Newly diagnosed with Stage I Breast cancer, can company really stop me from attending medical appt?

[HipChick]

Anybody familiar with labor laws? I was just diagnosed with Stage I Breast Cancer, and while I do not want to have to disclose my medical condition to my company, my manager is trying to prevent me from attending an medical appointment to discuss my initial treatment. I feel uncomfortable disclosing to him, I am already working in excess of 40hrs per week, yet he is trying to deny me taking any time off. I have about 3 weeks of vacation hours not used, and I even went to the lengths of just requesting 1 day of vacation time to avoid him drilling me about taking the day off sick. Any ideas? I have lost enough sleep over this situation as it is, without him adding this to my plate. Should I be forced to tell him?

[Junkdrawer]

1. Take the day off and report in as sick.

If he fires you for being sick, I'm guessing you have a case.

[Junkdrawer]

2. On edit: Never mind - Hong Kong...

[elehhhhna]

7. you are guessing. possibly dangerous move.

[Junkdrawer]

11. Point taken, but missing a cancer appointment is a dangerous move too. n/t

[HipChick]

15. Cancer does not seem to miss its appointment though...prognosis is good

if I start treatment early..

[elehhhhna]

17. She cannot miss it. But having consulted in HR for 20 years,

I must say that how she handles this with him will impact her outcome -- jobwise, which can translate to insurance and ultimately her treatment etc.

[bemildred]

3. You are going to be rich. nt

[quinnox]

4. maybe tell him you have a medical issue but don't say what it is

I don't think you should have to tell him what your medical problem is, but maybe just say you have to see a doctor and need to take the day off to do it.

If he presses you on what it is, say you can't discuss it, that it is a private matter.

[Occulus]

59. FMLA. FMLA. FMLA.

She needs to get the paperwork immediately. Before the appointment.

Her HR department will be able to provide it. She also needs to determine if she is covered under the law and if her employer is subject to the law. If there are green lights across the board, her boss can be a jerk about it, but other than that, his hands are effectively tied.

Even terminating her for "cause" after she files the paperwork will be a bad idea, because she will be able to show that the termination occurred after she filed for FMLA, which would not look good at all in front of an administrative law judge.

[liberal_at_heart]

74. Yes, FMLA saved our family

My husband was sick for three weeks with a very bad case of the flu. After missing a week of work the company mandates that employees apply for short term disability. We do have short term disability insurance through the company but surprise, surprise, surprise they denied our claim. It was only after we filed for FMLA that we received backpay for those three weeks.

[HipChick]

62. I had already quit..and working my notice

if that tells you how much of a first class jerk he is...

[elehhhhna]

5. how many employees (including offsite but US bassed) and/or does the co. use a

PEO (outsourced HE admin and payroll)? What's his title/level and what is yours?

[HipChick]

8. Not outsourced admin/payroll...he is several levels up the food chain

[elehhhhna]

9. approx # of US employees & his level...pm me if you like,

[HipChick]

13. easily 60,000+ in US

more globally...

[elehhhhna]

18. GREAT! Read this:

http://www.employer-employee.com/fmla.html

[Junkdrawer]

19. I was about to say "Family and Medical Leave Act"

http://www.salary.com/advice/layouthtmls/advl_display_Cat8_Ser201_Par303.html

[ourbluenation]

23. FMLA doesn't apply for a one day medical issue. Aren't we talking about getting one day off???

If she will need to go our for long term medical care then FMLA protects her job and she would go out on disibility I would think.

[elehhhhna]

30. it may be appropriate to study up on fmla as hse will have further

treatment AND you can be fired for taking a doy off, but once you tell someone (HR, for example) that you have a FMLA covereed problem, you are protected up the yingyang.

[ourbluenation]

37. what do you mean FMLA covered problem???

FMLA is for you to take time off to care for yourself or someone in your immediate family for medical issues, new baby, etc. Are some medical issues not covered by FMLA? News to me.

