4-Year Old Daughter of "Ax Men" Star killed by Family Dog(Rottweiler)

[RamboLiberal]

Astoria, OR, United States (CNS) - The 4-year-old daughter of Jesse Browning from The History Channel's "Ax Men" has been mauled to death by the family Rottweiler. Ashlynn Anderson's body was discovered by her mother outside the lawn on Sunday.

The girl was airlifted to the Oregon Health and Science University Hospital in Portland after Browning, whose father Jay owns the Browning Logging company featured on the show, called 911. She was pronounced dead on arrival.

Clatsop County Sheriff Tom Bergin told eonline.com, "Apparently, the dog just snapped. We have detectives working on investigating (what set the dog off)? We are going to give the family a day or two to grieve before we interview them."

He also said that the attack came just four months after another Rottweiler was removed from the residence after it attacked an adult family member. That dog was euthanized.

The family's two other Rottweilers have been quarantined and are awaiting their fate at a shelter.

"Ax Men" is a docu-series that follows the work of several loggers in the forests of Oregon, Washington, and Montana. Its third season premiered in January.


Read more: http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7017974329?4-Year-Old%20Daughter%20Of%20#ixzz0h2JacisS

[TexasObserver]

1. "But our family dog would never do that!:"

Say thousands of dog owners nationwide when hearing this tale.

And most of them will be right, but some won't.

[olegramps]

166. Do you believe that the parents should be held responsible?

[wtmusic]

2. Yes, the dog "snapped". It was under a lot of pressure at work. Or...

it's a ferocious breed that should never be left alone with small children.

Care to step up to the plate, Jesse? :eyes:

[dustbunnie]

3. Very sad. Poor little baby didn't ask to grow up in a pack of dogs the family couldn't handle.

Which apparently it couldn't. Probably no one in the family was capable of displaying alpha authority and this is the result.

[wtmusic]

5. And now the dog will probably be "destroyed" for doing something

it was bred to do.

[proteus_lives]

57. It killed a child.

It should be destroyed.

[wtmusic]

60. As punishment?

That is absurd. :silly:

[proteus_lives]

61. Not really.

A companion animal attacked and killed a human being. It should be destroyed to prevent the chance of that happening again.

Simple.

[wtmusic]

62. That will do absolutely nothing to prevent the chance of it happening again.

The fault lies squarely with the parents' irresponsibility, and could happen again tomorrow if the couple gets their other dogs back.

[joeybee12]

64. Agreed...they are apparently raising those dogs to be vicious

and are not careful enough with keeping their children safe from them...ignorant, ignorant people. This is tragic, but once the grieving is over, charge them with child endangerment.

[swilton]

72. +1`

[sendero]

171. Not as punishment..

... as prophylactic.

[FarCenter]

51. One dog is a pet -- two or more dogs are a pack

Behaviour changes considerably, especially if they are kenneled outside together.

[Highway61]

111. Bingo!

You hit the nail on the head.

[ProfessorGAC]

112. IMO, Dogs Belong INSIDE!

Then they are truly family members. If they live in an outside kennel and not in the house with the people, they are never part of the family. Instincts take over, and we have tragedies like this.

Instincts have been greatly been reduced by years of socialization with humans. I think, the closer the dog is to the family, the less likely these things are to happen.

I'm not an expert. Just a long time pet "haver" and i know what i've seen for the last 45 years.
GAC

[Lydia Leftcoast]

122. I have to wonder about people who buy dogs and then just tie them up

outside and don't socialize them.

What do they even have a dog for?

If you keep a dog inside with the family, it comes to see the family as its "pack" and becomes protective rather than aggressive.

[ProfessorGAC]

128. Exactly What I Think Too, Lydia.

Geez, our beasties are as much a part of the family as my wife and i. Well, except for the part about having to earn a living! (Well, my wife's retired too, but she sure did her part for a quarter century of our marriage.)

We just love our four legged kids.
GAC

[Mad_Dem_X]

136. I completely agree.

It's a tragedy this little girl was killed, but clearly the dogs were not raised properly.

[csziggy]

161. I can't deal with dogs inside - allergies and such

When I was actively running the farm we had our outside dogs - since 80% of our awake time was spent outside with them, they were happy and got plenty of attention and had their jobs helping us around the farm. By the time our last dog had to be put to sleep, I was unable to spend time being as active and we made the decision to not adopt another dog - it would not be fair to the dog to have only a few minutes a day with us.

The worst behaved dogs I see these days spend all day alone, either in the house or the yard of their owners who work in town and then only spend an hour or two a week with their pets. With that little time for them, the people should just donate time to the animal shelter or a rescue group and not have their own neglected animals at home.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

168. That was my first thought about this tragedy.

[sendero]

172. Very good point..

... people forget that dogs are pack animals. Their behavior is very much influenced by a pack dynamic.

[Coventina]

177. Yes and no. One dog with a human family is a pack

from the dog's perspective. Adding more dogs increases the pack, and brings in more canine dynamics to it.

What tends to happen is that with one dog, the dog (usually) understands that s/he is the bottom of the hierarchy. With multiple dogs, they need to sort it out amongst themselves. Once done, things are usually peaceful, but there will be periodic squabbles, usually not serious.

This is why children are usually the victims of dog attacks. The dog(s) sees them as a rival for position in the pack, so the dog(s) may try to challenge the child for position. This can happen with just one dog in the family, however. The adults are challenged less frequently, as they are usually so clearly in the "alpha" positions.

This is why it is a good idea to let children feed the dog(s). That sends the message to the dog that "Hey! This little being controls my food! S/he is clearly superior to me! And if I want to get fed, I better treat him/her with respect!"

[JNelson6563]

4. What a horrible fate for this poor baby!

Sad.

[berni_mccoy]

6. Big dogs like rotties take EFFORT to train

And when neglected, yes, they can be dangerous. We've had two rotties and they are extremely loyal dogs, but the do require a serious committment to owning them. One of them was a trained search and rescue dog.

[wtmusic]

9. Can they even be trained to be safe around small children?

Seems that's asking for trouble.

[Shell Beau]

11. I think it depends on the individual dog.

Any big dog, or small dog for that matter, can be a danger.

