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I Think You Need A Time-Out, Little Mister!

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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 10:10 AM
Original message
I Think You Need A Time-Out, Little Mister!
The so-called populist "Tea Party" movement began barely a month into Obama's presidency but the popular anger at government encroachments and economic policy failures began nearly a decade prior.

The anger is not at Obama's policies as a poll just released by WaPo shows 2/3 of the nation wants comprehensive HCR.

The wars drag on draining out treasure and more importantly the blood of our youths and hapless innocents.

The economy is far from recovering. Heroic efforts notwithstanding the president is applying band-aids to a system that is sick at its core. You can't solve the problem of the private banks because private banks ARE the problem.

Ditto healthcare.

Ditto energy production.

Ditto an education system being infiltrated by so-called "free-marketeers" who want to use subversive wedges like "merit pay" to force out teachers who dare teach that we're killing our planet, man was not created 6,000 years ago and there are better birth control methods than holding a dime between your knees.

The president's voice is being drowned-out by a media more interested in snow reports and 600 malcontents with more time and money than common sense who like to be led around by a yapping "palm"eranian.

In open "combat" the president proves he is the intellectual and policy superior to the do-nothing, got-nothing-to-say opponents...but still he sinks in the polls. The disconnect between reality and opinion being oceanic in scale.

Nevertheless, the discontent is boiling over. It is inexplicable that a seat held by a democrat for nearly half a century can be taken away by a wanna-be part-time Field Marshall, fatherly flesh-peddler who also parades around naked while claiming to represent the narrowly-defined-family values bloc. And the electoral bloodletting has no sign of abating.

In short, the people are still mad at the Bush regime but their anger is has no viable outlet so they take their frustrations on incumbents. It has become so perverse that the blue dogs are scared to vote for what 66% of the people claim to want.

An emotional frenzy is the wrong time to be making decisions that

Demagogues use such moments to rise to power, often to their eventual destruction but not until they drag everyone else around them to that same end.

If I were more conspiratorially monded I might believe the neocons created the disaster knowing it wouldn't reach its apex until the progressives had assumed power then allow the popular backlash as an excuse to discredit progressives so they could come riding back in "to our rescue" 2 years later. "Now don't be so foolish to listen to those silly progressives ever again...ever--never--ever!" they cackle wagging a fatherly finger at us as we fearfully clutch their well-pressed pant leg.

I'm not conspiratorially minded...

...but it ain't easy!

With such emotions running at a fevered pitch maybe November is too soon to be holding elections. Perhaps we should give serious thought to delaying them until emotions settle.

Now before the flaming avalanche descends upon poor little ol' mild me allow me to point out: 1) this isn't a presidential election, it's not like anyone can claim we're trying to install Obama for life and 2) the neocons have no complaint because one of their heroes tried it and they never took him to task for it, i.e. Nixon.

Have at.
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. Two words:
Political

Suicide.
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 10:29 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. At what?
Elections to be held as soon as the economy has been allowed to recover, the wars ended and the HCR that 2/3 of Americans want is enacted?

THAT would be suicide?
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Bicoastal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 10:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. If we could have elections in the middle of the Civil friggin' War...
...we can certainly have them now. The anti-Obama agitprop would REALLY start flying, and I for one wouldn't blame them.

It's not going to happen.
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Then how do we...
...counter the fact that the agit-prop has driven the president's poll numbers so low a democrat controlled congress is afraid to pass their own president's agenda but the polls are based on perceptions that the president "dithers" (a word that dripped from Cheney's own lipless mouth)?

Do you think that spin cycle CAN be countered?

What if it isn't cuntered? Do we blandly shrug and accept the results?

BTW - I'm not trying to be snarky with you. I know you're sincere and I know you're good hearted but which is wrong: my premise or my conclusion?

If my premise is correct then the conclusion is too dire to contemplate.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. The democrats in congress behaved like assholes for a year
and are shocked that people are mad at them. Granted their are bigger assholes standing by to take their place, however when you act like assholes, people don't like you.

The President is leader of the party, it is part of the job he ran for, to tell people to knock it off, so far, he's been telling the people complaining about the assholish behavior to knock it off.

If I'm mean and rude to my girlfriend, I can't be surprised when she leaves me. Whether or not she leaves me for someone better is neither here nor there.
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I dare say a misapplied analogy.
I would say it is the progressive politicians who are suffering from being abused.

We have the cure for what has been ailing this country for 8 years but haven't been given an honest chance to govern.

