the President.

First Ladies have always had a project they paid attention to, and this is the what Michelle has chosen.

Why are you so angry?

[Beaverhausen]

245. Obesity IS a real issue

It's about health, not about looks.

and it's about the costs

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/02/09/fact.check.obesity/



Jesus Christ, people are nutty here today.

[asdjrocky]

311. Today???

:hi:

[Number23]

262. She has focused on military families and improving education for girls

in addition to this issue. And you do realize that this woman is the First Lady and not the damned President, don't you?

Christ, I get so sick of this fucking place sometimes. There is NOTHING people will not criticize EITHER Obama for on this site.

[Codeine]

294. You are so full of shit. nt

[lightningandsnow]

243. I knew a girl who was raw vegan who was FUCKING SKELETAL.

It was pretty inexpensive for her to eat a lot of raw vegetables, yes. But I don't think you can survive on fruit and vegetables alone. This girl basically insisted she was the healthiest thing alive, but she was very underweight...and every time I saw her, she was barely eating anything.

People seem to miss that eating disorders (especially anorexia/orthorexia/EDNOS) are NOT FUCKING HEALTHY either.

You can't live off pure vegetables, fruits, and the occasional lentils or rice.

I see a lot of unhealthy eating practices (aka disordered eating) being promoted among so-called progressives and it makes me sick. Anorexia is far more dangerous than having a few extra pounds.

[Codeine]

295. You absolutely can live off of pure vegetables and legumes.

People all over the world do it.

[Quantess]

320. One person's high fat & caloric intake = someone else's "normal" diet.

One person's healthy diet = someone else's "eating disorder".

Overall, the general problem with America's eating habits is not about eating too many vegetables and not enough meat, and hopefully we can all agree on that.

That "skeletal" vegan girl is getting a lot more nutrients from all those vegetables and legumes than someone else whose diet consists of mostly tater tots, hot dogs, and velveeta sandwiches.

[Politicub]

256. Plus you can cut your health care costs by eating healthier

I'm happy the First Lady has taken up this cause. It's extremely important.

[Cleita]

258. A lot of people, especially those who are living in cheap motel rooms or their cars,

don't really have the luxury of a kitchen with a refrigerator and stove. Even plunking down $10 a night at a campground is expensive for people living on SSI or less. Junk food from minimarts and other fast food places are sometimes all they have available and don't think the shelters serve turkey with all the trimmings year around. Sometimes it's just baloney sandwiches or whatever donations come in.

[southernyankeebelle]

260. I don't know where you shop but fresh veggies are expense and so are

fruits. Even wanting to buy fat free butter is almost 4.00 a tub.

[county worker]

265. One problem I see is that meat is expensive.

I don't eat meat so I don't buy it but even though fresh vegetables and fruits are less expensive it takes time to prepare and many people don't have all day to slave over a stove like grandma did.

We have more causes in the obesity problem then just the cost of food. Our lifestyles are a big part of it. Unless we can change our lifestyles we won't make much of a dent in the problem. And the poorer you are the harder it is to change lifestyles since you are struggling to just get by most of the time.

I know some will say this is bullshit but I think it is true.

[Jamastiene]

267. Sitting on the toilet wishing you hadn't eaten so many bananas and berries...

Priceless.

[Therellas]

284. gots to get a protein .

i think thats the biggest obstacle for most people.
and the confusion about how to do that ,
and not get sick.

[Quantess]

287. Recommended.

Crap food isn't food at all.

[Norwood]

291. It is too expensive for a lot of people to eat healthy

Must be nice not having to worry about money. Unfortunately a lot of us aren't that lucky, so don't lecture people about something you know nothing about.

[we can do it]

343. Pure BS

[slutticus]

297. Grass-fed beef: $6 per pound. Yikes.

[Whisp]

298. plus it ties in with preventative health care

what morons would diss Michelle for this? holy cripes

[Wardoc]

301. I agree 100%. People always make excuses rather than just owning up to their choices. It is not...

prohibitively expensive to eat in a healthy manner. People just want to quite literally have their cake and eat it too! Or rather, their McDonalds.

[pitohui]

305. bananas can be found for 37 cents a pound? really? in what time machine?

produce is not cheap and bananas are not 37 cents a pound and chicken breasts are not $2 a pound, lying about the high cost of fresh food is not helping your case, it just pisses people off

you are quoting prices from 1995 in 2010 and it's only believable if someone literally never steps foot in the supermarket

grocery prices have been skyhigh since katrina and considering that's over 4 yrs ago i have to assume they will never go down again -- four plus years is a hell of a long time to give up eating

good food costs BIG money and it will continue to cost big money going forward and pretending it doesn't cost big money is not the way to win friends and influence people

[Mendocino]

318. Some prices from two stores in my town

NW Ohio area-Kroger and a local chain called Five-Star


bananas .39#

seedless red grapes .99#

Extra large baking potatoes 4/1.00

Jumbo Cantaloupe $1.48

3 pound bag Jonathon apples $1.99

3 Romaine hearts $2.50

Green bell peppers .99#

8-Pack Dannon Yogurt $4.00

90 oz. Tropicana OJ $3.88

26 oz. jar spaghetti sauce $1.68


Total for all this comes to about $19.