[Brickbat]

12. IMO, no dog is "safe" around small children.

[Shell Beau]

13. I totally disagree.

I can't imagine not growing up with dogs around me. The same goes for my baby girl. She rides our doggie like he is her horse. And he loves it. BTW, he is a 115 lb mutt.

[Brickbat]

28. I've got dogs around my kids too.

And a kid that rode our 100-pound mutt. But I never, ever let my guard down around them when they were together.

[Shell Beau]

50. Well I do agree that small children should always be

supervised around any animal.

[liberal_at_heart]

14. Dogs are relatives of wolves and are very pack oriented

When my husband brought his guide dog who is a English lab home the dog started exhibiting rough play bevior around our 9 yr old. We quickly figured out that the dog was trying to establish dominance over the only being in the house who was smaller than he was. We immediately asserted our dominance and let him know that although we love him he is the dog and he is the one at the bottom of the pack and must submit to all of us including the smaller child.

[bamacrat]

20. You must have never had a good dog then.

When I was a child we had two pit mixes and I used to ride them and pull on them, wrestle with them, tackle them and they never did anything but love me. They would attack any dog who came near me but would never hurt or even growl at me.

This is a horrible thing that happened and some breeds have a tendency to be more aggressive but to condemn all dogs as unsafe is wrong. If a dog is raised right and isn't a fighting dog they are great around children. Some dogs probably should not be left around children unsupervised, but not all.

[Brickbat]

29. Nope. I've had, and have now, great dogs.

I'm not saying all dogs are unsafe. I'm saying no dog is 100 percent safe. That's how I look at my dogs, and all dogs, and I think it's important for kids to understand it, too.

[Arkansas Granny]

37. I have also had great dogs and the one I have now is as sweet natured as any

I have ever owned and she absolutely loves children. She has been well socialized and has been around a lot of kids over the last 11 years and has never shown any aggression to humans. She doesn't even bark at strangers who come in our yard. She thinks all people are wonderful because they have those marvelous petting devices at the end of their arms.

However, I still feel uneasy when children run up to her to pet her when we are out on walks. I don't think that she poses any risk to them, but I would much rather introduce her to them in a more controlled fashion because I cannot absolutely guarantee how she will react if she is startled, frightened or feels threatened. I also worry that the kids will assume that any dog can be approached like that.

[Brickbat]

73. That's what I'm talking about.

Any dog can have a trigger that it's never had before, and can react in a way we don't expect. It happens, particularly as they age.

Hee, "petting devices at the end of their arms." Dogs are hilarious -- you know that's how they think.

[Maru Kitteh]

31. A responsible adult does not gamble with a child's life.

Almost nobody believes that their particular pet could ever do a thing like this - until they do. A responsible adult does not take that chance.

[DrDan]

36. ABSOLUTELY Correct!

[cutlassmama]

56. Agreed

[Cetacea]

105. Akitas.

Woe the person who tries to harm the children of the household..

[Brickbat]

109. Um, except when the Akita does it itself.

:eyes:

[Cetacea]

178. Children roll their eyes like that.

Do you have any experience with Akitas?

[Barack_America]

24. Yes. I personally know of one who is trustworthy with an infant.

That being said, the owner/mother is VERY responsible, has trained the dog well doesn't leave the two alone together.

[xultar]

18. I know a lady who is in her 60's. She trains Rotties. They LOVE her. They can't take their eyes

off her.

She can train them so thoroughly it is frightening.

[DeschutesRiver]

80. I took my little 45 pound dog to the vet yesterday

she was sick with diarrhea and vomiting, and on top of it has a badly injured rear leg that we need to repair.

I am standing at the counter when I catch sight of some woman being pulled in through the front door with a straining, lunging, out of control extremely large Rottweiler. I immediately leave the counter to put some distance between us, because I can't have my dog slipping on the vinyl floor (I'd even waited until the last minute before my appointment before bringing her in, because I see a lot of uncontrolled dogs at the vet, and she's been hurt that way before - by a much smaller spaniel that was freaking out and jumped right into her full speed).

The dog keeps coming, with this woman acting like "well, maybe other people can control their dogs, but mine is a special case who can't be trained". She was smiling like she thought it was kind of cte. By now we are backed up to a wall= and the damn thing keeps coming. She gets him to take a left just a few feet from us, but bam, he turns back and lunges toward my dog (he wasn't being aggressive, just not controlled). I stepped slightly over my dog (who'd been standing there without moving) and barked out a fat "NO", and thankfully the dog stopped in its tracks. The owner looks at me like "what?" and I told my dog was injured, and that I'd do what it takes to make sure her dog didn't further injure my dog, and said it was up to her to control her dog around mine, or I'd do it for her. She stayed very clear of us until we got called into the exam room.

If that was my dog, I simply wouldn't subject sick/injured pets to it until I got it under control. Period. I'd tell the vet staff I had an issue I hadn't resolved and ask to bring it through the back door. I don't know what the hell is wrong with people, but I have drawn a line in the sand. I'll retreat as a first defense, but if I have to, I will stop any dog that threatens my dog's safety, and since I'm a retired lawyer, I will freaking mop the floor up with the owner afterwards until that owner at least gets the message. And I am like that about very few things in life.

Sorry for the rant, but I am seeing a ton of dogs of all breeds/sizes that are freaking menaces. My poor dog behaves well, and gets hurt as a result? Not on my watch any more.

[DrDan]

7. this is so sad . . . children of this age are so trusting - trusting their parents to take care

of them.

And too often, the parents are just clearly irresponsible with this task. Their needs and wants come before the responsibility of raising a child.

how sad.

[Maru Kitteh]

58. and far too often the children pay dearly for the parents negligence and vanity

Poor baby must have been so terrified. I'm sure her battered little body will haunt their nightmares forever. As, in this case, it should.

[liberal_at_heart]

8. Most people don't research what breed would be best suited for their family

Some breeds are great for families with children. Some breeds get very anxious around the sudden movements and high pitched voices of small children. That's so sad. My thoughts and prayers go out to the family.

[csziggy]

157. Maybe some breeds are better than others for children but training is the key

Without proper training even the mildest manner breeds can be uncontrollable. With proper training even the most aggressive or nervous breeds can be wonderful around children I agree with the poster that said there are more dogs out there that have not been properly socialized or trained. The owners need to be trained first, then they can train their dogs. And far too many people were not raised around animals, then try to adopt them when they have their own households. It is just not a good situation.