[elehhhhna]

42. read up at link below. only certain conditions are "covered " under fmla.

they just recognized migraine, for example, in the last few years.

[Occulus]

57. Yes, some are, some aren't.

Breast cancer is absolutely covered. Cluster headaches aren't (I know, because I tried to file for that and got denied).

Just having "the sniffles" for six months isn't covered, either. Neither are allergies. Chronic back pain may or may not be, depending on the severity. Almost all major surgeries are, if the employee has accrued at least 1250 hours in the previous calendar year.

That's how it was when I dealt with it, anyway; the law may have changed in the three or fours years since I filed.

[Junkdrawer]

34. I agree, but I was looking ahead to "being fired for taking a sick day"....

and seeing what recourse she had (although I seriously doubt that even a jerk boss would fire someone for taking a sick day when they have plenty built up.)

[ourbluenation]

39. YOu can't get fired for taking a sick day, FMLA or otherwise, if you have earned sick time on the

books.

[Junkdrawer]

43. So we're back to my Post #1 - Take the day off and report in as sick...

Seems like the problem was asking for a sick day in advance.

[Occulus]

49. She needs to request the FMLA paperwork FIRST *IF* her employer is covered by FMLA..

Only because her boss is being a jerk about it.

Mentioning that she has been diagnosed with an FMLA-covered condition will keep her job safe. Her boss won't like it one bit, but that's just tough.

If she continues to be harassed about it, she needs to speak with her HR department. They will bring her boss up short.

FMLA is Federal law (even if it lacks the appropriate teeth), and no employer wants to be found in violation of Federal law.

[elehhhhna]

50. you CAN get fired for taking a day off for an appointment when your boss

doesn't want you to. The days of workers rights are WAAAAY over.

[elehhhhna]

47. your instincts are spot on, but they don't officially fire you for the sick day ..

they make up some shit that will stick. Or not. Employment-at-will, don'tchaknow.

If the boss is a despot, you don't piss him off.

[Occulus]

51. If she asks for FMLA paperwork prior to the appointment, she's safe.

She can be forcibly reinstated by an administrative law judge if it comes to that.

She needs the paperwork in hand NOW, though. It's an affirmative defense against termination (or has been for postal employees I've worked with in the past).

[elehhhhna]

54. my point exactly. see psa below.

[Occulus]

56. The major caveat is whether the employer is covered by the law.

There are stipulations on number of employees and one or two other things that she needs to be aware of, but FMLA is one huge trump card, especially for cancer.

[elehhhhna]

58. yep. the employee must also meet certain requirements.

reporting, etc., as well as not being classified a "key employee" and a few other things.

[Occulus]

45. FMLA is automatic for this if the employee has accrued 1250 hours in the past year.

IF she is working for an employer covered by FMLA. Under that law, the one-day absence is covered because it is directly related to a serious medical condition for which treatment will be ongoing. This includes, but is not limited to, individual-day absences for testing and treatment.

The OP will have to request an absence for an FMLA-covered medical condition and get the FMLA form from her employer. The employer will allow her to miss work for this and any related medical procedures and/or treatments; this first absence will be retroactively applied to the twelve weeks' (I think that's what it is) total covered leave under FMLA.

Simply mentioning that she has an FMLA-covered condition and will get her doctor to fill out the appropriate paperwork when it is provided to her is enough to cover her, employment-wise.

Breast cancer is an FMLA-covered condition.

[REP]

61. Actually, it does work for this, since its a serious medical condition

[Contrary1]

6. Have you told him that you have a doctor appointment?

Or just that you want the day off?

When I was diagnosed with breast cancer, my then boss bent over backwards to accomodate me.

On edit: If I can be of any help to you, please feel free to pm me. I could maybe translate some of the medical lingo for you, or answer some of your questions. Or, just to let you know there is life after cancer. :pals:

[HipChick]

10. When I tell him I need a sick day off, he doesn't believe me...because he claims he never gets sick,

and neither should anyone else...he's a piece of work..