We can create the jobs...they can't

We can end the wars...they are agitating for more wars

We can bring universal healthcare...they want to line their pockets on people's suffering

We can rein in the banks...they want the banks to reign

We can end the destruction of our only planet...they trump up bogus scandals to mindlessly lay waste to everything they see



We have nothing to fear electorally...IF we are ever given a chance to actually govern rather than playing defense to corporate shills.

I just want that chance.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. The progressives will be re-elected for the most part
Edited on Wed Feb-10-10 10:59 AM by AllentownJake
The failure to do things will be visited on the blue dogs, who will be tied with the proposed policy, but none of the benefits of said policy to take home with them in swing districts.

Progressives are generally in safer districts. That is why the GOP that is around right now are the conservative of the conservatives.

Yes it sucks, but the results are rather predictable.

Until "moderates" which aren't really moderate, just bought, learn that they sink or swim with the party and obstruction does them no good, the electoral losses will be staggering.
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Are you expecting those moderates to be replaced by progressives?
I see no reason to believe they will be.

So then what?

The Tea Partiers will "storm the gates" and the next time Obama or anybody else dares mention HCR, AGW, education reform they will be laughed off the stage with jeers of "How'd that work for you last time?"

Sorry, but setting the narrative plays a big role in political discourse and we have lost the narrative.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. No they will be replaced by other "moderates"
Edited on Wed Feb-10-10 11:05 AM by AllentownJake
I.E. Corporate Welfare Queens.

It is expensive to run campaigns in areas that are competitive and where parties save all their ammo for general election races and try to avoid primaries.
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. "Welfare Queens?"
How Reaganesque of you.

Your so-called "other moderates" will all have R's behind their names...as in: what they'll be giving to the corpoarions and MIC is...

R freedom

R blood

R labor

R money

R hope

R health

R educations
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 11:45 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Corporate welfare queens has been progressive terminology
Edited on Wed Feb-10-10 11:46 AM by AllentownJake
as long as I've posted on this board. Evan Bayh's successor if he has one this year will be as big of a piggy in selling his office to corporations as Evan, probably mostly to the same people. He will have more insane ideas on tax cuts and military spending than Evan, after that, they will not be distinguishable.
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I feel so much better now.
How silly of me to have every feared for the well-being of our democracy.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
22. The democracy is broke
Edited on Wed Feb-10-10 12:07 PM by AllentownJake
until there is public financing and politicians are prohibited from certain occupations for 5 years after leaving office or you have term limits, either or.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 10:36 AM
Response to Original message
4. You've got to be fucking kidding me
Edited on Wed Feb-10-10 10:37 AM by AllentownJake
Let us violate the constitution because our leaders are too corrupt and inept to do anything.

The same justification could have been used in 2006 because emotions were too high over Iraq.
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Why shouldn't the neocons hand off to dems in 2006
Do you really think the banking meltdown came as a surprise to them?

Their system, their rules, their money.

It's like they charged us out of our own money to hold our money for us then used the fees to buy themselves a car, then when the car gets stuck on the train tracks they sold us back the car with our own money and when the train hit the car they used our share of the insurance pool for the repair fees.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yes it came as a surpise to them
because they were following their ideology and bad things happened. If they weren't surprised, there would have been no bailout

:rofl:
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Remind me again what the bailouts are...
...OUR money going to prop up bankers after said bankers have already made boatloads of our money.

I'm sure they're feeling the sting.

I'm sure the neocons were just so-o-o-o surprised the only thing they could think of in the midst of their collective panic was to give themselves a few hundred billion dollars.
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Trust me they were surprised
You can choose to believe this or not, but these people actually believe the ideology of free markets, till they get their ass kicked by credit contractions, which they didn't believe existed anymore.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
5. of course we must have elections
and of course people want change.
the hcr bill has support, and it has opposition..
asitshould
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. But how?
It's a cycle between agit-prop scaring away moderates then using their fear to blames progressives for dithering.

How do you scream above the machine?
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #8
19. you don't
this time around we lose. next time around we win. it really doesn't matter who wins and who loses as the corporation always win, and the workers always lose.

We just get to decide if we are beat by a good cop or a bad cop..
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Nuclear Unicorn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. A year ago we had thought we won.
The difference a year makes.

We didn't win we were just being suckered into being the fall guys for the other guys' collapse.

If we don't prove we're the ones who are the true defenders than we won't get another shot. Look at the SCOTUS ruling on corporate campaign contributions.

Do you think you can out-campaign and out-lobby THAT...ever?
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AllentownJake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-10-10 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #21
23. Rahm Emmanuel, Tim Geithner, Larry Summers, Arne Duncan
Good Cop/Bad Cop indeed.
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