[Shell Beau]

10. What a shame. RIP little baby girl. How tragic.

The guilt that I imagine will come with this will be so hard to get over as well.

[TwilightGardener]

15. How awful. That little girl probably loved her dog, too. What a betrayal.

[Barack_America]

25. I'm going to take a guess with two vicious dogs in the same household....

...that somebody was not "loving" them.

It's very tragic that this little girl had to pay the price for that.

[Tim01 2.0]

16. Dang, I didn't think rotties would do this.

Pit bulls, sure. But not rotties.

[Shell Beau]

17. Any dog can do this and has done this.

Labs, goldens, etc. All dogs need proper training.

[pnwmom]

38. Any large dog. It would be a lot harder for a toy dog. nt

[Shell Beau]

48. Yes, but smaller dogs like toy dogs can be much more

aggressive, at least in my experiences. Cocker Spaniels aren't really toy dogs, but they are smaller dogs, and they are one of the more dangerous dogs to have around kids.

[XemaSab]

77. I got attacked by a chihuahua when I was 2

Yeah, it was a chihuahua, but it attacked a 2 year old. Not cool.

[Shell Beau]

81. And they have claws and teeth too. Even if it is a small dog,

they can still do some damage. Especially to a small child.

[csziggy]

158. The only serious dog bite I ever got was from the family Chihuahua

Our family pet but aggressive little monster. It was because of his aggression our mail stopped being delivered to our porch. He attacked a pair of Dobermans - twice - and held his own against the two larger dogs long enough for us to hear the noise and run to 'rescue' him. He punched a hole right through my thumbnail - that nail has never grown right since.

[pnwmom]

100. Sure. But their bites are extremely unlikely to kill before someone can intervene. n/t

[xultar]

19. ANY dog can do this. A golden retriever has killed. You are very shortsided.

[Tim01 2.0]

21. My sides are not short. They are the correct length.

And although all dogs are capable of aggression, all dogs are NOT created equal. It is silly to lump my Border Collie in with my Akitas.

[Codeine]

23. Mr. Pedantic says

"short-sighted."

[xultar]

27. ROFL. You can tell I'm edumacated.

[Codeine]

30. Edumacations are overrated anyway. ;-) nt

[Edweird]

63. Even Collies..... You know, 'Lassie'.

[Barack_America]

22. Never leave kids and dogs alone, regardless of breed.

[surrealAmerican]

26. Four big dogs. I wonder if these animals were trained ...

... to "protect" the property.

Poor kid.

[Tailormyst]

43. Nothing scarier then a pack of untrained big dogs.

[liberal_at_heart]

32. Has anybody just sat and watched their dog chew on a toy?

We have a 90 lb English lab guide dog. He is well trained and fits in great with our family although we all had to make adjustments when he first came including the dog. But sometimes I watch him chew on a toy and I will kind of joke around with him and say "oh, aren't you so ferocious?" I say that because he is so sweet, but the truth is I can see the power this dog has when he chews on a toy. He could be ferocious if her were so inclined. When you consider their biology and the fact they are related to wolves it is quite impressive.

[XemaSab]

78. After watching my dogs seriously fight with each other

any one of them could seriously hurt or kill an adult human, if they were so inclined.

The smallest dog, at 45 lbs., bit the stove repairman a few weeks ago. The next dog, at 65 lbs., is stocky and very fierce when provoked. The biggest guy is 111 lbs., and he could just knock you right down.

All three of them together? You'd be hamburger.

[flvegan]

33. Ugh. NEVER leave a child unattended with ANY dog.

I also find it suspicious that of 4 Rots, 2 have somehow been aggressive with family. Something is amiss here.

That poor girl and her parents, and those poor dogs.

[aikoaiko]

44. This is very true. Even with toddlers, small dogs can kill or maim.

[Maru Kitteh]

34. Why is this family not being interviewed immediately? If this were a toddler in the projects

Attacked by a pit-bull the parents would likely be wearing orange jumpsuits right now, especially if police had been called to the house for vicious dogs before.





Since daddy owns a logging company, authorities find it proper to give them a couple of days to grieve before bothering them with interviews.


It is child abuse to leave small children unattended in the presence of any dog larger than a small sack of flour.

[theHandpuppet]

59. +100

You nailed it.

[OnyxCollie]

35. ALL dogs MAY bite.

That said, owners who don't know what they're doing greatly affect that truism.

[pnwmom]

40. But not all dogs are big enough and strong enough to do a lot of damage. n/t

[OnyxCollie]

53. True, but bad dog behavior is bad dog behavior.

A snarling, snapping Chihuahua is exhibiting the same bad behavior that would get a Rott/pitbull/etc. put down. And a Cocker Spaniel is just as likely to bite as a Rott.

Poor dog training should not be excused because it's cute.



Teeth will hurt you.

[pnwmom]

101. I'm not excusing poor human or dog behavior. I'm simply pointing out that

larger badly behaved dogs pose much more of a risk of death than the small ones. I would be shocked if you could find one example of a toy poodle, for example, killing any human.

[iris27]

152. Is a Pom small enough for you?

http://articles.latimes.com/2000/oct/09/local/me-34015

[Tailormyst]

42. Absolutely

I am of the firm point of view that all owners of large breed dogs should be required to take classes and the dogs MUST pass training courses. This goes double for those who want a pack of large breed dogs.

[DeschutesRiver]

39. Another Ax man "star", Mike Pihl, was arrested after flipping his jeep and injuring small kids

last year. Local reports were that he was driving fast and drunk on his very long driveway, and flipped it when he went into a ditch. One kid was trapped under the jeep, and I haven't followed how it turned out, either with his arrest or the condition of the kids. Here is an article:

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/08/vernonia_man_arrested_after_ca.html

I mention this because I have a place in that area, I've used loggers there for decades, and this show has at least one guy featured that I rejected to do my projects after he bid, due to major safety and honesty concerns. Actually, when we watch the show, we just cringe - I wouldn't hire several of those guys if they were in my area because they are way too sloppy and an accident waiting to happen. I don't know how it appears to people who don't know the business like I do, ie whether they see the show the way I do.