[elehhhhna]

12. see # 9, also, how long have you been there? Fulll time?

[HipChick]

14. 1yr fulltime....

[elehhhhna]

21. as if when? this is important.

[Occulus]

52. Seconded- the OP needs at least 1250 hours in the previous year

and her employer needs to be covered by the law (number of employees, and a few other things). I believe that's "calendar year", as in, prior to the date of filing for FMLA.

[ourbluenation]

25. what he believes or doesn't believe is none of his business. You earned the sick time

so it's yours to use when you are sick.

[uppityperson]

32. Place I worked @ "discouraged" us from taking sick days off. More than

2, you needed a doctor's note to return to work. If you took sick day off more than twice in 3 months, or more than (some amount, can't remember) in 6 months, you could be put on probation or fired. Yup, encouraging health care workers to come in sick and take care of sick people, good long term strategy there.

Yes, in WA, this is legal.

[ourbluenation]

41. That's perfectly legal. I ask my employees for doctors note, per our policies,

if they are out for more than a certain timeframe. She is talking about one day here.

[uppityperson]

44. And if we took sick days more than twice, we could be fired.

Even if it was, say, 1 day sick in Jan due to a head cold, back to work and oops my asthma kicked in putting me in the hospital overnight and home for a couple more days. Then comes influenza in March and if I called in sick, I could be fired.

Even though we earned the days, we could not take them.

I know the OP is talking 1 day for doc visit, just subthreading on "if you earned them, you can take them".

[ourbluenation]

16. what state are you in?

[ourbluenation]

20. If you have sick days call in sick. If you don't have sick days, take vacation time.

he cannot stop you from going to your appointment under any circumstances. Sounds like to me you want to go take care of your medical issues without having to explain what the issue is about. Just tell him you have a doctors appointment. He wouldn't dare ask you what for. If he does, tell him it's none of his business.

[uppityperson]

22. What state are you in? Different states have different laws.

[HipChick]

24. I am in tears about this, and cannot stop crying..last thing I need is a boss trying to act like the

jerk of the decade...

[ourbluenation]

27. oh honey...((((hugs))))...

don't think about him. He can't fire you. He cannot even write you up. Who cares what he thinks. If you gives you any hassle send him something in writing to stop harassing you for using sick days you have earned and cc his supervisor. Push back and he will likely stop.

Then you have to not worry about this and focus on your mental and physical health.

:hug:

[quinnox]

29. Maybe call a family member or friend

It sounds like you are in a stressful situation, but don't give this boss too much power over you or let your fear overtake you.

You have control of your own life and this boss, ultimately, has no power over you.

[elehhhhna]

40. I'm sorry I'm slamming you w/ tech questions --

you must be freaking out -- the mind goes everywhere when you get news like this -- thankk god it's early and you can defeat it.

The boss has no earthly idea what's going on with you and is just a selfish ass. And we all hate do aadmit it but we DO care what the boss thinks. I can't imagine having a "tough skin" on this particular issue.

Can you consider emailing him a vague message indicating that you have a serious and treatable medical emergency? This spares you and him any confrontation, and covers your butt somewhat for FMLA.

[Occulus]

55. All she needs to do is request the FMLA forms from HR.

This assumes that her employer is covered by the FMLA. If it is, then she can smile at her boss, say "I have a condition covered by the Family and Medical Leave Act", and he doesn't need to know anything more.

It sounds like this guy needs to be brought up short, and FMLA is the way to do it. Filing the proper paperwork in a timely fashion is an affirmative defense against termination in the eyes of an administrative law judge. I've seen it happen to some of my co-workers, who were themselves forcibly reinstated (as in, "you are ordered to rehire this person") after getting messed with while suffering from an approved FMLA condition. At least one was awarded back pay in the amount of more than $30,000.

I'm a postal employee, and I am here to tell you that postal managers hate the FMLA. They see it as a "blank check" for injured workers. This jerk sounds exactly the same.