[Quantess]

331. Prices are different here and there.

Here in the Portland area you CAN find these prices.
Don't all y'all be moving here because there is very high unemployment.

[Generator]

309. Not eating is darn cheap

Instead of focusing on poverty, and the masses on food stamps and depending on food banks, our great Mrs. is worried about the chubby kids.

[quinnox]

313. Wow, a lot of yuppies and the like are lecturing the poor slobs

that they should be eating healthy and its all their fault. Well, guess what, a lot of poor people don't have cars. And they are living in studio apartments with tiny refrigerators and no proper kitchens.

How the hell are they supposed to buy all that stuff that is heavy and bring it home with no transportation? And then how are they going to store it and prepare it without a proper kitchen?

You guys are living in la la land and haven't a clue while living in McMansions and driving BMW's. This thread has brought out the rich and the snobs in droves!

[haele]

325. If there were at least six people in my household, there would be no waste when I cook-

And I suspect that is an issue about home cooking amongst the lower income that many people forget - it might be cheaper to make a healthy meal for a family when you buy bulk. However, there's an issue with buying bulk or buying on sale, the same issue I saw growing up poor and my parents dealt with as children during WWII - food storage and food spoilage.
Our refrigerator at home has limited storage for fresh perishables and left-overs. And since there's only three of us, close to 10% of those fresh food bulk deals and home-cooked healthy leftovers too often go bad because we just won't eat them quickly enough.
I discussed this with my mom a while back, when complaining on the wastage.
Back in her childhood, dry goods, canned, and boxed food were bought bulk and stored in a closet if need be, but meats and vegetables/fruits have a shelf life. And leftovers also have a shelf life. If you had access to fresh produce back in the day, you needed to purchase it every two/three days, and fresh meat daily. Unless you had an ice-box or were lucky enough to have a refrigerator; which was still a very middle class appliance back in her day. If you had a refrigerator, you could buy meat for the family once a week.
She reminded me of the canning we did while we were growing up and which she had learned to do by the time she was eight. When they were lucky enough to get fresh produce or meat in bulk, that's how they handled what they weren't going to eat within the first day or two. And if you didn't have the time or resources to properly boil and sterilize your jars to blanch and brine, or couldn't afford the spices, sugar, and vinegars to pickle (which was the preferred methods to can- better tasting and longer lasting food), you used an institutional food level of salt to make sure the food stayed good. You did the same with meat; salt and dry the excess, boil the bones in salt for stock, and store. And hope you could avoid ptomaine poisoning from improperly sealed or contaminated cans.

And while discussing this with my mom, she told me this was an issue they had to deal with back in her youth. Back then, you sucked it up and ate the meat that was just starting smell a bit strongly, or the veggies that were starting to brown or green. You scrapped that bit of mold off and ate what was still good below.Depression/WWII era healthy cooking and eating. Back then, you sucked it up and ate the meat that was just starting smell a bit strongly, or the veggies that were starting to brown or green. You scrapped that bit of mold off and ate what was still good below.

Try telling that to the kidlet or any of her cadre. She even refuses to feed the dog leftovers that are starting to turn as a dinner supplement.
Me,I tell her "Hey, it hasn't started growing opposable thumbs yet, just scrape the fuzz off and enjoy. And be happy you have more than enough food in the pantry or refrigerator that you have the choice..."
Lazy, spoiled soft kids these days...

[Quantess]

330. Especially when they're fat.

[Sparkly]

321. I'm gonna chime in here in support of the OP and reasoned argument...

Instead of jumping into arguments about the carbs in apples, or calling people "limousine liberals," or citing specific anecdotes which may not represent the whole, let's look at some things we CAN agree on from the OP.

There are foods that are both healthier and cheaper than the fare of many who have limited funds.

That's TRUE, isn't it?

Perhaps there's something worth discussing here in terms of availability of those foods, access to them, or education about them, etc. -- but geez Louise, people. Can't anything be discussed here without freaking out anymore?

The main points of the OP are true. So why not look at any impediments involved with the idea of problem solving? How about some places where these things can work right now -- where for example, people could learn simple, quick ways to cook beans and rice or afford fresh produce, instead of buying hamburger helper or McDonalds or whatever else? Don't jump to the conclusion that it's impossible in 100% of cases.

The fact is that obesity is an issue *throughout* America. And it doesn't have to be a matter of economics!

So I agree with the OP that any criticisms of the First Lady's work in this area are misplaced. Yes, jobs are important -- and health is important, too. As the OP says in the last sentence, these can go hand in hand.

Are people here just looking for something to jump on and get worked up about?! For cryin' out loud!

[nonconformist]

333. +100

Very well said.

I think it's pretty disappointing to read these responses, because it just shows what an uphill battle even introducing the IDEA of healthy eating and the health risks of obesity are going to be. It seems to me that people just don't want to hear it. Why, I don't know.

[Name removed]

334. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ddeclue]

346. You clearly know nothing about how the poor have to shop.

There isn't a Publix on every corner in the poor part of town with fresh bananas for sale.

:eyes:

[DailyGrind51]

353. Broccolli has been 49cents/lb. in Chicago lately!