They don't mention a lot of things on the show - for example one of the reasons Aqua Logging is down in the South is that all those logs you saw them struggle to pull up when they were in Oregon, were the property of the State of Oregon in those waterways. Those logs were seized and they were fined huge amounts for the theft of logs.

http://www.seattlepi.com/tv/403666_axmen14.html

I know from personal knowledge that some of these guys are not even remotely portrayed on the show as they really are. Took me years to finally find a guy who is knowledge, careful and honest about logging - I'll use him until he doesn't log anymore. I've had a handful like that over the years were pretty ethical and careful guys - those are the guys they should have starring on AxMan, but they don't run around almost decapitating themselves, screaming, throwing fits, etc, so without all the anger and safety violations, it probably wouldn't be as interesting to watch for most.

The stories I have would make your hair curl - logging is extremely dangerous without adding drunk, crazy, mean, cheating etc to the mix.

[Maru Kitteh]

46. The ads for the show have convinced me it's nothing worth watching. Peacocks in flannel.

Not my thing.

[Prof Lester]

55. Yes sir.. but that's the whole point of TV..

it's cashing in on cheap "reality TV" thrills.. All those type of shows have stupid mean jerks yelling at each other and carrying on like fools. They have that motorcycle show, for example. I've been around motorcycle folks all my like. Anybody who tried shit like that yelling and screaming and such would be gone, instantly. Much as you say about the loggers. It's the same with all their so-called "reality" shows.. they're only "real" sor the loose-cannon nut jobs of the media business. I'm sure they think they are the normal ones..

[Mopar151]

68. You can see it in the last season of "Monster Gararge"

Jesse muttering "It may be great TV, but it's no way to work..." (Model A Sedan, built on the East Coast), or the show where National Guard guys built a twin engine Jeep puller with zero drama, and Jesse prasing them on their ability to work together.
I don't think the Patenaudes (the Maine guys) are long for the reality show world.

[DeschutesRiver]

75. That's right - I got about halfway through the new show on NASCAR drivers

and it had the same "type" from within that group. Shouting, screaming, fistfights, the wives threatening each other big time, blah blah. I'll never turn the channel on to that one again. Think it was called Madhouse.

We are also down the road from the Little People, Big World family. Every time I see LPBW, I can't believe the sun is shining. I've had a place there for over 20 years (and lived generally on the wet side for >40 years), and it is a rain pit, almost nonstop, because it is in the shadows of the coast range. It is why I hang out in central oregon, to find sunshine.

I am now cruising through other shows, like Pawn Stars, American Picker, etc, mostly because I like the way they trade in used items and know the history behind them.

[Mopar151]

99. I was quite dissapointed in "Madhouse"

I grew up around Modifieds - my Dad part-timed as an offical at our local track, starting when they were still called "Jalopys". I've seen all sides of the sport, and some pretty sad scenes - but the producers of Madhouse had to go a long way to find a show as ugly as Bowman-Gray. "Bugs Stevens" was about as good a shoe as ever strapped into a Modified, and his remarks on the current state of drivers like the Myers boys and Junior Miller bear repeating "It does'nt take much of a driver to run into somebody else!".
I find myself disliking the whole Myers family - loud, nasty, can't even get along with themselves. Junior is a product of a track unsuited for Modifieds, and officials that tolerate dirty driving. I'd love to see Chris Fleming and the Browns on a good Modified track - Though Chris needs some good help in the gararge.

[DeschutesRiver]

110. You must have had a blast growing up around that!

Not the few mean drivers they found for the show, but around modifieds in general. We were really looking forward to watching it, wanted to learn more about it (don't know much about them, but dh loves anything mechanical, and I love anything that goes fast:). But all the show focuses on is what they think is exciting to watch, ie a Jerry Springer show. Yes, the whole Myers family is a bad representative of the bigger group. They really grated on my nerves.

I spent many years showing horses, same thing - yes, there were a few bad apples, who were truly rotten to the core (cheating, short fused, cruel to the horses, etc). But those few didn't represent the whole horse showing family, as it was actually a lot of fun overall. If they made a show about my sport, they'd probably pick those rotten, mean, cheating competititors to represent all of us.

Our good guy logger buddies are fit to be tied by watching their loser logger friends being showcased on AxMan. Embarassed, really, and aghast at what they see on the show re safety concerns. And it has really gone to these guys heads - hey, they must be really important because they have their own TV show. Bad fat egos being made even fatter.

[Mopar151]

117. Still at it, too!

Though current economics have me flagging instead of driving. Our local track evolved badly,(promoter started drinking, 2nd generation promoter drunk, loud, and stupid) and I discovered hillclimbing - the land of the misfit toys! www.hillclimb.org is our website.
Bunch of our gang has You Tube vids up - here's links to a couple.
Butch's Blazer is a stock car underneath, all flea market parts: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq3hqtfIUEA

Starting line action. Marcel is an art photographer who hangs out with us sometimes - crazy as a soup sandwich, but really has an eye : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VU0bGqym2v4

Alex Grabau's Evolution 8, RHD, big turbo: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KWi42LXHUq8

[DeschutesRiver]

125. There were so many different rigs there!

Still watching (have dialup!) but that is making me and dh smile this morning:) Thanks so much for those links. I had no idea there was such a thing - is hill climbing new? Dh used to have a motocross bike that he competed with when he was a young man, not on tracks, but up hills. Said he still remembers climbing up Big Bertha near Tillamook here in Oregon.

We stuck with horses, snowmobiles and our grizzly atvs for the last decade. I decided that despite being old farts (50s), we needed a new hobby. So we just bought a 92 jeep on Monday - a YJ that seems to mechanically sound, tiny bit of rust in a couple of places (just body) and ready for him to wrench on and add to as he wishes. We have a ton of steep hills, ravines, flats, etc right here on the ranch, and we plan to take it out every day to see what it can do. Yesterday's ride included a fairly steep hill in the snow, and it was an adventure getting to the top. Took two shots at it to figure out how our jeep likes to climb. Plus the tires are rather larger than ideal for that sort of thing.