Well, DUH. A blank check is exactly what it is (and rightly so), for up to twelve weeks of leave. They really, really hate that.... and there's nothing they can do about it.

[rox63]

26. Tell him it's for a "woman problem", and see if he asks any more questions

That usually stops men in their tracks.

[ourbluenation]

28. LOVE IT!

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

31. That is a good idea or make up something gross if he's sqeamish.

Even better tell him it's something possibly quite contagious like a skin abcess that turned out to be MRSA, that should worry him sufficiently.

[karynnj]

35. This is a good idea - and completely accurate

[Contrary1]

36. Preface that with

"Well, I didn't really want to tell you, because I know you would feel obligated to send flowers or buy something nice for me, but..."

Then watch him run.

[HipChick]

66. ok..that actually put a smile on my face..

[ehrnst]

69. Or, just look around and quietly ask him if he's familiar with the term "feminine itch"

Seriously, get your FMLA paperwork from HR now.

[Brickbat]

46. A female co-worker of mine was asked by our female manager why she was taking a personal day.

My co-worker kept saying, "Well, it's personal."

The manager kept saying, "Are you doing something fun? Shopping? Personal health day? Going hiking? What?"

Co-worker finally says, "I'm getting an abortion."

Which was true. Personal day means personal day!

[spanone]

33. get well quick!

:grouphug:

[still_one]

38. First stop stressing yourself. Just say you need to take the day off for personal business

That should be the end of it. If he gives you problem, and you don't want to tell him you are going to the Doctor, then just insist it is personal.

If you are in California you should not have this problem

Most important thing, TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF FIRST

[HipChick]

60. I'm at my wits end...he has set up a big HR action now..

I handed in my resignation this week, what more than he want from me...so in the meeting, I will just come up and say it I have nothing to be ashamed of, but I will certainly make sure he gets shamed

[Mopar151]

63. You are working out a notice

And he's still giving you this crap? Human sewage, we're talking here - as in personal harassment. Do you have another job lined up? If you do, go a little ballistic on the harassment isue. Is HR decent, or part of the goon squad?

[HipChick]

65. HR is part of the goon squad...

but today I'm calling him out...

[Mopar151]

67. Sorry to hear about HR

Happens too often. And go get 'em! Shut that shitheel down - It's the 1st step to getting healthy again. Not all harassment is sexual - but I would surmise that a man preventing a woman from getting medical care certainly borders on it.

[Warren Stupidity]

64. You do not have to disclose your medical condition

they cannot ask for it, and if you have sick days call in sick and stop worrying about it. You have to focus on your health and not this bullshit.

[crazyjoe]

75. Oh come on...........

[Bluebear]

48. Truly, all the best to you.

I'm sorry you have to worry about job issues on top of the spectre of cancer. Rooting for your complete recovery!

[elehhhhna]

53. PSA for employed DUers:

You are not in a protected employee class re: fmla unless and until you INFORM your employer about the situation. Even then, you must meet certain consitions.

Thank you.

[HipChick]

68. Gawd..what a jerk....if I'm out on fri, he wants me to work the weekend

what a fucktard!

[blueamy66]

70. Did you discuss FMLA with the HR dept???

Just curious.

[hayu_lol]

72. HipChick...first, take care of yourself.

You might want to contact a local women's group(breast cancer etc)for help/info. Your life could be on the line here...make the appointment no matter what.

You might want to consult an attorney who specializes in this type of case. A quick letter might solve your problem and give you back up.

For All: At the post office, there is a new stamp. Costs .55 cents each. Eleven cents of the price goes to breast cancer research. Good way to fund this research.

Again HipChick, time is of the essence...get yourself to the doc.

[crazyjoe]

71. Tell him you have a doctors appt, take vaca day if you have to. What is the problem?

[Gin]

73. how much notice did you give? will it matter for the illness if you

work the notice and don't take the time off until you are done with that job?

I know you are panicked about the diagnosis but this stress is making it worse for you...(IMO)

Work it off if you can and give him the finger on the way out.

Good luck!