We'd always wanted a Jeep but this is our first - just enough of a project that we can learn, but reliable enough that we haven't quit smiling. We even went for a couple of "old lady slow" rides in it with our elderly dog, who hasn't quit smiling either:)

ETA: I quit horse showing during the rah rah, we are rich with credit days because it was bringing in the wrong kind of attitude with some exhibitors. It was becoming more about the money you could borrow and try to outspend the other guy with than just competing for the fun of it. Most of those newcomers couldn't even ride a horse well - they just wanted to say they "owned a show horse and competed", despite needing to be duct taped to a saddle. They'd buy themselves a smooth talking trainer too, who played every trick in the book on them while siphoning their wallet, and told them they were top equestrians - and these fools would believe it. It was getting hard to watch or be around. There were always these types in the biz, but just a few - and then suddenly, their numbers increased dramatically.

I am hoping in a way that our bad economy will flush those people out and it will get back to the old days when most of us just gathered with some drinks, some bbq, whatever horse flesh we owned, and had a fun afternoon of trying to best each other.

[Mopar151]

132. One of the oldest Motorsports - changed little since 1905

There are several regional series like us - Pennsylvania, Colorado, and the Northwest that we know of - and some notable stand-alone events. Mt. Washington ran 1990-1999, has had a couple other heydays (like the 1905 event). Pikes Peak, Colorado (with a relationship to CHCA like ours with Mt.Washington), Virginia City, NV, http://www.crowmountainhillclimb.org/, Rumman, Jordan
http://forums.evolutionm.net/motor-sports/451999-rumman-hillclimb-2009-jordan-image-intensive.html - the Sirroco/Audi/Buick hybrid was originally built for our series.
There is a lot of crossover to rallying, and some to roadracing & oval track.
England has several short hillclimbs (driveways to castles), and there some Europaen events we've found on YouTube, as well as Australia and NZ.
We, and most series like us - have little accomidation for spectators - but are always looking for voulunteers for flagging/communications. Communal lunch and beer after are the usual perks.

[DeschutesRiver]

141. I just found a site for the NW Hillclimb Association!

and where they plan to hold some climbs in our state. Told dh, and we plan to see if we can go trade some help with flagging, etc for the experience of seeing what it is all about - thanks!

And also for the history lesson - I had no idea this had been going on for so long. And it was nice to talk to another person that likes fast rigs - take care, and may you have many happy years of hillclimbing ahead!

[RamboLiberal]

65. I know very little about logging

But every time I watched the show I cringe as well at the work place violations. But then a death or maiming in one of these crews would probably up the ratings for History Channel.

[DeschutesRiver]

76. Glad to see someone else is noticing it, even from outside the business

I cringe every time I see their animated figures getting crushed, tossed, killed, etc, as though that is what the audience is waiting to see happen to the real life people. Which they probably are, given how their promos for the show go.

If I checked on a thinning project and saw anything happening like some of that stuff on the show, I'd shut them down and find a new logging outfit. We don't log a lot, just as necessary to manage the stand, so it isn't a daily thing for us (every so many years, and only as needed).

[Hassin Bin Sober]

160. The elder Browning shot up his cell phone on Sunday's episode.

He received some bad news regarding his equipment being damaged so he threw his phone on the ground, pulled his 9mm out of the truck and emptied it in the phone on the ground.

Smart.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

123. I used to live in Oregon, too, including in a small town,

and I must say that there's a lot of mean and dumb going around in the logging subculture.

[csziggy]

159. I've only seen the ads for the show, but those guys are a danger to anyone close

From that little bit I've seen. No way I would let that crew on to my property to cut brush, much less trees!

[Tailormyst]

41. Having a pack of rotties might not be the best thing for a family.

Unless you are really well trained and the dogs are REALLY well trained.

[NoodleyAppendage]

45. Unfortunate consequence of men feeling like they need big dogs to symbolize their manhood.

Rottweiler and pitbull breeds have become, unfortunately, a "big man" type of pet for those men who are uncomfortable with their manhood or potency. They become status symbols of "he-man" prowess. God forbid that a smaller, more docile breed be used by these psychologically flawed persons, they would be called "sissies" or "gay" for having such an un-manly type of pet.

J

[Spoonman]

54. Please inform my sister of this,

she has a "rottie", and I'm afraid she might not be "gay". (her life partner might be upset too)
As the little brother, I have often proclaimed her to be a "psychologically flawed person", but that's what little brothers do.
:sarcasm:

[Taitertots]

47. Criminal Negligence?

How does a four year old end up unattended with a large dog outside?

I can't see how he could avoid going to jail. Oh yeah, he is famous and has money. I better not hold my breath.

[Maru Kitteh]

49. +1

Absolutely correct.

[AngryAmish]

67. Well said, my friend

[mod mom]

52. Now that my children are grown, I just passed off my copy of "Childproofing your Dog"

to a pregnant couple. It was recommended from our dog's Canine Behaviorist several years after our dog spent 2 years getting help for dominance aggression, and severe separation anxiety. We were lucky enough to live near a large university teaching hospital and found a Vet who worked with us through Hadrian's issues. By the time I had children, Hadrian was totally trustworthy to be around children. Unfortunately this dog was not. I feel for the family.

[Coventina]

66. This is so far down-thread no one will ever see it, but here goes:

NO DOG IS "SAFE" TO BE LEFT ALONE WITH A SMALL CHILD!

Toy breeds have been known to kill small children. Don't believe me? Google it!

I would never leave any child under the age of about 6 (depends somewhat on the dog/child combo) alone with any dog.

Why? It's not because dogs are "dangerous" per se. It's because small children don't speak "dog". At any moment, without intending to do so, a small child could do something that breaks the dog's rules. This does not make the dog "bad", they don't have the same moral code that we do.

The biggest problem, is that children who don't speak dog are raised by parents who also don't speak dog, and therefore don't know how to manage the dog/child relationship. So when Fido snaps at Junior for crawling by his food dish, the adults are stunned and perplexed as to why the dog "snapped". They never knew Fido had food aggression, because no situation ever arose to trigger it before. The list of other possible "surprises" is endless.

In this particular situation, the parents are CLEARLY at fault. A four year old was left alone with a Rottie? And apparently the attack went on out of sight/hearing of any adult?

I'm not bagging on Rotties, but they are powerful dogs and tend to be dominant. NOT a good combo with unsupervised small children.

Please, dog owners, educate yourself about dogs. Go through professional dog training, no matter what breed you have. The more you understand about your dog, the better life will be for everyone, human and canine.

[Shell Beau]

69. Very true. All of it.

[Coventina]

70. Thanks for reading! And the compliment!

:hi:

I've been proven wrong that my post wouldn't get read!

:D

[Arkansas Granny]

71. Those are very common sense ideas. Dogs and small children should

not be left alone unsupervised.

[Maru Kitteh]

74. I read it! Thanks for posting it, and I hope many others read it as well.

I believe this little girl's death amounts to child neglect/abuse.

I'm sick of seeing certain groups of people (privileged, white, on TV, athlete, etc.) exempted from prosecution in cases like this.

Given the fact that they'd had problems with aggressive behavior from the dogs, the child's death was not just preventable, it was foreseeable and the parents have no excuse. They should be charged.

[TexasObserver]

85. Agreed. People who leave small children alone with dogs are a danger.

And I don't care how gentle and harmless they think their Spot to be. Such owners do not comprehend that their dog is not the same "animal" when they're not in the room as when they are. A dog alone with a small child will often think it is in charge of the child, not the opposite. They don't see your child. They see a smaller mammal under their control.

[LWolf]

167. +1

[RamboLiberal]

79. Apparently the child and dog were separated by a fence

but the dog jumped the fence.

The family's Rottweiler, Cornelia, was in the back yard but somehow jumped the fence and attacked Ashlynn in the front yard.

The girl's mother heard Ashlynn scream, and came out to find the dog over her daughter, according to Clatsop County Sheriff Tom Bergin. Ashlynn was flown to a Portland hospital but was pronounced dead on arrival.

http://www.nwcn.com/news/oregon/Dog-expert-reacts-to-fatal-mauling-of-Oregon-4-year-old-85968492.html

Jay Browning said Ashlynn was excited about a garden she and Jesse were planting and had just gone outside into the front yard for a couple of minutes when the attack happened.

"She had a little toy rake. She must have been raking little mole hills," he said. "D'ette went out to check on her and she was just laying there bleeding. The female rottweiler was standing there."

Jay Browning said D'ette and Jesse liked big dogs.They had gotten rid of an aggressive male rottweiler "a long time ago" and retained a male Labrador retriever and a male and female rottweiler.

He said the dogs were kept in a fenced backyard and it's unclear how one of them had gotten into the front yard.

http://www.dailyastorian.info/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=395&ArticleID=68282

[Shell Beau]

82. Just so tragic. I know the parents must feel a huge amount of guilt for this.

A determined dog can do a lot of things. I have seen one of my labs climb a 6 ft. fence, and he could hurdle a chain link fence like it was nothing.

[olegramps]

169. Why would people have "pets" that are keep in a fenced yard.

Seems to me that they must have been considered a danger. If that is the case then they should have provided fencing that could not be breached. I wonder if they can be prosecuted?

[flvegan]

83. Dogs were "kept in a fenced back yard"

Look, don't get a bunch of dogs if you aren't going to socialize them.

http://www.dailyastorian.info/main.asp?SectionID=2&SubSectionID=395&ArticleID=68282

[RamboLiberal]

86. Your link requires a subscriber user login n/t

[flvegan]

89. Sorry.

It didn't for me after finding via Google news. No idea why. It's too late to edit, I think.

[earth mom]

84. People need to get a god damn clue - pitbulls and rotts are vicious attack dogs.

How many more of these stories will it take for people to get it?! :argh:

And to those who will want to reply to my post and argue with me-forgetaboutit because I'm not changing my mind.

[LeftyMom]

87. Well gee, that's informed and open-minded.

:eyes:

[flvegan]

90. You first. n/t

[Fire1]

92. Me either. n/t

[uppityperson]

103. Don't worry. No one here will ever expect to change your mind about anything

[Wizard777]

104. They can be. My pit bulls are. But they have been professionally trained.

I absolutely trust them with my life. I trust them around children. Once parents get to know them better. They trust them around their children too. My pits are getting old and ready to retire as guard dogs. I now have two tiger head mastiffs being trained. Now that's a big dog. They will go after a tiger like most dogs go after an alley cat.

[Puglover]

176. I'll pass on trying to change your mind.

Just don't want to go here today.

[MadMaddie]

88. May she RIP!

My dogs are great with kids but I never leave them alone with kids.

The owners, the parents are responsible for this especially with the history we have been provided.

The dogs cannot be adopted out and they cannot go back to the home, more than likely they will be destroyed. Sad all the way around.

[Fire1]

91. All dogs are not family dogs. You want a family dog, get a

Lab! But noooooooo. Macho macho man.

[Shell Beau]

95. I know a woman whose vagina and face were ripped apart by

a family Lab. She lived, but it was rough. You can't judge an individual dog by their breed.

[Fire1]

113. Riiiiiiiiight.

:eyes:

[Shell Beau]

139. Ok, not sure why I'd lie about that. It most certainly did happen.

My friend's mom was walking in her neighborhood, and the neighbor's lab got loose and attacked her. She got 16 stitches in her head and 30-something in her vagina area. I don't care if you don't believe it. It did happen.

[ChickMagic]

179. Shell Beau doesn't have a rep for lying on this board

I've seen her (?) posts for a long, long time and haven't seen
anything that would be considered a lie. Why do you think she's
lying?

[Wizard777]

106. Labs will bite. So will Poodles. I have never heard of a breed that will not bite.

I've found smaller breeds to be bite prone that larger breeds. I don't care what kind of dog you get. Someone in the house will get bit at least once.

[Coventina]

107. Well that's not true. Most of the dogs in my experience have never

bitten anyone.

I'm defining a bite as the action when the dog is saying "I'm angry and I am trying to hurt you" not playing or trying to grab something.

[Wizard777]

127. I define bite as breaking skin.

[Coventina]

174. Under your definition most of the dogs I've known and know now

have never bitten anyone.

In fact, come to think of it, I've only known one dog that has. Although, I'll grant you that I know of a few others that definitely tried, but were thwarted in their attempt.

But, the vast majority I've known never bit anyone. Dogs generally give several warning signs before a bite, as it's the ultimate weapon in dog society and is only used as a last resort. I say generally, because vicious dogs will attack without warning. Those are the dogs that usually should be put down.

[Fire1]

114. Any dog will bite if provoked. But it takes aLOT to provoke a

Lab.

[Wizard777]

129. Not really. I've seen them bite kids for messing with their food.

I also had a friend that had a chocolate lab. I had to go over his house one day and get his dog for him. It had trapped him in his bedroom and would not let him out. The dog gave me no problem. It really liked me and I was the only one of his friend the dog never bit. I'm charmed like that with animals. But labs will bite. Especially when they get older.

[Fire1]

135. "Messing with food" is a no-no for most dogs but I've never

had a problem with the Labs I've owned in ANY way. Labs are service dogs for a reason and I tend to believe that these "labs" people have had problems with are not pure labs at all and/or have been "in-bred."

[Shell Beau]

140. I have had Labs my whole life. They are one of my favorite breeds.

So are Golden Retrievers, but all of them have attacked someone at some point. Maybe not as much as other breeds, but it is silly and naive to think Labs don't ever do that, or if they do, that they must be mutts. It just isn't true, and I have seen the results of it. Of course you think I am lying about my friend's mom getting attacked by a full blooded Lab.

[Fire1]

143. Indeed I do because it's not in their nature. They're not

aggressive. You can't even train a Lab to attack! That's like saying anything with teeth will bite and that's bullshit.

[Shell Beau]

146. That isn't bullshit.

You really need to do a little more research about Labs. They may not be prone to attack, but they have and they can and some will. That is true for every single kind of dog out there.

[Fire1]

147. No thanks. I'm good. n/t

[Wizard777]

165. No it was a pure bred lab. But I know where you're coming from.

I have two pit bulls and never had the first problem with them. When I hear about pit bull attacks on the news. It seems foreign to me. It not the dog I know from my experiences.

[Coventina]

175. If a dog has food aggression, "messing with their food" is EXTREME provocation!

From the dog's point of view, their very survival is at stake!

This is why dog owners need to test their dogs for food aggression very thoroughly before allowing children anywhere near a dog's dish. Just standing beside the dish is enough in some cases.

This might seem unreasonable to us, but it is OUR responsibility to see the world through the dog's eyes, if we are going to have them in our homes.

[Name removed]

144. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gaspee]

93. I have small dogs

and I do not let them ever be alone with small children and only if the child is calm do I let her per the dogs. My dogs are family pets who are also champion show dogs and are very well trained... but they are still dogs (@20 lbs) with big teeth. In the rare case that I breed a litter (5 litters in 15 years) I absolutely do not place puppies into households with children under 12 - unless the parents are dog people (ie-
Any dog can severely injure or kill a child. It's so tragic, especially in that neither one is usually to blame. Kids are kids and dogs are dogs and without trained parents who can read the body language and emotions of both and predict behavior of both - they are just not safe to be unsupervised together.

That said, some breeds are better with children than others. My Shiba Inu? Not good at all - they tend to be dominant and the high pitched voices of children mimics the sounds of injured animals and they will attack as a pack. My now passed on Irish Wolfhound (who was 6 times the size of one Shiba) was very good around children. Rottweilers, Pits, any of the Mastiff descended breeds, the Nordic breeds are much more likely to be unsafe around children than other breeds. My own very much loved Shiba Inu are included in the not trustworthy with children category.

[tabasco]

94. Thanks to the "History" Channel for putting these fuckheads on my teevee.

When did the logging industry buy up all the channels?

[Shell Beau]

96. Well you have the ice truckers, the roughnecks, etc.

It is just about really hard jobs. Certainly has nothing to do with the story at hand.

[tabasco]

97. Really hard jobs, LOL.

I've worked harder jobs my entire life.

It must suck to have such a boring life to have to watch other people working at "really hard jobs" for entertainment.

[Shell Beau]

98. I don't watch them, and with a 17 month old baby, my life

is anything but boring. I would love boring. But a lot of people like to watch those shows. Those are really hard jobs. The roughnecks have a very physically demanding job that is very dangerous. The ice truckers and the fishermen have really dangerous jobs as well. Not sure why, but people seem to like to watch that. What jobs have you had? Just curious.

[ProfessorGAC]

118. But Shell, It's NOT History

If they want to put it on TLC, (which i don't watch anyway), fine. But, this is the History channel, and thing that haven't happened yet can't be history.
GAC

[Shell Beau]

138. I assumed it did come on TLC or Discovery.

Weird that they put it on the History Channel.

[ProfessorGAC]

116. Well Said!

How is that history? If it actually hasn't happened yet, doesn't that make it impossible to be history?
GAC

[Lydia Leftcoast]

124. Hearing about shows like Ax Men and Ice Road Truckers only justifies my decision

to cancel all but basic-basic cable three years ago.

All those "reality" shows sound like incredibly boring accounts of basically boring people doing the same boring things over and over.

They are proof that a large segment of the public will watch ANYTHING that's moving on the screen. Celebrity poker? Come on!

[Strelnikov_]

126. Cheap to produce shows that fill 'programming hole'

50% of the audience compared to quality programming, at 10% of the cost, is a 'win' in the 'market' system.

The WalMartisation of broadcast media.

[ProfessorGAC]

130. It's Always Been That Way, Hasn't It?

My Mother The Car! The original Tonight Show! The Red Skelton Show! The Sullivan Show!

Those were all crap and cheap to produce. (Well, at least Ed had The Beatles.)
GAC

[Lydia Leftcoast]

134. Yes, but except for My Mother the Car, the variety shows featured

talented people doing what they were good at. A good singer, dancer, comedian, or magician is always worth watching.

[csziggy]

162. Yeah, but I bet they lose in the long run

Well written shows with good casts can last forever in syndication - heck, mediocre shows with average casts can last a long time in syndication. But reality shows die off quickly. So the production companies may be able to crank this crap out fast and cheap now, but they will not get the long term income a little more work and investment would give them.

It really sucks.

[Thothmes]

150. basically boring people doing the same boring things over

and over. You mean regular working people trying to make a living.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

151. Hey, my work isn't exciting either, but

I wouldn't expect anyone to make a TV series about how I type and consult glossaries all day.

There's no working class consciousness in dumbing down the TV audience.

[Jennicut]

102. I had a rescued lab for a short while. I had to let him go when he charged my 5 year old daughter

last year. I would NEVER trust any big dog around very young children unsupervised. Luckily, my husband was able to block the dog from biting my daughter. It was an abused dog so it did have some issues and we were hoping to help the dog overcome some fear issues but it just didn't work out.

[Fire1]

115. Rescued dogs should only be around experienced ADULTS

because the behavior is unpredictable. As a "first," I'd always get a puppy with an even temperment from a licensed breeder. Labs are the best with small children. They're service dogs for a reason.

[Jennicut]

119. I totally agree. We never had any experience with a rescued animal and thought

we were doing the right thing...my husband's aunt was fostering rescued black labs. Some have gone on to be great pets, too. We tried with Jake. We gave him to a trainer in Mass (we live in CT). The trainer adopted him out and Jake ended up biting the new owner after the owner tried to stop him from going after another dog. Jake is still alive which makes us happy. I miss him still, he really grew attached to me but I could barely walk him down the street he was so afraid and aggressive as well toward other dogs and had a huge fear of men.

[Fire1]

120. Yeah, that's what makes me so angry. Some man turned a

beautiful pet into an aggressive animal (if you know what I mean.) I have one dog I rescued as a pup from a shelter and he's lived a good long life. He's a little thing but has always been ferocious! LOL!! I have another dog I rescued from the streets at a little less than a year old and she turned out to be beautiful but she, too, has issues, I believe from abuse. She's coming around, though. Very playful and loves to be petted. Our favorite of the crew, of course, is the Lab. He's had the run of the house and getting older now, but he's still our baby.

As you can tell, we're animal lovers. I've always had a dog as far back as I can remember.

[Jennicut]

131. Good for you for being dedicated to those animals who need help.

Having young children around and no experience made us not the greatest match for rescued dogs but we did adopt a rescued cat in Nov last year and we adore her. She is in my pic below.

[Fire1]

133. Awww! What a sweetie! And thank you for rescuing a kitty! n/t

[Stinky The Clown]

108. There are many more inherently bad dog owners than there are bad dogs

[Fire1]

121. Absolutely, Stinky. THAT'S the problem! n/t

[mistertrickster]

137. It's never a good idea to have more than one dog. My father-in-law a

retired veterinarian says "if you have two dogs, you have half a dog."

The more dogs, the more pack-like they get.

[flvegan]

145. Glad your vet isn't mine.

I'd fear such misunderstanding when taking care of my dogs.

[LeftyMom]

154. Yeah, but you don't know ANYTHING about dogs.

Christ, it's not like you run a fucking rescue or anything.

Is your overgrown baby boy feeling better? I forgot to ask.

[TwilightGardener]

153. One dog is people. Two dogs is dogs.

Can't remember where I heard that, but it's true. The more dogs, the more dog-like behavior.

[RamboLiberal]

142. When Dogs Bite: Researcher Hopes Software Teaches Kids to Respect Animals

Dog trainers hear it all the time from shaken parents whose children have been bit by the family pet: the dog just snapped.

A group of researchers who say that's almost never the case are now testing software aimed at teaching young children how to behave around animals in hopes of cutting down on the number of dog bites and maulings.

"This is not a small problem," said David Schwebel, professor and vice chairman of the psychology department at the University of Alabama at Birmingham.

-----

Schwebel's team -- working in conjunction with a professional colleague in Ontario -- first tests the children at the university and records their interaction with with a live dog and during role-play with a family and a dog living in a dollhouse.

Families are sent home with either the Blue Dog software -- designed by a Belgian veterinarian and already on the market in some places -- or a separate computer program on fire safety as a control, and they're invited back to the university after a few weeks to repeat the initial tests.



http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/AmazingAnimals/preventing-dog-bites-software-aimed-teaching-kids-respect/story?id=9989861

[mistertrickster]

155. True enough--but the situation described above doesn't have anything to do with the girl's behavior.

She was in the front yard, working the ground with a toy rake.

[liquid diamond]

148. This is why dogs should be banned.

:sarcasm:

[UndertheOcean]

149. BAN ALL BIG BREEDS !

[jtuck004]

156. Ban all cars

I do understand the knee jerk reaction, but banning the dogs won't do it.

We only lose about 15-25 people a year to dogs. We lose more people to choking on balloons, falls, poison, firearms, etc. Lightening kills more people - but it doesn't get as much press.

http://www.the-eggman.com/writings/death_stats.html

Since we kill 40,000+ people with cars every year should we ban cars and say goodbye to our economy?

Whatever happened to personal responsibility? I NEVER leave kids where they can be alone around most any dog, even big nice ones. I NEVER secure a dog in a yard where they can get free, or, more importantly, where someone can get in without me knowing.

Take a look at who this happened to - on the last Ax Men show I watched, this moron threw his cell phone on the ground in the work area, pull out a semiauto (9mm?) and empty the clip into the ground at the phone. Actually hit it once. No concern about ricochet, people were actually within range - such as the camera person. It appears he is just as responsible with his dogs.

Her death is a tragedy, but to look at it as anything more than a very infrequent and tragic occurrence which, like most of these, has a proximate cause more related to owner irresponsibility than the dog is to make a mistake that will cost other people their lives.

[Kaleva]

163. Rottweilers should be treated like guns and kept away from children

They make very good guard dogs but are not family pets.

[Corey_Baker08]

164. My Condolences Go Out To The Family, What a Tragic Ending To A Life Cut Way To Short!

As far as the dog is concerned, I believe that all dogs, if raised and treated properly are good dogs. I dont want to speculate how the dog was raised but I love dogs and hate euthanization except in cases such as this when a dog actually takes the life of an innocent child.

RIP

[TheCowsCameHome]

170. I feel sad for the little girl. What horrible way to die.

The rest of the family ignored a warning four months earlier. I guess living dangerously runs in the family. And the little girl paid the price this time.

I won't watch that TV series ever again.

[sendero]

173. Normally...

.. I would be slow to judge the owners. But in this case, having already had an incident, you'd think they would wise up.

Well. they've paid the ultimate price now so there's really nothing else that can be done.

[Coventina]

180. I'm not disagreeing with your sentiment, but I have to say that the little girl

is the one who paid the ultimate price.

:-(

I have a sense of grim satisfaction that if the parents have any feelings at all, they will live in their own self-made hell for the rest of their lives.

PS: IMHO, they should not be allowed to own any animals again, ever.